BGs right now

Urvoth

Every game feels like slogging through a mudpit with how bad aoe snares and stuns are.

[Minor title edit.]

Kel

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/447939/bg-pvp-has-turned-into-complete-garbage-no-skill-spam-aoe-spam-time-stop-spam-immobs-snares#latest

Thogard

Is this a console thing? I’m really not running into this on pc NA

Waffennacht

Thogard wrote: »

Is this a console thing? I’m really not running into this on pc NA

It is on console, but rather rare (imo). There's a few groups, but I only run into them a few times.

Prob is when you get stuck lining up against em time and time again. I usually smoke while that happens to hopefully get matched up with someone different

Urvoth

Thogard wrote: »

Is this a console thing? I’m really not running into this on pc NA

No, on PC NA. Ice wardens dominating everything melee and even other mag classes are back barring frost staves. It has really picked up over the past week, I didn't notice it too much say 2-4 weeks ago.

ccmedaddy

As someone who's been running a frost staff warden since CWC I'm disgusted by how popular it's becoming.

I guess I should go find another weird build to feel ~special~.

Kartalin

It’s not weird or special if everyone and their cat is running it.

Did a BG last night and each of the other teams had 1-2 people running it. Every time I did die it was because I was stuck in some ice BS.

CatchMeTrolling

It’s complaining about things that make more people run things that are being complained about.

brandonv516

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

It’s complaining about things that make more people run things that are being complained about.

Yeah I'll be honest the whole snare/cc hype inspired me to get my Warden in line with the the crowd!

Waffennacht

Funny that it becomes popular in the dlc after I stopped running it.

But I see a lot of: wings, purge, shuffle, FM, cloak, streak, shade to make it not as effective.

But didn't everyone know this was coming with the Swift Nerf + immunity Nerfs?

PhoenixGrey

Urvoth wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Is this a console thing? I’m really not running into this on pc NA

No, on PC NA. Ice wardens dominating everything melee and even other mag classes are back barring frost staves. It has really picked up over the past week, I didn't notice it too much say 2-4 weeks ago.

I can't really blame them if they want to be relevant. If they dont, their death recaps will only read oblivion damage and bleeds.

JusticeSouldier

Thogard wrote: »

Is this a console thing? I’m really not running into this on pc NA

As not console player can say the same.
For certain classes, as nightblades, sorcerers and wardens in heavy and light there are any good options to do against.
There are only 2 bad magicka options to counter snares - very expencive and removing from u only 2 effects [so nothing] Effective [cool joke to call it effective] Purge and vampire cloud [everyone should be vampire?].
And 1 option stamina forward momentum...garbage. and actually during these 4 seconds some things anyway snare you.
I hate work devs done on that. There are no options for these classes to enjoy the fight.
Or you snared as turtle, or ugly piece of undead, or magicka blade/sorc/warden with 2hander, who's damage is low af and nothing vs organized groups especially.
And i don't see even class reps understand this. Isn't this obvious thing to think about and add active different for each class options to counter snares and roots?

CatchMeTrolling

brandonv516 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

It’s complaining about things that make more people run things that are being complained about.

Yeah I'll be honest the whole snare/cc hype inspired me to get my Warden in line with the the crowd!

That’s usually how it works, everyone wants to see what’s the hype about. Not to say they’re not an issue but it further exuberate the problem.

Now you have people playing wardens just because. The main issue is snares and roots which every player has access to. The only difference is wardens get a damage buff to ice. The cc they have is only available during ults which can be completely wasted if your team doesn’t capitalize on it. Not to mention, cc’s are terrible in general and I think magdks excel the best at the root/snare/cc gameplay. Which is a big reason for the influx of dks.

wheem_ESO

I don't think that the snare on Wall of Frost is a problem, but the roots from a Charged staff (especially with multiple, layered Walls) are definitely over the top. And contrary to what some people seem to think, this is not a Warden problem; any class with Wall of Frost and a Charged weapon can get a crazy amount of roots going (even a Stamina build, if they really wanted to).

While it's true that a Warden dropping Winter's Revenge on people will get an extra chance to trigger the Chilled effect, in a 6m radius, that's really not needed at all. Any class can get plenty of Chilled "procs" from Wall + Charged weapon (and you can optionally layer on a Frost enchant, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...for extra chances at Chilled).

Thogard

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I don't think that the snare on Wall of Frost is a problem, but the roots from a Charged staff (especially with multiple, layered Walls) are definitely over the top. And contrary to what some people seem to think, this is not a Warden problem; any class with Wall of Frost and a Charged weapon can get a crazy amount of roots going (even a Stamina build, if they really wanted to).

While it's true that a Warden dropping Winter's Revenge on people will get an extra chance to trigger the Chilled effect, in a 6m radius, that's really not needed at all. Any class can get plenty of Chilled "procs" from Wall + Charged weapon (and you can optionally layer on a Frost enchant, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...for extra chances at Chilled).

Are you seeing these builds a lot in the higher MMR matches? I’ll see them occasionally as premades that get bumped up to the tougher matches simply because they’re premades... but those builds tend to be immobile and get their kills stolen. Probably great at chaos ball and CTR though.

wheem_ESO

Thogard wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I don't think that the snare on Wall of Frost is a problem, but the roots from a Charged staff (especially with multiple, layered Walls) are definitely over the top. And contrary to what some people seem to think, this is not a Warden problem; any class with Wall of Frost and a Charged weapon can get a crazy amount of roots going (even a Stamina build, if they really wanted to).

While it's true that a Warden dropping Winter's Revenge on people will get an extra chance to trigger the Chilled effect, in a 6m radius, that's really not needed at all. Any class can get plenty of Chilled "procs" from Wall + Charged weapon (and you can optionally layer on a Frost enchant, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...for extra chances at Chilled).

Are you seeing these builds a lot in the higher MMR matches? I’ll see them occasionally as premades that get bumped up to the tougher matches simply because they’re premades... but those builds tend to be immobile and get their kills stolen. Probably great at chaos ball and CTR though.

I don't see it as often as some people seem to be claiming, but it's increasing in popularity. For a while, it seemed like I was the only person in the higher MMR brackets on PC-NA that was using an Ice Staff (albeit without a Charged weapon), but now I'm seeing them more and more. There's a premade that I've encountered several times lately that uses 2 or 3 people running Ice staves, and a Mag Sorc spamming Encase (who seems to get most of their damage from Overload Heavy Attacks during burst windows).

Being a solo queued Magicka Warden in that situation is incredibly boring, since shalks become mostly useless, and my offense is borderline useless without them. That said, I think a properly built premade team could probably do really well against them, since they were mostly sorta squishy. Being chain rooted for the entire match is irritating, and overpowered, but it's still not worse than being stacked with bleeds and Dawnbreaker bombed by other premades.

Urvoth

Thogard wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I don't think that the snare on Wall of Frost is a problem, but the roots from a Charged staff (especially with multiple, layered Walls) are definitely over the top. And contrary to what some people seem to think, this is not a Warden problem; any class with Wall of Frost and a Charged weapon can get a crazy amount of roots going (even a Stamina build, if they really wanted to).

While it's true that a Warden dropping Winter's Revenge on people will get an extra chance to trigger the Chilled effect, in a 6m radius, that's really not needed at all. Any class can get plenty of Chilled "procs" from Wall + Charged weapon (and you can optionally layer on a Frost enchant, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...for extra chances at Chilled).

Are you seeing these builds a lot in the higher MMR matches? I’ll see them occasionally as premades that get bumped up to the tougher matches simply because they’re premades... but those builds tend to be immobile and get their kills stolen. Probably great at chaos ball and CTR though.

They're all over the higher MMR matches.

kaevix

Urvoth wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I don't think that the snare on Wall of Frost is a problem, but the roots from a Charged staff (especially with multiple, layered Walls) are definitely over the top. And contrary to what some people seem to think, this is not a Warden problem; any class with Wall of Frost and a Charged weapon can get a crazy amount of roots going (even a Stamina build, if they really wanted to).

While it's true that a Warden dropping Winter's Revenge on people will get an extra chance to trigger the Chilled effect, in a 6m radius, that's really not needed at all. Any class can get plenty of Chilled "procs" from Wall + Charged weapon (and you can optionally layer on a Frost enchant, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Elemental Weapon, etc...for extra chances at Chilled).

Are you seeing these builds a lot in the higher MMR matches? I’ll see them occasionally as premades that get bumped up to the tougher matches simply because they’re premades... but those builds tend to be immobile and get their kills stolen. Probably great at chaos ball and CTR though.

They're all over the higher MMR matches.

Good luck on the grounds fellow Vestige!

frostz417

Snares and roots need a cooldown. It’s insane how easily they’re used and able to be spammed with little counterplay available.

Katheriah

Sounds annoying. I'm gonna get the dust of 1 of the wardens and give it a frost staff. Just because.

wheem_ESO

Wall of Frost is a 60% snare that lasts for 8 seconds on a particular - relatively narrow - area of the ground. Caltrops and Templar Rituals are 30% snares in a much larger area for a longer duration, with the first 3 seconds of Caltrops being upgraded to a 70% snare if you're in the area when it's thrown down. Then we have the ubiquitous Rending Slashes that snares for 50% (while doing significant damage) and can't be avoided with a small amount of movement (or large amount of movement, as is the case with Caltrops or Ritual). Finally there's Stampede, which offers the same 60% snare over 8 seconds that Wall of Frost has, but can't be moved out of.

Why is the snare only a problem on Wall of Frost, and not these other sources? Why should it always be the case that Stam classes get access to both better snares and better snare removal than Magicka classes do, while also maintaining spammable gap closers? Especially when that gap closer is capable of snaring for the same amount as Wall of Frost, while not being countered by minimal movement.

As I stated previously, Charged weapons make the root procs on Wall of Frost get really ridiculous, but that's actually worse for Magicka classes than for Stamina ones. Even Magicka Templars have issues in that case, since you'll often just get immediately re-rooted after the cleanse. Dodge Rolling and Mist Forming are the best counters, but the first will very quickly eat up a Magicka build's limited Stam pool, and the second requires a bar slot, losing Mag regen, and taking +25% fire damage from all sources.

Skoomah

Aren’t you the same forum posters that demanded nerfs to sources of speed?

So what do you want? Everyone just walk around normal speed and all forms of stun and snare removed from the game?

Ice staves and Wardens have been around for years now. People just found an effective way to use them.

Just range down or position yourself away from the ice stuff. It’s not that hard. Just take a second before running head first into a ball group.

Group vs group with each one with a healer, you survive this stuff just fine. There’s way more strategy and tactics involved than just some ice stuff on the ground.

ccmedaddy

They could probably reduce the snare on Frost Blockade to something like 30% and it'd still be one of the most overloaded skills in the game tbh.

Haashhtaag

BGs are working as intended.

mursie

The issue is more premades than ice wardens and snares.

A random ice warden player queing solo will have a largely miserable time gathering few kills and generally slowing down/rooting groups of players with blockade and permafrost only to see his random pug group rarely capitalize on those efforts.

A premade on the other hand, utilizes this control to perfection. The truth of the matter - the premade would have wiped you regardless of what toon they played. At the moment, given the outcome of murkmire nerfs to snare immunity, the flavor of the week for premades is ice warden. And as a result - a cumbersome feeling to many pugs that it is Overpowered.

Again - that same premade could choose to spam caltrops, or fossilize, or time stop, or draining shot - and we'd all be on here complaining about how debilitating that is while being rather silent on the ice warden.

Premades utilize coordination. They could coordinate to kill you with flurry if they wanted too, but the ice meta is particularly convenient to use at the moment and thus is the flavor.

my two cents. See you next week when the premade groups switch to the next flavor and we can discuss how over preforming that is.

In some sense - the changes are working. Prior to murkmire stam was undoubtedly the #1 preferred setup. Speed via swift and pots etc... was KING. now - with changes to added, groups are running mag toons with ice warden snares. and counters to that have crept up like thogard's full mag sorc kite and burst group utilizing streak for mobility. If you were looking for a way to counteract the predominance of stamina - the devs would have to look at the latest developments since murkmire as a success. they did in fact achieve more mag toon presence with their changes.

is it good for the game? can't say. Did it shift the meta? appears to have. am I out of questions now? ......

Get_Packed

Complaining about blockade is really a l2p issue.

JusticeSouldier

Get_Packed wrote: »

Complaining about blockade is really a l2p issue.

that guy wrote about blockade as one of many sources of nonstop snare.
the main problem - snares everywhere. but counterplay vs them...it's ridiculous

Urvoth

Skoomah wrote: »

Aren’t you the same forum posters that demanded nerfs to sources of speed?

So what do you want? Everyone just walk around normal speed and all forms of stun and snare removed from the game?

Ice staves and Wardens have been around for years now. People just found an effective way to use them.

Just range down or position yourself away from the ice stuff. It’s not that hard. Just take a second before running head first into a ball group.

Group vs group with each one with a healer, you survive this stuff just fine. There’s way more strategy and tactics involved than just some ice stuff on the ground.

I never had a problem with the speed meta. It was way better than the slugfest we have right now imo.

Urvoth

Get_Packed wrote: »

Complaining about blockade is really a l2p issue.

It's not just blockade, it's aoe snares in general. Blockade is just one of the common ones being used now.

Get_Packed

Urvoth wrote: »

Get_Packed wrote: »

Complaining about blockade is really a l2p issue.

It's not just blockade, it's aoe snares in general. Blockade is just one of the common ones being used now.

Yes but lumping a ground based aoe that cannot be cast at range like Time Stop is ridculous.

Get_Packed

Urvoth wrote: »

Get_Packed wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Get_Packed wrote: »

Complaining about blockade is really a l2p issue.

It's not just blockade, it's aoe snares in general. Blockade is just one of the common ones being used now.

Yes but lumping a ground based aoe that cannot be cast at range like Time Stop is ridculous.

No it's not, they're all aoe CC abilities. It's the combination and group spam of them that makes them cancerous.

If you dont have the situational awareness or ability to avoid blockade then🤷‍♂️ . You must be playing with the mindset of a PVE tank.