Melee-only set dropping staves - needs corrected

Feric51

The new Soldier of Anguish set is a melee-only proc set that is currently awarding staves as part of the loot pool. This needs to be corrected to be brought inline with other “smart loot” changes that made sure sets that required melee procs wouldn’t drop bow/staff, etc.

5-piece bonus reads:
Your melee light attacks have a 25% chance to place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying (x) Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating the next (x) points of healing done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

@zos_ginabruno can you take a look at this?

Thanks

Edit to clarify: I know sets like Spriggan’s, Vicious Ophidian, etc have always dropped non-melee weapons, but those sets do not require a melee attack to proc. This set falls in line with Viper, Ravager, and Eagle eye sets that require a specific damage type to proc a set bonus. Those latter sets were all adjusted to only drop appropriate weapons, I think Soldier of Anguish should fall in the same category.

ImmortalCX

Whot is this smart loot to which you refer? Getting inappropriate weapons for sets is a long standing eso tradition!

Mettaricana

Zos should be fired for this kinda crap the amount of ophidian resto staves and spriggan staves and sanctuary bows i got is a bigger joke than crown crates rng

TheShadowScout

I never thought it make sense for stamina only sets to drop staves, or for magica only sets to drop stamina weapons... but then, I decon those usually in hopes of snagging style mats, so...

But it -would- be vexing, especially for dungeon drops, yes?
Thus I have to agree, it would be better if they fixed this!

And while they're at it, maybe change some things around for the Bind-on-Pickup stuff? I mean, at least they could do it like Orsinium, and after a year or so, make all those BoE so the trading can start on the older stuff and people who have despaired on ever getting the thing they want can start hitting the guild stores...

SydneyGrey

I was getting a bunch of daggers and maces and swords dropping for that magicka set from Clockwork City, so ....
I thought it was always this way?

Feric51

To clarify...

This set is a proc set that is only procced by a melee attack, therefore it is completely impossible to use the 5-piece bonus with a staff/bow.

Sets like Spriggan’s that are obviously set up for stamina-based characters could still theoretically be used by a staff/bow-wielder for some purpose and have the 5-piece bonus still apply. That’s not what this situation is.

I have edited the title to better reflect this specification.

TheShadowScout

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I thought it was always this way?

It was. It is (mostly).
Does not mean it should always be that way!

O_LYKOS

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t all sets, regardless of the set bonuses, drop weapons of all type? Like, I can’t begin to think how many bows I’ve had for magicka sets. It’s just apart of the game. No biggy.

sdtlc

There are a few sets, one with special bonus to bow, which will only drop bows as weapons, guess they realocated the specific resources to crownstore.

Varana

.

vesselwiththepestle

What about melee class abilities?

Varana

That's what I wrote before I deleted my post.

The Soldier of Anguish set from the OP is special in that it only procs on melee light attacks, so class abilities don't proc it anyway.

It is a valid remark for other sets like Viper's, for instance, which procs on all melee attacks (that includes class abilities while holding a bow or staff). Restricting their drops was misguided.

Feric51

Varana wrote: »

That's what I wrote before I deleted my post.

The Soldier of Anguish set from the OP is special in that it only procs on melee light attacks, so class abilities don't proc it anyway.

It is a valid remark for other sets like Viper's, for instance, which procs on all melee attacks (that includes class abilities while holding a bow or staff). Restricting their drops was misguided.

^^^ This is what I was getting at.

xRIVALENx

The same can be said about the Curse of Doylemish set and the fully charged heavy melee attacks required to trigger the fifth piece bonus. Have yet to see staves drop but I have seen many a bow which cannot utilize the set to its potential nor should it be able to at a distance.

Here is the link to the old thread where we were discussing intelligent drops back in 2016: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/297998/restoration-staff-of-the-red-mountain/p1

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to update everyone, we only remove certain weapons from an item set’s possible drops when it is utterly and absolutely impossible for that set’s five-piece bonus to be triggered with that weapon equipped. For instance, it is impossible to trigger the Coat of the Red Mountain item set’s five-piece bonus with a Restoration Staff; we will be removing Restoration Staves of the Red Mountain from the possible set item drops in Stonefalls in a future patch.

While some of the sets listed in this thread may not be optimal in all situations, they can still potentially be used, so they are considered legitimate item slot/set combinations.

Had to do some digging for that quote...

If anyone is collecting items that no longer drop I may still have that Red Mountain Resto Staff laying around.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Whot is this smart loot to which you refer? Getting inappropriate weapons for sets is a long standing eso tradition!

Well, long, long ago in a Galaxy far away ZOS stated they changed the Loot system to be an "Intelligent" drop system so only the appropriately used weapons would drop. I.E. for Stamina sets only stamina weapons such as Swords, Bows, etc. and for Magicka based sets only Staves. This NEVER happened. Once the new system went "Live" ZOS simply ignored our questions as to "What happened to the Intelligent drop system".

Dawnblade

Feric51 wrote: »

To clarify...

This set is a proc set that is only procced by a melee attack, therefore it is completely impossible to use the 5-piece bonus with a staff/bow.

Sets like Spriggan’s that are obviously set up for stamina-based characters could still theoretically be used by a staff/bow-wielder for some purpose and have the 5-piece bonus still apply. That’s not what this situation is.

I have edited the title to better reflect this specification.

IMO they should EITHER go all-in on removing trash drops (highly preferred) OR allow every set to drop every weapon.

And under what theory does Spriggans physical penetration benefit a staff user?

EDIT TO ADD: Not saying they shouldn't make the change, just that there are many weapons which drop for other sets that are equally useless - just because the weapon may proc (or bonus may be active), doesn't make it useful in any way.

Feric51

Dawnblade wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

To clarify...

This set is a proc set that is only procced by a melee attack, therefore it is completely impossible to use the 5-piece bonus with a staff/bow.

Sets like Spriggan’s that are obviously set up for stamina-based characters could still theoretically be used by a staff/bow-wielder for some purpose and have the 5-piece bonus still apply. That’s not what this situation is.

I have edited the title to better reflect this specification.

IMO they should EITHER go all-in on removing trash drops (highly preferred) OR allow every set to drop every weapon.

And under what theory does Spriggans physical penetration benefit a staff user?

EDIT TO ADD: Not saying they shouldn't make the change, just that there are many weapons which drop for other sets that are equally useless - just because the weapon may proc (or bonus may be active), doesn't make it useful in any way.

Focusing solely on the bold part of your comment, the physical penetration might not be of any use to a staff user for staff/magicka attacks, but any stamina-based character could potentially slot a restoration staff on their back bar (I'm thinking PvP scenario) and have only one resto staff skill slotted with the rest being class/physical damage skills that would still be benefiting from the penetration as would any physical DoT's that might be ticking while on the back bar.


Again, the 5-piece bonus from Soldier of Anguish has absolutely ZERO relevance on a staff or bow because it is a melee-only proc (and furthermore a melee light attack proc so not even class abilities that count as melee damage work either), and not a passive effect like penetration or weapon damage.

Salvas_Aren

I think the drops should be adequate in general.

Magicka sets need high chances for staves, while stamina sets need a low one. The worst thing is the flood of non matching unique items.

Who needs the dreugh lightning staff or the rattle cage sword?

nadrokal

Dawnblade wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

To clarify...

This set is a proc set that is only procced by a melee attack, therefore it is completely impossible to use the 5-piece bonus with a staff/bow.

Sets like Spriggan’s that are obviously set up for stamina-based characters could still theoretically be used by a staff/bow-wielder for some purpose and have the 5-piece bonus still apply. That’s not what this situation is.

I have edited the title to better reflect this specification.

IMO they should EITHER go all-in on removing trash drops (highly preferred) OR allow every set to drop every weapon.

And under what theory does Spriggans physical penetration benefit a staff user?

EDIT TO ADD: Not saying they shouldn't make the change, just that there are many weapons which drop for other sets that are equally useless - just because the weapon may proc (or bonus may be active), doesn't make it useful in any way.

My guess is that it would work fine with non-weapon abilities, for example Silver Bolts, which can be used regardless of what's equipped and does Physical Damage. Not saying it's a good idea or common practice, but class & guild skills can be used with any weapon, can't they?

Bald_templar

werewolf light attack

also idk if morkuldin can proc it or not...maybe you can bow light attack proc morkuldin then proc this

as for spriggan, one can assume a stemplar jabing with a lightning staff to gain bonus from ancient knowledge while supporting a no-staves mdk buddy with ele drain as a reasonable scenario

josiahva

Feric51 wrote: »

The new Soldier of Anguish set is a melee-only proc set that is currently awarding staves as part of the loot pool. This needs to be corrected to be brought inline with other “smart loot” changes that made sure sets that required melee procs wouldn’t drop bow/staff, etc.

5-piece bonus reads:
Your melee light attacks have a 25% chance to place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying (x) Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating the next (x) points of healing done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

@zos_ginabruno can you take a look at this?

Thanks

Edit to clarify: I know sets like Spriggan’s, Vicious Ophidian, etc have always dropped non-melee weapons, but those sets do not require a melee attack to proc. This set falls in line with Viper, Ravager, and Eagle eye sets that require a specific damage type to proc a set bonus. Those latter sets were all adjusted to only drop appropriate weapons, I think Soldier of Anguish should fall in the same category.

People who ask this type of thing always forget that people MAY NOT BE USING THE SET FOR ITS 5 PIECE BONUS...there are many sets I use for 2 or 3 piece bonuses, depending on the build and what I am doing....so dropping the possibility of a staff from these sets would hurt niche builds. I do agree though the possibility for a ranged weapon from a melee focused set should be very low, on the order of less than 10%

Feric51

josiahva wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

The new Soldier of Anguish set is a melee-only proc set that is currently awarding staves as part of the loot pool. This needs to be corrected to be brought inline with other “smart loot” changes that made sure sets that required melee procs wouldn’t drop bow/staff, etc.

5-piece bonus reads:
Your melee light attacks have a 25% chance to place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying (x) Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating the next (x) points of healing done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

@zos_ginabruno can you take a look at this?

Thanks

Edit to clarify: I know sets like Spriggan’s, Vicious Ophidian, etc have always dropped non-melee weapons, but those sets do not require a melee attack to proc. This set falls in line with Viper, Ravager, and Eagle eye sets that require a specific damage type to proc a set bonus. Those latter sets were all adjusted to only drop appropriate weapons, I think Soldier of Anguish should fall in the same category.

People who ask this type of thing always forget that people MAY NOT BE USING THE SET FOR ITS 5 PIECE BONUS...there are many sets I use for 2 or 3 piece bonuses, depending on the build and what I am doing....so dropping the possibility of a staff from these sets would hurt niche builds. I do agree though the possibility for a ranged weapon from a melee focused set should be very low, on the order of less than 10%

I'm only asking that they stay consistent. They removed staves and bows from the Viper loot pool. They removed restoration staves from the Red Mountain set. They removed all weapons except bows from the Eagle Eye set using the reasons I bring up as justification for past actions.

I'm only asking that they follow their own precedent and fix this one as well. I assume it just fell through the cracks and was hoping to bring it to their attention is all.

Varana

On the other hand, they went too far with some of the earlier adjustments. You can proc the Viper bonus with a bow equipped, via class abilities. So I think they should be rather conservative in their approach.

For instance, Bald_templar's questions: Do werewolf attacks inherit the set bonus? I.e. if you're changing to WW while having Soldier of Anguish active, does light-attacking as a werewolf trigger the set?