movement for DPS

Veinblood1965

Last night was running one of the PUG Vet dailies as DPS and the other DPS was not up to par, he was pretty close though. He probably ran them on normal just fine and was the first time on Vet. Right off the bat before we even get to a boss the Tank blurts out "Low DPS", then later on "You need to learn the mechanics" and just kept going on and on instead of just taking the time to point a few things out. You all know the type. I just started running Vet's a few weeks ago and doing just fine. Finally before we even got to the first boss the DPS left. Left me to wondering, what is it that keeps us from voting to KICK a jerk just because they are a tank? It's just a game. The healer was like if we kick him we have to wait on a tank. We ended up getting another DPS and finished the round but it felt sour. It's just a game. If we had wiped a lot I can understand but I'm serious we were like at the first group of trash mobs and he belts out, LOW DPS.

For my part as a DPS going forward if you are a jerk I vote to kick you, if it fails I leave. I refuse to be a part of negativity. I know it won't make any difference but DPS unite! Kick jerks movement has begun.

[Edit to remove inappropriate content]

ChunkyCat

You have too much faith in humanity.

Royaji

This is going to be good. I'll share popcorn.

Riverlynn

ChunkyCat wrote: »

You have too much faith in humanity.

No worries, spend enough time in these forums and that will soon change.

jircris11

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Last night was running one of the PUG Vet dailies as DPS and the other DPS was not up to par, he was pretty close though. He probably ran them on normal just fine and was the first time on Vet. Right off the bat before we even get to a boss the Tank blurts out "Low DPS", then later on "You need to learn the mechanics" and just kept going on and on instead of just taking the time to point a few things out. You all know the type. I just started running Vet's a few weeks ago and doing just fine. Finally before we even got to the first boss the DPS left. Left me to wondering, what is it that keeps us from voting to KICK a jerk just because they are a tank? It's just a game. The healer was like if we kick him we have to wait on a tank. We ended up getting another DPS and finished the round but it felt sour. It's just a game. If we had wiped a lot I can understand but I'm serious we were like at the first group of trash mobs and he belts out, LOW DPS.

For my part as a DPS going forward if you are a jerk I vote to kick you, if it fails I leave. I refuse to be a part of negativity. I know it won't make any difference but DPS unite! Kick jerks movement has begun.

Sadly this is the issue with gamers. To much elitist mindsets. They all forgot that they where just like that at one point. It's way I don't run vet or trials, well that and stress is bad for my health.

pshift

PUGs are mostly bad. It's rare that I get a good group. I always greet everyone and most of the time I don't even get a "hi" back, so I wouldn't expect any real feedback.

On top of that, there's simply a lot of neckbeards in this game who are just *** to anyone who doesn't play up to their standards. I think it just goes with the territory.

Nifty2g

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

For my part as a DPS going forward if you are a jerk I vote to kick you, if it fails I leave. I refuse to be a part of negativity. I know it won't make any difference but DPS unite! Kick jerks movement has begun.

Or just get better at the game and fix your DPS and help the other guy fix his, leaving a group because you're hearing that so and so isn't up to par is not going to fix something. You could've offered some tips to help the guy out or something

Veinblood1965

jircris11 wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Last night was running one of the PUG Vet dailies as DPS and the other DPS was not up to par, he was pretty close though. He probably ran them on normal just fine and was the first time on Vet. Right off the bat before we even get to a boss the Tank blurts out "Low DPS", then later on "You need to learn the mechanics" and just kept going on and on instead of just taking the time to point a few things out. You all know the type. I just started running Vet's a few weeks ago and doing just fine. Finally before we even got to the first boss the DPS left. Left me to wondering, what is it that keeps us from voting to KICK a jerk just because they are a tank? It's just a game. The healer was like if we kick him we have to wait on a tank. We ended up getting another DPS and finished the round but it felt sour. It's just a game. If we had wiped a lot I can understand but I'm serious we were like at the first group of trash mobs and he belts out, LOW DPS.

For my part as a DPS going forward if you are a jerk I vote to kick you, if it fails I leave. I refuse to be a part of negativity. I know it won't make any difference but DPS unite! Kick jerks movement has begun.

Sadly this is the issue with gamers. To much elitist mindsets. They all forgot that they where just like that at one point. It's way I don't run vet or trials, well that and stress is bad for my health.

Funny, the heals said same thing, elitist gamer.

Not to much faith in humanity really, just refuse to go along with the herd and who knows it might catch on, it's WHY people like that keep acting like that, next time it happens I'm stating "Hey ME TO movement for DPS, and BAM one of the two things will happen. (Yes I know I'll probably be the one to leave 9999.9999% of the time lol).

Maryal

Let's assume the player kicked was low dps because they hadn't done that dungeon on Vet mode before. There are differences between normal and vet mode. We all make mistakes, especially when attempting something we haven't done before. You can only learn from your mistakes if you are afforded the opportunity to make them in the first place.

I would have kicked the tank.

Digiman

jircris11 wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Last night was running one of the PUG Vet dailies as DPS and the other DPS was not up to par, he was pretty close though. He probably ran them on normal just fine and was the first time on Vet. Right off the bat before we even get to a boss the Tank blurts out "Low DPS", then later on "You need to learn the mechanics" and just kept going on and on instead of just taking the time to point a few things out. You all know the type. I just started running Vet's a few weeks ago and doing just fine. Finally before we even got to the first boss the DPS left. Left me to wondering, what is it that keeps us from voting to KICK a jerk just because they are a tank? It's just a game. The healer was like if we kick him we have to wait on a tank. We ended up getting another DPS and finished the round but it felt sour. It's just a game. If we had wiped a lot I can understand but I'm serious we were like at the first group of trash mobs and he belts out, LOW DPS.

For my part as a DPS going forward if you are a jerk I vote to kick you, if it fails I leave. I refuse to be a part of negativity. I know it won't make any difference but DPS unite! Kick jerks movement has begun.

Sadly this is the issue with gamers. To much elitist mindsets. They all forgot that they where just like that at one point. It's way I don't run vet or trials, well that and stress is bad for my health.

Its not that, some tanks in general know they are needed more and as such because they are in high demand, expect to be treated like royalty.

I have had my fair share of *** tanks, those types who leave the party the moment something looks tough, they expect to be carried. But when a new tank comes along to replace them we blaze through the dungeon like butter.

Wonder how many people have had groups where their first tank left only for the second persistent replacement help clean the dungeon up.

#Notalltanks.

MartiniDaniels

How tank knew who is low dps? No way. And he didn't kick that guy, just stated to group that there is problem. Guy who knew that he himself is the problem left to learn, like any decent person will do in such situation, what's the problem?

For this I like vet Direfrost. Last boss taught more new/fake/weak dps then any other boss in this game, probably vBC2 is good example too, but there you can blame tank, healer, whatever, on ice witch you can't blame anybody, she is pure dps check.

And don't start crying for that dps, I bet any player in the game faced that moment when he hits dummy for the first time and see laughable number and start adjusting his build and skills after that.

Latios

I just pull as much DPS as I can so no one can tell who’s pulling that much, so no beginner gets hate.

Honestly, if you didn’t actively ask for someone with X DPS, don’t be an ass and blurt stuff like that. The only real problem is when you have fake healers or tanks in veteran dungeons. Anything other than that is bs.

madarame_77

Did the tank and healer apply all debuffs on boss and buffs on the dps? Sometimes its the tank and healers to blame for low dps.

Protossyder

Maybe you should start a Learn-to-play-your-role movement instead..?

The_Lex

This is the consequence of the game design being solely focused around DPS and more DPS.

MartiniDaniels

Latios wrote: »

I just pull as much DPS as I can so no one can tell who’s pulling that much, so no beginner gets hate.

Honestly, if you didn’t actively ask for someone with X DPS, don’t be an ass and blurt stuff like that. The only real problem is when you have fake healers or tanks in veteran dungeons. Anything other than that is bs.

Lol, how many time it will take for usual 5-10k dps to kill those 300-400k hp mobs? How much times do you want to wipe at vFG2? How many potions / gems you want to spend in vDirefrost? Fake healer is not a problem at all if he got at least 1 or 2 emergency heals if dungeon has healing check

madarame_77 wrote: »

Did the tank and healer apply all debuffs on boss and buffs on the dps? Sometimes its the tank and healers to blame for low dps.

Ideal healer+tank buff your dps on boss max +50% all together. If you got 5k dps, with buffs it be 7.5k, still insufficient for vet, sorry ><

Agenericname

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Last night was running one of the PUG Vet dailies as DPS and the other DPS was not up to par, he was pretty close though. He probably ran them on normal just fine and was the first time on Vet. Right off the bat before we even get to a boss the Tank blurts out "Low DPS", then later on "You need to learn the mechanics" and just kept going on and on instead of just taking the time to point a few things out. You all know the type. I just started running Vet's a few weeks ago and doing just fine. Finally before we even got to the first boss the DPS left. Left me to wondering, what is it that keeps us from voting to KICK a jerk just because they are a tank? It's just a game. The healer was like if we kick him we have to wait on a tank. We ended up getting another DPS and finished the round but it felt sour. It's just a game. If we had wiped a lot I can understand but I'm serious we were like at the first group of trash mobs and he belts out, LOW DPS.

For my part as a DPS going forward if you are a jerk I vote to kick you, if it fails I leave. I refuse to be a part of negativity. I know it won't make any difference but DPS unite! Kick jerks movement has begun.

You're late to the party, but welcome to the club just the same. We have shirts and everything.

That said, theres some context missing so it would be impossible for me to say what I would have done. Telling someone that they need to pay attention to the mechanics or learn them isnt always toxic, but you were there and I wasnt. I draw a line at insults. Once they start flying we arent continuing on as a group one way or the other.

It also helps as a DD to evaluate ourselves and have a reasonable idea of where we stand in regards to the content. If we're not where we should be, theres no shame in acknowledging that and working towards it.

Drdeath20

Most people have done these dungeons 100s of times. They dont want to spend 4 hours locked into a 30 minute dungeon, soo they can get impatient.

Damage dealers are supposed to be a high end role because alot of dungeons have dps check points and because the better the groups dps the less tanking and healing is required.

If you find that you are receiving alot of toxicity, in PUGs, as a DD then i would suggest trying these dungeons on a different role.

Latios

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Latios wrote: »

I just pull as much DPS as I can so no one can tell who’s pulling that much, so no beginner gets hate.

Honestly, if you didn’t actively ask for someone with X DPS, don’t be an ass and blurt stuff like that. The only real problem is when you have fake healers or tanks in veteran dungeons. Anything other than that is bs.

Lol, how many time it will take for usual 5-10k dps to kill those 300-400k hp mobs? How much times do you want to wipe at vFG2? How many potions / gems you want to spend in vDirefrost? Fake healer is not a problem at all if he got at least 1 or 2 emergency heals if dungeon has healing check

madarame_77 wrote: »

Did the tank and healer apply all debuffs on boss and buffs on the dps? Sometimes its the tank and healers to blame for low dps.

Ideal healer+tank buff your dps on boss max +50% all together. If you got 5k dps, with buffs it be 7.5k, still insufficient for vet, sorry ><

Most bad ST DPS are decent in AoE(tornado spam), but I can understand how annoying it would be in CoH1 Final bosses, for example. That’s why I only run as DPS or off-healer. However, in the many times I’ve ran, only in really rare occasions I was paired with a dude that pulled 5-10K, in which case I deal 75-80% of the group damage.

If the problem is that big, ZoS should simply include a “DPS check” before queuing(quick stuff on a skeleton) and lock a few dungeons if it’s too low(for example, any with big DPS checks and harder mechanics, like they already do with low level toons). Other dungeons, like FG1, spindle 1, etc, would still be available in this case.

Pevey

I usually play dps, but i have tank and healer characters, too. There is no worse scenario in a dungeon than being a true tank or healer in a low dps group. Yesterday I healed CoH1 on normal where the combined damage of the two dds was 6-7k. It was almost unbelievable, I had never seen it that bad. And that is assuming the tank was dealing 0 damage, which is unlikely. It was the worst I had ever seen. Luckily, I was on my dunmer templar, who is usually tooled for damage, just switches equipment to heal, so it was no trouble to throw on zaan's and basically carry the dungeon. But it was not fun. At the end, the dds were like WOW, gg, tyfg, and i was like, I'm not flattered, you need to join a guild and address your dps issues before you queue again. I know it was harsh, I'm not generally a toxic player, but how else will they know? Will they continue to inflict this on other tanks and healers, further exacerbating the long dd wait times in the dungeon finder that I have to suffer on my dps toons?

TL;DR: Yes, the tank and healer know in the first pull or two if this is going to be worth their time. If it is not, they have every right to speak up and/or leave.

EDIT: I should add that one dd was level 40 and the other was almost CP 300. I would have been less harsh if they had both been newer players.

Mintaka5

Tanks are divas, and primadonnas. I think they are just trying to compensate for lack of "something". Just tell them to shut up and taunt. They only have one job.

Aurielle

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Tanks are divas, and primadonnas. I think they are just trying to compensate for lack of "something". Just tell them to shut up and taunt. They only have one job.

Damage dealers also have one job. If they’re dealing under 30k, they’re not doing it.

commodore64

Griefing is griefing, I don't care what your DPS or level is. The concept of being 'elitist' while playing an online RPG is hilarious, it's a nerd party and always will be.

JaZ2091

Double post.

JaZ2091

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Tanks are divas, and primadonnas. I think they are just trying to compensate for lack of "something". Just tell them to shut up and taunt. They only have one job.

Relax there kid.

Veinblood1965

Agreed on many part of these replies. As stated I just started running vets but did some research and manage to pull pretty good DPS with good rotation. And I definitely agree that if we've wipe 3 times on a boss that requires mechanics and someone doesn't know their role explain it to them and see how it goes. I'm talking about instances where the person is just a blatant ass. I did agree with the tank in part, I noticed on the first set of trash mobs it took longer than normal which could have been a precursor to a bad PUG run and yes I've had a few where we just had to call it a day due to that, it sucks to waste the time. I'm referring to super rude people in general not those that are just direct in their verbiage, kick or leave. Don't be an enabler.

Yes, maybe a dream world but this is a game and we can make it as good or as bad as we want it to be. I was thinking while this was occuring about what makes people just go with the flow instead of stand up and state enough is enough, all the while I was going with the flow also, felt bad afterwards and had to look at why I enabled the bad manners. I'm not like that in real life why would I be in a game? More of a human nature question also really.

AhPook_Is_Here

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Last night was running one of the PUG Vet dailies as DPS and the other DPS was not up to par, he was pretty close though. He probably ran them on normal just fine and was the first time on Vet. Right off the bat before we even get to a boss the Tank blurts out "Low DPS", then later on "You need to learn the mechanics" and just kept going on and on instead of just taking the time to point a few things out. You all know the type. I just started running Vet's a few weeks ago and doing just fine. Finally before we even got to the first boss the DPS left. Left me to wondering, what is it that keeps us from voting to KICK a jerk just because they are a tank? It's just a game. The healer was like if we kick him we have to wait on a tank. We ended up getting another DPS and finished the round but it felt sour. It's just a game. If we had wiped a lot I can understand but I'm serious we were like at the first group of trash mobs and he belts out, LOW DPS.

For my part as a DPS going forward if you are a jerk I vote to kick you, if it fails I leave. I refuse to be a part of negativity. I know it won't make any difference but DPS unite! Kick jerks movement has begun.

There is a good formula for hedonistic calculus, but basically what's going on in your brain is something like:
Morality+empathy+enjoyment/duration of lost time waiting for tank*(impatienceCOFF)*(certaintyCOFF the group will remain intact till another tank comes)>=1

There might be more variables but at the end of that subconscious calculation you decide if you are a conformist fascist and stick with the immoral person who brings utility, or an idealist who trades utility for a feeling Kantian style correctness.

ccmedaddy

commodore64 wrote: »

Griefing is griefing, I don't care what your DPS or level is. The concept of being 'elitist' while playing an online RPG is hilarious, it's a nerd party and always will be.

lol ZOS should put a reminder on the login screen: "no matter how good you are at this game, you're still a nerd"

CultOfMMO

its never just a game, it is ppl's time, 3 ppl in a dungeon, 11 ppl in a trial

quite literally anyone who ever thinks along the line of "its just a game" basically zero regard for other people's precious time, and that's downright disrespectful

commodore64

CultOfMMO wrote: »

its never just a game, it is ppl's time, 3 ppl in a dungeon, 11 ppl in a trial

quite literally anyone who ever thinks along the line of "its just a game" basically zero regard for other people's precious time, and that's downright disrespectful

It is just a game

MartiniDaniels

Aurielle wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Tanks are divas, and primadonnas. I think they are just trying to compensate for lack of "something". Just tell them to shut up and taunt. They only have one job.

Damage dealers also have one job. If they’re dealing under 30k, they’re not doing it.

Such guys think that it is healer's and tank's (and probably 2nd dps) job to complete the dungeon, but he came to vet for recreation and amusement, to be amused in the end how he managed hordes of 300k mobs while in overland they kill 2-3 30k mob for 10 seconds.