StamDK PvP setup question?

Valykc

Hello everyone,
I’ve been trying out many setups on my StamDK lately for CP and Non-CP PvP. Currently I’m running Seventh, Shackle, Bloodspawn ( 5 Heavy, 1 Medium, 1 Light). My fully buffed weapon damage was like 4.5K but could be higher with gold weapons and infused jewelry. I feel like I have trouble killing people solo, like my weapon damage or penetration is too low. I have 30k health in Cyrodiil which feels excessive.

I heard that Fury was better for DK than Seventh is so I was thinking about pairing it with Bone Pirate to have a higher stamina pool. My main question is should I go 5 medium or 5 Heavy? What have you guys found more reliable/better in Cyrodiil? I would assume that due to the proc conditions of Fury that 5 Heavy would be more beneficial but just wanted to confirm first.

Also, I’d plan on running 2H/SnB

Thanks!

Bashev

5 Medium (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Change Fury with Seventh. The average weapon damage will be better. When you have 30k health then go medium. I use heavy mainly for health. Use shuffle, the damage reduction is great.

Valykc

Bashev wrote: »

Change Fury with Seventh. The average weapon damage will be better. When you have 30k health then go medium. I use heavy mainly for health. Use shuffle, the damage reduction is great.

Ok I’ll give that a shot. Do you find Seventh procs reliably or should I try something like Veiled Heritance which procs off of doing damage instead of taking it?

Bashev

5 Medium (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Valykc wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Change Fury with Seventh. The average weapon damage will be better. When you have 30k health then go medium. I use heavy mainly for health. Use shuffle, the damage reduction is great.

Ok I’ll give that a shot. Do you find Seventh procs reliably or should I try something like Veiled Heritance which procs off of doing damage instead of taking it?

I play with seventh and ravager. Seventh procs a lot. Also it works well with troll king.

If ravager was medium i would definitely go medium but sadly it is not. I play with light attack ransank bash build and ravager procs almost immediately.

+2m range to mele abilities is really nice for stam DK.

Valykc

Bashev wrote: »

Valykc wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Change Fury with Seventh. The average weapon damage will be better. When you have 30k health then go medium. I use heavy mainly for health. Use shuffle, the damage reduction is great.

Ok I’ll give that a shot. Do you find Seventh procs reliably or should I try something like Veiled Heritance which procs off of doing damage instead of taking it?

I play with seventh and ravager. Seventh procs a lot. Also it works well with troll king.

If ravager was medium i would definitely go medium but sadly it is not. I play with light attack ransank bash build and ravager procs almost immediately.

+2m range to mele abilities is really nice for stam DK.

Ah ok nice!

Qbiken

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

Bashev

5 Medium (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

But sometimes when I chase some retreating player in BG i need that extra damage to finish him/her faster. That is why I like one set procing on doing damage and one set procing on receiving damage.

I found that seventh works better for me than fury.

Valykc

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

I tried that and my sustain was terrible lol

Valykc

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

But sometimes when I chase some retreating player in BG i need that extra damage to finish him/her faster. That is why I like one set procing on doing damage and one set procing on receiving damage.

I found that seventh works better for me than fury.

How’s your sustain using two damage sets?

Bashev

5 Medium (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Valykc wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

But sometimes when I chase some retreating player in BG i need that extra damage to finish him/her faster. That is why I like one set procing on doing damage and one set procing on receiving damage.

I found that seventh works better for me than fury.

How’s your sustain using two damage sets?

I am using 3 cost reduction glyphs. So my sustain for attacking is really good. The defensive skills are more expensive but still I am ok.

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Valykc wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

But sometimes when I chase some retreating player in BG i need that extra damage to finish him/her faster. That is why I like one set procing on doing damage and one set procing on receiving damage.

I found that seventh works better for me than fury.

How’s your sustain using two damage sets?

I finished my 7th / sloads / troll king build 2 days ago. I don't like snb, so I use dual wield with stam enchant off-hand. No sustain issue so far, altough it's pretty new. If I have some, I will just swap 1 WD glyph for a stam regen glyph.

I feel like sloads is better than ravager on DK, since all your dots can proc it, while only the initial hit can proc ravager. I even read somewhere that claw itinial hit didn't proc it. I never tested it though.

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Sry double post

Bashev

5 Medium (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Swomp23 wrote: »

Valykc wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

But sometimes when I chase some retreating player in BG i need that extra damage to finish him/her faster. That is why I like one set procing on doing damage and one set procing on receiving damage.

I found that seventh works better for me than fury.

How’s your sustain using two damage sets?

I finished my 7th / sloads / troll king build 2 days ago. I don't like snb, so I use dual wield with stam enchant off-hand. No sustain issue so far, altough it's pretty new. If I have some, I will just swap 1 WD glyph for a stam regen glyph.

I feel like sloads is better than ravager on DK, since all your dots can proc it, while only the initial hit can proc ravager. I even read somewhere that claw itinial hit didn't proc it. I never tested it though.

I dont use proc damage sets. Ravagers works great for me with my combo.

Hochstapler

I main sDK atm and I've tested many armor sets and builds until I figured out what worked best for the class design and my play style.
I discarded bone-pirate, 7th, Fury and ravager right off the bat and using medium never even crossed my mind.

The way I see it, medium armor is ideal for dodge-roll/cloak/glass canon type of game play, a Stamblade basically and that's where it's usefullness ends.

DK's skills and passives are designed for a Tanky (heavy armor) CC and DoT class and that's exactly what DK is and how it should be played to get most out of the class.

I'm starting to see why forum warriors consider sDK underperforming class in PVP when in fact, in the right hands it's still the king and it's not even close.


Just take a look at Bone-pirate.
Nice stamina regen yes BUT you are restricted to useing a drink which costs you 4k+ magicka compared to 3 stat food which you desperatly need on a DK because every defensive skill is magicka based, including wings, your primary counter to ranged damage.
Also, stamina doesn't regen while you are blocking, which is DKs primary way of damage mitigation since you aren't dodge rolling and sneaking on a DK, you tank it up my man.
I'd say stamina set isn't paramount on a DK but if you really can't do without, hulk's is a much beter option for a DK.

My advice is, try to think and test things for yourself instead of listening to forum warriors, including myself lol.
Just follow simple logics and the ideas behind the design of the class and you'll get there.

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Bashev wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Valykc wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

But sometimes when I chase some retreating player in BG i need that extra damage to finish him/her faster. That is why I like one set procing on doing damage and one set procing on receiving damage.

I found that seventh works better for me than fury.

How’s your sustain using two damage sets?

I finished my 7th / sloads / troll king build 2 days ago. I don't like snb, so I use dual wield with stam enchant off-hand. No sustain issue so far, altough it's pretty new. If I have some, I will just swap 1 WD glyph for a stam regen glyph.

I feel like sloads is better than ravager on DK, since all your dots can proc it, while only the initial hit can proc ravager. I even read somewhere that claw itinial hit didn't proc it. I never tested it though.

I dont use proc damage sets. Ravagers works great for me with my combo.

I totally respect that, but I have no shame in using them since I'm pretty new to pvp and I'm still learning. It seemed to me that OP was in the same position, hence my suggestion.

What combo are you using for ravager to proc consistently, if you don't mind?

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Hochstapler wrote: »

I main sDK atm and I've tested many armor sets and builds until I figured out what worked best for the class design and my play style.
I discarded bone-pirate, 7th, Fury and ravager right off the bat and using medium never even crossed my mind.

The way I see it, medium armor is ideal for dodge-roll/cloak/glass canon type of game play, a Stamblade basically and that's where it's usefullness ends.

DK's skills and passives are designed for a Tanky (heavy armor) CC and DoT class and that's exactly what DK is and how it should be played to get most out of the class.

I'm starting to see why forum warriors consider sDK underperforming class in PVP when in fact, in the right hands it's still the king and it's not even close.


Just take a look at Bone-pirate.
Nice stamina regen yes BUT you are restricted to useing a drink which costs you 4k+ magicka compared to 3 stat food which you desperatly need on a DK because every defensive skill is magicka based, including wings, your primary counter to ranged damage.
Also, stamina doesn't regen while you are blocking, which is DKs primary way of damage mitigation since you aren't dodge rolling and sneaking on a DK, you tank it up my man.
I'd say stamina set isn't paramount on a DK but if you really can't do without, hulk's is a much beter option for a DK.

You have high weapon damage but have problems killing players (your words) because you play your sDK as a Stamblade, which it isn't.

My advice is, try to think and test things for yourself instead of listening to forum warriors, including myself lol.
Just follow simple logics and the ideas behind the design of the class and you'll get there.

Your explanation on Bone Pirate is very insightful. Mind giving the same explanation for 7th, ravager and fury? They look like they can give sDK the edge they lack without sacrificing too much tankiness, since they're all heavy armor.

fred4

So Hochstapler tells us what not to do, poos on some well-regarded sets, but doesn't tell us what he's actually running. One thing I do agree on is that your preferred playstyle matters a lot.

Fury is a 1vX set. It is good if you are constantly getting hit. Perhaps you are one of those guys running around a tower, scrambling to stay alive, while you look for opportunities to counter-attack. Well then that might work.

I'm not that good. I play a lot in IC, in CP. I might win the occasional 1v2, but generally I look for 1v1 or I start grouping up and try to get even / balanced fights. That's just the reality of it, otherwise I die.

My stam DK playstyle evolved from duelling. Not recent duelling, but dating back to One Tamriel. I attack, but when my buffs are up, or I'm under too much pressure, I run and flap wings. I like speed. Was using speed potions long before the Swift meta, and I prefer medium armor by a long shot, not least because of the sprint speed. While I don't play my stam DK much anymore, a friend has taken up the same build and tells me it's one of his most successful open world characters.

Fortified Brass, medium, is a staple of my builds. You could substitute Pariah or Impregnable. For the DK I run Ransack, Reverb Bash, Venomous Claw and Flames of Oblivion, with Take Flight and Reverse Slice on the other bar for burst / execute. Forward Momentum and Swift jewelry was standard last patch. This patch Steed Mundus and maybe Protective looks like what we're left with. To get reasonable sustain for wings you need 800 to 1K mag regen. I tend to run Shacklebreaker as the second set and I've actually run the Atronach mundus in the past. For the monster set Troll King, Blood Spawn and Selene all work.

Bashev

5 Medium (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Swomp23 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Valykc wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

But sometimes when I chase some retreating player in BG i need that extra damage to finish him/her faster. That is why I like one set procing on doing damage and one set procing on receiving damage.

I found that seventh works better for me than fury.

How’s your sustain using two damage sets?

I finished my 7th / sloads / troll king build 2 days ago. I don't like snb, so I use dual wield with stam enchant off-hand. No sustain issue so far, altough it's pretty new. If I have some, I will just swap 1 WD glyph for a stam regen glyph.

I feel like sloads is better than ravager on DK, since all your dots can proc it, while only the initial hit can proc ravager. I even read somewhere that claw itinial hit didn't proc it. I never tested it though.

I dont use proc damage sets. Ravagers works great for me with my combo.

I totally respect that, but I have no shame in using them since I'm pretty new to pvp and I'm still learning. It seemed to me that OP was in the same position, hence my suggestion.

What combo are you using for ravager to proc consistently, if you don't mind?

Light attack, ransack, bash every second. With 7m range to ransack and 9m to light attack and bash, it is not so difficult to land them. I also use heroic slash to slow and reduce their damage. It is 3 hits per second. Ravager proc very often.

fred4

Swomp23 wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

I main sDK atm and I've tested many armor sets and builds until I figured out what worked best for the class design and my play style.
I discarded bone-pirate, 7th, Fury and ravager right off the bat and using medium never even crossed my mind.

The way I see it, medium armor is ideal for dodge-roll/cloak/glass canon type of game play, a Stamblade basically and that's where it's usefullness ends.

DK's skills and passives are designed for a Tanky (heavy armor) CC and DoT class and that's exactly what DK is and how it should be played to get most out of the class.

I'm starting to see why forum warriors consider sDK underperforming class in PVP when in fact, in the right hands it's still the king and it's not even close.


Just take a look at Bone-pirate.
Nice stamina regen yes BUT you are restricted to useing a drink which costs you 4k+ magicka compared to 3 stat food which you desperatly need on a DK because every defensive skill is magicka based, including wings, your primary counter to ranged damage.
Also, stamina doesn't regen while you are blocking, which is DKs primary way of damage mitigation since you aren't dodge rolling and sneaking on a DK, you tank it up my man.
I'd say stamina set isn't paramount on a DK but if you really can't do without, hulk's is a much beter option for a DK.

You have high weapon damage but have problems killing players (your words) because you play your sDK as a Stamblade, which it isn't.

My advice is, try to think and test things for yourself instead of listening to forum warriors, including myself lol.
Just follow simple logics and the ideas behind the design of the class and you'll get there.

Your explanation on Bone Pirate is very insightful.

Is it though? Please examine this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

Bone Pirate is highly regarded for a reason and is mathematically better than Hulking, if you happen to build around drinks. There are two build approaches. Build with drinks, such as Dubious or dual / triple regen drinks, or build with tri-stat food. The latter is very good statistically. Whereas a drink, like Dubious, has a factor of around 8x the strength of a single armor stat buff, tri-food has a factor of 11x. In that sense Hochstapler is correct. However people building with drinks have some very stat-efficient mechanisms to compensate for that, namely Bone Pirate, Shacklebreaker, and tri-stat glyphs. Basically, if you use tri-food, and you feel that gives you enough health / magicka that you don't go for 7x Hakeijo enchants on gear, then you could also have built with drinks, Hakeijo enchants, and Bone Pirate, achieving much the same stats. There isn't much in it.

A reason I like drinks is that they buff your idle recoveries, whereas regen set and jewelry bonuses do not. Being on a drink means you recover magicka / stamina faster, while out of combat, than being on the equivalent food setup with regen bonuses on gear. This is noticeable in buff-heavy builds, while you maintain your buffs out of combat, and for out of combat nightblade cloak sustain.

Hochstapler

Swomp23 wrote: »

Your explanation on Bone Pirate is very insightful. Mind giving the same explanation for 7th, ravager and fury? They look like they can give sDK the edge they lack without sacrificing too much tankiness, since they're all heavy armor.

They are clearly designed for a heavy brawler type of gameplay and are all great sets for that, (ravager is probably BiS dps set for a medium stamblade as well if you use the weapons and jewelery instead of the armor pieces).

I'm not dising those sets ( I have full sets of 7th and Rav in my bank) I'm just saying that they aren't ideal for my current play style.

Facts about pairing stamina regen sets with S&B blocking being a useless endeavour still stand though.

Hochstapler

fred4 wrote: »

Is it though? Please examine this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

Bone Pirate is highly regarded for a reason and is mathematically better than Hulking, if you happen to build around drinks.

This is true.
I have a Stamblade that happen to build around drinks.
He doesn't enter a battlefield without his BP set.

On a S&B heavy DK that supposedly needs to block often though ,(stamina doesn't regen while you are holding block) you are sacrificing 951 hp, 4105 magicka (all important defensive skills on a DK use it) and 2548 stamina (your main resource for most of your skills including blocking) for whooping 279 stamina regen that doesn't do anything for you in combat while blocking.
This is BP+Camoran throne vs Hulk+Longfin pasty comparation.

(3x gold jewelery glyphs add 507 stamina regen.)

Not a hard choice really.

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

fred4 wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

I main sDK atm and I've tested many armor sets and builds until I figured out what worked best for the class design and my play style.
I discarded bone-pirate, 7th, Fury and ravager right off the bat and using medium never even crossed my mind.

The way I see it, medium armor is ideal for dodge-roll/cloak/glass canon type of game play, a Stamblade basically and that's where it's usefullness ends.

DK's skills and passives are designed for a Tanky (heavy armor) CC and DoT class and that's exactly what DK is and how it should be played to get most out of the class.

I'm starting to see why forum warriors consider sDK underperforming class in PVP when in fact, in the right hands it's still the king and it's not even close.


Just take a look at Bone-pirate.
Nice stamina regen yes BUT you are restricted to useing a drink which costs you 4k+ magicka compared to 3 stat food which you desperatly need on a DK because every defensive skill is magicka based, including wings, your primary counter to ranged damage.
Also, stamina doesn't regen while you are blocking, which is DKs primary way of damage mitigation since you aren't dodge rolling and sneaking on a DK, you tank it up my man.
I'd say stamina set isn't paramount on a DK but if you really can't do without, hulk's is a much beter option for a DK.

You have high weapon damage but have problems killing players (your words) because you play your sDK as a Stamblade, which it isn't.

My advice is, try to think and test things for yourself instead of listening to forum warriors, including myself lol.
Just follow simple logics and the ideas behind the design of the class and you'll get there.

Your explanation on Bone Pirate is very insightful.

Is it though? Please examine this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

Bone Pirate is highly regarded for a reason and is mathematically better than Hulking, if you happen to build around drinks. There are two build approaches. Build with drinks, such as Dubious or dual / triple regen drinks, or build with tri-stat food. The latter is very good statistically. Whereas a drink, like Dubious, has a factor of around 8x the strength of a single armor stat buff, tri-food has a factor of 11x. In that sense Hochstapler is correct. However people building with drinks have some very stat-efficient mechanisms to compensate for that, namely Bone Pirate, Shacklebreaker, and tri-stat glyphs. Basically, if you use tri-food, and you feel that gives you enough health / magicka that you don't go for 7x Hakeijo enchants on gear, then you could also have built with drinks, Hakeijo enchants, and Bone Pirate, achieving much the same stats. There isn't much in it.

A reason I like drinks is that they buff your idle recoveries, whereas regen set and jewelry bonuses do not. Being on a drink means you recover magicka / stamina faster, while out of combat, than being on the equivalent food setup with regen bonuses on gear. This is noticeable in buff-heavy builds, while you maintain your buffs out of combat, and for out of combat nightblade cloak sustain.

Very interesting number crunching, although his argument about no regen when blocking is something numbers can't show. I'm not debating wether he's right or wrong, it's just that he emitted an opinion we rarely see with a valid argument and I was curious to hear his arguments on the other 3 sets.

@Hochstapler You say that 7th, rav and fury don't fit your current playstyle. What's that playstyle, where you don't gain advantage of massive WD proc wether you take or deal damage?

What's your build and playstyle?

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Bashev wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Valykc wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Why choose between 7th and Fury when you can use both

But sometimes when I chase some retreating player in BG i need that extra damage to finish him/her faster. That is why I like one set procing on doing damage and one set procing on receiving damage.

I found that seventh works better for me than fury.

How’s your sustain using two damage sets?

I finished my 7th / sloads / troll king build 2 days ago. I don't like snb, so I use dual wield with stam enchant off-hand. No sustain issue so far, altough it's pretty new. If I have some, I will just swap 1 WD glyph for a stam regen glyph.

I feel like sloads is better than ravager on DK, since all your dots can proc it, while only the initial hit can proc ravager. I even read somewhere that claw itinial hit didn't proc it. I never tested it though.

I dont use proc damage sets. Ravagers works great for me with my combo.

I totally respect that, but I have no shame in using them since I'm pretty new to pvp and I'm still learning. It seemed to me that OP was in the same position, hence my suggestion.

What combo are you using for ravager to proc consistently, if you don't mind?

Light attack, ransack, bash every second. With 7m range to ransack and 9m to light attack and bash, it is not so difficult to land them. I also use heroic slash to slow and reduce their damage. It is 3 hits per second. Ravager proc very often.

Thank you for your answer. Here, have an insightful.

I never liked snb play, but I guess it's more of a l2p issue. Will have to try it one day.

Hochstapler

Swomp23 wrote: »

@Hochstapler You say that 7th, rav and fury don't fit your current playstyle. What's that playstyle, where you don't gain advantage of massive WD proc wether you take or deal damage?

Stacking weapon damage means you are going for a burst build, which makes sense.
The problem is that WD is only one of the five dps components you need to add to your build in order to burst them fast and efficient.
WD, Crit, Pen, stamina and resists debuffs.
So on a S&B Heavy Dk wearing 7th, ravager or Fury you have 3 of those covered.
Crit comes from medium armor passives so heavy DK has notoriously low crit chance and penetration isn't very good.
So to add crit and pen to the mix you need to give up tankiness , sustain and survivability and before you know it you are building a glass canon in which case you are much better off playing a medium stamblade.

Heavy armor WD stacking burst build isnt't balanced imo, so I'm not surprised when OP says:
"My fully buffed weapon damage was like 4.5K but could be higher with gold weapons and infused jewelry. I feel like I have trouble killing people solo, like my weapon damage or penetration is too low"

I play my StamDK in the most straightforward and obvious way you play a tank.
- Defence or sustain set.
This is where you have most choice because there are a lot of good heavy tanky sets in game, allthough I'm partial to Impreg.

- Monster sets.
Very flexible slots as well, I use Troll-King, Earthgore, Bloodspawn and Selene regularly and about 6 more sets not so regularly.

- Damage dealing set
Since my WD, pen and crit suck donkey balls obvious first choice is a dot set allthough if you go DW, Torug's is still awesome, I was using it before it was cool and after the enchant fiasco, it still dishes out good damage.
Using axes is a must as well as any dot you can posibly slot on your bars.

Slot a bunch of different CC (DK specialty) and voila, a balanced DK char doing DK things like tanking, blocking and CCing people while still dealing respectable damage.
No burst but you don't have to be in a rush because you are tanky enough to apply dots and bleeds then turtle up and watch them lose health at a surprisingly fast rate (given you have the right skills and weapons sloted)

In BGs my average is 10-20 kills vs 0-3 deaths.
I usually die when alone and focused by full enemy group or more.

fred4

Swomp23 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

I main sDK atm and I've tested many armor sets and builds until I figured out what worked best for the class design and my play style.
I discarded bone-pirate, 7th, Fury and ravager right off the bat and using medium never even crossed my mind.

The way I see it, medium armor is ideal for dodge-roll/cloak/glass canon type of game play, a Stamblade basically and that's where it's usefullness ends.

DK's skills and passives are designed for a Tanky (heavy armor) CC and DoT class and that's exactly what DK is and how it should be played to get most out of the class.

I'm starting to see why forum warriors consider sDK underperforming class in PVP when in fact, in the right hands it's still the king and it's not even close.


Just take a look at Bone-pirate.
Nice stamina regen yes BUT you are restricted to useing a drink which costs you 4k+ magicka compared to 3 stat food which you desperatly need on a DK because every defensive skill is magicka based, including wings, your primary counter to ranged damage.
Also, stamina doesn't regen while you are blocking, which is DKs primary way of damage mitigation since you aren't dodge rolling and sneaking on a DK, you tank it up my man.
I'd say stamina set isn't paramount on a DK but if you really can't do without, hulk's is a much beter option for a DK.

You have high weapon damage but have problems killing players (your words) because you play your sDK as a Stamblade, which it isn't.

My advice is, try to think and test things for yourself instead of listening to forum warriors, including myself lol.
Just follow simple logics and the ideas behind the design of the class and you'll get there.

Your explanation on Bone Pirate is very insightful.

Is it though? Please examine this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427111/stat-based-armor-set-rankings

Bone Pirate is highly regarded for a reason and is mathematically better than Hulking, if you happen to build around drinks. There are two build approaches. Build with drinks, such as Dubious or dual / triple regen drinks, or build with tri-stat food. The latter is very good statistically. Whereas a drink, like Dubious, has a factor of around 8x the strength of a single armor stat buff, tri-food has a factor of 11x. In that sense Hochstapler is correct. However people building with drinks have some very stat-efficient mechanisms to compensate for that, namely Bone Pirate, Shacklebreaker, and tri-stat glyphs. Basically, if you use tri-food, and you feel that gives you enough health / magicka that you don't go for 7x Hakeijo enchants on gear, then you could also have built with drinks, Hakeijo enchants, and Bone Pirate, achieving much the same stats. There isn't much in it.

A reason I like drinks is that they buff your idle recoveries, whereas regen set and jewelry bonuses do not. Being on a drink means you recover magicka / stamina faster, while out of combat, than being on the equivalent food setup with regen bonuses on gear. This is noticeable in buff-heavy builds, while you maintain your buffs out of combat, and for out of combat nightblade cloak sustain.

Very interesting number crunching, although his argument about no regen when blocking is something numbers can't show. I'm not debating wether he's right or wrong, it's just that he emitted an opinion we rarely see with a valid argument and I was curious to hear his arguments on the other 3 sets.

@Hochstapler You say that 7th, rav and fury don't fit your current playstyle. What's that playstyle, where you don't gain advantage of massive WD proc wether you take or deal damage?

What's your build and playstyle?

OK, he likes a blocking playstyle, a big stamina pool (Hulking), damage over time, and heavy attacks. That meams resources from heavy armor and ulti (being a DK). Let's play a guessing game. I bet on Hulking + Blood Spawn, and the question is the remaining heavy set.

Cyrodiil's Crest, recently buffed, 8.8K (PvE) health every 5 seconds sounds promising.
Brass, Pariah, Impregnable are all solid tanky choices. Maybe a little too tanky.
Sloads is probably still the best DOT pressure set for PvP.
Black Rose? Some people still use it in 7 heavy.

Or it's not Hulking, cause a 3x Agility + Asylum 2H setup would also be a good DK setup.

I can't decide.

P.S. Was too slow posting this. I see we got our answer.

Hochstapler

Haha Fred knows his ESO.

In the end, the most important factor that decides a PVP fight is player skill and experience, especially in ESO with the awesome active blocking and dodging mechanics that I like so much.

A good and experienced player can make any gear/class and race work and can probably kill potatos naked.
Most important thing is to keep your composure and not panic when ambushed or attacked ( you KNOW you button smash sometimes when jumped, we all do)

Gear is just a bonus, skill choices matter a bit more, player skill level and experience is paramount.

I'm done with this thread, tyvm and have a good night, GG

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

@Hochstapler I dont see why you say stacking WP is for burst build. Imo, its the best stat to boost for a brawler, as it scales for your damage AND healing. Stam also plays this role, but the scaling is not as good, so when you reach a certain treshold where u have enough to sustain, you better pump wd. Crit scales even better than wd, but with everyone running impen, I feel it’s not as good, unless you’re a nb or templar. We have penetration left, which scales better than anything, but is worthless for the heals. So I would say that it’s penetration that is the best stat for a glass canon burst build, and wd is the best for brawlers (with stam).

As for a balanced build, this is how I view it. Troll king for defense, 7th for offense with a pinch of defense (heal proc and health regen) and sloads for offense with a pinch of utility (magicka). I lack a sustain set, but I can spare a jewelry glyph on regen since I have 2 offense sets and since I play DW front bar, I can slot a stam absorb glyph on my offhand. With a couple of heavies, I never run out of stam unless I’m mindlessly sprinting. I’m not nearly as tanky as you with your impreg, but my bet is that I can kill opponents faster. How is your build doing in duels? Don’t you have a hard time killing opponents that know what they’re doing? Or maybe you’r not that interested in duels.

As for the gameplay, I also lean towards a high pressure build with a lot of dots. Breath for fracture, making up for my lack of pen, claw, quick cloak and twin slashes. Disease enchant on main hand for a chance at major defile. Dbos at low health for execute. The only thing I cant decide on is my spammable. I can’t land dizzy consistently, so for now I rely on flying blade, altough not optimal. Hardest opponent is templar that can just purge all this with the press of a button.

I saw someone suggest venom claw as a spammable, given how cheap it is now, but the damage seems lackluster, and you miiss the dmg increase with duration, so I’m not sold.

Anyway thx both of you for your answers. I’m still a pvp noob and having different point of views is nice to have when I try to theorycraft on my way to work

fred4

Swomp23 wrote: »

As for the gameplay, I also lean towards a high pressure build with a lot of dots. Breath for fracture, making up for my lack of pen, claw, quick cloak and twin slashes. Disease enchant on main hand for a chance at major defile. Dbos at low health for execute. The only thing I cant decide on is my spammable. I can’t land dizzy consistently, so for now I rely on flying blade, altough not optimal. Hardest opponent is templar that can just purge all this with the press of a button.

I ran my DK DW / 2H for the longest time. Then I looked at combat logs from DKs who easily defeated me. They ran 1H+S. I switched. It is far superior. The stats on Ransack / Pierce Armor look terrible. No matter. You get the penetration. You incorporate bash into your weave. You CC and defile all the time with Reverb Bash. You synergise with DK blocking passive. It works better. Trust me. There are two ways of running that. Ransack + Venomous Claw or Heroic Slash + Noxious Breath. Take your pick. DboS is neck and neck with Take Flight. Either works well. Reverse Slash to finish.

Shrouded Daggers is a super nice skill to use in vMA, but poor against players. Just doesn't do enough damage. Flurry is decent-ish, but probably only a good choice on stamsorc, where it helps to activate Implosion, or if you are running an Infused Torug's build. Rending Slashes / Blood Craze, Quick Cloak and Steel Tornado are all good, I just don't think that playstyle suits DK.

I saw someone suggest venom claw as a spammable, given how cheap it is now, but the damage seems lackluster, and you miiss the dmg increase with duration, so I’m not sold.

Yeah, that's just a flat out no. It's a DOT. A long time back I duelled people who ran procs, such as Overwhelming Surge, and spammed the magicka morph of that skill to heal. That was once quite strong, but basically ... just ... no.

Hochstapler

Swomp , you are on the right track and mindset but let me make some suggestions.

Get combat metrics addon if you dont have it already and enter a random vet dungeon.
The idea is to measure the dps boost of a 500 WD proc on 7th legion and you cant do this on a target skeleton with 7th so you need to improvise.
Now spam Dizzy on few mobs for a minute , then drop one piece of armor and repeat the same.
Compare the damage difference both per hit and per minute to get a rough idea of what 7th does for you.
Then remember that the bonus damage is most noticable on big hits like Dizzy (which you say you can't land consistently in PVP anyway).
You can use fossilize to land Dizzy btw but let me get to the point.

I've tested 7th in BGs ( I do most of my build testing there) and while it gives 2 very nice bonuses it's very situational set, it has 10% proc chance so it's more of a 1vsX set then anything else AND you need to land those dizzy's to make most out of it.

You are using dual wield so if you swap 7th for Torug's you are going to see a big improvement in both dps and consistency.
DW axes with befoul enchant (for defile and nice damage) and Oblivion damage enchant , on 2h Axe bar either of those 2 will work.
This is still one of the highest performance setups for a heavy build and while it was silly OP until few weeks ago, it's just right after the fix.
Sloads works well with it but even without it is still good enough to score kills.
It's also a good idea to keep Selenes on you for situational purposes.
Good players will dodge it but it lands often.

As for spammable, you don't really need it but you can swap Dizzy for executioner i guess.
Claw is anything but a spamable for the reasons you gave.
It's a 'fire and forget' ability.
I tried flurry because it lands both enchants during the channel but it's meh, I didn't like it because it is a channel and expensive one of that.

Recap:
7th isn't doing all that much for you and there are better options.
For 2h/S&B is probably a keeper, just slot fossilize for easier dizzy landings.

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

fred4 wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

As for the gameplay, I also lean towards a high pressure build with a lot of dots. Breath for fracture, making up for my lack of pen, claw, quick cloak and twin slashes. Disease enchant on main hand for a chance at major defile. Dbos at low health for execute. The only thing I cant decide on is my spammable. I can’t land dizzy consistently, so for now I rely on flying blade, altough not optimal. Hardest opponent is templar that can just purge all this with the press of a button.

I ran my DK DW / 2H for the longest time. Then I looked at combat logs from DKs who easily defeated me. They ran 1H+S. I switched. It is far superior. The stats on Ransack / Pierce Armor look terrible. No matter. You get the penetration. You incorporate bash into your weave. You CC and defile all the time with Reverb Bash. You synergise with DK blocking passive. It works better. Trust me. There are two ways of running that. Ransack + Venomous Claw or Heroic Slash + Noxious Breath. Take your pick. DboS is neck and neck with Take Flight. Either works well. Reverse Slash to finish.

Shrouded Daggers is a super nice skill to use in vMA, but poor against players. Just doesn't do enough damage. Flurry is decent-ish, but probably only a good choice on stamsorc, where it helps to activate Implosion, or if you are running an Infused Torug's build. Rending Slashes / Blood Craze, Quick Cloak and Steel Tornado are all good, I just don't think that playstyle suits DK.

I saw someone suggest venom claw as a spammable, given how cheap it is now, but the damage seems lackluster, and you miiss the dmg increase with duration, so I’m not sold.

Yeah, that's just a flat out no. It's a DOT. A long time back I duelled people who ran procs, such as Overwhelming Surge, and spammed the magicka morph of that skill to heal. That was once quite strong, but basically ... just ... no.

Nice... Now I have to craft a *** shield What enchant do you run on your snb weapon? Stam absorb? And WD on 2H? Also, I'm not sure if I'll be able to reliably land la+skill+bash every second with a controller. Guess I'll have to git gud. For now Torugs is still broken on console, so I'll keep my DW, but when it's fixed I'll definitely try out snb more seriously.

Swomp23

5 Heavy (Fury, Bone Pirate, Bloodspawn)

Hochstapler wrote: »

Swomp , you are on the right track and mindset but let me make some suggestions.

Get combat metrics addon if you dont have it already and enter a random vet dungeon.
The idea is to measure the dps boost of a 500 WD proc on 7th legion and you cant do this on a target skeleton with 7th so you need to improvise.
Now spam Dizzy on few mobs for a minute , then drop one piece of armor and repeat the same.
Compare the damage difference both per hit and per minute to get a rough idea of what 7th does for you.
Then remember that the bonus damage is most noticable on big hits like Dizzy (which you say you can't land consistently in PVP anyway).
You can use fossilize to land Dizzy btw but let me get to the point.

I've tested 7th in BGs ( I do most of my build testing there) and while it gives 2 very nice bonuses it's very situational set, it has 10% proc chance so it's more of a 1vsX set then anything else AND you need to land those dizzy's to make most out of it.

You are using dual wield so if you swap 7th for Torug's you are going to see a big improvement in both dps and consistency.
DW axes with befoul enchant (for defile and nice damage) and Oblivion damage enchant , on 2h Axe bar either of those 2 will work.
This is still one of the highest performance setups for a heavy build and while it was silly OP until few weeks ago, it's just right after the fix.
Sloads works well with it but even without it is still good enough to score kills.
It's also a good idea to keep Selenes on you for situational purposes.
Good players will dodge it but it lands often.

As for spammable, you don't really need it but you can swap Dizzy for executioner i guess.
Claw is anything but a spamable for the reasons you gave.
It's a 'fire and forget' ability.
I tried flurry because it lands both enchants during the channel but it's meh, I didn't like it because it is a channel and expensive one of that.

Recap:
7th isn't doing all that much for you and there are better options.
For 2h/S&B is probably a keeper, just slot fossilize for easier dizzy landings

Unfortunately console pleb here, so no combat metrics. But in a BG, even in a duel with a couple DoTs on you, shouldn't 7th legion proc fairly regularly?
Here's the part I'm not sure : when 7th legion procs, all your currently running DoTs should tick higher right? I don't understand why you say 7th is only good with dizzy. It sould also be prettygood with the dbos+exec finisher combo. I guess I'll have to test more thoroughly.

About your part on Torugs : that's what I mainly use currently since it still procs on dot ticks on console. You say it is still viable after the fix? Even better that 7th?

Recap :
I currently have Torugs, Sloads or Hundings for my crafted set (I can make other 6-8pces sets)
I currently have Viper or 7th legion for my jewelry set
I'm not rich enough to craft jewelry, even more so if it's for testing purposes
I'd prefer overland (or buyable) sets to dungeon sets, as I'm kinda fed up with dungeons atm and I'm kind on a pvp high, so I dont really feel like farming.

@Hochstapler I know u gonna say sloads + impreg I currently have impreg gear listed in my trading guild, so I could justtake them out.

@fred4 and all the others, do you have good set combination proposition? I will stay open minded and accept propositions for snb + 2h, even if for now I prefer dw +2h.

Big thanks everyone!