We want.. no we NEED separation of PvP and PvE

BLIZZchaos

Over the years this game and players have suffered thru many changes and most of them have stemmed from either PvP or PvE complaints. Players all know that there mulitple ways to build any character. Ever meet someone in the game and talk about builds? Why is it most people will ask "Are you built for PvE or PvP? Well its because they are different. You cant take a PvE build to pvp or vice-versa. DPS will be too low for PvE and not enough resist for PvP.
We have seen many changes to characters over the years that have had different effects on playstyle. I know sorcs are the big class that players have complained about for years. So I can use them as an example. Btw I maintank a DK and dont PvP. But hard to not notice changes.

So lets see..
- streak because of PvP
- dark deal/dark exchange changed because of PvP
- dmg shields changed because of PvP
- crystal frags channged becase of PvP
- boung aegis and armaments changed...cause of PvP
- Overload changed cause of PvP
- rune prison changed cause of PvP
- armor shields changed cause of PvP

Anyone else seeing a trend? Now I already discussed that PvP and PvE is different. Naturally players use different skills and armor sets. So for a DK tank using the medium armor ability while wearing 5 heavy 1 med 1 light for the max buff from undaunted mettle passive. I take a blow. Now I know you can try to justify saying "if you wanna use their ability use 5 pieces" but then everyone has had armor break in the middle of a fight making that ability now useless unless im wearing 6-7 pieces of it. Meaning there are even more limitations in what i can wear. Instead of allowing players to mix and match armor its forcing them to wear more of stuff that isnt needed.

Why is that? Well sorcs in PvP wearing 5 light and 2 heavy for more resist were OP right? Better to force them into all light armor... lower resist easier deaths..

But these changes are all because of PvP. I am not saying these changes arent GOOD for PVP. I am just saying that these changes shouldnt have any affect on character until they enter PvP.

Honestly I think we should KEEP the changes... and place them in PvP, but undo them all for PvE.
Let the sorcs streak across the map in PvE
Let the templars glowing toothpick atk stun the adds in PvE.

This is what makes the game fun to new players... being able to jab and stay alive, being able to streak and frag an add in the head and watch the funny fall animation.

However I think UNIVERSAL changes should be made as well. Everyone knows some classes are better than others in general and we need to fix that. So making a universal class change to some classes should be necessary. Templars need it, DK's need it.

What do you guys think?

Moloch1514

But the Devs said on ESO Live once that would be "too hard". LOL.

Ozazz

agreed 100%

xeNNNNN

BLIZZchaos wrote: »

Over the years this game and players have suffered thru many changes and most of them have stemmed from either PvP or PvE complaints. Players all know that there mulitple ways to build any character. Ever meet someone in the game and talk about builds? Why is it most people will ask "Are you built for PvE or PvP? Well its because they are different. You cant take a PvE build to pvp or vice-versa. DPS will be too low for PvE and not enough resist for PvP.
We have seen many changes to characters over the years that have had different effects on playstyle. I know sorcs are the big class that players have complained about for years. So I can use them as an example. Btw I maintank a DK and dont PvP. But hard to not notice changes.

So lets see..
- streak because of PvP
- dark deal/dark exchange changed because of PvP
- dmg shields changed because of PvP
- crystal frags channged becase of PvP
- boung aegis and armaments changed...cause of PvP
- Overload changed cause of PvP
- rune prison changed cause of PvP
- armor shields changed cause of PvP

Anyone else seeing a trend? Now I already discussed that PvP and PvE is different. Naturally players use different skills and armor sets. So for a DK tank using the medium armor ability while wearing 5 heavy 1 med 1 light for the max buff from undaunted mettle passive. I take a blow. Now I know you can try to justify saying "if you wanna use their ability use 5 pieces" but then everyone has had armor break in the middle of a fight making that ability now useless unless im wearing 6-7 pieces of it. Meaning there are even more limitations in what i can wear. Instead of allowing players to mix and match armor its forcing them to wear more of stuff that isnt needed.

Why is that? Well sorcs in PvP wearing 5 light and 2 heavy for more resist were OP right? Better to force them into all light armor... lower resist easier deaths..

But these changes are all because of PvP. I am not saying these changes arent GOOD for PVP. I am just saying that these changes shouldnt have any affect on character until they enter PvP.

Honestly I think we should KEEP the changes... and place them in PvP, but undo them all for PvE.
Let the sorcs streak across the map in PvE
Let the templars glowing toothpick atk stun the adds in PvE.

This is what makes the game fun to new players... being able to jab and stay alive, being able to streak and frag an add in the head and watch the funny fall animation.

However I think UNIVERSAL changes should be made as well. Everyone knows some classes are better than others in general and we need to fix that. So making a universal class change to some classes should be necessary. Templars need it, DK's need it.

What do you guys think?

Damage shields WERE NOT changed because of PvP.

People seriously need to read dev comments.

Oh and if people don't like the dev comments and say its just a cover for PvP nerfs just shut it, its sad times when people look for any excuse to justify their butthurt opinion.

As for actually seperately balancing PvP and PvE I have said this from the beginning and it should be done, 100% behind that at least.

VaranisArano

I think the Devs are committed to balancing them together. For better and for worse.

I also find that PVEers are not the best at identifying when something is problematic from the Devs' perspectives in PVE. Probably its never been a problem from a player's perspective to be "too strong", but it is from the Dev's perspective.

Sir_Xalvador

Moloch1514 wrote: »

But the Devs said on ESO Live once that would be "too hard". LOL.

LMAO
how would it be too hard.... you cant have pets in pvp so it wasn't to hard to do that you cant travel to anyone from cyro to anywhere else that wasn't to hard but to keep builds separate would lmao sounds like someone lied...

FlyingSwan

Moloch1514 wrote: »

But the Devs said on ESO Live once that would be "too hard". LOL.

Would be too hard for these particular devs, yes, because they'd have to put the cheap cash shop reskin crap on hold while they read books on real coding, they may even have to go on a course.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Moloch1514 wrote: »

But the Devs said on ESO Live once that would be "too hard". LOL.

Well it can't be any harder than actually balancing the game, because they've completely failed at that ever since the game was launched.


All The Best

SodanTok

Nope. Half the threads like this are from people so clueless and misinformed it is actually funny

zaria

Moloch1514 wrote: »

But the Devs said on ESO Live once that would be "too hard". LOL.

We talk about an group who would wipe repeatedly on first trash in wayrest 1.
Think that if you gather enough incompetence at one place you get an black hole.

TequilaFire

OP has the usual blindness thinking nerfs are just because of PvP which just isn't so.
Although I would like to see them balanced separately just to see who PvE players would blame then.

Starlock

Among my first impressions from when I first tried PvP were related to the strangeness of bringing our story characters in to fight in the Alliance War. I'll grant there are all sorts of immersion breaking elements in Elder Scrolls Online, but this just seemed really weird to me. This is a war being fought by mostly rank and file soldiers, not multiple vestiges who battled and won against daedric princes! Why didn't we have separate character templates for this? The idea of castle sieging is very cool, but I feel like we should all be playing those rank and file soldiers. You could pick a template role:

• Battlefield Medic - restoration staff, heals
• Siege Engineer - siege protection and boosts
• Scout/Recon - dual wield, stealth and speed
• Archer/Bowyer - physical ranged damage
• Berserker - two handed, heavy damage
• Infantry - 1-handed and shield, tanky
• Battlemage - destruction staff, AoE damage

That's just a starting point and some ideas. You'd have some template with a limited set of skills/abilities and gear picks, and could level up each role independently. You could swap roles whenever you die by respawning at a safe keep.

VaranisArano

TequilaFire wrote: »

OP has the usual blindness thinking nerfs are just because of PvP which just isn't so.
Although I would like to see them balanced separately just to see who PvE players would blame then.

They'd blame the Devs, the Crown Store, and the Class Reps, not necessarily in that order.

Rukia541

I love how its universal that devs refuse to separate pve and pvp even though they both cause each other huge issues with balance..

Sylosi

BLIZZchaos wrote: »

Anyone else seeing a trend?

The main trend I've noticed is clueless PvE players claiming every nerf is down to PvP when some are either not at all or are due to both PvP & PvE.

Your post is a fine example of that, where if you had been paying attention the devs specifically said they had an issue with shields in PvE.

eso_nya

To balance it equally, they should pick either of:
- make pvp like pve: new battle spirit: heals aint cut in half, dmg aint cut in half, shields aint cut in half. health x4, to put players health on elitemob level. players gain immunity to crits. -> traits & sets get the same value in both worlds.
OR
- make pve like pvp: (elite/boss) mob health is reduced to player levels, dmg, healing and shields r cut in half. mobs gain selfheals on playerlevels, better ai to use los, mobs actively hunt players (sneak up and stealthgank; zergrush -> u hit one goblin and the whole maps comes running for u), mobs use sloads, befoul, ultimates and mobs can crit.

Not saying that would be a good idea, but it would give a basis where u could actually try to balance them together.

I'd rather have them make better use of major/minor system and battlespirit to keep the nerfs in the area they aimed for.

TheValar85

i agree. they need to be separated. at this point no one cares how hard is for devs to do ot. Just Do it, no one cares anymore about pity excuses.

Moloch1514

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

But the Devs said on ESO Live once that would be "too hard". LOL.

Would be too hard for these particular devs, yes, because they'd have to put the cheap cash shop reskin crap on hold while they read books on real coding, they may even have to go on a course.

Exactly!

ccmedaddy

Sylosi wrote: »

BLIZZchaos wrote: »

Anyone else seeing a trend?

The main trend I've noticed is clueless PvE players claiming every nerf is down to PvP when some are either not at all or are due to both PvP & PvE.

Your post is a fine example of that, where if you had been paying attention the devs specifically said they had an issue with shields in PvE.

Yup. So sick of dumb threads like this that are based on misinformation and projection.

vovus69

That would be great! But I doubt that zos is able to do that.

Starlock

TheValar85 wrote: »

i agree. they need to be separated. at this point no one cares how hard is for devs to do ot. Just Do it, no one cares anymore about pity excuses.

What's funny is that if they did this, I might actually do more PvP in this game. Maybe it's something we will see in a hypothetical ESO2?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Starlock wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

i agree. they need to be separated. at this point no one cares how hard is for devs to do ot. Just Do it, no one cares anymore about pity excuses.

What's funny is that if they did this, I might actually do more PvP in this game. Maybe it's something we will see in a hypothetical ESO2?

The game I have done most PvP in is LOTRO, and that has a separation of PvP and PvE.

All The Best

BLIZZchaos

Maybe but im well informed, played since before XB and am const

Sylosi wrote: »

BLIZZchaos wrote: »

Anyone else seeing a trend?

The main trend I've noticed is clueless PvE players claiming every nerf is down to PvP when some are either not at all or are due to both PvP & PvE.

Your post is a fine example of that, where if you had been paying attention the devs specifically said they had an issue with shields in PvE.

Except im I did plenty of PvP. As a DK a NB a Sorc and a Temp. From 2014-2016 its about all i did. Now if you are saying that PvP players did not say anything about other characters at the time then you are the blind one. If you are saying there are not threads 640 pages back, cause i looked, where players are complainaing... then again you are blind. And not just about sorcs but of templars and dks and nb as well. Dont call people blind because you refuse to see.

TheValar85

Starlock wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

i agree. they need to be separated. at this point no one cares how hard is for devs to do ot. Just Do it, no one cares anymore about pity excuses.

What's funny is that if they did this, I might actually do more PvP in this game. Maybe it's something we will see in a hypothetical ESO2?

Who knows even teh current game is can deal with the PVP separated part. it would take time and sources but can be done whos ays other wise thats clear bs and lie and speaking out of lazyness.

theyancey

This was a PvE game initially. When PvP was first discussed we were promised that it would not impact the PvE game. We could still "play our way" and that all of our fears and concerns were unfounded. You can add that to "the check is in the mail." "I'm from the government and I am here to help you," and some other saying.

BLIZZchaos

Then of course we get the PvP players in here saying "thats not cause of pvp". I urge everyone to go read the boards from 620+ pages as the complaints from 2014 BEFORE saying "PvP'ers didnt complain. Its sad people come in here and see 1 thing on the there they disagree with so neglect the thread or shame it. Ok so lets say all dmg shields were brought on from pvE changes.. doesnt change the fact that pvp has had an effect on PvP. If you choose to target that and try to make it a valid argument on a thread like this then you prolly shouldnt be here cause you are missing the point of the thread and getting off topic

Reistr_the_Unbroken

I’m not trying the Imperial Sewers to fight Molag until PvP and PvE are separated. But of course ZoS making collapsible bridges and what not only adds more of the hatred to “horse simulator”. Also get rid of the “when u die 50% of TV stones gets taken away”.
Why should half of my hard earned TV go to useless gankers who did nothing?

Bosov

Didnt they change damage shields because of PvE? New trials are 100% magicka because shields make it so much easier to stay alive?

BLIZZchaos

Bosov wrote: »

Didnt they change damage shields because of PvE? New trials are 100% magicka because shields make it so much easier to stay alive?

Like I said, not here to argue about that, that is 1 small aspect of the argument of 1 clasee out of 5 which i dont really care about. Honestly i could list all changes they made and what they said were the reasons BUT the fact is we need it separated. People wanna argue over the small crap that has no importance

Didgerion

Moloch1514 wrote: »

But the Devs said on ESO Live once that would be "too hard". LOL.

I recall them saying something like that, but i think it is a bit out of context, they implied that it would be too confusing for the players to have same skill behaving differently in PVE and PVP, they said that they want players to have a seamlessly experience with the skills everywhere.....


but now you've got PVE group / PVE solo separation (for pet sorcs at least),it does not make any sense....

VaranisArano

BLIZZchaos wrote: »

Then of course we get the PvP players in here saying "thats not cause of pvp". I urge everyone to go read the boards from 620+ pages as the complaints from 2014 BEFORE saying "PvP'ers didnt complain. Its sad people come in here and see 1 thing on the there they disagree with so neglect the thread or shame it. Ok so lets say all dmg shields were brought on from pvE changes.. doesnt change the fact that pvp has had an effect on PvP. If you choose to target that and try to make it a valid argument on a thread like this then you prolly shouldnt be here cause you are missing the point of the thread and getting off topic

Don't be silly. Of course PVPers complained. We PVPers know this.

PVPers complained about high damage, high sustain builds prior to Morrowind. PVPers complained about shield-stacking sorcs before Murkmire.

Its all their fault, right? Those filthy PVPers.

But you and other PVEers like you are pretending that ZOS didn't specifically say that they nerfed shields for BOTH pvp and pve reasons. Because, well, they did and in fact made extra sure that PVE shields got nerfed instead of just going through battlespirit. You are also forgetting that prior to Morrowind, PVE players were ripping through ZOS' hardest content and calling it easy peasy lemon squeezy. Of course ZOS was going to nerf PVE!

The point of the topic is ask for separation of PVE and PVP.

My response is that separating PVE and PVP won't save your precious PVE from nerfs. Because, shockingly enough, ZOS actually nerfs PVE for PVE reasons. So don't get your hopes up too far. Separation isnt a magic bullet to make your problems go away.