NBs in high end BGs and what it means

pzschrek

Iskiab wrote: »

P.S. Another thing I’ve figured out, as soon as you can get away from your team... Ignore group chat for the most part, those who whine most are usually the worst players.

I don’t want anyone like this on my team. Ever.

Sounds like you have an awful lot to “ignore” in group chat, son. And based on your posts, with very good reason.

Aurielle

pzschrek wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

P.S. Another thing I’ve figured out, as soon as you can get away from your team... Ignore group chat for the most part, those who whine most are usually the worst players.

I don’t want anyone like this on my team. Ever.

Sounds like you have an awful lot to “ignore” in group chat, son. And based on your posts, with very good reason.

Yup. I kill scrubs who think they’re better off “alone” all the time, and endure the frustration of having them on my team every so often. It’s to the point now where I make a mental note of every yolo solo NB who screws the team over, and slot detection potions to ruin their days when I come across them on opposing teams.

CatchMeTrolling

pzschrek wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

P.S. Another thing I’ve figured out, as soon as you can get away from your team... Ignore group chat for the most part, those who whine most are usually the worst players.

I don’t want anyone like this on my team. Ever.

Sounds like you have an awful lot to “ignore” in group chat, son. And based on your posts, with very good reason.

I have to agree. It’s usually the ones that don’t listen to chat that’s the worse. Remember having 3 stam nbs just sitting in stealth literally, waiting to gank the whole game. I say “what are you guys doing?” And one says “ relax, we know what we are doing “ 🙃

Aurielle

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

P.S. Another thing I’ve figured out, as soon as you can get away from your team... Ignore group chat for the most part, those who whine most are usually the worst players.

I don’t want anyone like this on my team. Ever.

Sounds like you have an awful lot to “ignore” in group chat, son. And based on your posts, with very good reason.

I have to agree. It’s usually the ones that don’t listen to chat that’s the worse. Remember having 3 stam nbs just sitting in stealth literally, waiting to gank the whole game. I say “what are you guys doing?” And one says “ relax, we know what we are doing “ 🙃

Yeah. Like, it’s one thing if you’ve got a team of four stealthed out NBs. If you’re the lone non-stealthed NB on a team, though? Congrats, you’re bait! Nightblades have great group utility in BGs if built appropriately. If you want to solo gank, go to Cyrodiil; you wouldn’t stealth out and ignore your team in a Cyrodiil group (any good Crown would kick you the moment he/she realizes you’re not working with the group), so why the heck do you guys feel you can get away with it in BGs where you’re FORCED to group?

CatchMeTrolling

Aurielle wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

P.S. Another thing I’ve figured out, as soon as you can get away from your team... Ignore group chat for the most part, those who whine most are usually the worst players.

I don’t want anyone like this on my team. Ever.

Sounds like you have an awful lot to “ignore” in group chat, son. And based on your posts, with very good reason.

I have to agree. It’s usually the ones that don’t listen to chat that’s the worse. Remember having 3 stam nbs just sitting in stealth literally, waiting to gank the whole game. I say “what are you guys doing?” And one says “ relax, we know what we are doing “ 🙃

Yeah. Like, it’s one thing if you’ve got a team of four stealthed out NBs. If you’re the lone non-stealthed NB on a team, though? Congrats, you’re bait! Nightblades have great group utility in BGs if built appropriately. If you want to solo gank, go to Cyrodiil; you wouldn’t stealth out and ignore your team in a Cyrodiil group (any good Crown would kick you the moment he/she realizes you’re not working with the group), so why the heck do you guys feel you can get away with it in BGs where you’re FORCED to group?

I decided to go sit in stealth by our spawn , after it became too annoying. Wasn’t good gankers, waited until enemies was at like 30 percent while I’m fighting multiple teams. Sad part is we would’ve won if they actually listened because the game was only a few kill difference. At that point I didn’t care about winning like that.

Datthaw

Aurielle wrote: »

NBs are viable in high MMR BGs if they eschew the ganker archetype. The problem with most NBs is that they’re built as glass cannons and stealth away at the first hint of trouble. NBs who do not use stealth (or use it offensively — i.e. specifically to land critical hits) and stick with the team are absolutely viable.

I’ve been experimenting with a no-cloak magNB recently and have been having considerable success. Funnily enough, people do not seem to realize that some NBs don’t use stealth, and waste precious resources trying to “reveal” me. I’m using a few NB skill morphs that are seldom used and it’s confusing the people I regularly play against. This is why being able to build for yourself and not copypasta some YT streamer is so important.

Try playing magnb without cloak atm and let me know how it goes. StamNB can go heavy bleeds and still dish damage, magnb on the other hand has been nerfed into only cloak

CatchMeTrolling

Datthaw wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

NBs are viable in high MMR BGs if they eschew the ganker archetype. The problem with most NBs is that they’re built as glass cannons and stealth away at the first hint of trouble. NBs who do not use stealth (or use it offensively — i.e. specifically to land critical hits) and stick with the team are absolutely viable.

I’ve been experimenting with a no-cloak magNB recently and have been having considerable success. Funnily enough, people do not seem to realize that some NBs don’t use stealth, and waste precious resources trying to “reveal” me. I’m using a few NB skill morphs that are seldom used and it’s confusing the people I regularly play against. This is why being able to build for yourself and not copypasta some YT streamer is so important.

Try playing magnb without cloak atm and let me know how it goes. StamNB can go heavy bleeds and still dish damage, magnb on the other hand has been nerfed into only cloak

Magnb issues isn’t with cloak. You can kite and use cloak to a minimal and still be successful. The issue with magnb is the lack of a purge, pets and the healing ward nerf.

Besides most people complain about stam nb not magnb.

pzschrek

Aurielle wrote: »

If you’re the lone non-stealthed NB on a team, though? Congrats, you’re bait!

This is what it’s like trying to play AD in cyro.

Aurielle

Datthaw wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

NBs are viable in high MMR BGs if they eschew the ganker archetype. The problem with most NBs is that they’re built as glass cannons and stealth away at the first hint of trouble. NBs who do not use stealth (or use it offensively — i.e. specifically to land critical hits) and stick with the team are absolutely viable.

I’ve been experimenting with a no-cloak magNB recently and have been having considerable success. Funnily enough, people do not seem to realize that some NBs don’t use stealth, and waste precious resources trying to “reveal” me. I’m using a few NB skill morphs that are seldom used and it’s confusing the people I regularly play against. This is why being able to build for yourself and not copypasta some YT streamer is so important.

Try playing magnb without cloak atm and let me know how it goes. StamNB can go heavy bleeds and still dish damage, magnb on the other hand has been nerfed into only cloak

LOL. I play a no-cloak magNB. Goes pretty well, actually, since I’ve specifically built it NOT as a ganker.

Aurielle

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

NBs are viable in high MMR BGs if they eschew the ganker archetype. The problem with most NBs is that they’re built as glass cannons and stealth away at the first hint of trouble. NBs who do not use stealth (or use it offensively — i.e. specifically to land critical hits) and stick with the team are absolutely viable.

I’ve been experimenting with a no-cloak magNB recently and have been having considerable success. Funnily enough, people do not seem to realize that some NBs don’t use stealth, and waste precious resources trying to “reveal” me. I’m using a few NB skill morphs that are seldom used and it’s confusing the people I regularly play against. This is why being able to build for yourself and not copypasta some YT streamer is so important.

Try playing magnb without cloak atm and let me know how it goes. StamNB can go heavy bleeds and still dish damage, magnb on the other hand has been nerfed into only cloak

Magnb issues isn’t with cloak. You can kite and use cloak to a minimal and still be successful. The issue with magnb is the lack of a purge, pets and the healing ward nerf.

Besides most people complain about stam nb not magnb.

What if I told you that Dark Shade is a great pet, and that Dark Cloak is a reasonable replacement for Healing Ward when paired with Troll King?

Iskiab

The reason so many complain is because they’re losing unless their team mates play a certain play style, the reason people keep playing NBs with cloak is because it works if done well.

It should be obvious where the problem is but that won’t stop people from complaining. Basicly it’s people who are lucky to win complaining to those who have decent specs and are used to winning. Why listen to people who don’t play well and let them dominate team tactics?

The issue is a bunch of Stam melee who wear medium with little survivability needing their team mates to tank for them to be effective, nothing more.

Priyasekarssk

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Recently I was watching an ESO stream. The streamer stated that NBs aren’t viable in high end BGs and his recommendation to a viewer(who was a NB in the same match as the streamer in a BG) was to play a “real class”.

My question to the community is are NBs viable in high MMR BG matches? Does playing a NB in high MMR BGs hurt ones team? Are other classes better designed for these types of matches? Would choosing a class, like for instance a stam warden bring more to a group in terms of utility and dps than a NB?

He is NB streamer right. He dont want other to play NB. Otherwise he has no one to kill if all or unkillable. He is a liar whoever it is. Go and check battleground stats. How many NBs are there in top 10 and figure it yourself.

Aurielle

Iskiab wrote: »

The reason so many complain is because they’re losing unless their team mates play a certain play style, the reason people keep playing NBs with cloak is because it works if done well.

It should be obvious where the problem is but that won’t stop people from complaining. Basicly it’s people who are lucky to win complaining to those who have decent specs and are used to winning. Why listen to people who don’t play well and let them dominate team tactics?

The issue is a bunch of Stam melee who wear medium with little survivability needing their team mates to tank for them to be effective, nothing more.

No. We complain because we (1-3 players, depending on how many ganker NBs are in the group) get mowed down by a full team of four because our NB “teammates” cloak away and left us outnumbered. I don’t need anyone to “tank” for me, but taking on a full BG team alone in a no CP environment isn’t going to go well unless on a full tank spec.

Go to Cyrodiil if you want to solo gank. BGs are team-based PVP encounters, so if you’re unwilling to play as a team, GTFO and stop ruining matches for the other four classes in this game.

CatchMeTrolling

Aurielle wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

NBs are viable in high MMR BGs if they eschew the ganker archetype. The problem with most NBs is that they’re built as glass cannons and stealth away at the first hint of trouble. NBs who do not use stealth (or use it offensively — i.e. specifically to land critical hits) and stick with the team are absolutely viable.

I’ve been experimenting with a no-cloak magNB recently and have been having considerable success. Funnily enough, people do not seem to realize that some NBs don’t use stealth, and waste precious resources trying to “reveal” me. I’m using a few NB skill morphs that are seldom used and it’s confusing the people I regularly play against. This is why being able to build for yourself and not copypasta some YT streamer is so important.

Try playing magnb without cloak atm and let me know how it goes. StamNB can go heavy bleeds and still dish damage, magnb on the other hand has been nerfed into only cloak

Magnb issues isn’t with cloak. You can kite and use cloak to a minimal and still be successful. The issue with magnb is the lack of a purge, pets and the healing ward nerf.

Besides most people complain about stam nb not magnb.

What if I told you that Dark Shade is a great pet, and that Dark Cloak is a reasonable replacement for Healing Ward when paired with Troll King?

I played without healing ward before the nerf using troll king. The problem is that the nerf pigeonholes the class and it doesn’t erase the fact healing ward shouldn’t have been touched. Keep in mind I played magnb a lot to start the patch off since sweeps/jabs didn’t work.

As for dark cloak it’s not my thing.

Koensol

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

The reason so many complain is because they’re losing unless their team mates play a certain play style, the reason people keep playing NBs with cloak is because it works if done well.

It should be obvious where the problem is but that won’t stop people from complaining. Basicly it’s people who are lucky to win complaining to those who have decent specs and are used to winning. Why listen to people who don’t play well and let them dominate team tactics?

The issue is a bunch of Stam melee who wear medium with little survivability needing their team mates to tank for them to be effective, nothing more.

No. We complain because we (1-3 players, depending on how many ganker NBs are in the group) get mowed down by a full team of four because our NB “teammates” cloak away and left us outnumbered. I don’t need anyone to “tank” for me, but taking on a full BG team alone in a no CP environment isn’t going to go well unless on a full tank spec.

Go to Cyrodiil if you want to solo gank. BGs are team-based PVP encounters, so if you’re unwilling to play as a team, GTFO and stop ruining matches for the other four classes in this game.

This. Sorcs who love to streak out of my healing range also *** me the hell off. Like, mate I'm trying to heal you and you are forcing me to overextend in order to keep your ass alive. As a result I get pressured, the sorc dies anyway and the rest of the team is sent to respawn. I have come to the point where as a healer I will straight up leave the team if this happens. I'd rather wait 15 mins than spend the entire BG getting left behind by solo players. That these people have the audacity to complain to others is even worse.

Neloth

Koensol wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

The reason so many complain is because they’re losing unless their team mates play a certain play style, the reason people keep playing NBs with cloak is because it works if done well.

It should be obvious where the problem is but that won’t stop people from complaining. Basicly it’s people who are lucky to win complaining to those who have decent specs and are used to winning. Why listen to people who don’t play well and let them dominate team tactics?

The issue is a bunch of Stam melee who wear medium with little survivability needing their team mates to tank for them to be effective, nothing more.

No. We complain because we (1-3 players, depending on how many ganker NBs are in the group) get mowed down by a full team of four because our NB “teammates” cloak away and left us outnumbered. I don’t need anyone to “tank” for me, but taking on a full BG team alone in a no CP environment isn’t going to go well unless on a full tank spec.

Go to Cyrodiil if you want to solo gank. BGs are team-based PVP encounters, so if you’re unwilling to play as a team, GTFO and stop ruining matches for the other four classes in this game.

This. Sorcs who love to streak out of my healing range also *** me the hell off. Like, mate I'm trying to heal you and you are forcing me to overextend in order to keep your ass alive. As a result I get pressured, the sorc dies anyway and the rest of the team is sent to respawn. I have come to the point where as a healer I will straight up leave the team if this happens. I'd rather wait 15 mins than spend the entire BG getting left behind by solo players. That these people have the audacity to complain to others is even worse.

If a sorc has to streak away from the fight to avoid pressure, you are not doing your healer job well enough, I suggest l2p

Iskiab

Plus his post mentions as soon as the sorc is gone as a target his death is inevitable. Nothing worse then a healer who can’t keep themselves up, dead healers help no one.

Iskiab

As an aside I’m not recommending getting away from the team and solo hunting. As a magblade I’m on the same targets and am attacking from a different position... when I can. The melee glass cannons typically die so fast they’re constantly respawning making it difficult to group up.

In addition in a death match with a poor team I’m better off trying to kill steal the melee in the middle then chase after someone who’ll be dead on a couple seconds. The cries for ‘group up’ really means ‘get in a group because I have no survivability, if we all charge in and cc we can kill a couple people each before dying and maybe win this thing, come die with me!’

Koensol

Neloth wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

The reason so many complain is because they’re losing unless their team mates play a certain play style, the reason people keep playing NBs with cloak is because it works if done well.

It should be obvious where the problem is but that won’t stop people from complaining. Basicly it’s people who are lucky to win complaining to those who have decent specs and are used to winning. Why listen to people who don’t play well and let them dominate team tactics?

The issue is a bunch of Stam melee who wear medium with little survivability needing their team mates to tank for them to be effective, nothing more.

No. We complain because we (1-3 players, depending on how many ganker NBs are in the group) get mowed down by a full team of four because our NB “teammates” cloak away and left us outnumbered. I don’t need anyone to “tank” for me, but taking on a full BG team alone in a no CP environment isn’t going to go well unless on a full tank spec.

Go to Cyrodiil if you want to solo gank. BGs are team-based PVP encounters, so if you’re unwilling to play as a team, GTFO and stop ruining matches for the other four classes in this game.

This. Sorcs who love to streak out of my healing range also *** me the hell off. Like, mate I'm trying to heal you and you are forcing me to overextend in order to keep your ass alive. As a result I get pressured, the sorc dies anyway and the rest of the team is sent to respawn. I have come to the point where as a healer I will straight up leave the team if this happens. I'd rather wait 15 mins than spend the entire BG getting left behind by solo players. That these people have the audacity to complain to others is even worse.

If a sorc has to streak away from the fight to avoid pressure, you are not doing your healer job well enough, I suggest l2p

Lmfao, so you mean that when they streak away the instant they take damage is my fault? Gtfo lol. These people just have no clue what group play means. If you want to streak, streak towards me so you can benefit from the group heals/buffs and help pressure the opposing team, not to the other side of the map like some kind of solo rambo.

Koensol

Iskiab wrote: »

Plus his post mentions as soon as the sorc is gone as a target his death is inevitable. Nothing worse then a healer who can’t keep themselves up, dead healers help no one.

Been a while since I saw such an amazing strawman. Really, 10/10 on that one.

Royaji

So the actual issue is: brawling teams with a healer outshine everything in BGs. To counter such a team (premade or just good players) you need a brawling team of your own since TTK is too long to burst them down one by one.

But not everybody wants to play a brawler. And if you are getting into BGs through groupfinder you are getting random teammates. They are not necessaily top players who only want to run in a blob and sweat their wins. There are other playstyles that are fun. And you are not the one to dictate what should be fun for them.

So it always comes down to the same advice - groupfinder is there to give you a group. But the moment you want to have a specific group composition - like a bunch of brawlers - you should be making your own group. Sorry, this is how groupfinder is setup in it's current form.

Iskiab

Yup, that’s the issue but brawler groups are not the best groups, that’s the issue. A premade with two healers or a healer with the team having good survivability and group healing shreds everyone.

Those groups who dominate doing death matches and come out with no or one or two deaths for the team have zero brawlers.

Royaji

Iskiab wrote: »

Yup, that’s the issue but brawler groups are not the best groups, that’s the issue. A premade with two healers or a healer with the team having good survivability and group healing shreds everyone.

Those groups who dominate doing death matches and come out with no or one or two deaths for the team have zero brawlers.

They do though. A perfect blob of two stam-wardens, mag-warden and a healplar. This is a brawling group.

NuarBlack

Koensol wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

The reason so many complain is because they’re losing unless their team mates play a certain play style, the reason people keep playing NBs with cloak is because it works if done well.

It should be obvious where the problem is but that won’t stop people from complaining. Basicly it’s people who are lucky to win complaining to those who have decent specs and are used to winning. Why listen to people who don’t play well and let them dominate team tactics?

The issue is a bunch of Stam melee who wear medium with little survivability needing their team mates to tank for them to be effective, nothing more.

No. We complain because we (1-3 players, depending on how many ganker NBs are in the group) get mowed down by a full team of four because our NB “teammates” cloak away and left us outnumbered. I don’t need anyone to “tank” for me, but taking on a full BG team alone in a no CP environment isn’t going to go well unless on a full tank spec.

Go to Cyrodiil if you want to solo gank. BGs are team-based PVP encounters, so if you’re unwilling to play as a team, GTFO and stop ruining matches for the other four classes in this game.

This. Sorcs who love to streak out of my healing range also *** me the hell off. Like, mate I'm trying to heal you and you are forcing me to overextend in order to keep your ass alive. As a result I get pressured, the sorc dies anyway and the rest of the team is sent to respawn. I have come to the point where as a healer I will straight up leave the team if this happens. I'd rather wait 15 mins than spend the entire BG getting left behind by solo players. That these people have the audacity to complain to others is even worse.

If a sorc has to streak away from the fight to avoid pressure, you are not doing your healer job well enough, I suggest l2p

Lmfao, so you mean that when they streak away the instant they take damage is my fault? Gtfo lol. These people just have no clue what group play means. If you want to streak, streak towards me so you can benefit from the group heals/buffs and help pressure the opposing team, not to the other side of the map like some kind of solo rambo.

I generally agree with you but a sorc who knows how to use streak offensively can be a major benefit to a team. Streaking into the other teams back lines can cause the other team to not know where to aim their beatles and dawn breakers. If the rest of the team pushes in behind the wake of chaos left by the streaking sorc you can usually isolate and get kills especially if the sorc drops a negate too.

Thogard

Royaji wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Yup, that’s the issue but brawler groups are not the best groups, that’s the issue. A premade with two healers or a healer with the team having good survivability and group healing shreds everyone.

Those groups who dominate doing death matches and come out with no or one or two deaths for the team have zero brawlers.

They do though. A perfect blob of two stam-wardens, mag-warden and a healplar. This is a brawling group.

Yeah this is probably the ideal group. Maybe a Stam Sorc or mag sorc added in to help confirm the killing blows.

Royaji wrote: »

So the actual issue is: brawling teams with a healer outshine everything in BGs. To counter such a team (premade or just good players) you need a brawling team of your own since TTK is too long to burst them down one by one.

But not everybody wants to play a brawler. And if you are getting into BGs through groupfinder you are getting random teammates. They are not necessaily top players who only want to run in a blob and sweat their wins. There are other playstyles that are fun. And you are not the one to dictate what should be fun for them.

So it always comes down to the same advice - groupfinder is there to give you a group. But the moment you want to have a specific group composition - like a bunch of brawlers - you should be making your own group. Sorry, this is how groupfinder is setup in it's current form.

Your analysis is correct. But stamblades just don’t synergize well, and in the high MMR brackets, queueing in with a stamblade means in the majority of the cases that you’re dooming your team to a loss. So yeah, the stamblade can have fun, and they usually have the best k/d on their team because they can escape well.. but the rest of their team is fighting 3v4 and isn’t going to win that fight.

_Ahala_

I remember that match... good times and many cheesy soul assult comboes were had... On the topic of nb support: If we had more stamblades running bolstering darkness / soul siphon defensively, throwing fear traps on outnumbered allies, and building for something other than max damage with a bow then we would have a very different opionion of our nb teammates... support is more based on mindset than class but it wouldn’t hurt for bolstering darkness to have its radius increased and path of darkness to have its expedition duration increase (or aoe snare immunity?) to promote nb teamplay in my opinion

Adenoma

@Datthaw , I do think there’s room for something like 5x spinners with infused inferno front, 5x impregnable/shackle heavy, 2x TK or skoria (probs TK) with resto back bar and BRP resto. Layer HOTs and prob ward ally to reliably get major vitality in heavy armor. Running a 2x damage setup with a lot of intrinsic tankiness will give you some lethality.

I’ve also been impressed with 5x armor master back bar on a warden, 5x necro with a master destro and I’m sure you can swap that to front bar harness and back bar BRP resto for a light armor cloakless build.

Waffennacht

@Koensol

Sorry, but I found myself guilty of this last night

1. I PuG so I didn't even know we had a healer at the time
2. My back was to the healer so I didn't know he was with me
3. Got focused, freaked and streaked
4. healer tried to follow and save me, I got us both killed

I feel bad, I didn't know, I didn't know!!

sabresandiego_ESO

I have to disagree with Thogard. I win a very good percentage of the BGs I play in on my NB. Ovenface, a stealth and cloak using bow blade was the winning element in multiple high MMR organized battlegrounds we played yesterday, and he wasn’t even part of the draft. NBs can be very effective despite being under represented at high mmr

We were playing without healers though. In a game with healers, ovenface might be less effective.

moosegod

Like others may have said, the issue with NB in a BG is that of the med stamblade. Now I'm not counting the build out entirely but generally they're not very useful because they don't stay in a fight for very long and even if I'm playing a healer they will roll out and cloak away at first trouble, leaving you effectively a man down. A med blade can be good if they're skilled and can gank an enemy healer, use fear well, or are able to at least stay in a fight and keep up dps, but then a heavy blade is probably better.

MagNB on the other hand can be built in many ways for group play and is very helpful.