So what races you think will be meta now?

Bigevilpeter

My thoughts:

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them

Stam DD: Was only redguards now I think Orcs, Khajits and Redguards work, Redguards now completely outclass Bosmer.

Tank: Was only Argonian, now Argonian and Nord

Healer: Was Argonian and Altmer or Breton and will still be the same.

Outclassed races : Dunmer, Bosmer, Imperial.

Edit: I also just realized that Magicka DD Khajits will be really good as well, possibly even tying with altmer since 8% crit chance> 258 spell damage.

Carbonised

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them.

From 2 race choices for mag specs to 1 obvious choice outclassing any other race. Im sure glad their goal of more diversity proved successful!

/s /s /s

Turelus

Tank: Dunmer
Healer :Dunmer
Mag DD: Dunmer
Stam DD: Dunmer

Dunmer BiS always.

xaraan

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

My thoughts:

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them

Stam DD: Was only redguards now I think Orcs, Khajits and Redguards work, Redguards now completely outclass Bosmer.

Tank: Was only Argonian, now Argonian and Nord

Healer: Was Argonian and Altmer or Breton and will still be the same.

Outclassed races : Dunmer, Bosmer, Imperial.

I wouldn't overlook Imperial for tanking.

Not seeing Argonian being far above anything now for tanking and waaaaay at the bottom for any DPS use.

Bigevilpeter

xaraan wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

My thoughts:

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them

Stam DD: Was only redguards now I think Orcs, Khajits and Redguards work, Redguards now completely outclass Bosmer.

Tank: Was only Argonian, now Argonian and Nord

Healer: Was Argonian and Altmer or Breton and will still be the same.

Outclassed races : Dunmer, Bosmer, Imperial.

I wouldn't overlook Imperial for tanking.

Not seeing Argonian being far above anything now for tanking and waaaaay at the bottom for any DPS use.

Argonians still work exactly the same for tanking, just a slight reduction to their sustain numbers, they will still have better sustain than other tanking races.

Imperials are fine, but Id rather take better resource sustain or better ulti generation over 5% block or bash cost reduction

CipherNine

Carbonised wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them.

From 2 race choices for mag specs to 1 obvious choice outclassing any other race. Im sure glad their goal of more diversity proved successful!

/s /s /s

Like that was there actual goal anyway. Their real goal is just an obvious cash grab, which is what these racial changes are.
If they actually cared about creating diversity with races they would just remove racial passives completely. It's really about digging into the wallets of the players as much as they can.

PIEGOD

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

My thoughts:

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them

Stam DD: Was only redguards now I think Orcs, Khajits and Redguards work, Redguards now completely outclass Bosmer.

Tank: Was only Argonian, now Argonian and Nord

Healer: Was Argonian and Altmer or Breton and will still be the same.

Outclassed races : Dunmer, Bosmer, Imperial.

I wouldn't overlook Imperial for tanking.

Not seeing Argonian being far above anything now for tanking and waaaaay at the bottom for any DPS use.

Argonians still work exactly the same for tanking, just a slight reduction to their sustain numbers, they will still have better sustain than other tanking races.

Imperials are fine, but Id rather take better resource sustain or better ulti generation over 5% block or bash cost reduction

MAKE ARGONIANS GREAT AGAIN

HappyLittleTree

Argonians

WuffyCerulei

Literally anything that people want it to be.

mairwen85

Carbonised wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them.

From 2 race choices for mag specs to 1 obvious choice outclassing any other race. Im sure glad their goal of more diversity proved successful!

/s /s /s

Bretons are now (and still will be) a good choice for mag. Hardy with good sustain (magicka efficiency) has always been their major benefits, but they're actually closer to Altmer if the racial changes goes through, lower starting spell damage but much higher sustain. They currently make good magplars and decent magsorcs -- after U21, they'll be better sorcs.

Bigevilpeter

mairwen85 wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them.

From 2 race choices for mag specs to 1 obvious choice outclassing any other race. Im sure glad their goal of more diversity proved successful!

/s /s /s

Bretons are now (and still will be) a good choice for mag. Hardy with good sustain (magicka efficiency) has always been their major benefits, but they're actually closer to Altmer if the racial changes goes through, lower starting spell damage but much higher sustain. They currently make good magplars and decent magsorcs -- after U21, they'll be better sorcs.

Altemers still have a Magicka version of adrenline rush, gonnq provide some good sustain plus much more damage, ofc bretons have better sustain but altmers will still outclass them as magicka DDs

MartiniDaniels

I think nord tank will be BiS now, cause you not only receive extra 0.5 ulti generation but also have extra 4k resistance, which means you can easily rich cap with bloodspawn and have even more ulti. Horn uptime will be far better then argonian.

f047ys3v3n

Mag DD, Altmer though it was nerfed, Dunmer was nerfed more. Mageblades trying more sustain for their proc might try Breton but sustain is always so group dependent it is hard to build tword any specific target.

Stam DD, Redgaurd which was inexplicably buffed.

Heals, Argonian or Breton, both will be good depending on how much of a pot head you are.

Tanks, Nord

PVP roll dodge LOS build so OP that it will be nerfed next patch, Bosmer

gepe87

The same. Altmer, Redguard and Argonian. Too much talk and nerfed other options we had.

Vapirko

Honestly the ONLY people who need to really worry about truely BiS races are endgame progression PvE trials guilds, everyone else is fine. Look if you wanna play a magic race as a stamina based DD the yes you are gimping yourself by ZOS is never going to homogenize race that much. And for PvP it is pretty open ended as you can make a unique build if you want, there’s lots of options out there and people come up with surprising stuff all the time. So basically don’t worry about it, life goes on, and this is probably the least radical balance pass we have seen in this game to date. A lot of people have been asking for less upheaval when it comes to changes and this is pretty mindful of that. There will ALWAYS be one race that parses a few hundred more DPS, *** live with it. It’s not going to change. No one NEEDS a race change and the BiS races are likely to stay about the same with perhaps a bit of room for variation.

idk

Turelus wrote: »

Tank: Dunmer
Healer :Dunmer
Mag DD: Dunmer
Stam DD: Dunmer

Dunmer BiS always.

LOL

But seriously, what Gil posted is very much subject to change. It is an exercise in futility to discuss what might be meta, not to mention most would base their post on emotions.

Once we have the PTS up players will be testing and getting actual numbers to provide real feedback to Zos. Oddly, this is something Gil would have been doing but now he is on the other side of the picture.

mairwen85

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them.

From 2 race choices for mag specs to 1 obvious choice outclassing any other race. Im sure glad their goal of more diversity proved successful!

/s /s /s

Bretons are now (and still will be) a good choice for mag. Hardy with good sustain (magicka efficiency) has always been their major benefits, but they're actually closer to Altmer if the racial changes goes through, lower starting spell damage but much higher sustain. They currently make good magplars and decent magsorcs -- after U21, they'll be better sorcs.

Altemers still have a Magicka version of adrenline rush, gonnq provide some good sustain plus much more damage, ofc bretons have better sustain but altmers will still outclass them as magicka DDs

Of course... but I was responding to the assertion that we've gone from 2 to 1 for mag spec, the reality being that we've gone from 3 to 2.

If we're talking specifically magicka dps, then yes, there is one race to rule them all after U21 with these changes.

Tasear

I think we see more options for players overall.

I can pick bosmer/orc for speed .. actually buff bosmer

Nord has ultimate

Breton sustain and tanky self

Lizards with potions

Altmer still a fair option

*Talking about healers

Banana

Nord

Nervani

Turelus wrote: »

Tank: Bosmer
Healer :Bosmer
Mag DD: Bosmer
Stam DD: Bosmer

Bosmer BiS always.

Fixed that for ya

ErMurazor

Dunmer stamblade op

xaraan

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

My thoughts:

Magicka DD: was Altmer and Dunmer now gonna be Just Altmer, not because dunmers are bad but because Altmer completely outclass them

Stam DD: Was only redguards now I think Orcs, Khajits and Redguards work, Redguards now completely outclass Bosmer.

Tank: Was only Argonian, now Argonian and Nord

Healer: Was Argonian and Altmer or Breton and will still be the same.

Outclassed races : Dunmer, Bosmer, Imperial.

I wouldn't overlook Imperial for tanking.

Not seeing Argonian being far above anything now for tanking and waaaaay at the bottom for any DPS use.

Argonians still work exactly the same for tanking, just a slight reduction to their sustain numbers, they will still have better sustain than other tanking races.

Imperials are fine, but Id rather take better resource sustain or better ulti generation over 5% block or bash cost reduction

Argonians are just not ruined for tanking, but they are definitely not the go-to. Which is fine, I was expecting some nerfs, but hoped to see something DPS wise offered up to help their builds for DD roles, even if it wasn't as strong as what others get. Tell a DK tank that gets stats back when they cast an ultimate that they won't have better resource sustain now.

But it's nowhere near as useful as ulti gain for taking damage and almost 4k resists. I mean, 4% healing done and no bonus to healing taken - that's a huge nerf to a tank build. The bonus health is meh (but all races got huge nerfs to max stat bonuses) They are literally only a build focused around the fact they get extra resources when they drink a potion.

I pretty much see people making build vids now just saying "Nord best, then Argonian or Imperial are ok" instead of before when they said "argonian best, Imperial ok, Nord not horrible". THAT isn't how you balance classes - that's just moving the imbalance around.

And as you can see, I'm not just about Argonians being meta at tanking, I was actually hoping them to just be a little more useful elsewhere for the nerfs I expected for their support roles.

RaptorRodeoGod

Yeah I was hoping Argoinians would get something to help DDs, but no luck

Bigevilpeter

All races are still viable as long as you dont pick a Magicka race for a stamina role, yeah some will be better than others, these changes just shifted the meta and made things more fresh, but I think we are still in the same spot on having some races being meta and the others inferior

Mayrael

Cash Grab!

Altmer passive is not even close to adrenaline rush 575/6=96/s while Redguard 950/5=190/s, while with around 2,2k recovery currently my Altmer gets almost 200 mag recovery from its passives, it's a nerf especially for PvP.

Bigevilpeter

Mayrael wrote: »

Cash Grab!

Altmer passive is not even close to adrenaline rush 575/6=96/s while Redguard 950/5=190/s, while with around 2,2k recovery currently my Altmer gets almost 200 mag recovery from its passives, it's a nerf especially for PvP.

96/s is almost 200 magickq recovery which is almost the same for you case and mucj better for pve

Aluneth

You'll notice something most lists have in common, the lack of Imperial. The only thing they had going for them was the resources, and with the nerf to that, they have nothing. Imperials might not have been the BEST at something before, but they could be found on second or third place. Now you'll have a hard time finding them even in third place.

Mag DPS : Useless
Stam DPS : Khajiit, Redguard and Orc are better
Healer: Useless
Tank: Argonian and Nord are both better

Bigevilpeter

Aluneth wrote: »

You'll notice something most lists have in common, the lack of Imperial. The only thing they had going for them was the resources, and with the nerf to that, they have nothing. Imperials might not have been the BEST at something before, but they could be found on second or third place. Now you'll have a hard time finding them even in third place.

Mag DPS : Useless
Stam DPS : Khajiit, Redguard and Orc are better
Healer: Useless
Tank: Argonian and Nord are both better

They are actually 3rd for tanking

Aluneth

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Aluneth wrote: »

You'll notice something most lists have in common, the lack of Imperial. The only thing they had going for them was the resources, and with the nerf to that, they have nothing. Imperials might not have been the BEST at something before, but they could be found on second or third place. Now you'll have a hard time finding them even in third place.

Mag DPS : Useless
Stam DPS : Khajiit, Redguard and Orc are better
Healer: Useless
Tank: Argonian and Nord are both better

They are actually 3rd for tanking

Which is what I pointed out above. When the best placing you get is THIRD in TANKING, which is supposed to be your races strong suit, then something is wrong.

Bigevilpeter

Aluneth wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Aluneth wrote: »

You'll notice something most lists have in common, the lack of Imperial. The only thing they had going for them was the resources, and with the nerf to that, they have nothing. Imperials might not have been the BEST at something before, but they could be found on second or third place. Now you'll have a hard time finding them even in third place.

Mag DPS : Useless
Stam DPS : Khajiit, Redguard and Orc are better
Healer: Useless
Tank: Argonian and Nord are both better

They are actually 3rd for tanking

Which is what I pointed out above. When the best placing you get is THIRD in TANKING, which is supposed to be your races strong suit, then something is wrong.

TBH I already kinda forgot that imperials exist and now they are even more forgettable, not bad but yeah as you as you said no place where they shine, they still have the highest max stats with 2k health and stamina

The_Saint

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Mag DD, Altmer though it was nerfed, Dunmer was nerfed more. Mageblades trying more sustain for their proc might try Breton but sustain is always so group dependent it is hard to build tword any specific target.

Dont forget Khajiit for mageblades;-)
750 max magicka, 75 reg and 8% more crit

Sounds crazy but... ;-)