258 weapon/spell damage passives

Skander

These seem a little bit too much, not just for the damage but they effect healing as well. If you look at altmers Now they pratically are getting a lot of more healing. In the orc traits it's somewhat balanced for the other passives.

SaintSubwayy

those 258 SD / WD wont really be noticable for healing IMO.

DMG wise a flat ammount is definetly a nerf over percentige base modifiers.

Rex-Umbra

Dark Elf can make some beastly hybrids

themaddaedra

Shush! People still think it's a nerf lmao.

mairwen85

The dmg stat is compensation for lost max resource factored with the % dmg modifiers converted to flat value; this is actually a nicely balanced means to provide a near equivalent damage output.

This is why Dunmer is on the loosing end of the stick. They lose out on recovery passives (none), and resource passives, but receive this same dmg stat to prop up despite having also lost their 7% bonus fire damage (the previous only gain for sacrificing recovery). This value should be increased to 325-340 to compensate for that.

SaintSubwayy

mairwen85 wrote: »

The dmg stat is compensation for lost max resource. If you factor in the % modifiers conversion to flat values, this is actually a nicely balanced means to provide a near equivalent damage output.

This is why Dunmer is on the loosing end of the stick. They lose out on recovery passives (none), and resource passives, but receive this same dmg stat to prop up despite having also lost their 7% bonus fire damage (the previous only gain for sacrificing recovery). This value should at be increased to 325-340 to compensate for that.

Double dip the 258 and we're talking
Compared to Altmer we also loose 750 magicka, which are equal to ~75 SD

mairwen85

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

The dmg stat is compensation for lost max resource. If you factor in the % modifiers conversion to flat values, this is actually a nicely balanced means to provide a near equivalent damage output.

This is why Dunmer is on the loosing end of the stick. They lose out on recovery passives (none), and resource passives, but receive this same dmg stat to prop up despite having also lost their 7% bonus fire damage (the previous only gain for sacrificing recovery). This value should at be increased to 325-340 to compensate for that.

Double dip the 258 and we're talking
Compared to Altmer we also loose 750 magicka, which are equal to ~75 SD

I said something similar here.

mocap

mairwen85 wrote: »

This value should be increased to 325-340 to compensate for that.

Major+minor sorcery = 335. Done.

Skander

It's not neglectavle. It's a buff that stacks with other buffs. And 7% was only flame damage

TheDarkoil

I main an Altmer with spell damage in mind. With the Expert mage passive at 8% and always having major sorcery up that becomes like 330, my spell damage at the moment is 3500ish so it's roughly a 10% increase, I'll take that over the 4% elemental damage any day.

mairwen85

Skander wrote: »

It's not neglectavle. It's a buff that stacks with other buffs. And 7% was only flame damage

Indeed, however, fire damage currently is 2-3% over other elemental damage. This is the only edge mag Dunmer has over Altmer as they have the same % modifier for other elemental damage sources. If both races get the same base spell damage, but Altmer has a decidedly greater resource pool, plus more sustain, Dunmer looses out massively. Adequate compensation is greater burst = higher base dmg stat equivalent to resource difference. Breton's compensation is higher resistances, cost effectiveness, and sustain.

SaintSubwayy

Skander wrote: »

It's not neglectavle. It's a buff that stacks with other buffs. And 7% was only flame damage

7% firedmg (atleast on DK) outclasses 258 SD by a lot.
when more than 95% of your dmg dealt is the same type (in this case fire) than the 7% become way better.

Lets say I pull 50k on a dummy, not I remove the 7%, I end up with 46,5k ...thats 3.5k DPS loss
And those 258 SD will not add up to deal those 3.5k or more, they just wont.

Furthermore we are loosing max Magicka. now DK geets 9% Max Magicka overall from passives. Average DK has about 38K now, so thats arround 3.4k max Magicka, after the nerf we only will get 1250 of those 3400 back (ignoring multipliers like Undauted for that)

Thats a loss of 2.2k which is equal of 220 SD...

So those 258 SD are actually more like 40 SD more than before...I hope u understand now.

Yes 40 SD is more than before, thats a buff, however its a Nerf to sustain / resource pool, and to dmg dealt.

Malamar1229

Depends. Sorc had dmg sources from curse and frags which benefit from the 258 increase over the percentage base that was just for the other elemental dmg.

SaintSubwayy

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Depends. Sorc had dmg sources from curse and frags which benefit from the 258 increase over the percentage base that was just for the other elemental dmg.

yes ofc, NB and templar aswell.

But they can run Altmer, and proftig from the nice sustain altmer provides, while getting more magicka than dunmer does.
The Race-gap on sorc, nb and templar is already small now, so Alt or Dunmer doent really matter now.

After the Patch Altmer is definetly way stronger than Dunmer.
and on DK Dunmer is actually way stronger thant altmers (bigger race-gap )

BUt still your LA and Blockade are right up there in the DPS parses, so they will be lower than now.

evoniee

damage is scaling so good with healing

kathandira

Please take this conversation to https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21#latest

We don't need the entire General Sub Forum to be filled with this topic.

SaintSubwayy

kathandira wrote: »

Please take this conversation to https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21#latest

We don't need the entire General Sub Forum to be filled with this topic.

why should we, this is a specific topic here..it would just go under in 1 huge all in one discussion.

TheDarkoil

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

It's not neglectavle. It's a buff that stacks with other buffs. And 7% was only flame damage

7% firedmg (atleast on DK) outclasses 258 SD by a lot.
when more than 95% of your dmg dealt is the same type (in this case fire) than the 7% become way better.

Lets say I pull 50k on a dummy, not I remove the 7%, I end up with 46,5k ...thats 3.5k DPS loss
And those 258 SD will not add up to deal those 3.5k or more, they just wont.

Furthermore we are loosing max Magicka. now DK geets 9% Max Magicka overall from passives. Average DK has about 38K now, so thats arround 3.4k max Magicka, after the nerf we only will get 1250 of those 3400 back (ignoring multipliers like Undauted for that)

Thats a loss of 2.2k which is equal of 220 SD...

So those 258 SD are actually more like 40 SD more than before...I hope u understand now.

Yes 40 SD is more than before, thats a buff, however its a Nerf to sustain / resource pool, and to dmg dealt.

I thought magicka to spell damage ratio was 10.5 =1

SaintSubwayy

TheDarkoil wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

It's not neglectavle. It's a buff that stacks with other buffs. And 7% was only flame damage

7% firedmg (atleast on DK) outclasses 258 SD by a lot.
when more than 95% of your dmg dealt is the same type (in this case fire) than the 7% become way better.

Lets say I pull 50k on a dummy, not I remove the 7%, I end up with 46,5k ...thats 3.5k DPS loss
And those 258 SD will not add up to deal those 3.5k or more, they just wont.

Furthermore we are loosing max Magicka. now DK geets 9% Max Magicka overall from passives. Average DK has about 38K now, so thats arround 3.4k max Magicka, after the nerf we only will get 1250 of those 3400 back (ignoring multipliers like Undauted for that)

Thats a loss of 2.2k which is equal of 220 SD...

So those 258 SD are actually more like 40 SD more than before...I hope u understand now.

Yes 40 SD is more than before, thats a buff, however its a Nerf to sustain / resource pool, and to dmg dealt.

I thought magicka to spell damage ratio was 10.5 =1

we gona argue over 5-10 SD here now?^^

I rounded the magickanumbers already quite hard, so its jsut a example to illustrate, that the 258SD on dunmer / altmer, dont make that bis of a difference, since we are loosing a ton of resources (SD if you so will).

carlos424

Skills dealing magic damage get a buff due to 258 spell damage increase, and there was no previous magic damage buff (many Templar skills, elemental weapon, etc.).

SaintSubwayy

carlos424 wrote: »

Skills dealing magic damage get a buff due to 258 spell damage increase, and there was no previous magic damage buff (many Templar skills, elemental weapon, etc.).

yes, and if they scale with magicka aswell, the buff aint 258 SD, because you will loose arround 1.5-3.5k magicka depending on your max magicka you have now.

Skander

With 258 spell damage a breath of life heals from 11k to 13k
It's huge

kojou

For Dunmer I think it should be a higher Spell Damage figure as well. I will have to hold my nose as I change my DK to Altmer with it as it is now.

Maybe they could add .5 of the spell damage as fire damage so we at least keep the Dunmer flame affinity?

TheDarkoil

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

TheDarkoil wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

It's not neglectavle. It's a buff that stacks with other buffs. And 7% was only flame damage

7% firedmg (atleast on DK) outclasses 258 SD by a lot.
when more than 95% of your dmg dealt is the same type (in this case fire) than the 7% become way better.

Lets say I pull 50k on a dummy, not I remove the 7%, I end up with 46,5k ...thats 3.5k DPS loss
And those 258 SD will not add up to deal those 3.5k or more, they just wont.

Furthermore we are loosing max Magicka. now DK geets 9% Max Magicka overall from passives. Average DK has about 38K now, so thats arround 3.4k max Magicka, after the nerf we only will get 1250 of those 3400 back (ignoring multipliers like Undauted for that)

Thats a loss of 2.2k which is equal of 220 SD...

So those 258 SD are actually more like 40 SD more than before...I hope u understand now.

Yes 40 SD is more than before, thats a buff, however its a Nerf to sustain / resource pool, and to dmg dealt.

I thought magicka to spell damage ratio was 10.5 =1

we gona argue over 5-10 SD here now?^^

I rounded the magickanumbers already quite hard, so its jsut a example to illustrate, that the 258SD on dunmer / altmer, dont make that bis of a difference, since we are loosing a ton of resources (SD if you so will).

No, just wondered whether it had changed at some point without me knowing.

SaintSubwayy

kojou wrote: »

For Dunmer I think it should be a higher Spell Damage figure as well. I will have to hold my nose as I change my DK to Altmer with it as it is now.

Maybe they could add .5 of the spell damage as fire damage so we at least keep the Dunmer flame affinity?

personally I hope to get the balance restored by buffs to the DK as a Class.

The Dunmer Race with stamina as it sits now, will be outclassed by Altmer, even if Dunmer gets some extra SD fowards fire.
Altmer has more flat magicka, better sustain and (Atm) same DMG.

Buffing certain DK passives could balance this, without foring DK's to pick the Dunmer, and have to get the worse Sustain.

carlos424

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

Skills dealing magic damage get a buff due to 258 spell damage increase, and there was no previous magic damage buff (many Templar skills, elemental weapon, etc.).

yes, and if they scale with magicka aswell, the buff aint 258 SD, because you will loose arround 1.5-3.5k magicka depending on your max magicka you have now.

Yes, this is an over all nerf to damage and sustain, especially with 1.5-2k magicka decrease (which i think is about what most builds will lose, except maybe pet builds with higher magicka base). But some builds that use magicka damage (looking at Templars) might stay about the same with slight buff (or at least not a loss) to magic damage, while all other elemental damage decreases due to loss of max magicka.

FrancisCrawford

kathandira wrote: »

Please take this conversation to https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21#latest

We don't need the entire General Sub Forum to be filled with this topic.

Yes, we do. This is a massive change to builds.