Time Stop and Permafrost: destroyers of fun

Juhasow

In terms of snare ice blockade beats them both.

Trancestor

HansProlo wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

HansProlo wrote: »

Yes, nerf mag warden. They are way too strong lol

They are btw

Tell me your build because mine seems to suck then

Necro is a must, either master shock staff or perfected asylum front bar, a backbarable set like lich and 2 piece monster set of choice, trifood, mage mundus and all magicka glyhps. Skill setup is really important: Shalks, Living Trelis, Ice Fortress, Netch, Bird of Prey are all a must.

Irylia

Snare immunity 8 seconds please
Major expedition sources returned to normal
Swift was the issue and now we all suffer a bombardment of range damage while we crawl to any form
Of los

BNOC

The only issue I have with either of these is the fact that perma goes through through walls and ignoring LoS - The same way they did with Wall of Elements and the likes.

Donny_Vito

I love PvP'ing, but all these issues that have been mentioned are what frustrate me. Sometimes it's just not worth the time/effort to go into Cyrodiil to get frustrated with server performance issues and cheese builds. BG's have been a fun transition in this time of crisis, but you still see the same vanilla builds in BGs over and over.

NBrookus

BNOC wrote: »

The only issue I have with either of these is the fact that perma goes through through walls and ignoring LoS - The same way they did with Wall of Elements and the likes.

So does destro ult and many other skills. If heals can't go through walls and ceilings, neither should damage.

BNOC

NBrookus wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

The only issue I have with either of these is the fact that perma goes through through walls and ignoring LoS - The same way they did with Wall of Elements and the likes.

So does destro ult and make other skills. If heals can't go through walls and ceilings, neither should damage.

Yeah, I meant to say "Fix it the same way they did with.."

We get a couple of scrub 4 man teams on Xbox Eu running these builds but they aren't organised and split apart frequently making them very easy to deal with -Maybe that's why I don't have the concerns some of you PC guys do.

Actually, I find a Healer & Tank with guard combo is more annoying, as that's actually impossible to get rid of without solid players and I just don't get that lucky in matchmaking. These guys are soggy beyond belief but all they need to do is stand a flag, drop a Time-Stop, grab hold of each others *** and just heal until the flag is capped.

There's one particular team of noobs that run 1 pocket healer - 2 off-heal Templars and a dedicated DD - You rack up about 3M damage against them every BG but can't do *** - Neither can they damage wise, but they just go for objectives.

This and all these issues may be tied to the matchmaking that clearly hasn't fixed, where solo's are being q'd up against premades.

Mayrael

Mist forms away...

BlackMadara

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Slows should instead overwrite one another, strongest overwriting the least strongest. This instead of stacking.

The strength of slows do not stack. Only the strongest slow is applied. If you have a 30% slow applied to you, and then another 40% slow, you are slowed by 40%. You are not slowed by 70% (additive) or 58% (multiplicative.)

Minno

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Slows should instead overwrite one another, strongest overwriting the least strongest. This instead of stacking.

They do....

CatchMeTrolling

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

you know they wont be nerfing the cash cow - i mean warden until there is a new class to make $ off. We all know how OP warden is, zos dont care. As for time stop i just try to get out of any growing red on the floor and it seems to work out for me.

They have nerfed magden multiple times, what are you talking about. It’s comments like this that get things nerfed until they’re unplayable. And ironically you guys end up in a meta like this because of your complaints.

Their ultimate can hardly kill anyone competent solo unless they’re out of resources. It’s only good in group play. Now people want them nerfed in the only viable content after the fact no one has been playing magden. Sums up the pvp community.

mursie

Solariken wrote: »

I think it's time we rally together and make a bunch of noise about removing the snares from both of these abilities. Nothing is less fun than not being able to move, especially when the snare area is the size of a football field. The massive AOE stuns are plenty strong enough. I could write up a wall of text detailing why these skills are problematic but anyone who plays BG's has a thorough understanding.

Keep the snare on Northern Storm if you want but remove it from Permafrost. Likewise, keep the snare on Borrowed Time but remove it from Time Freeze.

Who's with me!?

how are you running around faster than medium armor stam toons on a magplar? that's what I want to know. thank god for timefreeze and permafrost, without them you might never slow down.

NBrookus

mursie wrote: »

how are you running around faster than medium armor stam toons on a magplar? that's what I want to know. thank god for timefreeze and permafrost, without them you might never slow down.

Personally, I invest in a lot of sprint cost reduction so I can afford short bursts of speed. But faster than stam toons? Nah. Not since they removed the option for magicka toons to viably use swift and speed pots.

p00tx

God yes. I am personally sick to death of staring into the maw of a zerg full of screaming, slobbering, spinning halfwits who spam Timestop non stop. It's like an event horizon of stupid that you cannot escape from. This "skill" allows massive groups of people with zero skill to mow over anyone who didn't happen to notice the slowing of the fps that always precedes these groups being in the relative vicinity.

Ragnarock41

And people lose their minds when someone asks for shifting standart to actually follow you around,but its fine for permafrost to have aoe major protection, permasnare,stun,damage, with a much bigger area than standart, lower cost, and it friggen follows you around.

I don't even want permafrost nerfed, I just wished my standart or corrosive armor was half as useful as this thing is. Considering the costs are very similar.

As for time stop I have no idea what were they smoking to make a CC more broken than the effin rune cage, and make it an AOE...

Solariken

mursie wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I think it's time we rally together and make a bunch of noise about removing the snares from both of these abilities. Nothing is less fun than not being able to move, especially when the snare area is the size of a football field. The massive AOE stuns are plenty strong enough. I could write up a wall of text detailing why these skills are problematic but anyone who plays BG's has a thorough understanding.

Keep the snare on Northern Storm if you want but remove it from Permafrost. Likewise, keep the snare on Borrowed Time but remove it from Time Freeze.

Who's with me!?

how are you running around faster than medium armor stam toons on a magplar? that's what I want to know. thank god for timefreeze and permafrost, without them you might never slow down.

Lol @mursie my magplar runs Prisoner's + Coward's as an Orc with 1x Swift and The Steed. I originally did it as a joke build but it turned out to be kinda decent and super fun. ZOS even recently buffed it a little with the new Grace light armor passive XD

Minno

They should do the following for time stop:
- remove cast time and delay. Make the AOE instant stun
- remove snare entirely as compensation
- make it AOE self cast so repositioning is counterplay
- one morph is a dmg/defensive buff. the other morph is minor defile instead of the strong heal debuff that has no counterplay.

This way tanks get the trial/dungeon friendly AOE stun if needed and PVP gets a faster stun for solo builds. Zergs are still going to spam it, but instead cant snare nor can they just spam at range (need to be closer and no longer have huge health debuff).

For Permafrost they should do the following:
- remove snare entirely (not needed with speed nerfs)
- Northstorm = Remove Major protection buff. Keep DOT and max mag by 8% for being slotted. Add execute dmg mechanic where all your attacks for 8 seconds deal x% for all targets under 25% health. Reduce cost to match mid range ults (140-150 at most).
- Permafrost = Remove stun (warden needs this elsewhere anyway). Instead grant major protection, grant minor resist on slotting and have it instantly cast Impaling Shards+Arctic Wind+Shimmering Shield for free. Keep at 200 ult.

This way if they want the crowd control they need to select the correct morphs but gives wardens an execute mechanic away from the bear. And the second morph is kinda like resto ult, except with some powerful defensive spell casting (and maybe unique for stamden since they use most of those spells).

Duukar

Major and minor snares. 15%-30%

Immobilized on a cool down longer than zero or 2 sec with a dodge.

Remove time stop from BG play.

Win.

Minno

Duukar wrote: »

Major and minor snares. 15%-30%

Immobilized on a cool down longer than zero or 2 sec with a dodge.

Remove time stop from BG play.

Win.

snares are on a major/minor system. The largest overrides all lowest snares. So a 50% snare won't stack with the 30% snare to give you 80% snare. You will just have a 50% snare lol.

Defilted

Warden Ult is fine.

If there is a snare change to time bubble then so be it.

Cinbri

Sleet Storm is perfect ultimate skill and example of how ZOS should treat ults of other classes. Activating it make you feel, like zos described ultimates should be - powerfull.
P.S.: dont forget that what might making it to feel OP is major heroism that is like double reduce cost of any ult.

Solariken

Cinbri wrote: »

Sleet Storm is perfect ultimate skill and example of how ZOS should treat ults of other classes. Activating it make you feel, like zos described ultimates should be - powerfull.
P.S.: dont forget that what might making it to feel OP is major heroism that is like double reduce cost of any ult.

Haha yeah well you might have a point. 200 cost seems high but is misleading because Warden does generate ultimate so crazy fast.

Maybe I'll try l Champion of the Hist with Shimmy Shield and a Decisive backbar. Permafrost spam and salt will flow like a river. Might be cheesy but sometimes that's how we gotta roll to get things balanced appropriately.

wheem_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Sleet Storm is perfect ultimate skill and example of how ZOS should treat ults of other classes. Activating it make you feel, like zos described ultimates should be - powerfull.
P.S.: dont forget that what might making it to feel OP is major heroism that is like double reduce cost of any ult.

Haha yeah well you might have a point. 200 cost seems high but is misleading because Warden does generate ultimate so crazy fast.

Maybe I'll try l Champion of the Hist with Shimmy Shield and a Decisive backbar. Permafrost spam and salt will flow like a river. Might be cheesy but sometimes that's how we gotta roll to get things balanced appropriately.

A Shimmering Shield nerf (as well as potential nerfs to other forms of Ultimate generation) would be much more reasonable than a nerf to Northern Storm/Permafrost. Maybe they could compensate by allowing the other morph of Shimmering to work against melee attacks instead of projectiles, with the Ultimate generation gone entirely. I'd 100% find a bar slot for it.

Unless I'm already at the point where I'm probably going to die soon, I'm not that afraid of another Warden's Northern Storm/Permafrost. But I can't say the same for getting hit with some burst ultimates (which will also tend to be coming in more frequently). Dawnbreakers, Incaps, and Leaps don't give you a telegraph that can be countered with a buggy Draining Shot, good enough mobility, CC'ing the user, etc...and obviously burst damage + non-delayed stun is harder to heal and recover from.

Solariken

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Sleet Storm is perfect ultimate skill and example of how ZOS should treat ults of other classes. Activating it make you feel, like zos described ultimates should be - powerfull.
P.S.: dont forget that what might making it to feel OP is major heroism that is like double reduce cost of any ult.

Haha yeah well you might have a point. 200 cost seems high but is misleading because Warden does generate ultimate so crazy fast.

Maybe I'll try l Champion of the Hist with Shimmy Shield and a Decisive backbar. Permafrost spam and salt will flow like a river. Might be cheesy but sometimes that's how we gotta roll to get things balanced appropriately.

A Shimmering Shield nerf (as well as potential nerfs to other forms of Ultimate generation) would be much more reasonable than a nerf to Northern Storm/Permafrost. Maybe they could compensate by allowing the other morph of Shimmering to work against melee attacks instead of projectiles, with the Ultimate generation gone entirely. I'd 100% find a bar slot for it.

Unless I'm already at the point where I'm probably going to die soon, I'm not that afraid of another Warden's Northern Storm/Permafrost. But I can't say the same for getting hit with some burst ultimates (which will also tend to be coming in more frequently). Dawnbreakers, Incaps, and Leaps don't give you a telegraph that can be countered with a buggy Draining Shot, good enough mobility, CC'ing the user, etc...and obviously burst damage + non-delayed stun is harder to heal and recover from.

@wheem_ESO I tend to disagree, but that's not really the point of the thread (which I think most people are missing actually). This is not a "whaaa nerf the thing that killed me!" issue, it's the fact that these two abilities in particular really suck the fun out of bg's. They make gameplay feel really bad and encourage lame ball-group tactics. Am I wrong?

wheem_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

I tend to disagree, but that's not really the point of the thread (which I think most people are missing actually). This is not a "whaaa nerf the thing that killed me!" issue, it's the fact that these two abilities in particular really suck the fun out of bg's. They make gameplay feel really bad and encourage lame ball-group tactics. Am I wrong?

If Northern Storm/Permafrost didn't snare, it wouldn't be very useful at all outside of premade groups, where someone else could do the locking down for you. Without the snare, Random-Stamina-Character#5829 would hit me with a fresh Rending Slashes for the 50% snare, then dodge roll once + do a second or two of sprinting and wait out the duration, taking no meaningful damage from my 200 cost Ultimate. And even if I had no other debuffs on me at the time, and could therefore completely remove the Rending Slashes in 2 Blue Betty casts, I'm not going to run down a Stam class. Or a Mag Sorc. Or a Mag Templar with Ritual down. Or a Mag Nightblade that had their shade in a decent position. I guess I could run down a Mag DK, as long as I burn up a lot of my Stamina by CC breaking the Petrify, then dodge rolling out of its root. 'Course if he hits Mist Form afterwards I'll have mostly wasted both my Ultimate and my Stamina.

If ZOS took your suggestion and only removed the snare from Permafrost, while leaving it intact on my Northern Storm, that would become the only morph anyone would ever use. Why give up the passive Magicka buff and the snare, just to get a stun on a 3 second delay that will probably never actually happen because you won't be able to keep most people in it for long enough? Unless of course they get stunned by something else and therefore become immune to the Permafrost stun.

And if we're nerfing things just based on how annoying they are, I could come up with a huge list of things ahead of both Time Stop and Northern Storm/Permafrost. Like maybe how you used to be one of the Stam players that would dodge roll about 37 times in a row and take no damage

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

Permafrost is fine. you can counter it easily and it has a high cost (unlike some other ult that does more and costs only 70 cough cough). On the other hand I agree that the instant cast morph of time stop has a problem. What's the problem you ask? It's that the radius of the skill's snare effect is bigger than the visual effect. While the orb is expanding you are snared even if you move close to it but still outside it. That's an issue.

Thlepse

Seems like another ''learn to play'' thread. Seriously your main concern is Permafrost (which is perfectly fine because you're standing in the ice ffs, you're supposed to be stunned) while other cheap and cheesy ultimates remain untouched and abused even by magicka setups, yes I'm talking to you Dawnbreaker.
Timestop would do with a radius reduction but ppl should try and find ways to counter all these mechanics they believe are overpowered rather than complaining and asking about nerfs.

WaltherCarraway

l2fp

sage2000

An actual nerf magden thread FFS...

sage2000

Vapirko wrote: »

r

The name of the game in PvP these days is AOE snare + AOE damage, its really effective, extremely cheesy and because of the mobility nerfs, counter play is very low especially on medium and light armor builds which need it the most. Something definitely isn't right.

The name of the game these days for stam characters is to snare you and bleed you down, which is also extremely cheesy. And counter play for mag toons is low unless you're a healbot. If snare is taken away from permafrost (an ult) it surely needs to be taken from rending (a spammable in terms of cost). I'm not really in favor of taking it from either, though I would like to see bleeds toned down.