Buff stam sorc

eso_lags

Im going to assume there are buffs coming in the future.. But seeing as we are well into murkmire i wanted to post this before next update.. And ill probably post something like this once every update, with blind hope that someone from zos will read it, until we get some TLC because im stubborn. First of all, if you dont care about stam sorc (and i dont think many people do) then you probably wont want to read this. It will be long. But other opinions, or constructive criticism, from anyone is always helpful. Also this isnt a rage post. Im not struggling on stam sorc. Im not upset with the class. Im not upset with zos (about this). I enjoy the class, I just think it could use some attention. And this is mainly from a pvp perspective, at least this thread.

So, Im not going to list out every skill and passive that each stamina/magicka version of the classes can utilize. Im not going to list out every combo that these skills and passives create, and im not going to list out every counter that these skills and passives give one class against another.. I can if its needed, but all you need to do is simply compare stam sorc to some other classes.. In fact i would say every class has more to utilize, when it comes to skills and passives, than stam sorc. But it really shines when you compare a class like stamina nightblade, or mag plar, or stamina warden..

Even classes that might not be in the best place still have more to utilize than stam sorc does. But compared to the classes i named the difference is huge. Stamblade can utilize so much, and counter many classes when played right. And with all the skills and passives a stamblade can utilize, there are so many combos and different play styles that are open to them. Viable combos and different play styles that are successful in pvp. Mag plar is the same, just its easy access to purify counters so much.

But i dont want to get stuck on other classes for too long. Although its hard to talk about one thing and not the other... And no, I dont want zos to nerf anything. (Except for snares, #nerfsnares) Really i would rather zos stops nerfing things like they do. Its awful and this update was a mess.

So i think there are simple things that could really help this class if they were given to it. Things that other classes have access too, and maybe some that certain classes dont. Again, a class like stamblade has solid self buffs and solid debuffs. Defile, fracture, major/minor berserk, maim, defile, 20% damage debuff after incap, healing ult, major/minor ward & resolve, ulti regen, critical damage, resource return, savagery.. And the list goes on... And this can also be said about a lot of the other classes too..

When you look at stam sorc even one of these buffs could do so much for the class. Fracture would be huge. I think (or i should say i hope) sometime in the near future zos will give stam sorcs fracture. Its a good buff to damage and stam sorc, i believe, is the only stamina class without some sort of fracture. I think stamplar is the only class with just minor fracture, but they have damage skills with high burst potential to make up for it only being minor.. Among other things..

Either way, i dont think fracture would be enough. I would be thrilled if we got it, but we need more.. In the past stam sorc had a few certain things going for it in pvp. It was good at kiting people with speed, it had the best sustain tool in the game, and it had a third bar. Now none of those things matter. Anyone can be fast, and pvp is plagued by awful snares. Dark deal is still the best sustain tool in the game, imo, but sustain isnt as much of an issue these days and all other classes have good sustain tools as well. Not as good, but still good. Also, the third bar is now gone. So what are we left with?

Well we have crit surge. A great skill. We have bound armor which is useful for the max stam bonus, but otherwise im not sure its all that useful for a pvp DD. We have hurricane, a very good skill that gives us our resistance buffs (that all classes receive), minor expedition, and deals good DOT damage. We have dark deal which is probably the best sustain tool in game, and also offers a very good heal. Both streak and rune prison can be useful but are costly on your magic and streak has become much less useful. Rune prison a strong stun.

As for the passives. Well the useful passives for us are unholy knowledge (5% stam/mag cost reduction), power stone (15% ulti cost reduction), energized (5% physical dmg increase), implosion (implosion OP), and expert mage (increase weapon dmg by 2% for each sorc skill slotted, which doesnt usually end up being many, if any).. Then we have deadric protection which is good, but only if you slot bound armor.

Thats pretty much it. A lot of those things are very good. But it still pales in comparison to many classes. I think the 2 biggest issues are the lack of buffs/debuffs, the lack of class damage skills, and the lack of a useful, or, damage ultimate. Im not sure that we even need a spamable damage skill, such as surprise attack, jabs, cliff racer, or even shalks. But something extra would help. Even if its another DOT. 1 class DOT damage skill is unacceptable. As for the ultimate, well lets compare..

Stamblade has incap and the tether healing ult. Dk has leap and corrosive. Stamplar has a healing ult and a stamina dmg ult with protection. And Warden has the bear, the storm, and the healing ult. And stam sorc has negate. Some of those might not be the best ultimate's (and some are very strong) but more useful skills, passives, and ultimate's give people options and creativity. Stam sorc is very limited with options.

Lack of healing passives is another issue. Every class has healing passives. And im not even saying that we need these, im just saying it adds to the list. Stam sorc is in a better place now then it was in the past, thats for sure. But other classes seem to get buffed while little is done to this one. I actually wonder how warden got put in the game before they gave stam sorc some real buffs. The only thing a stam sorc has on warden is dark deal. Warden has massive burst, massive heals, solid sustain, buffs, major heroism, and so much more. Why would you give that class so much but leave this one with so little? I can think of one reason..

Right now when i play stam sorc i play 2h. Dual wield is better but i like 2h. But other classes could run the same build or play style better. Dual wield DK is simialr to DW stam sorc, but dk is better because of all of the DOTS and corrosive.. And still with access to an CC like rune prison with less reliance on magic for sustain, and with mag sustain built into the earthen heart passives.. Dual wield warden is better because shalks, DB, spin... The same can be said about 2h with other classes as well. They can do it better. Its hard to burst down tankier targets on a 2h stam sorc build without certain buffs/debuffs, solid dots like DK, or burst skills like stamblade, warden, or stamplar..

I basically build to survive while dealing good damage if i go for a 2h build.. I do this because i know most people are very tanky right now, i dont have certain burst skills, and the fight will probably be a bit longer than if i were on a stam warden.. Stam sorc is good at surviving but not as good as it used to be. And a lot of it comes from my race, weapon skill choices, and gear choices.. And sure i could go for an even higher damage build than i already have, but a defile build with high dots will rip my healing. I dont have purify, or healing passives with a class burst heal, i dont have cloak or image or a healing ult, i dont have corrosive or major mending..

Anyway, it probably comes off like im unhappy with the class. Im not. This weekend was one of the best for me in cyrodil in a long time.. I actually had some fun fights and the lag was slightly better than usual, probably because of the event. Im not unhappy with stam sorc, i just want to give my opinion on why i think, compared to every other class, it needs a little attention. I dont think it needs everything i listed that other classes have. I still think that i can play it effectively, even solo, right now. And if i was playing it with dual wield id be even more effective..

And im sure there are better stam sorcs who run different builds that might do better, and im sure someone will let me know that. Thats great, but it still doesnt change the fact that this class is lacking.. And if im honest thats one of the reasons i like playing it, because it isnt the top class.

I dont like doing the same thing that everyone else does. Its one of the reasons i dont run dual wield right now. Maybe its ptsd from being shalked and spun so many times by warden zergs, but i just think after seeing the same thing over and over, it just bores me.. I dont want or need this class to be the top class in the game. I dont want or need it to offer more than other classes.. I dont want to go into cyrodil and see massive groups of stam sorcs, like i see with stam wardens and magplars right now.. I just want zos to look at the class and improve on it a bit.

Fracture would be a start. Maybe one or two other buffs in the form of a passive or skill change, maybe some kind of other class damage skill, and maybe a tweak to one of the ultimates to make it useful to some stam sorcs who want to do something different. I think we just need more options for creativity so that more people might consider playing this class. Like i said, its never been the top class but i know that i see less and less stam sorcs in cyrodil every update..

And credit where credit is due, zos has given us a couple buffs. A long time ago we got some well needed buffs that pretty much made the class for years and then recently they changed bound armor and the persistence passive (which i forgot to list above). But even still we are lacking. And something like fracture seems like it should be a given for this class. Thats all.

Apparently i should have done this the same way i did last time. This will be the tl;dr version, the detailed version can remain in the spoiler... It may have been a bit over the top...

As a pvp DD stam sorc... Stam sorc is a lacking class in comparison to other classes. It is certainly in a better spot than years ago, but still lacking in comparison.. Comparing the buffs/debuffs, skill and passives, and the combos and counters, that other classes have it is clear that stam sorc is at the bottom. No useful ults, no major/minor buffs to damage, no enemy debuffs, no class damage skills besides hurricane, no defensive buffs besides major resistance buffs.. No room for as much creativity as other classes have. If you think i am mistaken, compare stam sorc to the other stam classes, especially stamblade or stamden, and please let me know why im wrong.

Im pretty happy playing my stam sorc right now as a main, and a couple other classes as well. Im not posting this as an urgent matter.. Just giving my opinion in hopes they will buff the class in the near future.. It may not have everything that once made it unique, but it still has the best sustain tool it game. Im not looking for it to be the top class in game, or even better than the others, But in comparison with every other class its clear that it needs a couple things. Other classes can have insane burst, insane healing, and great sustain, based on their own class skills. Stam sorc has great sustain based on its class skills but when it comes to class buffs/debuffs, its lacking. Everything else needs to come from another source.

I think adding fracture would be a great start for the near future... And sometime down the road i hope to see a useful ultimate, another damage skill of some sort (id even take another dot), and maybe a passive or two with some kind of self damage buff or solid enemy debuff. Like i said, comparing it to something like stamblade or stam warden shows alot and honestly makes no sense as to why its stayed this way for so long.


@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel

rexagamemnon

No

Katahdin

Geez,
Is there a crib notes version of that post other than "buff stamsorc"?

del9

There has to be a more efficient way to get your point across

Jakx

Basically, the passives for the other classes each are useful to either magicka or stam builds in some capacity. Half of sorc passives just flat out wont help Stamina builds due to the nature of either the passive requiring an ability from a tree that has no use for a Stamina build or just the passives have no Stamina alternative.


Its like one day they did a pass and were like throw some physical damage on this passive.. that passive. And were like good bandaid, peace out. Left the rest.

Honestly, at a base level passives are a HUGE reason NBs are as strong as they are and other classes lag behind. Go click through NB passives and each one has great synergy to the class. Every other class has several passives that just arent relevant to a given build.

Rex-Umbra

Play any other class and youll see stam sorc is as op as possible group pvp especially spin to win in bgs.

Luigi_Vampa

Nice post, Tolstoy. Sorcs in general do need their passives looked at. We have so many useless passives. Pets restore Magicka when they die, but they don't die in group content anymore so what is the point? Have to have a pet for the health bonus, but the pets are useless for Stam. Too many morphs do nothing for Stam especially. Sorc passives are a mess.

Aznox

I think Stamsorc is in a fine spot at the moment.

it could use a stam ult for fun/diversity, but it definitely doesn't need more power.

tactx

In PVE we need better sustain / regen.

Skwor

No they are fine, could even use a possible nerf in pvp bgs.

Colecovision

Stam sorc pve needs a pet. I doubt it would be worth running in pvp, but it would be very fun pve. There are 4 pets. One can be stam. If somehow it's too much for pvp, just make players immune to physical damage from sorc pets, like they are the ambush stun.

BooPerScOOper

I've been saying this for a while now.. Give the Storm Atro. 12 sec Major Berserk to caster

The end

LiquidPony

Make Dark Exchange instant cast and adjust its strength accordingly.

Get rid of the useless Charged Atronach ulti morph and replace it with something that does Physical Damage.

Those two things alone would improve sustain, increase group utility, and increase DPS and PvE stamsorcs would probably be in a pretty decent place.

In PvE, stamsorc sustain is garbage, so I have to disagree with OP's notion that "stamsorc has great sustain". Worst stam spec in the game from that perspective (probably the worst stam spec in the game for group PvE in general).

Vermethys

StamNB and Stamden are undoubtedly the top PvP specs at the moment, but I highly doubt that Stam Sorc performs any worse than StamDK for example -- so I wouldn't say it's at the bottom at all. But yes, I agree that they need some sort of attention; their passives are mostly unattractive and useless (being suited more for magsorc) and barely any of their abilities are stamina based.

eso_lags

Back from the dead?

Anyway lets compare stam dk..

Ardent flame
Skills: 3 solid dots in the form of claw, breath, and flames of oblivion... Also major fracture and major savagery..
Passives: Poison damage bonus and stamina restoration, enemy movement speed reduction, more poison damage bonus, poison damage cost reduction...

Draconic power
Skills: Leap, dragons blood, volatile, reflective scales.. And those skills come with major ward/resolve, major fortitude and major endurance, and snare immunity..
Passives: Increase the amount of damage you can block by 10%, 12% healing received, increase health recovery by 5% for each draconic ability slotted and increase range of instant melee attacks by 2 meters, increase spell resist by 3300....

Earthenheart
Skills: Corrosive armor, fragmented/igneous shield, molten weapons, petrify.. And those skills come with major mending, major brutality, and a CC that cannot be dodged or blocked....
Passives: Increase earthenheart abilities by 20%, using your ultimate returns a solid amount of every stat, using an earthenheart ability gives you minor brutality and generates 3 ultimate every 6 seconds, and casting an earthenheart ability restores 1k stam....

Stam dk might not be at the top of the classes but it has a lot to work with. It has high dot damage, very good healing passives, many buffs, debuffs, class damage skills with passives to buff those skills, very good resource return skills, good magicka and stamina utility skills, and corrosive which is amazing... I feel like the healing is a big help to stam dks as well, compared to stam sorc anyway. If i get hit with defile im in trouble, if you do you can pop igneous and negate a lot of the defile. And even still there are bonus healing passives..

Stam sorc...

Dark magic
Skills: Negate, Dark deal, rune prison. What comes with that is probably the best sustain tool in the game, a CC that cannot be blocked but can be dodged, and a unique ultimate that is good in group play but pretty useless for solo most of the time.
Passives: 5% magic/stam cost reduction, after blocking an attack your next ability costs 15% less..

Deadric summoning
Skills: Bound armaments... 11% stam increase, 8% light attack damage bonus, and when you activate, for 3k stam, increase block mitigation by 36% for 3 seconds..
Passives: 15% ultimate cost reduction, and 20% health/stam recovery if you slot bound armor...

Storm calling
Skills: hurricane, crit surge, blot escape.. What comes with that is major ward/resolve, minor expedition, and the classes only stamina damage skill in the form of a solid DOT... Major brutality and a heal every 1 second when you crit, and bolt escape..
Passives: Increase physical damage by 5%, implosion, Increase your weapon damage by 2% for each class ability slotted..

And thats pretty much it.. If you compare other classes, such as stamblade and stamden, the difference is gross. When you take combos and counters into account its even worse.. And stam dk might not be too far off from stam sorc in the currnet meta... Although I still feel like it has access to a decent amount more, which means more creativity and options for builds. And something to burst these damage dealing tanks/heal tanks in the current meta.

Like i said before im not saying that the class is terrible. I can make it work just fine and go out and solo. The issue is that compared to other classes it is lacking. Its amazing to me that it stayed lacking while stam warden got put in the game.. Or while stamblade exists..

It lacks class damage skills, it lacks a class ult.. There is no class burst tool such as incap, spectral bow, power of the light, shalks, or corrosive.. It needs some more passives. Maybe something like fracture and minor berserk.. Maybe a small healing passive like stamblade has.. And maybe a useful ultimate..

Thankfully the skills we do have are good. Dark deal is really the best thing we have.. Hurricane is a basic buff that all classes get with a good dot for melee range, and minor expedition, and a cool animation... Crit surge is a good bonus heal.. And bound armor is decent but really only for the 11% stam and passive that comes with it.. Again i dont have any issue playing my stam sorc, i just want to make sure the devs are aware that it needs attention. I certainly dont want it to be the best class. And it does seem they are giving it tiny buffs every now and again which is good.

eso_lags

LiquidPony wrote: »

Make Dark Exchange instant cast and adjust its strength accordingly.

Get rid of the useless Charged Atronach ulti morph and replace it with something that does Physical Damage.

Those two things alone would improve sustain, increase group utility, and increase DPS and PvE stamsorcs would probably be in a pretty decent place.

In PvE, stamsorc sustain is garbage, so I have to disagree with OP's notion that "stamsorc has great sustain". Worst stam spec in the game from that perspective (probably the worst stam spec in the game for group PvE in general).

I know it was a lot to read, and i might not have even put this in the tl;dr version, but i did say somewhere that this was coming from a pvp perspective... But ya you are right. It has nothing for sustain unless you slot dark deal or bound armor.. 20% recov is nice from bound armor but i do think other classes have easier access too sustain in pve..

ccmedaddy

Stamsorc = worst sustain out of all stam specs
Magsorc = worst sustain out of all mag specs

Sorcs need to get a new class sustain passive like how they gave DKs Combustion a couple patches ago.

eso_lags

Skwor wrote: »

No they are fine, could even use a possible nerf in pvp bgs.

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Play any other class and youll see stam sorc is as op as possible group pvp especially spin to win in bgs.

Aznox wrote: »

I think Stamsorc is in a fine spot at the moment.

it could use a stam ult for fun/diversity, but it definitely doesn't need more power.

I do play other classes.

Stam warden is basically a better stam sorc. It has so much to offer. And if you are going to come on here to complain about steel tornado why not just complain about steel tornado?? Its not a class skill its a weapon skill that is the current meta for any group with a stamina user..

But more than that stam wardens with the shalk-dawnbreaker- spin combo are much more deadly than a stam sorc spinning with hurricane.. Yes dual wield stam sorc is strong, but that can be said for any class. Try playing 2h stam sorc like i do, its nowhere near as strong simply because of how strong steel tornado is as an execute that cannot be dodged.

And a nerf in bgs..? What does that even mean o_o ?

Just because something is strong doesnt mean that everything cannot be stronger. A good stam sorc on a dual wield build is strong. A good stamden on a DW build is stronger. Same goes for everything else. Its not hard to spin. Dk dual wield builds are insanely strong and heavy (or even medium) DW stamblades have been gross for a very long time now.. And they dont even have to spin, they can just be tanky and rely on incap to get the kills.

So please dont tell me stam sorc is OP in group pvp. Anything can be strong in a group but other classes, mainly warden right now, can do it better. Compare what the classes have to offer with their skills and passives, maybe solo a bit, and then let me know.

Aznox

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Stamsorc = worst sustain out of all stam specs
Sorcs need to get a new class sustain passive like how they gave DKs Combustion a couple patches ago.

Yeah, as a stam sorc i wish i had a tool that would allow me to run a build with only 1200 stam regen but with extremely high resistances and damage ...

oh wait ... that's called Dark Deal.

eso_lags wrote: »

Stam warden is basically a better stam sorc.
[...]
Try playing 2h stam sorc like i do
[...]
A good stam sorc on a dual wield build is strong. A good stamden on a DW build is stronger.

Well maybe if you tried playing stamsorc to it's strength ..

Stamwarden has better burst thanks to shalks, but in a pressure fight hurricane is going to be worth more damage at a lower cost.

MaxJrFTW

L2p issue. Stamina sorcerers are in a very good spot.

ccmedaddy

Aznox wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Stamsorc = worst sustain out of all stam specs
Sorcs need to get a new class sustain passive like how they gave DKs Combustion a couple patches ago.

Yeah, as a stam sorc i wish i had a tool that would allow me to run a build with only 1200 stam regen but with extremely high resistances and damage ...

oh wait ... that's called Dark Deal.

lol I missed the fact that this is a PvP thread. My point was from a PvE perspective where casting Dark Deal is a DPS loss.

Gotta say I haven't really had any sustain issues with my stamsorc in PvP but then he's a werewolf.

MaxwellC

@eso_lags
Mate you guys literally stole my skill so how about you give me my Flames of Oblivion AoE back... oh yeah they're calling it "Hurricane"; Give me that back and then we can talk about buffs to a class that has high mobility, passive execute, and passives that don't need X/Y skill to actually be useful also better resource regen.

Aliyavana

All stam sorcs need is a better class identity. Weapon skills are boring

Jakx

Super strange to see all the stamdens come flying in to trump up some other class to deflect from their blatant overpoweredness. Fact is all stam specs are strong AF compared to magicka right now. However, on the list of stam classes... sorry to tell you. Stamsorc probably on the bottom of the list of Stam classes.

Please comeback and stick your name to a list that somehow puts Stamwarden or Stamblade underneath Stamsorc lol. Only case you might have is StamDk but they're close.


This post was well written out and its core point is that Sorcs have a ton of abilities that dont synergize at all with Stam and many useless passives. It doesnt mean Stamsorc isnt viable or good but in the name of class diversity and having some uniqueness.. stamsorc toolkit needs love. The entire spec relies on general abilities available to everyone. Doesnt even have a class Ult.

eso_lags

Aznox wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Stamsorc = worst sustain out of all stam specs
Sorcs need to get a new class sustain passive like how they gave DKs Combustion a couple patches ago.

Yeah, as a stam sorc i wish i had a tool that would allow me to run a build with only 1200 stam regen but with extremely high resistances and damage ...

oh wait ... that's called Dark Deal.

eso_lags wrote: »

Stam warden is basically a better stam sorc.
[...]
Try playing 2h stam sorc like i do
[...]
A good stam sorc on a dual wield build is strong. A good stamden on a DW build is stronger.

Well maybe if you tried playing stamsorc to it's strength ..

Stamwarden has better burst thanks to shalks, but in a pressure fight hurricane is going to be worth more damage at a lower cost.

Wow.. Mind blowing, truly..

Playing stam sorc to its strengths huh. Trust and believe i play stam sorc to the few strengths it has. Not that it particularity has many. Honestly coming from the class it has good sustain. I can spec into higher damage and lower recovery because of dark deal. Nice. But what other strengths?

As i said in the first post, stam sorc used to have a few things going for it. Speed, mobility, best sustain in game, and a third bar. Now anyone can be fast with swift, streak is pretty useless considering the snare infestation in game, plus gap close, which makes the magicka not worth wasting, sustain is still the best, and the third bar is gone.

So what are we left with? What skills and passives? What combos can we create with them? What classes can we counter with them? We can build for high damage but still not have the same burst potential as stamblade, stamden, stamplar, and even stam dk with its corrosive popped...

I know what strengths and weaknesses the class has ive played it long enough. Thats not the point. Its not that you CANT build strong working with certain sets, weapon skills, or racial passives.. The point is what its lacking compared to other classes.

And its truly mind boggling that you would think hurricane is going to help more than shalks. Are you kidding me?? Where? lol.. Just go into cyrodil and look at the groups.. Ask yourself why there are an excess of stamina wardens and not many stam sorcs. And if you are talking solo then you're still wrong. Blowing up a few people with shalk-db-spin is more effective than hurricane-db-spin.. Come on.

Kadoin

eso_lags wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Stamsorc = worst sustain out of all stam specs
Sorcs need to get a new class sustain passive like how they gave DKs Combustion a couple patches ago.

Yeah, as a stam sorc i wish i had a tool that would allow me to run a build with only 1200 stam regen but with extremely high resistances and damage ...

oh wait ... that's called Dark Deal.

eso_lags wrote: »

Stam warden is basically a better stam sorc.
[...]
Try playing 2h stam sorc like i do
[...]
A good stam sorc on a dual wield build is strong. A good stamden on a DW build is stronger.

Well maybe if you tried playing stamsorc to it's strength ..

Stamwarden has better burst thanks to shalks, but in a pressure fight hurricane is going to be worth more damage at a lower cost.

Wow.. Mind blowing, truly..

Playing stam sorc to its strengths huh. Trust and believe i play stam sorc to the few strengths it has. Not that it particularity has many. Honestly coming from the class it has good sustain. I can spec into higher damage and lower recovery because of dark deal. Nice. But what other strengths?

As i said in the first post, stam sorc used to have a few things going for it. Speed, mobility, best sustain in game, and a third bar. Now anyone can be fast with swift, streak is pretty useless considering the snare infestation in game, plus gap close, which makes the magicka not worth wasting, sustain is still the best, and the third bar is gone.

So what are we left with? What skills and passives? What combos can we create with them? What classes can we counter with them? We can build for high damage but still not have the same burst potential as stamblade, stamden, stamplar, and even stam dk with its corrosive popped...

I know what strengths and weaknesses the class has ive played it long enough. Thats not the point. Its not that you CANT build strong working with certain sets, weapon skills, or racial passives.. The point is what its lacking compared to other classes.

And its truly mind boggling that you would think hurricane is going to help more than shalks. Are you kidding me?? Where? lol.. Just go into cyrodil and look at the groups.. Ask yourself why there are an excess of stamina wardens and not many stam sorcs. And if you are talking solo then you're still wrong. Blowing up a few people with shalk-db-spin is more effective than hurricane-db-spin.. Come on.

So because you happen to see a lot of stam wardens stam sorc needs a buff? Really?

eso_lags

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

L2p issue. Stamina sorcerers are in a very good spot.

Maybe someone like you with such knowledge and skill at the class, no the game, could enlighten me as to what i could do to get better. I've been waiting for someone like you to come along to help me. Thank god you are finally here. Ill be patiently waiting for your response.. Just a few tips and tricks for the common folk if you dont mind.

MaxwellC wrote: »

@eso_lags
Mate you guys literally stole my skill so how about you give me my Flames of Oblivion AoE back... oh yeah they're calling it "Hurricane"; Give me that back and then we can talk about buffs to a class that has high mobility, passive execute, and passives that don't need X/Y skill to actually be useful also better resource regen.

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not buuuut....

Go ahead and look a few posts up when i compared stam dk to stam sorc. Mobility is a plus but not unique to the class anymore. Yes implosion is OP. Yes dark deal is amazing. And yes there are a few passives that are useful without having to do much, but those passives are not the most OP passives in the game.. Some cost reduction, 5% damage, 2% damage if you slot sorc skills..

Like i said multiple times im not saying the class is garbage im saying its at the bottom, and dk may not be far behind it. Fracture would be nice, maybe another damage buff, a class dmg skill like maybe another DOT, and some kind of useful ultimate.. Why dont you compare things before you make insane comments about one class stealing another classes ability.. And if this was sarcasm then sorry o_o..

eso_lags

Kadoin wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Stamsorc = worst sustain out of all stam specs
Sorcs need to get a new class sustain passive like how they gave DKs Combustion a couple patches ago.

Yeah, as a stam sorc i wish i had a tool that would allow me to run a build with only 1200 stam regen but with extremely high resistances and damage ...

oh wait ... that's called Dark Deal.

eso_lags wrote: »

Stam warden is basically a better stam sorc.
[...]
Try playing 2h stam sorc like i do
[...]
A good stam sorc on a dual wield build is strong. A good stamden on a DW build is stronger.

Well maybe if you tried playing stamsorc to it's strength ..

Stamwarden has better burst thanks to shalks, but in a pressure fight hurricane is going to be worth more damage at a lower cost.

Wow.. Mind blowing, truly..

Playing stam sorc to its strengths huh. Trust and believe i play stam sorc to the few strengths it has. Not that it particularity has many. Honestly coming from the class it has good sustain. I can spec into higher damage and lower recovery because of dark deal. Nice. But what other strengths?

As i said in the first post, stam sorc used to have a few things going for it. Speed, mobility, best sustain in game, and a third bar. Now anyone can be fast with swift, streak is pretty useless considering the snare infestation in game, plus gap close, which makes the magicka not worth wasting, sustain is still the best, and the third bar is gone.

So what are we left with? What skills and passives? What combos can we create with them? What classes can we counter with them? We can build for high damage but still not have the same burst potential as stamblade, stamden, stamplar, and even stam dk with its corrosive popped...

I know what strengths and weaknesses the class has ive played it long enough. Thats not the point. Its not that you CANT build strong working with certain sets, weapon skills, or racial passives.. The point is what its lacking compared to other classes.

And its truly mind boggling that you would think hurricane is going to help more than shalks. Are you kidding me?? Where? lol.. Just go into cyrodil and look at the groups.. Ask yourself why there are an excess of stamina wardens and not many stam sorcs. And if you are talking solo then you're still wrong. Blowing up a few people with shalk-db-spin is more effective than hurricane-db-spin.. Come on.

So because you happen to see a lot of stam wardens stam sorc needs a buff? Really?

If thats what you got out of everything i said then im pretty sure that I cannot help you understand. That is so far from the point. What i was saying was a response to you saying "but in a pressure fight hurricane is going to be worth more damage at a lower cost." No. Wrong. Incorrect.

And then i said, ask yourself why there are so many stam wardens running around cyrodil with that combo.. If hurricane was better you would see waaaay more stam sorcs than you do. And why dont you go ahead and directly compare the classes. Buffs/debuffs, combos/counters, utility and damage skills/passives, strengths/weaknesses.. Let me know what you find.

eso_lags

Aliyavana wrote: »

All stam sorcs need is a better class identity. Weapon skills are boring

While i think it might be a bit more than that, i agree. We used to have some identity but with summerset and murkmire the little identity we had is pretty much gone.. Id say the biggest strength stam sorc has is dark deal and being able to go more into damage than sustain. But identity is definitely a problem.

Personally i would like to at least get fracture as a debuff, maybe a damage buff like minor berserk, one more stamina damage skill (even if its a dot), and a useful ult.. A focus on air damage in the form of physical damage maybe. We would still lack any sort of burst tool like other classes, but we can compensate with going more into damage with less sustain.. Of course sustain isnt a massive issue anymore, especially in a group, so something like warden will most likely be better, at least for now... But at the end of the day id be happy to even get fracture in the near future...

Jakx wrote: »

Super strange to see all the stamdens come flying in to trump up some other class to deflect from their blatant overpoweredness. Fact is all stam specs are strong AF compared to magicka right now. However, on the list of stam classes... sorry to tell you. Stamsorc probably on the bottom of the list of Stam classes.

Please comeback and stick your name to a list that somehow puts Stamwarden or Stamblade underneath Stamsorc lol. Only case you might have is StamDk but they're close.


This post was well written out and its core point is that Sorcs have a ton of abilities that dont synergize at all with Stam and many useless passives. It doesnt mean Stamsorc isnt viable or good but in the name of class diversity and having some uniqueness.. stamsorc toolkit needs love. The entire spec relies on general abilities available to everyone. Doesnt even have a class Ult.

Happy to see that some people actually get the point.. Mainly being whats in bold. People are amazing.. Apparently either i think the class is garbage or im just garbage and the class is actually OP.. There can be a bit of nuance to it.

Kadoin

eso_lags wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Stamsorc = worst sustain out of all stam specs
Sorcs need to get a new class sustain passive like how they gave DKs Combustion a couple patches ago.

Yeah, as a stam sorc i wish i had a tool that would allow me to run a build with only 1200 stam regen but with extremely high resistances and damage ...

oh wait ... that's called Dark Deal.

eso_lags wrote: »

Stam warden is basically a better stam sorc.
[...]
Try playing 2h stam sorc like i do
[...]
A good stam sorc on a dual wield build is strong. A good stamden on a DW build is stronger.

Well maybe if you tried playing stamsorc to it's strength ..

Stamwarden has better burst thanks to shalks, but in a pressure fight hurricane is going to be worth more damage at a lower cost.

Wow.. Mind blowing, truly..

Playing stam sorc to its strengths huh. Trust and believe i play stam sorc to the few strengths it has. Not that it particularity has many. Honestly coming from the class it has good sustain. I can spec into higher damage and lower recovery because of dark deal. Nice. But what other strengths?

As i said in the first post, stam sorc used to have a few things going for it. Speed, mobility, best sustain in game, and a third bar. Now anyone can be fast with swift, streak is pretty useless considering the snare infestation in game, plus gap close, which makes the magicka not worth wasting, sustain is still the best, and the third bar is gone.

So what are we left with? What skills and passives? What combos can we create with them? What classes can we counter with them? We can build for high damage but still not have the same burst potential as stamblade, stamden, stamplar, and even stam dk with its corrosive popped...

I know what strengths and weaknesses the class has ive played it long enough. Thats not the point. Its not that you CANT build strong working with certain sets, weapon skills, or racial passives.. The point is what its lacking compared to other classes.

And its truly mind boggling that you would think hurricane is going to help more than shalks. Are you kidding me?? Where? lol.. Just go into cyrodil and look at the groups.. Ask yourself why there are an excess of stamina wardens and not many stam sorcs. And if you are talking solo then you're still wrong. Blowing up a few people with shalk-db-spin is more effective than hurricane-db-spin.. Come on.

So because you happen to see a lot of stam wardens stam sorc needs a buff? Really?

If thats what you got out of everything i said then im pretty sure that I cannot help you understand. That is so far from the point. What i was saying was a response to you saying "but in a pressure fight hurricane is going to be worth more damage at a lower cost." No. Wrong. Incorrect.

And then i said, ask yourself why there are so many stam wardens running around cyrodil with that combo.. If hurricane was better you would see waaaay more stam sorcs than you do. And why dont you go ahead and directly compare the classes. Buffs/debuffs, combos/counters, utility and damage skills/passives, strengths/weaknesses.. Let me know what you find.

Sorry, that was a simplified version of what I got. What I really understood from your blob was: blah, blah, blah, my life is not as easy as a stam warden or stam NB, so buff my class. Clearer now?

Seriously look at the tripe you wrote yourself:

eso_lags wrote: »

As i said in the first post, stam sorc used to have a few things going for it. Speed, mobility, best sustain in game, and a third bar. Now anyone can be fast with swift, streak is pretty useless considering the snare infestation in game, plus gap close, which makes the magicka not worth wasting, sustain is still the best, and the third bar is gone.

So what are we left with? What skills and passives? What combos can we create with them? What classes can we counter with them? We can build for high damage but still not have the same burst potential as stamblade, stamden, stamplar, and even stam dk with its corrosive popped...

I know what strengths and weaknesses the class has ive played it long enough. Thats not the point. Its not that you CANT build strong working with certain sets, weapon skills, or racial passives.. The point is what its lacking compared to other classes.

And its truly mind boggling that you would think hurricane is going to help more than shalks. Are you kidding me?? Where? lol.. Just go into cyrodil and look at the groups.. Ask yourself why there are an excess of stamina wardens and not many stam sorcs. And if you are talking solo then you're still wrong. Blowing up a few people with shalk-db-spin is more effective than hurricane-db-spin.. Come on.

1st paragraph, sorry I lol'd. [1] snares affect everyone. In fact, I would say streak is even more valuable with all the snares around, but whatever keep pretending its not. [2] In order to use swift you have to give something up and you can use it as well. [3] Why exactly should stam sorc have had a 3rd bar available in the first place? I don' t see why it should have existed in the first place and it being gone honestly means nothing to me.

2nd paragraph: you are left with what every other stam class is: weapon skills, bleed, SnB line, etc. which all happen to work extremely well on stam sorc, esp. with the passives. It's funny how you also ignore the passives that give cost reduction and recovery, then claim they are "lacking." Have you ever considered that ZOS refuses to give a burst skill because you have cost reduction, regen, and passive damage increases? Have you ever thought that you, yourself, can find the balance between those passives and damage? One thing you probably haven't considered is that the day ZOS introduces what you want, you will lose all of that or all of Cyrodil will be stam sorc.

3rd paragraph: --

4th: Look I'm no fan of stam wardens and I hope they get their nerf they deserve, but that's still a dumb comparison. All you have to do is simply roll or move to avoid shalks, which is not constantly on and can't passively proc damage equivalent to an execute like hurricane. I even avoid shalks with cloak; at least hurricane takes me out of stealth a second later provided I don't use invis pot right before getting uncloaked on my NB.

If you're talking about groups running in balls with shalks, blame ZOS' design philosophy with direct damage in this game: high damage, high scaling, low cost, good secondary effect(s), at the "cost" of them being supposedly dodgeable.

Either way, if anyone seriously thinks stam sorc is at the "bottom" in PvP, I can't take them seriously. I also can't take doublespeak seriously.

MaxJrFTW

eso_lags wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

L2p issue. Stamina sorcerers are in a very good spot.

Maybe someone like you with such knowledge and skill at the class, no the game, could enlighten me as to what i could do to get better. I've been waiting for someone like you to come along to help me. Thank god you are finally here. Ill be patiently waiting for your response.. Just a few tips and tricks for the common folk if you dont mind.

That's where you're mistaken, because nobody has any obligation to help you. It's your job to get better, not someone else's to make you better. Youtube, Google, Twitch, do your homework.