Draining Shot

valsirenn

but then how am I supposed to keep myself alive from the flag guards

WaltherCarraway

I was draining shot into another dude's fossilize

Solariken

[Quoted post has been removed.]

I don't understand why you think it's ok that this game allows for builds/combos that instantly delete most players but get all cranky about a CC that takes up to one second to break.

TheYKcid

Anyone still defending this skill should be aware that you're tossing away a lot of your personal credibility. It's the same thing we see every patch. People saying Viper was fine. Sload's was fine. Torug's Enchants were fine. Yadda yadda.

In all those past cases, there was blindingly clear evidence about the content in question being WAY out of whack—but we still had a select handful of individuals who seemed to think prancing onto the forums and swearing that everything was all good and dandy would magically make devs and players alike forget their woes and move on, leaving them to continue abusing the crutches they've grown to love and rely on.

Do you guys ever learn?

Right now we have multiple clear, documented bugs with this skill:

• Cannot break the knockback
• Attempting to break during the knockback puts you on cooldown, meaning the hard CC becomes unbreakable
• Knockback doesn't apply CC if the caster LOS' or gets CC'd—leaving the target open to multiple CCs subsequently

These are known facts, and no amount of misdirection and smokescreens on your part is going to dissuade others of them.

You're just ensuring no one takes you seriously in future discussion.

del9

@Solariken Not only are you defending a bug, but you are telling people to L2P against a bug that specifically rprevents counterplay. And calling me cranky now?

Also Please stop with your strawmans about other CC skills and fast killing builds. None of them are relevant to this bug.

Irylia

Gone are the days of interactive combat.

Zergs spam timestop and scattershot on you and will only confront and chase you when numbers are clearly in their favor. Their Confidence increases as more players of their faction add on to the already disproportionate fight.

Ill add a clip later to show what I mean.

ATomiX96

^ this

ATomiX96

I couldnt even capture all of em, just made highly professional mspaint edits so it cant fall under naming and shaming.
According to a member in my group which had the addon which shows how many people are in your proximity it was 25+ ad.

Zeromaz

I’ve never not been able to break this CC. Either people are jumping on coat tails of others who say its broken or it must be a rare occassion.

This thread only makes me want to use this ability more just to annoy all of you

Solariken

del9 wrote: »

@Solariken Not only are you defending a bug, but you are telling people to L2P against a bug that specifically rprevents counterplay. And calling me cranky now?

Also Please stop with your strawmans about other CC skills and fast killing builds. None of them are relevant to this bug.

@del9 and others here's the thing:

There is zero evidence that the normal function of this skill is bugged in any way. The CC portion of the skill has been exactly the same since day 1. The only thing they changed is projectile range.

In fact I would argue that the skill functions 100% as intended. Look at it like this:

The vast majority of ranged skills are dodgeable, reflectable, and blockable. Landing a hard CC is the only window a ranged build has to secure a follow-up. It also happens that the main spammable for bow has a 1.1 second cast time. Without a proper CC like DShot, landing a follow-up and securing a kill would be impossible. The knockback is also important because increasing distance is the only way bow skills deal respectable damage.

So please tell me more about how this skill prevents counterplay? A dodgeable/blockable/reflectable projectile with a conditional heal that does terrible damage. How can you say that with a straight face?

Solariken

TheYKcid wrote: »

Anyone still defending this skill should be aware that you're tossing away a lot of your personal credibility. It's the same thing we see every patch. People saying Viper was fine. Sload's was fine. Torug's Enchants were fine. Yadda yadda.

In all those past cases, there was blindingly clear evidence about the content in question being WAY out of whack—but we still had a select handful of individuals who seemed to think prancing onto the forums and swearing that everything was all good and dandy would magically make devs and players alike forget their woes and move on, leaving them to continue abusing the crutches they've grown to love and rely on.

Do you guys ever learn?

Right now we have multiple clear, documented bugs with this skill:

• Cannot break the knockback
• Attempting to break during the knockback puts you on cooldown, meaning the hard CC becomes unbreakable
• Knockback doesn't apply CC if the caster LOS' or gets CC'd—leaving the target open to multiple CCs subsequently

These are known facts, and no amount of misdirection and smokescreens on your part is going to dissuade others of them.

You're just ensuring no one takes you seriously in future discussion.

@TheYKcid I say this with love, but let's not forget which side of the Rune Cage fence you were on when that was the most OP CC in the game by a country mile.

TheYKcid

Oh I used the *** out of it during Summerset. It was nice to have Sorcs on top for a patch.

I never claimed it was fine, though, and openly admitted it was overtuned to anyone who asked.

It got nerfed (overly so, I still maintain) and we moved along. I do fine without it, as should the players using Draining Shot once it gets fixed unless, of course, they WERE actually crutching on the skill's brokeness, and can't cope without it.

GeneralSezme

Solariken wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Anyone still defending this skill should be aware that you're tossing away a lot of your personal credibility. It's the same thing we see every patch. People saying Viper was fine. Sload's was fine. Torug's Enchants were fine. Yadda yadda.

In all those past cases, there was blindingly clear evidence about the content in question being WAY out of whack—but we still had a select handful of individuals who seemed to think prancing onto the forums and swearing that everything was all good and dandy would magically make devs and players alike forget their woes and move on, leaving them to continue abusing the crutches they've grown to love and rely on.

Do you guys ever learn?

Right now we have multiple clear, documented bugs with this skill:

• Cannot break the knockback
• Attempting to break during the knockback puts you on cooldown, meaning the hard CC becomes unbreakable
• Knockback doesn't apply CC if the caster LOS' or gets CC'd—leaving the target open to multiple CCs subsequently

These are known facts, and no amount of misdirection and smokescreens on your part is going to dissuade others of them.

You're just ensuring no one takes you seriously in future discussion.

@TheYKcid I say this with love, but let's not forget which side of the Rune Cage fence you were on when that was the most OP CC in the game by a country mile.

Rune cage is not as widely used anymore and now has counterplay to it, there is literally no punishment to a bowtard that spams draining shot or petrify, or time stop or flame reach or any cc that doesn't require any resource to use or that you be in the face of the people you are trying to zerg.

Zeromaz

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Anyone still defending this skill should be aware that you're tossing away a lot of your personal credibility. It's the same thing we see every patch. People saying Viper was fine. Sload's was fine. Torug's Enchants were fine. Yadda yadda.

In all those past cases, there was blindingly clear evidence about the content in question being WAY out of whack—but we still had a select handful of individuals who seemed to think prancing onto the forums and swearing that everything was all good and dandy would magically make devs and players alike forget their woes and move on, leaving them to continue abusing the crutches they've grown to love and rely on.

Do you guys ever learn?

Right now we have multiple clear, documented bugs with this skill:

• Cannot break the knockback
• Attempting to break during the knockback puts you on cooldown, meaning the hard CC becomes unbreakable
• Knockback doesn't apply CC if the caster LOS' or gets CC'd—leaving the target open to multiple CCs subsequently

These are known facts, and no amount of misdirection and smokescreens on your part is going to dissuade others of them.

You're just ensuring no one takes you seriously in future discussion.

@TheYKcid I say this with love, but let's not forget which side of the Rune Cage fence you were on when that was the most OP CC in the game by a country mile.

Rune cage is not as widely used anymore and now has counterplay to it, there is literally no punishment to a bowtard that spams draining shot or petrify, or time stop or flame reach or any cc that doesn't require any resource to use or that you be in the face of the people you are trying to zerg.

I’m 99% sure all of those use resources. I’m also 99% sure people either completely lie or greatly exaggerate most everything on these forums

PhoenixGrey

TheYKcid wrote: »

Oh I used the *** out of it during Summerset. It was nice to have Sorcs on top for a patch.

I never claimed it was fine, though, and openly admitted it was overtuned to anyone who asked.

It got nerfed (overly so, I still maintain) and we moved along. I do fine without it, as should the players using Draining Shot once it gets fixed unless, of course, they WERE actually crutching on the skill's brokeness, and can't cope without it.

This skill is somewhat becoming a nightblade signature

Notice how the snipe thread was overrun by forumblades inspite of having video evidence on the desync !!!!!!. My best guess this skill will remain unchanged along with snipe.

Its clearly L2P since forumblades need to slot an additional skill on their skillless bar apart from snipe and cloak. Forumblades can enjoy health desyncing themselves in an empty dead game in the future

TheYKcid

I don't know how people manage to convince themselves that the skill isn't bugged when videos such as this exist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIZTZhuELfA

What's even more hilarious is that no less than three of the Draining Shot defenders in this thread have viewed and commented on the original bug report that showcased this video.

Gilvoth

.

Thogard

Solariken wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

@Solariken Not only are you defending a bug, but you are telling people to L2P against a bug that specifically rprevents counterplay. And calling me cranky now?

Also Please stop with your strawmans about other CC skills and fast killing builds. None of them are relevant to this bug.

@del9 and others here's the thing:

There is zero evidence that the normal function of this skill is bugged in any way. The CC portion of the skill has been exactly the same since day 1. The only thing they changed is projectile range.

In fact I would argue that the skill functions 100% as intended. Look at it like this:

The vast majority of ranged skills are dodgeable, reflectable, and blockable. Landing a hard CC is the only window a ranged build has to secure a follow-up. It also happens that the main spammable for bow has a 1.1 second cast time. Without a proper CC like DShot, landing a follow-up and securing a kill would be impossible. The knockback is also important because increasing distance is the only way bow skills deal respectable damage.

So please tell me more about how this skill prevents counterplay? A dodgeable/blockable/reflectable projectile with a conditional heal that does terrible damage. How can you say that with a straight face?

There are two separate issues here.

1. The bugs associated with the draining shot CC, which YKCid has laid out
2. How strong the skill is.

Let's not confuse the two. The skill is absolutely bugged. The range increase brought back the knockback-with-no-immunity bug.

Two separate conversations and i think most of the people here are talking about different sides.

TheYKcid

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the same exact thing happens in that video as all the other CC's and stuns.
and you proved also in the video that it happens very rarely just like all the other CC's do.

its not broken, its lagg.
and how lagg effects cc's
all of them.

Then you should have no problems with the skill's CC mechanics—and the CC mechanics only—being recoded to function like Dizzying Swing.

You still get your knockback > stun.
You still get your heal.
You still get your damage.

The only thing that would change, ostensibly, is a buggy CC behaviour that according to you and others doesn't exist, anyway. So you—and other "legitimate" Draining Shot users—would have zero logical reason to oppose ZOS investigating the issue.

TheYKcid

[snip]

• Draining can't be broken during the knockback component
• Attempting to break the knockback results in unbreakable hard CC subsequently
• The knockback component lasts ~1 second (longer depending on terrain)

So for you to never encounter problems with this skill, you would literally have to be incapable of responding to a CC and breaking-free within one second.

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

pieratsos

SodanTok wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Can be dodged, blocked, reflected, gets called unavoidable..... lol

It doesnt have disorient either...

Has singular purpose of CCing target with petty damage not even close to anything like frag lol...

OP are you bad? or just mad?

the knockback part of it is not CC-breakable. And when lag hits it just gets exponentially worse.

Single purpose = only does 1 thing
draining shot does:

• Buggy ass CC
• Meh damage
• Draining shot specifically heals for an decent amount
• with BRP bow puts a dot on you
• guarantees the next snipe you queue to land

"no disorient"

Blast an enemy with an explosive arrow, dealing x Physical Damage, knocking them back 6 meters, and disorienting them for 1.5 seconds. After the disorient ends, you heal for y Health.

source: https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/draining-shot

Oh and its available on every class.

I mean in your signature you linked a Bow/Bow guide for PvE, so I cant take you serious anyways. just gtfo.

Yeah listing info from some outdated website instead of knowing what it does in game sure helps your argument lol. Seems I cant take you serious and nor should anyone else

Yes everyone should take seriously only the people defending an unbreakable cc because "its the only reason to use it". Lmao.

mursie

Overpowered trigger moves that annoy most players:

1. draining shot - extremely strong CC that does not instantly break on quick instinct reactions like most other CC's in game. thereby annoying people
2. fossilize - an extremely strong CC that can't be dodged or blocked and applys a root after you break free. annoying
3. time stop - a gradual but immediate snare that offers a large area of denial space and stuns at end of duration - annoying
4. permafrost - a gradual but immediate snare that offers a large area of denial space and stuns - annoying
5. frost blockade - large area of denial snare - annoying
6. zaan - annoying
7. soul assault - annoying
8. radiant oppression - annoying

6 thru 8 are mildy annoying but can be tolerated. 1 through 3 are overpowered. 4 and 5 make premades a living hell.


9. pets (multiple) creating targeting issues.
10. werewolf fear - seriously, does this even give an immunity? i think my character is still running into walls as we speak.
11. snipe
12. snipe
13. snipe

Toc de Malsvi

TheYKcid wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the same exact thing happens in that video as all the other CC's and stuns.
and you proved also in the video that it happens very rarely just like all the other CC's do.

its not broken, its lagg.
and how lagg effects cc's
all of them.

Then you should have no problems with the skill's CC mechanics—and the CC mechanics only—being recoded to function like Dizzying Swing.

You still get your knockback > stun.
You still get your heal.
You still get your damage.

The only thing that would change, ostensibly, is a buggy CC behaviour that according to you and others doesn't exist, anyway. So you—and other "legitimate" Draining Shot users—would have zero logical reason to oppose ZOS investigating the issue.

I think people are confusing issues here and arguing different aspects at once.

Some want the range removed entirely.

Others claim you cannot break free.

Others claim there is no CC immunity.

I don't know about the particular preference of who you are responding to, but I think most have no issue with ZOS looking into bugs with the skill. Knocking back like Destructive Touch is also fine. When people claim the skill is uncounterable and overpowered that is what I think causes most to begin to discount the complaints.

Draining Shot is certainly not uncounterable, it does appear the dodge roll cast to negate immunity is back.

However not being able to break CC as an exclusive issue to Draining Shot I have found no evidence of. I have more videos of being unable to break Javelin, Fear, or Fossilize than Draining Shot. I'm sure it happens, however I am completely inconvinced its happening more than with other skills.

Emmagoldman

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the skill is fine, that break free slow part is from lagg. nothing new.
and by the way "it is not spammable, once you are hit with it we cant repeat untill that swirling thing is no longer on you, and that takes a while. its not spammable.

us archers and ranged playstyle players need a way to keep you at a distance so we have a chance to survive instead of killing us so fast.
allows us a chance at survival. and gives us a chance to perform long range distance like we are built for.

the complaint your talking about, is from lagg, all the CC's and crowd controls in eso have allways been prone to lagg problems and this draining shot is just the same as the rest of them.

Its not lag. Please dont tell me you believe that lag just happens to kick in just when this skill goes off.

I use it on my stamdk its strong as hell. Dwemer, you play a nb correct? Shade stealth, evasion from bow passive dont work well for you?

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

I get hit with it constantly with no follow attack or anything I'm pretty sure people do it just to be annoying.

if you play a bleed build, the stun allows a couple of extra ticks. You can also hit targets to burn resources down and allow your team to put pressure.

LeHarrt91

Is it because the stun is 1.5s and starts from when your hit not when you have been knocked back. So by the time you have been knocked back you cant breakfree because you are no longer stunned?

Waffennacht

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Is it because the stun is 1.5s and starts from when your hit not when you have been knocked back. So by the time you have been knocked back you cant breakfree because you are no longer stunned?

It's not known as a fact as to why it happens or if it's intended or not.

A few have said it's lag, or it's a function of knock back or intended.

I don't know myself, some abilities can be CC broke practically immediately, others feel like you gotta mash away and still won't CC break.

It's really bothersome for players like myself that believe the number of players shouldn't be the only determining factor for victory.

Undefwun

Irylia wrote: »

Gone are the days of interactive combat.

Zergs spam timestop and scattershot on you and will only confront and chase you when numbers are clearly in their favor. Their Confidence increases as more players of their faction add on to the already disproportionate fight.

Ill add a clip later to show what I mean.

Screenshot from when I went to Sotha on my DC toon

Undefwun

Personally my interpretation of the skill in question is that it was meant to be an OH SHI.... button.

Bow is ranged skill line and as much as I have a bias against it, Draining Shot was meant for when someone got too close, much like I use fear on my magblade.
"UGH PERSON SWINGING SHARP OBJECTS IN MY VICINITY, FEAR AND GTFO..."

The range in increase to me makes no sense. At 10m sure... it's about to get hairy for the bowtard and they need to stun you and run away to pew pew at you from a safe distance.

The reason it was unused as it was is that a large portion of bowtards are stam NBs who have access to fear.

The range increase made it more attractive to this "I want to pvp but not really pvp" play style and the bugs even more so and has led to 'over use'. Much like the huge influx of mag sorcs when Rune Cage was borked.

This play style attracts people who love to troll (or just want to be Legolas) and will happily abuse bugged or OP mechanics (seen any snipers in sload's since the fix?).
I can almost guarantee there is more bow based, salt mining vids on YT than any other play style. How often have I seen it be said "If you use a bow in pvp and not getting hate whispers you are doing it wrong".

Lucky for me my most used pvp toons have a counter and I don't let it get to me (like I did with Sload's). I just make sure I go to remove them first and as often as possible and /spit on their corpse for good measure.

Pain In The Axe

I dont think the skill is terrible, the only thing that sucks about it is that its really buggy to break out of, kinda like how Javelin was for templar with the knockback

technohic

Cries wrote: »

Polish the cc break making it smoother and problem solved.

Seriously. I thought they were supposed to make that more reliable. Must have just said "Meh. Too hard. Lets just nerf rune cage rather than fix the real issue."