It is time to nerf Stamblades and other things

El_Borracho

Illuvatarr wrote: »

What irony? Your post would have some merit if overload wasn’t an ultimate. It is.

In other words, "I should be able to kill anyone I want to with my class' special ability, but nobody else should be able to use their classes' abilities to harm my fragile ego character in any way. Anything less is a total lack of macro balance. Burn all bows and arrows, too. They sting when they hit xx69YoMom!!!xx, my level 810 Mag Sorc."

Thanks for clearing that up. You may now go back to teabagging others. Respectfully, of course.

Illuvatarr

El_Borracho wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

What irony? Your post would have some merit if overload wasn’t an ultimate. It is.

In other words, "I should be able to kill anyone I want to with my class' special ability, but nobody else should be able to use their classes' abilities to harm my fragile ego character in any way. Anything less is a total lack of macro balance. Burn all bows and arrows, too. They sting when they hit xx69YoMom!!!xx, my level 810 Mag Sorc."

Thanks for clearing that up. You may now go back to teabagging others. Respectfully, of course.

Dont teabag sir. Its classless. Did it one time and felt horrible afterwards. I dont think any classes ultimate should be stopped by a spammable ability. I would think if I wasn't playing a mag sorc either.

Also, you used irony out of context. Look up the definition.

russelmmendoza

Stupid post to be honest.
The only one I can think of getting killed by that is magsorc dps.
Dk reflect.
Warden heal through it.
Templar live through it.
Magsorc gonna die. No natural heal lol.

JinMori

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Stigant wrote: »

You know that there are undodgeable AoEs that also take NBs out of stealth, right? Bit to mention that StamNB has very limited amount of magicka to cloak continually as you describe it.
Try to roll StamBlade, if you don't have one already, and play it for a while on lvl 50 in PvP. Than come back.

1) selfrighteousness and pride, ok ... my opinion is the correct one. I do not agree

2) yeah ... so basically you 're keeping the tradition of magsorc complaining about StamBlades, and the other way around, alive.

1) We can agree to disagree. You seem like an intelligent poster. Surprised you made the logical fallacy of jumping to ad hominem.

2) You are assuming a lot here. This isn’t a complaint; it’s a suggestion in the interest of playing a balanced game.

You do not seem to understand what an ad hominem argument is, ill make you an example:

The Earth is not flat.

Well, you're just stupid.

This is what ad hominem is.

Illuvatarr

JinMori wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Stigant wrote: »

You know that there are undodgeable AoEs that also take NBs out of stealth, right? Bit to mention that StamNB has very limited amount of magicka to cloak continually as you describe it.
Try to roll StamBlade, if you don't have one already, and play it for a while on lvl 50 in PvP. Than come back.

1) selfrighteousness and pride, ok ... my opinion is the correct one. I do not agree

2) yeah ... so basically you 're keeping the tradition of magsorc complaining about StamBlades, and the other way around, alive.

1) We can agree to disagree. You seem like an intelligent poster. Surprised you made the logical fallacy of jumping to ad hominem.

2) You are assuming a lot here. This isn’t a complaint; it’s a suggestion in the interest of playing a balanced game.

You do not seem to understand what an ad hominem argument is, ill make you an example:

The Earth is not flat.

Well, you're just stupid.

This is what ad hominem is.

Right. Review above. Exactly what happened.

Vapirko

There are definitely still far too many stambaldes especially bow users. Snipe needs to be toned way down damage wise or it needs to have major fracture/defile tuned to minor in each case. Why ZOS added the buggy mess that is the magnum shot CC after just dealing with time prison is beyond me.

The issue with stamina NBs is the amount of really powerful secondary effects their attacks have. Built right into their combo they get major fracture from surprise attack, major defile, and 20% damage increase, and a stun from incap on top of an 8% damage increase and 10% stamina recovery for 20 seconds from grim focus which also procs one of the strongest single target burst abilities in the game and which is now insanely easy to proc. Their CC hits multiple targets AND snares AND gives minor main. I mean it’s a joke. Imagine if dizzy swing hit two targets, snared and provided minor maim. Or what if power of the light gave you minor berserk and stamina recovery? People would lose it. These are just the regular tools of a stambalde, no need to build out of your way or sacrifice any slots. No other class, not even stamina warden, gets so many effects from their class skills.

Sharee

Vapirko wrote: »

There are definitely still far too many stambaldes especially bow users. Snipe needs to be toned way down damage wise or it needs to have major fracture/defile tuned to minor in each case.

The fracture is already minor.

Vapirko

Sharee wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

There are definitely still far too many stambaldes especially bow users. Snipe needs to be toned way down damage wise or it needs to have major fracture/defile tuned to minor in each case.

The fracture is already minor.

Yeah sorry you’re right. Still far to strong for the distance. If you can find one of @Thogard recent streams you can see how brainless and crutchy that style of play is. He made a thread about it. Kind of ridiculous.

killimandrosb16_ESO

The @Thogard video sums it up about right. If we assume the majority of the playerbase are medium skilled players, with the current cc meta NB is the most forgiving class to play. I find myself playing it more and more until now I main it again. My personal opinion is, no class should have the tools to kill another class without the player controlling that class being able to react. Stunlock deaths were suppsed to be a part of failures from the past, last seen in WoW somewhere around 2008.

JinMori

Illuvatarr wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Stigant wrote: »

You know that there are undodgeable AoEs that also take NBs out of stealth, right? Bit to mention that StamNB has very limited amount of magicka to cloak continually as you describe it.
Try to roll StamBlade, if you don't have one already, and play it for a while on lvl 50 in PvP. Than come back.

1) selfrighteousness and pride, ok ... my opinion is the correct one. I do not agree

2) yeah ... so basically you 're keeping the tradition of magsorc complaining about StamBlades, and the other way around, alive.

1) We can agree to disagree. You seem like an intelligent poster. Surprised you made the logical fallacy of jumping to ad hominem.

2) You are assuming a lot here. This isn’t a complaint; it’s a suggestion in the interest of playing a balanced game.

You do not seem to understand what an ad hominem argument is, ill make you an example:

The Earth is not flat.

Well, you're just stupid.

This is what ad hominem is.

Right. Review above. Exactly what happened.

No, that's not what happened.

Offensive speech, which in this case wasn't, isn't always ad hominem.

Ad hominem strictly means that you didn't tackle the argument in any way and just resorted to attacks on the person.

Like the example iv'e made above.

Ad hominem is a logical fallacy and instantly invalidates your argument, people always use it as an excuse to shut down the other person even if he made a perfectly reasonable argument, just because he might have said something that could be taken as offensive, no, that's not how it works.

Thogard

Stamblade v 1 is way too strong

Stamblade in a group vs group setting is way too weak.

Fight discretion (ability to choose when and where to start the fight) is not factored in to balance calculations at all.

Being OP in unorganized combat does not balance out being underpowered in organized combat. It just makes them unbalanced on both sides (albeit in different directions)

Sparr0w

I've played all classes in pvp and stamblade is probably the hardest to play.

Snipe is what's broken, nightblades just play on that as they can cloak for a guaranteed crit, other than that any class can annoy with snipe.

Elwendryll

Illuvatarr wrote: »

I have been playing mmos for 20 years. I have never seen a more cheese class than nightblades. I have also never played a pvp mmo where the highest burst damage class in the game can continually turn invisible in a fight. It’s silly. I get beaten by better players who are nightblades without using sneak in combat. I am cool with that. The ability to use it in combat is pure cheese and completely imbalanced. It needs to be changed.

I don't want to neglect your experience on MMO or anything, but the ones I played had the highest burst damages on the classes that could turn invisible. (And on some the player could throw direct hits while staying invisible)
And they didn't have:
Detection potions
Mage Light and morphs
Expert hunter and morphs
Revealing flare and morphs
Piercing mark

On most of the MMOs, including this one, any damage can pull out of invisibility, you can simply no longer target the player.

There is a simple solution that works both for dodge roll and invisibility, and that is any AOE...

You have all the tools available to you. It's your choice not to pick it, not a major imbalance.

shezof

i absolutely hate nightblades and always seen them as my nemesis.But i only think cloak should be nerfed like increasing its cost much higher and cost goes up each time you use like streak does.their damage is understandable but staying cloaked as a stamina user is not

Crixus8000

Stamblades are strong yes, because they are well balanced in my opinion, where the other classes are not. The other classes should be changed to be brought in line with Stamblades imo.

Feanor

It’s a topic that will end as every thread in that regard has - nowhere. The forum NBs will point to “squishy” and “hard to play”, while the rest points out stealth is a crutch, NBs passives and class skills are overloaded, and no stun should hit for 10k+.

It’s a stalemate where the devs just sit back and do nothing.

Datthaw

frostz417 wrote: »

If they removed snipe from the game it would make PvP better. It’s completely stupid how you can stun using sneak/snipe but zos is like “wE d0NT wAnT hArDddd h1TinG aB1litIeZ StunNinG pEoPle” yet they never look at now snipe stuns you from stealth, not to mention how stupidly buggy it is and how it has ridiculous range. Why should someobody be able to use an ability that’s 40+ meters and does the same damage as dizzy swing. Not only that but either gives major defile or minor fracture/breach???? I also love how they nerf literally everything under the sun but never have they nerfed snipe once. Really makes me wonder if these brainless developers just want PvP to consist of snipe spammers. Before I trigger some hardcore snipe spamming zergling and get the “you can hear it and it has a cast time”
Yea ok try hearing snipe when you’re fighting multiple people and some kid 40+ meters away is just snipping away.
“You can easily dodge it”
Once again, fighting 3 others and they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots
Don’t even get me started on the health desync, just trot along in cyro or in BG’s and suddenly just go from 100% to 0% health in seconds as all 5 snipes all register at once but god forbid zos fixes that or even nerfs snipe. I swear the combat team all have the brain capacity of a jelly fish they are so incompetent.

This... everything said here, I concur, this guy knows what's up......

Snipe is the most bugged *** skill in the game

AntonShan

@Illuvatarr you should really begin investing your time into l2p rather than flooding QQ threads on the forum.

Aztlan

This is utter nonsense. Nightblade plays just as designed. You simply dislike the class and would prefer it be deleted. Ever heard of Magelight? Detect pots? Rune cage?

pdebie64b16_ESO

shezof wrote: »

i absolutely hate nightblades and always seen them as my nemesis.But i only think cloak should be nerfed like increasing its cost much higher and cost goes up each time you use like streak does.their damage is understandable but staying cloaked as a stamina user is not

Did you know that Stamblades can use cloak 3 times in a row before running out of magicka?

Hixtory

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Stamblades-The class is too strong in every way and the prevalence of people playing the class is ruining your game. I counted 15 stamblades today in between Nikel and Roe out of a total of 25 or so AD players.

1) Sneak should not be useable but once in combat and that is to escape. When someone goes into sneak/vanishes, projectiles currently in transit should hit them and not miss. It is pure cheese balancing. My understanding is the combat lead plays a stamblade, correct? I don't think he would balance based upon his personal preference but he might balance based upon failing to see how other classes function vis a vis this class. He might also be interested in leaving his mark on the game. This should be examined for balance.
2) Bow should be re-evaluated. It is currently the strongest ranged skill set in game and it gives an unfair advantage to stamina classes. A big part of this in the case of stamblades is the ability to snipe from stealth and then immediately re-enter stealth. Giving the primary melee stat the best ranged attacks as well as best ranged attacks is not serving your underlying mission of balancing the game.
3) Stamblade damage should be looked at. I have 30k physical resist on my toon and opening salvos from stamblades normally bring this down to 20 percent before I can react (through damage shields mind you). I imagine they are one shotting most other players. If the intent is for them to have the highest burst damage in game, understood. However, there should be a price for this level of damage output and it should be decreased survivability (like everyone else in game).
4) The class currently has two forms of binary damage mitigation. Sneak and Dodge, which can be used effectively an infinite number of times in combat if specced correctly. It is pure cheese balancing. No other class has close to this level of survivability. A good way to balance this is point one above and to limit the number of attacks that can be dodged with any one given dodge.

Mag Sorcs-

1) Overload light attacks should not be reflectable. Its an ultimate.

My post for the day.

LOL

CompM4s

My only minor complaint about nb’s stealth is how they immediately can vanish when you are on top of them. I wish they had a minimum distance they had to be to go invisible. Maybe like 5m. Something reasonable that would not completely destroy the nightblades.

Weps

CompM4s wrote: »

My only minor complaint about nb’s stealth is how they immediately can vanish when you are on top of them. I wish they had a minimum distance they had to be to go invisible. Maybe like 5m. Something reasonable that would not completely destroy the nightblades.

Of all the "PLZ NERF CLOAK" posts, this is the only reasonable and balanced thing I heard.
I could agree if it goes this way. Anything added on top of this way is overkill

Galarthor

Stigant wrote: »

You know that there are undodgeable AoEs that also take NBs out of stealth, right? Bit to mention that StamNB has very limited amount of magicka to cloak continually as you describe it.
Try to roll StamBlade, if you don't have one already, and play it for a while on lvl 50 in PvP. Than come back.
Edit: to word better what I meant

Those undodgeable AoEs you Stamblades like to cite are very class / build specific and many classes don't have access to a viable one - i.e. something that does not have huge opportunity costs.

Asking people to slot AoE abilities that are otherwise useless just to counter NB cloak is like asking people to slot a certain ability just to be able to deal damage to shields or people with a HoT on themselves. It's a ridiculous demand and very poor balancing.

The problem is also very Stamblade specific, as cloak allows them to mostly negate the cost increase on dodge roll enabaling them to perma-dodge.

At the same time you can't really take the protective / dodge roll-like property of cloak away from Magblades. The obvious solution is to have Cloak only negate damage when you reach a certain threshold of max magicka. That way Stamblades will finally cease to be untouchable, while Magblades retain their primary defense.

I know, the Stamblade forum warriors will cry about such a suggestion, but you guys were also cry about how weak your class is and how OP everybody else is when you were one-shotting people from sneak during your proc-set ***.

Illuvatarr

Elwendryll wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

I have been playing mmos for 20 years. I have never seen a more cheese class than nightblades. I have also never played a pvp mmo where the highest burst damage class in the game can continually turn invisible in a fight. It’s silly. I get beaten by better players who are nightblades without using sneak in combat. I am cool with that. The ability to use it in combat is pure cheese and completely imbalanced. It needs to be changed.

I don't want to neglect your experience on MMO or anything, but the ones I played had the highest burst damages on the classes that could turn invisible. (And on some the player could throw direct hits while staying invisible)
And they didn't have:
Detection potions
Mage Light and morphs
Expert hunter and morphs
Revealing flare and morphs
Piercing mark

On most of the MMOs, including this one, any damage can pull out of invisibility, you can simply no longer target the player.

There is a simple solution that works both for dodge roll and invisibility, and that is any AOE...

You have all the tools available to you. It's your choice not to pick it, not a major imbalance.

Yes that isnt what I said. I said the ability to cloak over and over again during the middle of combat. My experience has well has been the stealther classes had highest burst but once out of stealth, out of stealth.

thankyourat

Thogard wrote: »

Stamblade v 1 is way too strong

Stamblade in a group vs group setting is way too weak.

Fight discretion (ability to choose when and where to start the fight) is not factored in to balance calculations at all.

Being OP in unorganized combat does not balance out being underpowered in organized combat. It just makes them unbalanced on both sides (albeit in different directions)

I Don't think stamblade is too strong 1v1 though. There are multiple classes I think that are stronger 1v1. Stamblade shines in 1vX. It's possible to shine in 1v1 but they'll have to fight builds that are inherently weak to stamblade like medium builds with low regen. Once you start getting into min/max builds (actual 1v1 builds) stamblades really aren't any stronger than other classes and are actually weaker than some classes that people think are weak like magden, stamplar.

With that being said I can see why people think stamblades are strong because most players in cyrodiil are either running a solo build so they can't min/max or they are running a group support build both of witch can have a have problems against a stamblade. I'm not so sure if that means it needs to be nerfed. is being strong in unorganized combat really all that op. That's basically like saying stamblade is good against bad players. Since most good players either play solo or play in some form of an organized group.

Dojohoda

I'm skeptical. Sure, stamblades are like gods, but every time nerfs come around, magblades and healblades are on the receiving end. We were all but gutted this last go-round of nerfs.

My opinion is that the team cannot balance stamblade without destroying magblade.

Illuvatarr

JinMori wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Stigant wrote: »

You know that there are undodgeable AoEs that also take NBs out of stealth, right? Bit to mention that StamNB has very limited amount of magicka to cloak continually as you describe it.
Try to roll StamBlade, if you don't have one already, and play it for a while on lvl 50 in PvP. Than come back.

1) selfrighteousness and pride, ok ... my opinion is the correct one. I do not agree

2) yeah ... so basically you 're keeping the tradition of magsorc complaining about StamBlades, and the other way around, alive.

1) We can agree to disagree. You seem like an intelligent poster. Surprised you made the logical fallacy of jumping to ad hominem.

2) You are assuming a lot here. This isn’t a complaint; it’s a suggestion in the interest of playing a balanced game.

You do not seem to understand what an ad hominem argument is, ill make you an example:

The Earth is not flat.

Well, you're just stupid.

This is what ad hominem is.

Right. Review above. Exactly what happened.

No, that's not what happened.

Offensive speech, which in this case wasn't, isn't always ad hominem.

Ad hominem strictly means that you didn't tackle the argument in any way and just resorted to attacks on the person.

Like the example iv'e made above.

Ad hominem is a logical fallacy and instantly invalidates your argument, people always use it as an excuse to shut down the other person even if he made a perfectly reasonable argument, just because he might have said something that could be taken as offensive, no, that's not how it works.

I had a series of arguments. Mutually exclusive arguments. One of those arguments was ignored and an ad hominem attack was issued. As stated before.

gepe87

Next time you see a stamblade just ignore him and run. They will pursue you till they get out stam.

Sevn

No more nerfs! Can't believe NB's, stamblades at that are still causing so many problems. I see em all the time cloaking in and out trying to get kills from afar. They melt like butter when you shine a little light on them which I routinely do lol. Barely use my NB for pvp anymore but no more nerfs!