Forum Stamblades — your preferred gapcloser?

TheYKcid

Nearly one-and-a-half years of Stamblading and I'm still torn between the two. This pertains to frontbar 2H builds, of course, since you wouldn't have a choice between the two on other weapon types.

Stampede
...Pros:

• Slightly cheaper
• Can proc poisons (generally preferable to enchants on 2H)
• Applies a massive snare

...Cons:

• Easily CC'ed during travel time
• Will completely miss on fast-moving targets

Ambush
...Pros:

• Assassination passives for slotting
• Extremely quick and accurate, minimal telegraph
• Gives Empower

...Cons:

• Almost no snare
• Can get cancelled during cast-time if target breaks LOS
• Less tolerance for Z-axis differences (pointed-out by @ rfennell_ESO)

Vote and discuss!
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testd4n1

Ambush

Class identity.

glavius

Ambush

Stampede is terrible. Buggy, and can spend an entire stamina pool not hitting a moving target.

Ragnaroek93

I play without gapcloser but I'm still using a bow.

Stigant

Got HA setup for BGs and MA setup for OW and not running gapcloser on either one at the moment

OrdoHermetica

Ambush

The pros you list for Ambush are very, very strong in my opinion. Easily outweigh the Stampede pros.

Flame_of_Hades

Ambush

Ambush gets me to my target faster than stamped, thus, ambush it is.

Thogard

Stampede

Limited experience here, but stampede for 3 reasons:
1. IMO Stampede is more predictable. Not necessarily more reliable, but when it doesn’t work I’m not surprised.
2. Dat axe bleed tho
3. Only Stam snare available AFAIK to a 2h/bow stamblade. Now that maj expedition uptime is nerfed, snares are even more important as it will allow you to hit someone with maj expedition even if you don’t have maj expedition.*

*still might not be true for australians , rip

magictucktuck

Ambush

crit rush was good when you couldn't get another 5p so everyone ran agility and vma 2h it just fit better then, now its not worth the vma 2h over a 5p set so no extra damage on crit rush, or stampede .

but once they did that patch that improved gap closers so they didn't need a ground path(? idk a better phrase) and i started getting stuck in the ground everywhere or missing targets so i dropped it. it may be fixed now I haven't tried in months but I just prefer ambush because its more reliable in more situations

OrdoHermetica

Ambush

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Ambush gets me to my target faster than stamped, thus, ambush it is.

Agreed. Harder to counter as a result.

rfennell_ESO

The only downside to ambush is it's "failure" rate. PS when it fails it takes stamina from you. Charges that "fail" don't drain resources.

Building around broken things gets old unfortunately.

Oddly enough, the "change" to make charges operate more like ambush actually made them work better than ambush. Ambush will animate and fail on most Z axis differences, far more than charges will. ie you can "charge" from a walkway around a tower to the ground, you can't ambush from there (this case it will just refuse to cast, not jump up (animation) and then drain stamina.

Charges and Ambush are still totally different things in operation. That's why you can ambush through a door, but not charge through it.

If you want to see the most peculiar behavior of ambush... try ambushing to someone using shadow image. If the ambush completed (finished it's animation, then "ported" you to the target) it doesn't matter where they are (or how many walls you had to teleport through to get to them). Most notably would be the sewers in IC... If you ambush a target that used shadow image and the image was behind 3 winding walls, you will still follow them.

OrdoHermetica

Ambush

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

If you want to see the most peculiar behavior of ambush... try ambushing to someone using shadow image. If the ambush completed (finished it's animation, then "ported" you to the target) it doesn't matter where they are (or how many walls you had to teleport through to get to them). Most notably would be the sewers in IC... If you ambush a target that used shadow image and the image was behind 3 winding walls, you will still follow them.

Yep. This and Undo both. I've ended up in so many enemy keeps this way - it also works if someone goes through a door as you Ambush/Lotus Fan.

Honestly, I suspect that's how most NBs get into enemy keeps without walls being breached.

JAwtunes

Ambush

Thogard wrote: »

Limited experience here, but stampede for 3 reasons:
1. IMO Stampede is more predictable. Not necessarily more reliable, but when it doesn’t work I’m not surprised.
2. Dat axe bleed tho
3. Only Stam snare available AFAIK to a 2h/bow stamblade. Now that maj expedition uptime is nerfed, snares are even more important as it will allow you to hit someone with maj expedition even if you don’t have maj expedition.*

*still might not be true for australians , rip

For 2H/bow sNB snares there is also Arrow Spray, and it will also pull other NBs out of cloak. Fear and the shadow ulti have a snare too I think.

Bam_Bam

On my Orc, I dont use a gap closer or cloak. Or even shadow image. Or bow.

susmitds

Ambush

Bam_Bam wrote: »

On my Orc, I dont use a gap closer or cloak. Or even shadow image. Or bow.

Or even sprint. Or even run.

DeadlyRecluse

Stampede is classier.

TheYKcid

Stampede

JAwtunes wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Limited experience here, but stampede for 3 reasons:
1. IMO Stampede is more predictable. Not necessarily more reliable, but when it doesn’t work I’m not surprised.
2. Dat axe bleed tho
3. Only Stam snare available AFAIK to a 2h/bow stamblade. Now that maj expedition uptime is nerfed, snares are even more important as it will allow you to hit someone with maj expedition even if you don’t have maj expedition.*

*still might not be true for australians , rip

For 2H/bow sNB snares there is also Arrow Spray, and it will also pull other NBs out of cloak. Fear and the shadow ulti have a snare too I think.

It's hard to find barspace for Arrow Spray in a typical solo, open-world build though. It definitely has great effects, but I wouldn't find space for it in a million years, too many other crucial things to slot. Shadow ult can only really be used defensively since it's a ground-based AoE. And besides, you'd usually reserve that backbar ult slot for Soul Siphon or Undo, which are imo better defensive options.

For me the snare absolutely is the most valuable part of Stampede, and the main opportunity cost I weigh against Ambush.

I agree with @Thogard on the predictability of Stampede though, which makes it very pleasant to use. If I pass the initial LOS check and cast it, I know for a fact that I will begin to move. I also know exactly where the charge will end (the initial position of my target). Though obviously these same mechanics also result in the downfalls of the skill.

Intuitively I do find that Stampede has better tolerance for terrain jumping like @rfennell_ESO mentioned, though I'll need to test Ambush some more in this regard.

Also realised I forgot to include the Empower in the pros of Ambush, which is pretty significant too I guess.

On the whole I'm surprised at the overwhelming preference for Ambush! I'll have to give it more of a chance.

Solariken

Stampede

Because Stampede looks less ridiculous, snares, and costs less.

JAwtunes

Ambush

@TheYKcid I wasn't suggesting that the other snare options were preferable, just pointing out that Stampede isn't the only snare option available to a 2H/Bow sNB.

To actually answer your question though, I would choose Ambush over Stampede because I find it is quicker in getting me to my target. I also find this when playing against the skills - Stampede is just easier to avoid and you can counter it before they have chance to light attack into a skill.

About 2 to 3 years ago I only ever used Stampede on my sNB because it looked better on paper, but since switching to Ambush I just couldn't switch back. It feels much better imo.

Galarthor

Stamblades shouldn't have to use gapclosers. Rather, the enemy in the crosshair should be teleported to the stamblade by default - at no cost for the stamblade of course. Buff stamblades!

Thogard

Stampede

Galarthor wrote: »

Stamblades shouldn't have to use gapclosers. Rather, the enemy in the crosshair should be teleported to the stamblade by default - at no cost for the stamblade of course. Buff stamblades!

i incapped somebody so hard yesterday that it uninstalled his ESO directory

Thogard

Stampede

Galarthor wrote: »

Stamblades shouldn't have to use gapclosers. Rather, the enemy in the crosshair should be teleported to the stamblade by default - at no cost for the stamblade of course. Buff stamblades!

i incapped somebody so hard yesterday that it uninstalled his ESO directory

TheYKcid

Stampede

While we're at it... why not just make things die if we so much as look at them?

Cue the "Stamblades can already do that" comments lol.

fred4

If you have an Infused vMA 2H (with or without Torug's) and bar swap to, say, DW during the Stampede, you will put a rather strong, if short, DOT on the target, while adding more enchant pressure with the subsequent DW light attack / Incap. Have not tested this, but presume it works (as long as it doesn't lag out on you). Might be a reason to run Stampede.

As for Ambush, I have occasionally teleported into a keep by using the skill just as a player was going through the door.

TheYKcid

Stampede

@fred4 you can't barswap or perform any actions during a Stampede. Also the vMA 2H's Merciless Charge doesn't proc (I know some Torugs builds that were publicised claimed it did, but they're wrong).

Zer0oo

sneak up to them?

mr_wazzabi

Stampede

I love the snare and enchant/poison proc chance

I used to exclusively use spambush, even with wrecking blow spamming, but the snare from stampede is too good to overlook now

_Salty_

I dont use one. Bar space is too important. People will come to you. They always do.

TheRealSniker

No gapclosers cause zergs dont run away from you

evoniee

no gap close, it only used by ultra damage gank build without enough defense and sustain or it used by zerglings.
but if i had more space, i would slot one, sadly no space.