Shield nerf for petsorcs: they didn’t consider how this would affect Maelstrom players

Undefwun

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Can someone find that video of a guy light attacking his way through vMA? We really need to have it pinned somewhere...

He used the phrase "Zero Abilities". That and "VMA" should let you search.

lol he posted the video right above this reply... smh

Locriana

Gundug wrote: »

It is possible to finish vMA as a magicka sorcerer without using shields at all. I have a light armor character (Julianos / Netch) I put together more like a stamina sorcerer, relying on the heal from power surge, and the extra mitigation from lightning form, with streak to avoid dangerous hits. I chose Valkyn Skoria for more health. Since most of the damage buffs are covered by skills in this case, I made potions that recover health as well, to help stay alive. I’m sure you could play around with sets and skills to make something that would work very well without having to rely on shields, or straight tanking sets.

I used to have a pet sorcerer for this pre-patch, and honestly, shields put them on a completely different level from everything else. I would power clear through levels without any understanding of the damage mechanics whatsoever, like shielding through the argonean behemoth’s scream.

Im sorry but I call bs on this part:
“shielding through the argonean behemoth’s scream.” is not possible, by design in vet Maelstrom. And yes we’ve all breezed through on normal without mechanics. Not what I’m talking about here, as normal isn’t even worth talking about.

I have also cleared vMA with my Magblade. Different characters are built differently with different tools and abilities. The magblade has speed and heals built into its dps skills. The sorc had shields, and the use of magicka for them divided with dps skills is a sustain issue. Etc, etc. My Magblade excelled in certain areas, like the crystals in final round, my sorc in others. Balance was already there.
Power surge in this patch, at least for me, does virtually nothing. Imho, they have screwed with more than is immediately evident.

TheKingofSass

Royaji wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Can someone find that video of a guy light attacking his way through vMA? We really need to have it pinned somewhere...

Probably @Gandork ....

Gandork's YouTube

28min run as stamblade when he goes for score. Naked run, Unarmed run, First Person run and other fun ways to run vMA...

Thank you, that was what I was looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO5zS5aMOow

He literally light-attacked his way through vMA. Saying that vMA is not easy with the amount of CPs we now have just because your shield is weaker is a learn to play issue.

Yes, light attacked, with relequen on. Let's not forget that.

Locriana

Royaji wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Can someone find that video of a guy light attacking his way through vMA? We really need to have it pinned somewhere...

Probably @Gandork ....

Gandork's YouTube

28min run as stamblade when he goes for score. Naked run, Unarmed run, First Person run and other fun ways to run vMA...

Thank you, that was what I was looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO5zS5aMOow

He literally light-attacked his way through vMA. Saying that vMA is not easy with the amount of CPs we now have just because your shield is weaker is a learn to play issue.

I said in my OP that I was not in the top 1% of players and that I struggled for a long time to be able to complete vMA. I have gone on to being able to do it with score runs, completing in single sessions. Not top scores, but respectable enough.

I said this to make it obvious that posting videos of guys clearing it naked with light attacks was not necessary to prove to me that vMA “is a learn to play issue”. But you had to get your dig in there, hope that does something for you.
It was not helpful to me.

I know every mechanic in there and all my killer pals by name, where they spawn, what they do, etc. because I have spent many hours ‘learning to play’. Some of us are less talented, and less young, and less...on PC. Believe me, your brain and your fingers won’t be as snappy as the years go on either. Enjoy while you can.

The rest of us still struggle, and it is challenging. And used to be an enjoyable challenge. Learning a character inside out and then having them nerf it constantly — and then this drastically, is not.

Locriana

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

@Locriana asks about compensation for petsorcs in vMA and the majority of comments are about how you either don't need to compensate or how easy normal mode is. /facepalm.

The mistake most people make is to assume vMA is a DPS race therefore you must use a glass cannon DD build to complete it. If you want a 560k+ score, sure. But if you are looking for a first clear or to farm it safely and easily, there are plenty of other options available.

BTW I'm using Plague Doctor on jewellery and weapons, so you still gain all the light armour passives, which are indeed indispensable. There are other sets which you could use to achieve the same effect, but the concept is straightforward: sacrifice some damage to become incredibly tanky and use strategic ultimates and sigils to kill the highest priority targets quickly.

Unless you are doing vMA so quickly that things die before they have a chance to attack, it is only natural that you must be able to deal damage, heal and tank with a single build. With this in mind, wearing one damage set and one tanking set isn't so unreasonable.

Great points all. I am gearing up to try the plague doctor method, though I do like a back bar for various skills, like power surge (though it wasn’t working last night, maybe I can lose it), else drain, crushing shock if I run out of stam an need to bash or start over...Liquid lightning for some extra dps at times...

I’m adjusting to like this idea....tank sorcs...life goes on... 😉

Locriana

ccfeeling wrote: »

Locriana wrote: »

@ccfeeling so what did you put the cp into, since bastion is useless (and why I wonder did they leave it in there since it is useless now...they really didn’t think this through)

I put mine mostly into spell shield, as Maelstrom damage is mostly magicka, and I have 61 in ironclad because...archers. Didn’t even notice a difference. I think it’s bugged, when there is no noticeable difference putting 5o extra points in spell shield.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-pet-build-pve/#_murkmire

Hi Loc , I just copied the CP allocation what Alcast recommanded
Threw them to ironclad and spell shield .

Light armor shield or Sorc shield is not really helpful in VMA even we spent so much CP , but at least it could save our life a few seconds , what we have to do is damage , we have to kill mobs quick before they kill us .

Skill loadout I also run Surge , so Sorc shield + Surge + Iceheart proc shield , this defense setup is pretty solid .

Double shields is noticeable

Thanks for the reply. I’ll take a look, though Alcast CP is usually optimized for his trials group. Spell shield didn’t help me at all, as I mentioned.,
Yes I know we have to do damage, and that is my main focus. But I think you’ll admit, one person against three archers all ‘taking aim’ at you from different parts of the arena, while fire-breathers, snarers and guys spinning out progressively stronger fire attacks, while people come at you with giant axes....and a min9 boss flings *** at you...Is not usually addressable all at once. 😉 😆

I’ve tried lightning form and iceheart before and found them problematic in a number of situations, like they proc and kill the argonian shielder, or the hoarvors too soon and then I have to flip them at the pillars, etc...So not a substitute for shields, for me at least. Maybe I have bad rng on when they proc? Wouldn’t be the first time. This is why I don’t use crystal frags.... 😔
Glad you got that to work.
Still wondering what happened to power surge this patch...

woodap

Murkmire is boring as heck, my character has no survivabilty now, overnight a game which I have loved playing for 18 months has become a load of shite. Subscription cancelled.

Kurat

Shield nerf didn't affect my magden any. I got to final stage without using shields at all and no deaths. And I'm no elitist. Died at last boss like 20 times lol. Maybe stronger shields would have saved me there who knows. But last boss is a *** anyways.
OP mentioned that sorc pets die a lot. Don't know if it's some bug or maybe wardens are different some how but the bear never seemed to take any damage at all. Only at stage 5 he dies every time.
I used Julianos, BSW and Skoria.

Royaji

Locriana wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Can someone find that video of a guy light attacking his way through vMA? We really need to have it pinned somewhere...

Probably @Gandork ....

Gandork's YouTube

28min run as stamblade when he goes for score. Naked run, Unarmed run, First Person run and other fun ways to run vMA...

Thank you, that was what I was looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO5zS5aMOow

He literally light-attacked his way through vMA. Saying that vMA is not easy with the amount of CPs we now have just because your shield is weaker is a learn to play issue.

I said in my OP that I was not in the top 1% of players and that I struggled for a long time to be able to complete vMA. I have gone on to being able to do it with score runs, completing in single sessions. Not top scores, but respectable enough.

I said this to make it obvious that posting videos of guys clearing it naked with light attacks was not necessary to prove to me that vMA “is a learn to play issue”. But you had to get your dig in there, hope that does something for you.
It was not helpful to me.

I know every mechanic in there and all my killer pals by name, where they spawn, what they do, etc. because I have spent many hours ‘learning to play’. Some of us are less talented, and less young, and less...on PC. Believe me, your brain and your fingers won’t be as snappy as the years go on either. Enjoy while you can.

The rest of us still struggle, and it is challenging. And used to be an enjoyable challenge. Learning a character inside out and then having them nerf it constantly — and then this drastically, is not.

I can understand how a video of a guy doing a 30 minutes 600k score run can be not helpful. But this LA video is actually pretty relevant. This is my point: you do not have to be "snappy" to do vMA. No need to press fancy combinations of buttons or perfectly weave every attack. No "3 bows per cast or go home". All this guy is doing is just pressing one button every second with one hand and moving and dodging with the other. He is not rushing, not trying to burn before mechanics. Just follows mechanics at his pace.

If "1%" can do it without any abilities on their bars, is it really that impossible with a full arsenal of defensive and offensive skills for someone "less talented"? I honestly don't think so.

ccfeeling

Locriana wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Locriana wrote: »

@ccfeeling so what did you put the cp into, since bastion is useless (and why I wonder did they leave it in there since it is useless now...they really didn’t think this through)

I put mine mostly into spell shield, as Maelstrom damage is mostly magicka, and I have 61 in ironclad because...archers. Didn’t even notice a difference. I think it’s bugged, when there is no noticeable difference putting 5o extra points in spell shield.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-pet-build-pve/#_murkmire

Hi Loc , I just copied the CP allocation what Alcast recommanded
Threw them to ironclad and spell shield .

Light armor shield or Sorc shield is not really helpful in VMA even we spent so much CP , but at least it could save our life a few seconds , what we have to do is damage , we have to kill mobs quick before they kill us .

Skill loadout I also run Surge , so Sorc shield + Surge + Iceheart proc shield , this defense setup is pretty solid .

Double shields is noticeable

Thanks for the reply. I’ll take a look, though Alcast CP is usually optimized for his trials group. Spell shield didn’t help me at all, as I mentioned.,
Yes I know we have to do damage, and that is my main focus. But I think you’ll admit, one person against three archers all ‘taking aim’ at you from different parts of the arena, while fire-breathers, snarers and guys spinning out progressively stronger fire attacks, while people come at you with giant axes....and a min9 boss flings *** at you...Is not usually addressable all at once. 😉 😆

I’ve tried lightning form and iceheart before and found them problematic in a number of situations, like they proc and kill the argonian shielder, or the hoarvors too soon and then I have to flip them at the pillars, etc...So not a substitute for shields, for me at least. Maybe I have bad rng on when they proc? Wouldn’t be the first time. This is why I don’t use crystal frags.... 😔
Glad you got that to work.
Still wondering what happened to power surge this patch...

Noted , practice makes perfect
I run the arena over 300 times , you will be confident when you remember all mechanics each stage . VMA has no change , mobs do the same things at all time
You gotta know what time to cast shield , what is the most hazard to you , you also could use the sigils until you get better .

I agree that stage 7 needs some luck , I died twice at the 1st attempt after the patch day . Because I'm a bit worry with this patch , so I run a strong defense setup at the beginning , but the result is not really good , you could take a look in my video that night .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMZt5ZMrj0s&t=1742s

I didn't record the stage 8 & 9 because of the meal break , I changed back to aggressive build on 8 + 9 except the monster I picked iceheart , ez ...lol

Due to the HP cap , the shield upgrade is not really helpful even we spend so much resource on the resistance , I tested with both 22k resistance setting .
The shield still looks like a pc of paper

Locriana

Feric51 wrote: »

@Locriana

I see you're on console, and if you haven't been following the PC patch notes you might not know there was a bug introduced on PC with the base Murkmire patch that affected how pets take damage. I'm not talking about their supposed 100 resistance to damage in group content (which may, or may not, actually be true).

Instead: pre-Murkmire pets had an 85% reduction to AoE and DoT damage in all non-group content, this was removed by a bug and pets started taking unreduced damage from all sources. They fixed this on PC with incremental patch 4.2.6, but it appears the fix did not make it into the console release of Murkmire.

This may be the real reason your pets seem to be dying more often than before. Yes, shield size does play a role, but it might be exacerbated by the lack of damage reduction pets should be getting.

Just food for thought.

THIS ^^^^ EXACTLY THIS, THANK YOU @Feric51

This is my problem, right here, absolutely. Hopefully console people will report this in large enough numbers they will fix it..

USING THE PLAGUE DOCTOR BUILD ON CONSOLE, HAVNG THE SAME PROBLEMS EVEN WITH LARGER SHIELDS.
NOTHING PROTECTS THE PETS, THEY ARE DYING CONSTANTLY.

This has nothing to do with mechanics and/or my knowledge of the game, as various people here are quick to ‘point out’.

When the pets die constantly and I am spending time recasting them, it definitely screws up the flow of the game, and the response to the mechanics.

Previous to NerfMire, my pets rarely died. I’ve been playing petsorcs for years, and know how to keep them alive, timing of shields is a big part of that.

I am conscious of mechanics, that’s how I have done vMA every time. I’m decent enough at it to do reasonable farming runs. I have my methods and an approach that has worked for me in response to each mechanic. When I died, it used to be because of a mistake, and I recognize what it was and go again. It was interesting, challenging, and enjoyable.

I don’t mind making mistakes and learning from them.

Pets dying constantly and me struggling to recast them and in doing so am unable to do what I need to be doing, use up magicka trying to keep them alive fruitlessly, and lose dps by doing so, is not an interesting or enjoyable play style.

Ramber

heavy lightning staff attacks are op in maelstrom with wall and ll... i never even used a shield cause of the health buff from a pet.

Nocturnalan

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Locriana wrote: »

@ccfeeling so what did you put the cp into, since bastion is useless (and why I wonder did they leave it in there since it is useless now...they really didn’t think this through)

Because there are still other shield spells and effects that don't have health limits still receiving benefits from Bastion.

Like Barrier?

LadyLethalla

@Locriana I feel you. I'm not young, not on PC, have high lag... have completed VMA maybe 3 dozen times on my pet sorc. Spent most of last week in there trying to get 2nd bow (ended up with 3 extra); also managed somehow to do my best time and score without sigils and only 2 deaths AND got a Leaderboard reward for it, to my great surprise. But now? Not even tempted to take pet sorc back in "just to see", with his current build.

However - prior to Nerfmire - I did try VMA on both a Redguard non-pet magsorc, and (my main) a Redguard magblade.
It took me a lot of tries, a lot of swearing and... well, you get the picture, but when I finally took down that SOB Voriak Solkyn, it was as sweet as the first time my pet sorc killed him. Now, I won't ever take those latter 2 characters back in there, but I am considering changing my pet sorc to a non-pet, with appropriate gear changes such as Iceheart.

Oh and I know at least @ZOS_JessicaFolsom knows about the pet bug on console as she replied to me prior to Nerfmire that they hoped "to have it fixed" before we got the patch. Which didn't happen.