Sorcerer's execute under-performing

Pdoherty4637_ESO

I'm not sure if anyone else feels the same way or has noticed, but Endless Fury/Mages Wrath feels very ineffective ever since the Wolfhunter/Murkmire patch. I am aware that both the damage and the execute debuff are now dodgable on live, but the interaction between this skill and roll-dodge is awful, hitting a roll dodge-chaining enemy with this ability is impossible (not to mention not weaving well) and the ability seems to sometimes just be sucked into the ether and not fire at all (yes i'm aware it can be cleansed and am not talking about those cases). For what its worth, I see no change whatsoever in the projectile/roll dodge interaction that was supposedly changed in murkmire. When the skill does go off it does not feel impactful whatsoever, and usually does not score the killing blow even though i'm not aware of the damage being reduced in recent patches, it just feels weak. Just today i had a battlegrounds match with 19 kills, and not a single KB was from endless fury, and I was actively trying to execute with it. I run admittedly middling offensive stats at ~2500 spell damage and ~32000 magicka (in no-cp) but I do not think my modest stats are the issue here as they haven't changed much patch to patch. Is anyone else experiencing frustrations with this skill?

Vapirko

You mean its working like a normal execute instead of the OP, KB stealer it was? I still get hit with it regularly, about the same as I get hit with any other execute.

Koolio

You should try impale in PvP. It’s impossible to use on console.

Savos_Saren

Yeah. Mine too.
-mDK

Pdoherty4637_ESO

I'm aware it was a kill stealer, and am not denying that or urging the return to that garbage playstle. However, it's just not effective in it's current state. And that is excatly my issue. I don't want it to be OP. Radiant oppression can't be roll dodged, executioner will hit in between roll dodges eventually and hits MUCH harder than endless fury, steel tornado goes through roll dodge, is aoe, and procs both DW enchants on a non-melee ability. For what it's worth, in my experience, impale is much easier to land on dodging targets, and poison injection works as intended. So my point is, I'm not finding endless fury effective at all, and I don't find myself thinking of swapping off of ANY other class or weapon execute because it just isn't doing it's job: securing the killing blow. As an aside; My mDK doesn't really feel the need for an execute
as is, and if ZOS changed an ability to create one, I would have trouble finding a bar slot for it, and with vampires everywhere in pvp it feels like all fire damage is execute damage (that said I am in favor of having the option for one anyway for those who want to build that way).

Sanctum74

Works fine, it's just not a traditional execute so you can't use it as such. If you're waiting till they are in execute range and then spamming it then the skill delay will make it useless.

It has a 4 second delay window and curse is 3.5 seconds so time your burst around that then fury, curse, reach, frags, and hopefully implosion will also proc at the same time for a nice burst.

susmitds

Oh boy, you have no idea how ridiculous it is in PvP. It is still the kill steal bot skill it is. Dodging only helps when you are in clear sight, not when the sorc is spamming it on everything that moves while they are busy fighting others. Never use it like other executes, use it before the enemy is in execute range, even full health, so that you can grab the kill without doing a damn thing when they are finally low HP.

Pdoherty4637_ESO

I've been playing sorcerer since beta and know how the skill is fundamentally supposed to work, but the flow of combat is a complex beast and in a fast paced combat game like ESO in a faced paced enviroent like Battlegrounds (which is where I said I was having issues, not cyrodiil zergs with 7 sorcs spamming from 28m away) that the skill is too difficult to hit and use effectively, does not seem to be following projectile or beam mechanics for player targeting, and the damage is lagging behind other executes. You point out I shouldn't be spamming the execute on a low health target but instead be bursting them with timed damage. I do this. However as stated in the original comment, the skill just disappears into the ether or simply does not kill the target. What then? This is the situation in find myself in over and over again post-murkmire. It just isn't getting the job done and cannot easily be double casted/weaved if a single cast (properly used in advance) does not do the job. I play every class magicka and stamina and I promise I am not just speaking from a "why isnt my precious baby sorc the king of KBs anymore" I would just like to see the skill have some minor adjustment to perform on par with the other class and weapon executes.

Lord-Otto

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Works fine, it's just not a traditional execute so you can't use it as such. If you're waiting till they are in execute range and then spamming it then the skill delay will make it useless.

It has a 4 second delay window and curse is 3.5 seconds so time your burst around that then fury, curse, reach, frags, and hopefully implosion will also proc at the same time for a nice burst.

Other way round: Curse, Fury, Reach, Frags.
GCD is a second, so Fury will wear off half a second before Curse impact if you cast it first.

frostz417

Is this bait? Endless fury underperforming???? Are you kidding me? 90% of my recaps in PvP are endless fury or implosion. If anything readjust the trash ass skill so it’s not some stupid delay proc bs execute. I’d much rather have it operate as a normal execute instead of a stupid no skill delay proc. Same with implosion.

Ragnarock41

Pdoherty4637_ESO wrote: »

hitting a roll dodge-chaining enemy with this ability is impossible

You're gonna have to watch for dodge rolls, oh no! what a nightmare!

Pdoherty4637_ESO

What competant enemy sits there like a skeleton dummy and let's you get that combo off without LOS, counter stun/burst or reflect/absorb or just straight up blocking the frag and reach ruining the combo? Sure sorc burst is great for ruining a new players day and making them never want to play BGs again, but I don't play those types of players in my matches. I'm sorry but if you still subscribe to the "just set up your burst combo properly and L2P, you'll be fine" or are just here to say "OMG are you kidding me I die a lot to this skill in cyrodill" please don't bother commenting. I'm looking to see if any other experienced sorcerer has noticed a lack of effectiveness in this skill because of a slower than normal response time, randomly not firing when it should, and failure to kill the target after Wolfhunter/Murkmire. If I really am alone in this, fine, but that doesn't change that, for me, it's performing so poorly that I'm looking for a replacement skill. That hasn't ever been the case in the 4 years I've been playing sorcerer.

Sanctum74

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Works fine, it's just not a traditional execute so you can't use it as such. If you're waiting till they are in execute range and then spamming it then the skill delay will make it useless.

It has a 4 second delay window and curse is 3.5 seconds so time your burst around that then fury, curse, reach, frags, and hopefully implosion will also proc at the same time for a nice burst.

Other way round: Curse, Fury, Reach, Frags.
GCD is a second, so Fury will wear off half a second before Curse impact if you cast it first.

Sorry my skill order was off, too much wine last night

Kikke

People have obvious bias against sorcs because ZOS decided to make a lack luster scoring system in BGs. Untill this is fixed people will say " Sorc OP!" in chorus...

I mean, shields got Destroyed. But there still are people that cannot kill a sorc. It's amazing just how BAD the playerbase is. Even most capped players have no clue on simple game mechanics.

Raids in this game is by far the easiest compared to other MMOs, still the playerbase says its impossible.

Dont try to reason with em, they to bad to understand anyway. LoL.

WitchyWarrior

Pdoherty4637_ESO wrote: »

What competant enemy sits there like a skeleton dummy and let's you get that combo off without LOS, counter stun/burst or reflect/absorb or just straight up blocking the frag and reach ruining the combo? Sure sorc burst is great for ruining a new players day and making them never want to play BGs again, but I don't play those types of players in my matches. I'm sorry but if you still subscribe to the "just set up your burst combo properly and L2P, you'll be fine" or are just here to say "OMG are you kidding me I die a lot to this skill in cyrodill" please don't bother commenting. I'm looking to see if any other experienced sorcerer has noticed a lack of effectiveness in this skill because of a slower than normal response time, randomly not firing when it should, and failure to kill the target after Wolfhunter/Murkmire. If I really am alone in this, fine, but that doesn't change that, for me, it's performing so poorly that I'm looking for a replacement skill. That hasn't ever been the case in the 4 years I've been playing sorcerer.

Unfortunately a lot of people that are vocal on these forums also seem to HATE Sorcs so it will be next to impossible to actually get a quality discussion on your topic.
The hate that some players have for Sorcs in this game is weird.
The fact that ZOS seems to listen to loud mouths who most likely have never actually played a Sorc than actual Sorc players is confusing to me. I guess if you cry & whine long & loud enough.....

Since Murkmire, ALL my skills are screwy so I can't specifically say, for me, that Fury is less effective.
There is delay when my skills go off, some times a key won't register so I hit it again and then the skill goes off twice which REALLY upsets me because a lot of the times it's curse so it doesn't go off when I was hoping it would. When seconds count it can mess things up. Plus other annoying issues that I am now experiencing since the day Murkmire was released.
I don't know what they did with that update, but it messed up A LOT of basic things in the game. Hopefully they can get it figured out.
And hopefully they can stop messing with Sorcs for a while & stop bowing down to the people who get upset because a Sorc hurt them.

Lord-Otto

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Works fine, it's just not a traditional execute so you can't use it as such. If you're waiting till they are in execute range and then spamming it then the skill delay will make it useless.

It has a 4 second delay window and curse is 3.5 seconds so time your burst around that then fury, curse, reach, frags, and hopefully implosion will also proc at the same time for a nice burst.

Other way round: Curse, Fury, Reach, Frags.
GCD is a second, so Fury will wear off half a second before Curse impact if you cast it first.

Sorry my skill order was off, too much wine last night

Red one, I hope!
(^.^)

Arkangeloski

.

bardx86

I'm glad someone brought this up. The skill is broken. Been playing since beta and something has changed. It will cast but not land on the target. It just disappears and this is on a non-dodging target. I have to cast it like 3 times in a row to get it to land. ITS BROKEN!

TrinityBreaker

Yo can I get one?
-DK

bardx86

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Works fine, it's just not a traditional execute so you can't use it as such. If you're waiting till they are in execute range and then spamming it then the skill delay will make it useless.

It has a 4 second delay window and curse is 3.5 seconds so time your burst around that then fury, curse, reach, frags, and hopefully implosion will also proc at the same time for a nice burst.

It doesn't work fine. It doesn't land on target correctly anymore.

Pdoherty4637_ESO

Good to know at least some other people are noticing this and I'm not crazy

Sanctum74

bardx86 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Works fine, it's just not a traditional execute so you can't use it as such. If you're waiting till they are in execute range and then spamming it then the skill delay will make it useless.

It has a 4 second delay window and curse is 3.5 seconds so time your burst around that then fury, curse, reach, frags, and hopefully implosion will also proc at the same time for a nice burst.

It doesn't work fine. It doesn't land on target correctly anymore.

Same can be said for every targeting skill in the game on every class, it's called lag.

cbritomiranda

Endless Fury/Mages Wrath is not spamable, like a Nightblade Killer's Blade. They do a good damage? Yes, but only when the passive Implosion procs.
This is just one of the cons that magsorcs has

Biro123

Skill is garbage now outside of BG's.. I no longer slot it.

Some executes are dodgeable. Some not. Some are pre-castable (and purgeable), some not. Some have a high execute threshold, some don't. Some have high damage, some don't.

I think this is the only execute in game that gives 2 chances to dodge, is purgeable, low damage and has a really low threshold..

Krayl

Oh good more sorc complaints.

I play a mag DK, be cool to have some kind of execute, but yeah too bad about endless fury but also sorcs have a free passive execute to basically all their damage so. . .

KlotePino

Since this seems to be what you want to hear anyone say: 'Yes we noticed it, yes it sucks..'

Happy?

f047ys3v3n

WitchyWarrior wrote: »

Since Murkmire, ALL my skills are screwy so I can't specifically say, for me, that Fury is less effective.
There is delay when my skills go off, some times a key won't register so I hit it again and then the skill goes off twice which REALLY upsets me because a lot of the times it's curse so it doesn't go off when I was hoping it would. When seconds count it can mess things up. Plus other annoying issues that I am now experiencing since the day Murkmire was released.
I don't know what they did with that update, but it messed up A LOT of basic things in the game. Hopefully they can get it figured out.
And hopefully they can stop messing with Sorcs for a while & stop bowing down to the people who get upset because a Sorc hurt them.

I have had this issue as well. In addition to this, the targeting seems even worse than before and targeted skills not going off because the enemy you started the cast on was occluded by second enemy (alive or dead) was already a huge problem. Getting my frags or curse to fire in PVE is a big problem and a huge dps loss. Often, in trash mobs, I get less than one activation per 4 casts. You may be having this problem with wrath as it is targeted as well. This may simply be the same targeting problem as before compounded by the added travel time on the skills that was apparently needed to make sure no magica toons every beat a stam toon in PVP.

You mentioned roll dodging enemies being a big problem to the point that you basically can never hit them. Roll dodge, does not appear to me to have actually undergone the nerf in the notes. People still seem to be getting passive dodge of attacks that were cast after the roll dodge. This basically allowing builds to roll dodge on the cost increase cooldown and be immune to all targeted damage about 75% of the time. I don't think any actual change to the skill occurred. Of course, roll dodges are still hugely over-performing as they are effectively the BIS skill for defense and they don't even require a bar slot. ZOS might actually consider creating a roll dodge skill and requiring it to be slotted or else having roll dodge consume magica instead of stam for those with a higher mag pool. Right now you would be a fool to play mag in PVP as it was already weaker before it's best defense, in shields, was reduced by 1/2 to 2/3rds.

As for the sorc execute, I don't play enough PVP to have a good opinion on if it hits hard enough there given the value of it's auto-proc nature. I do know that in PVE it would not even be strong enough to slot if sorcs had enough magica to sustain a light rotation between DOT applications and they are nowhere near having the resources for that.

Murkmie was yet another terrible patch in terms of combat balance and enjoy-ability with my targeted abilities having even more issues actually firing and the shield nerf basically requiring me to slot a skill that I feel is very under-powered for the cost. As much as I would like the drop the shield, the interplay between the realities of the mechanics, dps checks, the health / damage trade off, and group healer composition, do not make that remotely possible. Bottom line, changes on the combat team have been in order for a long time and are still desperately needed. If the Browns can change their coach and QB and go from 1 win in 2 years to an outside shot of the playoffs maybe ZOS can fire the Wobbler and at least get to a first win in 1.5 years when it comes to combat balance, enjoyment, and skills actually firing after a patch.

ESO_Nightingale

yeah same i know that feel, bear is *** and our only execute and viable ultimate in pve. XD

Liofa

*cries in magdk*

WildWilbur

bardx86 wrote: »

Been playing since beta and something has changed.

I surely hope something has changed since beta...

Beardimus

I think bringing BG into the conversation loses your point as people hate on the skill there for the KB aspect.

but to your point, have the recent changes made it feel rough - yes.