tank and healer role improvements to improve the groupfinder experience

Rungar

1) improve tank base dps to 8-10k
this can easily be done by converting 1H&S to health based and putting a bleed dot on heroic slash.

2) slightly improve healer dps capability to 10-15k. This can be best done through the restoration line by adding in empower for critical heals and or cost reduction for the next destruction line dmging skill.

these are simple changes to bring up base group dps to make the groupfinder a more successful experience especially for poor dps groups. This also might increase the number of tank players which would also improve the experience.

i wont go into required dps role changes because everyone gets their back up.

Thorstienn

I do agree tank needs some damage help for overland/low groups, and think your health suggestion isn't too bad, however health scaling always seems to be awful in this game. And I'm sure many PvP players won't love the change.
Healer doesn't really need, can cause plenty of damage as a healer as our max stats etc are the same as DDs. It's only gear and some CP that's really different.
The big issue is still game design; 1 shot mechanics make both roles pointless, and the games focus on making DPS so ludicrously makes healers and tanks buff monkeys (which plenty don't like) and slow in non-group content (mostly tank).

Joxer61

The problem is dungeons not needing tanks, period. To many times have been told why tank, can just go 4 dps easy. SO as a tank why bother, you cant learn. Dungeons need buffing...NOT the players!

ZeroXFF

Joxer61 wrote: »

The problem is dungeons not needing tanks, period. To many times have been told why tank, can just go 4 dps easy. SO as a tank why bother, you cant learn. Dungeons need buffing...NOT the players!

It's not just about dungeons. It's very tedious to level as a tank.

Kadoin

Why would anyone want 1H+S to scale off of health, when this change when it would trigger: medium armor tanks, LA tanks, any tank that doesn't stack only health, any tank that can reach your DPS #s now, PvP users of SnB, PvP players when someone gets 50K+ health and invests into direct damage CP + physical damage, PvP players when said person with high health becomes emp, and maybe more that I've missed?

Rungar

Joxer61 wrote: »

The problem is dungeons not needing tanks, period. To many times have been told why tank, can just go 4 dps easy. SO as a tank why bother, you cant learn. Dungeons need buffing...NOT the players!

dungeons dont need buffing but the issue is a touchy subject because balance here would require the removal of a specific dps mechanic. The salty ocean of sorc tears would be but a thimble full compared to the day this gets fixed.


for the healers i was thinking its more an incentive and empower and cost reduction built into the resto line would provide some incentive to do a little more dps on the condition that they trigger when you crit heal someone other than you.

this game changes all the time and i dont think zos really worries to much about players. I dont think the 1H and shield based on health with the expectation of a slight dps increase for high health tanks is not unreasonable. Its not unprecedented and weve seen the scaling is not the same as for stam or mag so i imagine they could balance it.

either way improving the groupfinder experience would be very healthy for the game overall so its worth doing.

Anotherone773

I use to end game tank and heal in both WoW and Rift. I sometimes tank in ESO on a DK but i find it very boring and underwhelming. It feels cumbersome and clunky and honestly its a lot of tedious effort especially when you have DPS that thinks their hail or spray or other nonsense should land before you get aggro and all the mobs run by you and nearly wipe out the scrub DPS before the healer pulls one out and saves him at the last second.


In short....roles in this game feel very blah and unfinished. The fact that they are not necessary for much content where healing and tanking can be a team effort even further diminishes the roles of tank and heals. The jack of all trades concept that ESO utilizes is fine for the SP version but in the MMO version it just makes the game very bland.

Silver_Strider

They could increase my Tank's damage to 50k, it won't make a lick of difference if I have to rely on other people to do the mechanics in order for me to survive (bash the WW in MHK when I'm pinned down, kill the ghost that has me chained up in FL, etc). I can survive pretty well and hell, I already do 10k damage on my Bahrahra's Curse/Moonhunter/Grothdar set up but when I'm literally at the mercy of teammates that are beyond incompetent that's when I get screwed over and stop trying group finder for the day.

aeowulf

It's 'easy' to sort. Fix the class-role combinations you rarely see in group finder - be it due to them having a lack of fun, viability, whatever. Most of the ones borderline completely missing are healers and tanks. When did you last see a DK healer for example? If people want pug finder semi-sorted, they all have to start shouting for all the underplayed combinations.

ZoS should be able to pull up the completion stats for every vDLC dungeon to see how many of each class complete for each role. THERE are stats i'd like to see.

Datolite

Rungar wrote: »

1) improve tank base dps to 8-10k
this can easily be done by converting 1H&S to health based and putting a bleed dot on heroic slash.

2) slightly improve healer dps capability to 10-15k. This can be best done through the restoration line by adding in empower for critical heals and or cost reduction for the next destruction line dmging skill.

these are simple changes to bring up base group dps to make the groupfinder a more successful experience especially for poor dps groups. This also might increase the number of tank players which would also improve the experience.

i wont go into required dps role changes because everyone gets their back up.

God no. Can you imagine a health-based DPS skill line in PvP?

Tanks and healers have lots of builds that make them very damage oriented and fun to play. Maybe less-so in vet content, but at that point the challenge itself is the rewarding part. There are better ways to promote tanking/healing.

Mojmir

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

The problem is dungeons not needing tanks, period. To many times have been told why tank, can just go 4 dps easy. SO as a tank why bother, you cant learn. Dungeons need buffing...NOT the players!

It's not just about dungeons. It's very tedious to level as a tank.

leveling a tank is as easy as any other role, except you just slot tank skills as your leveling. spam impulse,wear training trait on heavy pcs.

idk

The idea is flawed on multipole accounts.

Besides the fact that tanks are giving up damage for survival, we can already create very tanky builds that can do damage which has been an issue in PvP that Zos has worked to rectify, going in the opposite direction OP is suggesting they want.

Further, the idea to give tanks a bleed, the strongest damage type that cannot be mitigated by armor would further throw PvP into disarray.

Essentially, the idea presented would guarantee we would all PvP as tanks.

As for healers, they can already easily hit 15k dps. Heck, when I get the itch to be brave and enter GF alone to help out random people I only go on a character that can heal. Gives me control of a support class and I often carry the group with at least 50% of the damage while keeping them alive.

Rungar

what would you suggest then?

p.s pvp is already destroyed. Everyone knows this already.

aeowulf

Rungar wrote: »

what would you suggest then?

p.s pvp is already destroyed. Everyone knows this already.

'fix' the classes that are not played in the roles of tank/healer. Want more tanks? Make it so more than 2/5 classes are desired/fun to play as tanks. There are reasons why each class isn't played in certain roles.

VaranisArano

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

The problem is dungeons not needing tanks, period. To many times have been told why tank, can just go 4 dps easy. SO as a tank why bother, you cant learn. Dungeons need buffing...NOT the players!

It's not just about dungeons. It's very tedious to level as a tank.

Well, my solution to "its tedious to level as a tank" is to actually level as a tank.

I leveled my nightblade tank doing the daily random dungeons. Quick queue, and its generally not too bad as a lower level in Groupfinder. I had made one set of training gear at different levels for leveling and the rest of it I replace with dungeon gear so I was always close to level.