Eso, Gambling And You

MilwaukeeScott

Terms Of Service
"By using any ZeniMax Services, You affirm that (i) You are at least 18 years of age (or have reached the age of majority if that is not 18 years of age where You live)"

Unless the society you live in is run by religious leaders, you are surrounded by gambling.

In the USA where I live, we have a National Lottery. There are casinos spread throughout our country. I live within walking distance of one. Our TV and Radio airwaves are full of sports betting ads. My corner grocery store runs a weekly raffle as do most of your in game Guilds.

Again, you are surrounded by gambling.

Instead of closing your local casino or protesting Piggly Wigglys Turkey raffle, you chose to come to these forums and proclaim the end of civilization because a Frost Mount cost 600 gems.

This leads most of us to believe you are either very immature and are clueless to the happenings of the adult world or looking for a Soap Box issue because you need/like the attention. I tend to believe the latter.

I don't expect you to stop. I doubt very much that you could stop. You have already stated that you have little to no self control.

I just want you to understand how silly and childish most of us see you as.

Latios

Well, finally some want to see the light and speak about it.

As long as crates are cosmetic only, they can do whatever they want with it. I won't die because my mount doesn't spark and shine. And I'll farm in-game gold, or use my money, to get one if I want to do so. If you don't want to, that's fine as well, because we can and should do whatever we want with our money without people trash talking our actions.

May the whales fund the game if it comes to that. If you want something, paying is the price in our society.

Just imagine how irrational it would be to go inside a store and claim a piece of clothing is too expensive and the tag is abusive. Like, wtf?

Delsanab14_ESO

Gambling is only a thing because of lobbying and corruption. It's only a thing here because of laws that worship corporations and very few that protect people.

Though making light of addiction to gambling and the psychosomatic mechanics and reward systems that make people get addicted to these intentionally is highly inaccurate and cruel and makes those informed see YOU as the immature one.

ChunkyCat

I gamble every time I use the group finder.

I just sit there in the queue anxiously wondering “will my group mates know what they’re doing? Will my tank be using a bow and 2h? Will the healer be using vigor?”

It’s always a gamble with the group queue. Like one of those boxes chocolate.

Vuron

I'm not sure where you live in the US, but regardless of where it is, you dont have a national lottery. Maybe you're referring to Powerball or mega millions, but they aren't national.

redspecter23

Gambling is regulated and has rules.

Loot boxes are completely unregulated. No rules. No odds are required to be disclosed. Odds can be changed on a whim, without notice. Your chance of winning can be dynamic and change based on factors you don't even know about. Research has been done by companies that lets them know when they should LET you win so that you keep coming back for more.

I have no problem with legitimate gambling with actual rules. Loot boxes? That's just plain shady and will be until someone regulates it. If ZOS doesn't want to tell players the odds, I have to assume they are fixing the odds behind the scenes.

MartiniDaniels

Lol, it's hard to imagine to what bottom will fall gaming industry with such players like OP.
Problem is not about particular cat. Problem is in overpriced groups of pixels everywhere and that you need to get to roll a dice to get that cat.

Lemme put some simple math - you got 8-18 gems from crate at average (given that you already "won" all cosmetics). So let's call it 12 gems from crate, it will be 50 crates to get frost mount. It's 17k crowns ~ 100$ in my country's prices.
100$! for group of pixels, and a lot of people think this is alright.. it's not EA started this, people who bought all the overpriced cosmetics started this.

With such attitude in player base, things will be only worse with each year.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts, we must ask that all post be kept civil and constructive. Also, let us try to not get to political as discussing real world politics does go against our rules.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Tigerseye

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts, we must ask that all post be kept civil and constructive. Also, let us try to not get to political as discussing real world politics does go against our rules.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Then, quite frankly, you need to also remove parts of the OP, or close the thread entirely.

Because, parts of it are neither civil, nor constructive.

WhyMustItBe

OP post amounts to:

"Everyone else is doing it so why shouldn't we." That combined with "two wrongs obviously make a right."

The logic is flawed, and without getting into WHY predatory marketing practices are toxic for the gaming industry, which you clearly do not understand as evidenced by this post, there are very specific regulations required to run a real money gambling business which this company does NOT adhere to.

They attempt to circumvent regulation by claiming it is virtual currency, but that is an abstraction that doesn't hold up to the spirit of the law as countries like Beligum are beginning to establish. It is only a matter of time before even the United States catches up to the reality that allowing big companies to prey on gambling addiction is not automatically acceptable just because they generate the almighty dollar.

Bouldercleave

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Gambling is only a thing because of lobbying and corruption. It's only a thing here because of laws that worship corporations and very few that protect people.

Though making light of addiction to gambling and the psychosomatic mechanics and reward systems that make people get addicted to these intentionally is highly inaccurate and cruel and makes those informed see YOU as the immature one.

Gambling FAR pre-dates lobbying and in fact goes as far back as documented records. It has been around a LOT longer than anyone's soapbox...

mattaeus01b16_ESO

Heres your soapbox, OP

Bouldercleave

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

" It is only a matter of time before even the United States catches up to the reality that allowing big companies to prey on gambling addiction is not automatically acceptable just because they generate the almighty dollar.

Ever been to Vegas? Not likely to change any time soon I'm afraid. Gambling or games of chance will always be around.

WhyMustItBe

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Ever been to Vegas? Not likely to change any time soon I'm afraid. Gambling or games of chance will always be around.

You clearly missed this part:

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

...there are very specific regulations required to run a real money gambling business which this company does NOT adhere to.

I honestly don't comprehend why so many people in this community bend over backwards to mince words and twist logic just to apologize for a predatory marketing business. Frankly, I don't really care to understand.

myskyrim26

And I'll say it again: no one here cares about gambling. Not a single person. It is just a pretty nice excuse for whining: instead of "I can't afford that mount" they say "It is gambling! Sodome and Gommorah!"

The truth is: the people who yell about gambling just have no money to feast in a Crown Store. I can't afford a 600 gem mount, too. But wait - is it really that important?

Atypicalgal

ChunkyCat wrote: »

I gamble every time I use the group finder.

I just sit there in the queue anxiously wondering “will my group mates know what they’re doing? Will my tank be using a bow and 2h? Will the healer be using vigor?”

It’s always a gamble with the group queue. Like one of those boxes chocolate.

Life is like a box of chocolates

Tigerseye

Bouldercleave wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

" It is only a matter of time before even the United States catches up to the reality that allowing big companies to prey on gambling addiction is not automatically acceptable just because they generate the almighty dollar.

Ever been to Vegas? Not likely to change any time soon I'm afraid. Gambling or games of chance will always be around.

Once again, you are missing the point.

Unless they specifiy otherwise, no one is referring to gambling in general, here.

Everyone is, specifically, referrring to gambling boxes in games like this one.

Because this is the ESO forum and that is the, specific, topic of discussion.

Delsanab14_ESO

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Gambling is only a thing because of lobbying and corruption. It's only a thing here because of laws that worship corporations and very few that protect people.

Though making light of addiction to gambling and the psychosomatic mechanics and reward systems that make people get addicted to these intentionally is highly inaccurate and cruel and makes those informed see YOU as the immature one.

Gambling FAR pre-dates lobbying and in fact goes as far back as documented records. It has been around a LOT longer than anyone's soapbox...

It doesn't pre-date law and enforcement though. The concept of certain individuals looking the other way because of bribes also goes back a very very long way.

Delsanab14_ESO

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Ever been to Vegas? Not likely to change any time soon I'm afraid. Gambling or games of chance will always be around.

You clearly missed this part:

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

...there are very specific regulations required to run a real money gambling business which this company does NOT adhere to.

I honestly don't comprehend why so many people in this community bend over backwards to mince words and twist logic just to apologize for a predatory marketing business. Frankly, I don't really care to understand.

People are inherently selfish and unconcerned until something directly impacts them and instead of considering things on a wider scope they consider things in regards to their own affordability and access.

WhyMustItBe

myskyrim26 wrote: »

And I'll say it again: no one here cares about gambling. Not a single person. It is just a pretty nice excuse for whining: instead of "I can't afford that mount" they say "It is gabling! *** and Gommorah!"

The truth is: the people who yell about gambling just have no money to feast in a Crown Store. I can't afford a 600 gem mount, too. But wait - is it really that important?

Right. Because anyone that is against predatory marketing tactics exploiting gambling addiction MUST just be "whining because they can't afford things." Nice logic.

These topics should honestly just be closed by ZOS. The people who are against predatory marketing should write to their congressmen instead of preaching to the choir or trying to get a greedy business to see the error of their ways (news flash: greed has no conscience) and beyond that, I think it is just a big target which triggers people's compulsions to troll.

Not because they honestly believe predatory marketing is awesome, but because trolling makes them feel important.

Nothing productive will ever come from such a conversation.

Delsanab14_ESO

myskyrim26 wrote: »

And I'll say it again: no one here cares about gambling. Not a single person. It is just a pretty nice excuse for whining: instead of "I can't afford that mount" they say "It is gambling! Sodome and Gommorah!"

The truth is: the people who yell about gambling just have no money to feast in a Crown Store. I can't afford a 600 gem mount, too. But wait - is it really that important?

I care about anything that directly influences the mind for ill purposes or takes advantage of others via exploitation.

Given that brain science and psychology agree that a person is not an adult at 18 years old mentally as the brain has not stopped developing and is still easily shaped, and given that people have predispositions to gambling and are being preyed upon, then yes it's an issue.

Let's also not forget that games consult psychologists and science for the best ways to make them more addicting intentionally. The simple truth of addiction science is not something to disregard.

myskyrim26

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Right. Because anyone that is against predatory marketing tactics exploiting gambling addiction MUST just be "whining because they can't afford things." Nice logic.

Anyone who is againts something can just pass by. Cosmetics is not necessary to play ESO. You don't like the way it is sold? Pass by - that's simple.

WhyMustItBe

myskyrim26 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Right. Because anyone that is against predatory marketing tactics exploiting gambling addiction MUST just be "whining because they can't afford things." Nice logic.

Anyone who is againts something can just pass by. Cosmetics is not necessary to play ESO. You don't like the way it is sold? Pass by - that's simple.

What you are saying is basically the same as seeing someone on the street being mugged by a thief, and since it doesn't affect you personally, that you shouldn't be upset, call the police, or say anything at all. You should just walk on by.

Some people are concerned with things beyond their own self interest. Difficult as it is to understand I know.

Unit117

Gambling is a cancer in the gaming industry. Why y’all support leaving your purchases to chance instead of being able to purchase what you want is beyond me. I hear the dumbest arguments defending it.

Also cosmetics are the end game and enjoyable part of games for a lot of players. It’s not great for a company to ripoff it’s players.

NorthernNightmare

Heaven forbid we voice displeasure about a system in a game we paid for keep paying for (if youre eso+)

its not like we want the game to be better or anything

we're such entitled gamers

/s

OFFL1MIT

People as always mistake MMO with single player. They think that eso is like singleplayer where can you get everything you want, every mount, every skin, EVERYTHING. This is what happens in their head. Also they live in different world, or have dopamine levels screwed and buy this stuff to get more '' excited '' to feel happy again .

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

The fact that something exists doesn't mean it's legal or moral.
The fact that something is common or frequent doesn't mean that it should be that way or that people should just accept it. Also I had the impression that video games (also) existed so that people could get away from the real world and some of its problems. So because something exists in the real world doesn't mean it should exist in video games as well.
People that play and love video games don't want to see them become like their local casino and that's why they speak in these forums and in any other medium that promotes the exchange of ideas.

myskyrim26

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Right. Because anyone that is against predatory marketing tactics exploiting gambling addiction MUST just be "whining because they can't afford things." Nice logic.

Anyone who is againts something can just pass by. Cosmetics is not necessary to play ESO. You don't like the way it is sold? Pass by - that's simple.

What you are saying is basically the same as seeing someone on the street being mugged by a thief, and since it doesn't affect you personally, that you shouldn't be upset, call the police, or say anything at all. You should just walk on by.

Some people are concerned with things beyond their own self interest. Difficult as it is to understand I know.

Hah, ok... I only can affrod this: I pay for ESO+. Now I get my benefits including 1500 crowns. And now I buy Crown Crates. And I have costumes, and mounts, and pets and what not - all things I can't afford to by with my real money. So, who is concerned about just himself now? Maybe it's you? A lot of people enjoy crown crates. A lot of people even can't afford ESO+ and they watch streams for Ouroboros drops. And they are grateful for the opportunity to have gems. A lot of such people in my country. Majority of ESO players from my country, I should say.
And now what about you? How do you suffer so much because of crates?

Delsanab14_ESO

OFFL1MIT wrote: »

People as always mistake MMO with single player. They think that eso is like singleplayer where can you get everything you want, every mount, every skin, EVERYTHING. This is what happens in their head. Also they live in different world, or have dopamine levels screwed and buy this stuff to get more '' excited '' to feel happy again .

Your last line relates to intentionally designed addictive mechanics. It's a real thing, though more chemicals than that are being influenced.

You may not realize it but you're actually touching on what game companies, mobile game companies, and other types of reward-systems actually rely upon to get other people to do things. Hint, not everything happening to you is your own fault if someone else is trying to influence you with science.

Bruccius

People are being immature, no offense.

Tell me, oh anti-Crown Crate fanbase.
Are you aware that there is no gaurantee you will get the item you want from a Crown Crate?
Are you aware that it is not necessary to purchase a Crown Crate to play the game properly?
Are you aware that it is your personal choice to spend money on Crown Crates?
Are you aware that the only reason ridiculous prices exist is because people are willing to pay for it?

Rather than pointing the finger at ZOS, why not take a look at yourself?

All four of these questions should be answered with a solid ''Yes'' if you're being objective.

Everyone knows Crown Crates have no gauranteed items - So why blame ZOS if you don't get the specific item you want?
Everyone knows that Crown Crates largely provide cosmetics - So why blame ZOS for puting a price on something irrelevant?
Everyone knows that it is you who purchases the Crate, not ZOS - So why blame ZOS for puting them in the game?
Everyone knows that without anyone buying them at these prices, the price would go down - So why blame ZOS for puting the price at such a level it makes them the most profit?

People need to realize that ESO has servers which cost money to keep up. Money has to come from somewhere. New DLC and other content has to come from somewhere, and all of that costs money. That one time purchase of the game is something, but turns irrelevant in the long term. They keep pushing out things, and they will continue to do so at prices which makes them the most money. If the price is outrageous they wouldn't keep it as high; as nobody would buy it, refer to question four.

To end this little rant, if you don't want to pay 600 Crowns for it, just get some self control and say ''No. I won't buy it.'', if others are willing to spend those 600 Crowns for it, let them. It's irrational to demand a price be lowered if the item itself is not necessary to play the game properly.

Hoolielulu

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Frankly, I don't really care to understand.

And this is why these sorts of threads will never be productive, change anyone's minds, or influence a company.