So no. Nerfing the Bear didn't increase Magica Warden DPS

TheGreatBlackBear

I've tried to make it work. I've used the bear, I've used Destro, I've used Meteor, I've used Spell Strategist, I've used Sorrow, I've used Siroria, I've used Necro, I've used Master Architect and I could go on and on and on but the bottom line is I can't see what Devs are seeing. Nerfing the bear helped my DPS in no way shape or form
Animal Companion passive damage increase is good on paper and there alone. And stepping back 15 metres and possibly out of group heals for max damage done with the birds is a joke. Also the bear is my only execute and you gutted it.

MLGProPlayer

Still the worst DPS class in the game.

The bear not dying every 5 seconds in dungeons/trials helped DPS a bit in combat settings, but they're still behind every other class.

They don't have any utility either. At least if they had utility, you could justify bringing them.

The magicka warden class needs some serious buffs, as they have since day 1. But I've lost hope that ZOS will ever do that. They seem to want people to only use them in support roles.

Xsorus

i will say i do like the speed of the bear...It seems to haul ass to the target.

Wreuntzylla

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Still the worst DPS class in the game.

The bear not dying every 5 seconds in dungeons/trials helped DPS a bit in combat settings, but they're still behind every other class.

They don't have any utility either. At least if they had utility, you could justify bringing them.

The magicka warden class needs some serious buffs, as they have since day 1. But I've lost hope that ZOS will ever do that. They seem to want people to only use them in support roles.

No utility?

MLGProPlayer

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Still the worst DPS class in the game.

The bear not dying every 5 seconds in dungeons/trials helped DPS a bit in combat settings, but they're still behind every other class.

They don't have any utility either. At least if they had utility, you could justify bringing them.

The magicka warden class needs some serious buffs, as they have since day 1. But I've lost hope that ZOS will ever do that. They seem to want people to only use them in support roles.

No utility?

None.

Mandatory skills:

Front bar: Birds/Shalks/Swarm/Destro Ability/Magelight/Bear

Backbar: WoE/Winter's Revenge/Shield/Betty/Acceleration/Bear

None of their DPS skills provide any utility. Just damage and nothing else.

The only utility you get is from equipping Master Architect, but that isn't unique to wardens, and it's a significant DPS loss over Siroria/SS. Equipping any of the warden's support skills results in a massive DPS loss and cannot be done in any veteran content.

They have the lowest DPS and lowest utility of any DPS class in the game.

Abigail

MagDens are indeed gimped comparable to other Mage classes.

What I'd seriously propose is making MagDens a superior tanking class, where the bear can taunt and hold aggro on multiple targets within a fairly large AOE circle. There should also be a low-cost magicka skill that heals the bear exclusively. This warden should also have a non-DOT AOE skill -- used to initiate attacks -- that stuns single or group mobs long enough for the bear to apply its group taunt.

Inevitably, this should be a heavy-armor wearing class, low-medium damage output, but very tanky.

Such a build would make it unique, not overpowering, but prized for groups when no traditional tank is available.

max_only

Quelle suprise

Who would have thought that a 30% damage reduction on a double barred ultimate would be a bad idea???

EVERYONE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438173/smokey-the-bear-needs-your-help

Actually got a response on this one, nonsensical but a response nonetheless.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435756/why-nerfing-the-bear

ESO community only bands together enforce when it comes to Sorcerers or Nightblades, ignoring all others who are struggling.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439220/so-how-bout-dem-bears
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438534/dear-zos-please-reconsider-the-bear-nerf

Not even acknowledged in the official thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435650/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-wardens

MLGProPlayer

max_only wrote: »

Quelle suprise

Who would have thought that a 30% damage reduction on a double barred ultimate would be a bad idea???

EVERYONE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438173/smokey-the-bear-needs-your-help

Actually got a response on this one, nonsensical but a response nonetheless.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435756/why-nerfing-the-bear

ESO community only bands together enforce when it comes to Sorcerers or Nightblades, ignoring all others who are struggling.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439220/so-how-bout-dem-bears
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438534/dear-zos-please-reconsider-the-bear-nerf

Not even acknowledged in the official thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435650/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-wardens

Almost everyone who tried to make magden DPS work at a competitive level has quit the class, or quit the game entirely.

It's sad that the community doesn't come together to help uplift this class. They have been the worst DPS class in the game ever since they were released. That's 18 months and counting now. They haven't received a SINGLE meaningful buff in that span of time. It's almost as if ZOS hates the class.

Abigail

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Quelle suprise

Who would have thought that a 30% damage reduction on a double barred ultimate would be a bad idea???

EVERYONE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438173/smokey-the-bear-needs-your-help

Actually got a response on this one, nonsensical but a response nonetheless.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435756/why-nerfing-the-bear

ESO community only bands together enforce when it comes to Sorcerers or Nightblades, ignoring all others who are struggling.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439220/so-how-bout-dem-bears
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438534/dear-zos-please-reconsider-the-bear-nerf

Not even acknowledged in the official thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435650/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-wardens

Almost everyone who tried to make magden DPS work at a competitive level has quit the class, or quit the game entirely.

It's sad that the community doesn't come together to help uplift this class. They have been the worst DPS class in the game ever since they were released. That's 18 months and counting now. They haven't received a SINGLE meaningful buff in that span of time. It's almost as if ZOS hates the class.

A likely outcome because Wardens are a cluged-together afterthought. Bosmer were supposed to have a bear pet, ZOS reneged on this before launch and leveraged original work for the DLC. Problem is MagDens are a somewhat mediocre jack of all trades, with no particular niche at which they can excel. I still think their "thing" should be as a superior magicka tank class, but ZOS will probably never give it the simple to tools to become such.

usmcjdking

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Quelle suprise

Who would have thought that a 30% damage reduction on a double barred ultimate would be a bad idea???

EVERYONE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438173/smokey-the-bear-needs-your-help

Actually got a response on this one, nonsensical but a response nonetheless.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435756/why-nerfing-the-bear

ESO community only bands together enforce when it comes to Sorcerers or Nightblades, ignoring all others who are struggling.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439220/so-how-bout-dem-bears
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438534/dear-zos-please-reconsider-the-bear-nerf

Not even acknowledged in the official thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435650/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-wardens

Almost everyone who tried to make magden DPS work at a competitive level has quit the class, or quit the game entirely.

It's sad that the community doesn't come together to help uplift this class. They have been the worst DPS class in the game ever since they were released. That's 18 months and counting now. They haven't received a SINGLE meaningful buff in that span of time. It's almost as if ZOS hates the class.

Magdens don't need a buff as much as Engulfing Flames needs to do something else and Ice Staves need to not be a a glowing pile of ***.

Kurat

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I've tried to make it work. I've used the bear, I've used Destro, I've used Meteor, I've used Spell Strategist, I've used Sorrow, I've used Siroria, I've used Necro, I've used Master Architect and I could go on and on and on but the bottom line is I can't see what Devs are seeing. Nerfing the bear helped my DPS in no way shape or form
Animal Companion passive damage increase is good on paper and there alone. And stepping back 15 metres and possibly out of group heals for max damage done with the birds is a joke. Also the bear is my only execute and you gutted it.

They nerfed the bear so other ults would be also viable. And they compensated by buffing animal companion passive. Increasing magden dps was never their intention so it didn't happen. Zos said all classes are pretty equal now lol.
I still get more dps when using the bear so maybe more nerfs next patch:(
Magden is currently a joke. It's only ok if you're casual or wanna RP.

Thlepse

Since Warden got released, I'm having that ''ESO has 4 classes, and Warden'' vibe. Some cool animations, good looking skills but what's the outcome? A really mediocre class that when it somes to PvE, it's a pretty bad DD, an ok Healer and a not so ideal Tank (let's face it, a Warden doesn't even come close to a DK). So what's the purpose of this class?
They had a unique spammable that was undodgeable (I agree with that change, it was needed), yet ZoS changed that and now it's useless. There goes your class uniqueness. Using a FP rotation and trying to make the best out of Deep Fissure is really challenging but adds nothing special because you can hit far better numbers with ''easier'' classes.

Jameliel

Magden is my favorite class to play. They have a lot of survivability and some decent utility, but overall DPS is just terrible for PvE especially. In normal content it's fine, but for more difficult vet dungeons, vDSA and trials it's a joke.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite

Magdens are fun for regular game content. It's only at the top end, PvE vet DLC dungeons and vet trials where they might not have enough DPS to just skip mechanics the way many elites do these days.

Zardayne

Yep the DPS, the rotation with all of these delayed/double cast abilities, and all the repeated self buffing sucks..Couple tat with a double barred ultimate that had it's damage reduced...yea I'm still pretty bitter. One thing I miss from older MMOs was the one cast buffs which stayed on me unless some sort of magic/etc stripped them off. Tack on all of these 3 second delays and double casts makes for some wonky/clunky gameplay. I gave up on trying to do serious dps and pretty much heal full time in pve and pvp.

Abigail wrote: »

MagDens are indeed gimped comparable to other Mage classes.

What I'd seriously propose is making MagDens a superior tanking class, where the bear can taunt and hold aggro on multiple targets within a fairly large AOE circle. There should also be a low-cost magicka skill that heals the bear exclusively. This warden should also have a non-DOT AOE skill -- used to initiate attacks -- that stuns single or group mobs long enough for the bear to apply its group taunt.

Inevitably, this should be a heavy-armor wearing class, low-medium damage output, but very tanky.

Such a build would make it unique, not overpowering, but prized for groups when no traditional tank is available.

Do not take my magden (as close to a druid as I can play here in ESO) and make him more of a tank. Leave all of that taunting to undaunted/sword-n-board please.

Old games with good pet mechanic bars where I can hit taunt as needed I'd agree. Here, letting the bear taunt away on his own I feel is a bad thing.

fierackas

My stamina warden finally gave in and ditched his faithful bear companion, the bloody thing is useless now and certainly doesn't justify being a double barred ultimate

weedgenius

I know this is a post about the bear nerf, but as someone who loved my magden pre-Nerfmire I just want to add how genuinely sad I am that we also lost Arctic Blast and our wings. It sucks so much that the worst class in the game now lost one of its best skills and unique playstyles at the hand of ZOS's blind speed nerf. So ridiculous. I'm still fuming about it (can you tell? lol).

theyancey

First they nerfed the birds. Then they nerfed the bear. What more do they want to do to drive magdens into the dirt?

MLGProPlayer

theyancey wrote: »

First they nerfed the birds. Then they nerfed the bear. What more do they want to do to drive magdens into the dirt?

We were already in the dirt when the class launched. They've just been burying us deeper and deeper since then.

AlienatedGoat

Abigail wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Quelle suprise

Who would have thought that a 30% damage reduction on a double barred ultimate would be a bad idea???

EVERYONE.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438173/smokey-the-bear-needs-your-help

Actually got a response on this one, nonsensical but a response nonetheless.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435756/why-nerfing-the-bear

ESO community only bands together enforce when it comes to Sorcerers or Nightblades, ignoring all others who are struggling.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439220/so-how-bout-dem-bears
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438534/dear-zos-please-reconsider-the-bear-nerf

Not even acknowledged in the official thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435650/pts-update-20-feedback-thread-for-wardens

Almost everyone who tried to make magden DPS work at a competitive level has quit the class, or quit the game entirely.

It's sad that the community doesn't come together to help uplift this class. They have been the worst DPS class in the game ever since they were released. That's 18 months and counting now. They haven't received a SINGLE meaningful buff in that span of time. It's almost as if ZOS hates the class.

A likely outcome because Wardens are a cluged-together afterthought. Bosmer were supposed to have a bear pet, ZOS reneged on this before launch and leveraged original work for the DLC. Problem is MagDens are a somewhat mediocre jack of all trades, with no particular niche at which they can excel. I still think their "thing" should be as a superior magicka tank class, but ZOS will probably never give it the simple to tools to become such.

Mediocre? My warden tank and healer would beg to differ. They offer similar performance as my DK tank and templar healer, and with different utility options that I find very useful and refreshing.

If you want to talk mediocre, look to sorc tanks/healers, NB tanks, DK healers etc. I've got them all, and they are all severely lacking compared to wardens.

This "average/mediocre" talk of warden tanks and healers makes me wonder if these people even know how to properly play the class. Hint: Stop playing them like a DK or templar and let them do their own thing. You'll find they have a lot to offer.

TheGreatBlackBear

My best day on my Magden isn't even equal to my worst day on magblade. I could miss bow procs, forget to keep blockade up screw around on general and still outperform my Magden if everything went perfect. I'm not saying it has to be magblade level deeps. But come on! Better has to be done when designing classes and implementing changes.

macsmooth

I always played my Magden as Heavy Armor Ice tank which I loved until they destroyed the best utility the Wardens bring and that’s Arctic Blast it was great skill and now it’s a joke skill

The bear nerf was a joke -30% for a +3% per animal slotted doesn’t make it anywhere near +30% damage

But what I think is we are all playing Magdens wrong we need to play them the way Gina plays them, as what she plays Zos don’t nerf they buff them. I think they are called Stamdens

MLGProPlayer

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

My best day on my Magden isn't even equal to my worst day on magblade. I could miss bow procs, forget to keep blockade up screw around on general and still outperform my Magden if everything went perfect. I'm not saying it has to be magblade level deeps. But come on! Better has to be done when designing classes and implementing changes.

Magdens have one of the most difficult rotations (right up there with NB), but without the payoff. You need to be on your A game just to get mediocre results, that other classes can achieve with a sloppy rotation.

Tryxus

I really hope that this nerf was done in preparation for a future update in which Wardens are allowed to single bar the Bear, or at least give its Execute a rework

ESO_Nightingale

The key to future magden dps buffs is with frost magic. Ive been saying this for a long time

There are quite a few garbage morphs

And now that blast was destroyed, i am pushing the arctic wind master plan more than ever. It would be useful in pve too as it would deal mag based damage. And tanks would get old blast back on polar.

Expansive frost cloak doesn't compare to fortress. I do hear that some people use it but its so damn situational that its not really worth it over fortress. Making it a dps skill that has an aoe or something else would be really helpful. Crystallized Slab is absolutely not comparable to Shimmering Shield. Im sorry. The projectile might have infinite range but it does less than half of a spammable with no effects attached to the projectile. Contrast this to shimmering which gives major heroism which is insane ultimate generation and you see why people primarily run shimmering. A discord member had an idea for "Crystallized Swords" which is a grim focus-like skill. What it does is when you proc chilled on an enemy(can refresh it on a single target) you gain an ice sword. Anytime after you gain one sword you can fire it like a volley at an enemy. The second sword does more damage and the 3rd one does more damage than that but gains execute scaling. This is an execute dependant on glacial presence (which could use a unique effect like more critical damage to chilled enemies) and it would be fair with shimmering shield being the other morph. So you choose either a good damage tool, Or a great defence tool. It also makes it so you cant have both at once. And northern storm isnt far off but i propose we get a passive "10% frost damage" increase added onto it to make it stand out in pvp but also not buff permafrost. And it would become a viable dps ultimate rather than just using the bear all the time.

In case you arent aware of the arctic wind master plan. It is:

Add old arctic blast to the base skill so polar wind inherits the amazing maim proc chance from chilled and so tanks gain back their frost tank theme.

Then we add back a magicka and spell damage scaling version of old blasts damage to the caster and perhaps also to the projectile so that you can be at a range like the crass tries to be. Yes it would keep its stun.