[magsorc] Your shield's resistances and what you (don't) do about it.

MalagenR

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=84447

This was sorta the setup i was working on before the patch; but all the other Sorcs were telling me it wouldn't work *grin*.

Just my opinion on your build:

No mines for Soft CC/Burst

24k hp + 7k shield = you're going to get melted regardless of having 4k Impen and 22k resists (at least this is my opinion as I have no idea I run Well Fitted)

This build is totally fine for BG's or anything where you have a group supporting you. As a solo build you don't have enough Stam + Effective HP to survive more than 2 CC breaks - You'll need to run Immov pots or Immov poison otherwise you'll get CC locked early against any competent Stamblade/MagBlade/MagDK/StamDK/StamDen/StamSorc and nailed with DBOS + spammable for death.

You could also look into dropping Boundless and slotting Dark Deal - you'll need the Stam recovery and you can pop it after every CC break while you're immune.

Your spell damage is really nice considering your tank and mag recovery - but it's the Stam that will screw you over in my opinion.

TLDR - Nice BG Build - not enough Stam for Open World small group

PhoenixGrey

Mihael wrote: »

if you weren't running impen on sorc already you were zerging

LOL this !
Either wear all well fitted or have > 26k shields. The middle ground is probably the worst and negates all the advantages sorcs have. You would probably be better off playing another class instead.

Waffennacht

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

if you weren't running impen on sorc already you were zerging

LOL this !
Either wear all well fitted or have > 26k shields. The middle ground is probably the worst and negates all the advantages sorcs have. You would probably be better off playing another class instead.

I wasn't aware of any advantages...

I think that last part is true for anyone running mag sorc atm

PhoenixGrey

Waffennacht wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

if you weren't running impen on sorc already you were zerging

LOL this !
Either wear all well fitted or have > 26k shields. The middle ground is probably the worst and negates all the advantages sorcs have. You would probably be better off playing another class instead.

I wasn't aware of any advantages...

I think that last part is true for anyone running mag sorc atm

I assumed OP was talking about solo play. Impen never made a difference when I have 3+ players banging on me. Anyway those playstyles maybe outdated now.

Thraben

I will slot heavy Armor, Trollking, and Forward Momentum.

Basically a StamSorc with Frags.

raistin87

does minor/major protection apply before shields now?

ATomiX96

Mihael wrote: »

if you weren't running impen on sorc already you were zerging

yeah definitly, a good sorc barely ever uses his shields, doesnt bother keeping them up and doesnt know when he is about to get ultidumped / bursted, hence the impen armor trait choice over something like well-fitted or infused

Waffennacht

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

if you weren't running impen on sorc already you were zerging

yeah definitly, a good sorc barely ever uses his shields, doesnt bother keeping them up and doesnt know when he is about to get ultidumped / bursted, hence the impen armor trait choice over something like well-fitted or infused

A good sorc knows that splash damage can crit and when having multiple opponents, including Stam sorc's implosion, crit resistance is mandatory to prevent 100-0

Good Sorcs also don't Zerg in OW and usually solo or PuG BGs...

arkansas_ESO

jaws343 wrote: »

I have two builds I am looking at right now.

The first relies on my current bar setup for burst damage with the sets providing sustain a resistances. It also keeps me in light armor.
5 Piece Pariah on jewelry and two large body pieces(Shields will get stronger as your health gets lower.)
5 Piece Bright Throat for sustain and max mag.
2 Piece Bloodspawn



The Second setup is an odd one I want to try, that removes most of the reflectable damage a sorc has and removes the burst for sustained pressure (No Curse, and no frags). Still in light armor with 2 heavy. But with all tri-stat glyphs. Get most of my resists from Bloodspawn and keeping Boundless up. Tri-Stat for health.
5x Netch
5x Innate Axiom
2x Bloodspawn
Dual Swords, and restro back bar. Intend to use Bloodcraze for the dot, heal and enchant proc (with lightning enchant and damage enchant).
Also intend to use boundless on the front bar to keep the buff uptime going.
And the key to the build will be using Mages Wrath as the spammable rather than only using it for execute. With Axiom and Netch, Wrath's initial hit is going to be strong, and it is unreflectable.
Will use Overload for the ultimate.

when the new twin slashes is so OP even mag sorcs are trying to run it

l o l

Minno

raistin87 wrote: »

does minor/major protection apply before shields now?

They always applied before shields. Only difference is attacks can crit, impen reduces crit dmg modifer, penetration impacts damage, and your armor value all are calculated before shields now.

leepalmer95

Xsorus wrote: »

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=84447

This was sorta the setup i was working on before the patch; but all the other Sorcs were telling me it wouldn't work *grin*.

And i'm still saying it won't.

It's a troll tank setup. Look at your effective spell dmg...

Mihael

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

if you weren't running impen on sorc already you were zerging

yeah definitly, a good sorc barely ever uses his shields, doesnt bother keeping them up and doesnt know when he is about to get ultidumped / bursted, hence the impen armor trait choice over something like well-fitted or infused

i used 5 impen 2 well fitted because I play my sorc in no cp where I dont get dodge cost reduction from cp and my shields werent huge because its no cp

Aldul

Sooo,

effectively, this means we either are dps-useless tank-trolls/support builds that may act as negate bots and purge spammers (+ some CC, maybe) or close-to-useless dps'ish glass cannons without self heal or effective shielding/getaways, whom every stam gapclose instantly crushes to a bloody cyrodiil mess?

raistin87

Aldul wrote: »

Sooo,

effectively, this means we either are dps-useless tank-trolls/support builds that may act as negate bots and purge spammers (+ some CC, maybe) or close-to-useless dps'ish glass cannons without self heal or effective shielding/getaways, whom every stam gapclose instantly crushes to a bloody cyrodiil mess?

Technically not instantly, but within 3-4 second.

Tonturri

My issue with the whole 'sorcs could easily run well-fitted/divines/whatever instead of impen. Based on my experience, the sorcs I knew were good enough at the shield stacking meta and definitely did not use impen. It doesn't matter if your opponent can't touch your health'.

Is that if your opponent is any good, they will touch your health. They will fondle and caress it. If they don't, well...

wheem_ESO

Mihael wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

if you weren't running impen on sorc already you were zerging

yeah definitly, a good sorc barely ever uses his shields, doesnt bother keeping them up and doesnt know when he is about to get ultidumped / bursted, hence the impen armor trait choice over something like well-fitted or infused

i used 5 impen 2 well fitted because I play my sorc in no cp where I dont get dodge cost reduction from cp and my shields werent huge because its no cp

Yea, a lot of people don't seem to appreciate the difference in max-CP PvP and no-CP PvP. All the, "Don't worry about Impen, they won't touch your health if you're not bad" talk seems to be coming from people that don't do Battlegrounds or no-CP Cyrodiil (but especially the BGs).

Emma_Overload

raistin87 wrote: »

does minor/major protection apply before shields now?

It always did.

Feanor

It’s as predicted. Sure, things “work” still. There are a lot of bad players whom you can kill regardless of setups. But as I said before - if I want to play a tank I’ll hop on a StamWarden. And have way more burst than a Sorc pre-patch had.

ATomiX96

Waffennacht wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

if you weren't running impen on sorc already you were zerging

yeah definitly, a good sorc barely ever uses his shields, doesnt bother keeping them up and doesnt know when he is about to get ultidumped / bursted, hence the impen armor trait choice over something like well-fitted or infused

A good sorc knows that splash damage can crit and when having multiple opponents, including Stam sorc's implosion, crit resistance is mandatory to prevent 100-0

Good Sorcs also don't Zerg in OW and usually solo or PuG BGs...

ofc you still run 4 impen pieces and some cp into crit resist so you get around 1.6k-2k smh... (im talking pre shield nerf) for the situation when you get caught off-guard but you are not running 3k impen like most stam setups.

/sarcasm gone wrong almost died

Irylia

Minno wrote: »

You know the impen trait sorcs loved to ignore? Slot it, you are going to need it, I guarantee it.
And all light armor specs should be comfortable getting 20-21k resists with/without shields.

Been running it since dbh

Good thing bleeds don’t care about resistances
Defile *** our already low healing
We can be crit on but cannot crit ward size
And still struggle in the sustain department
Shackle lich 2x wasn’t for the lols it was because we needed all the recovery and cushioning to Stam + mag

Now we need to juggle damage sustain mitigation

Stamina? Runs 2 damage sets in heavy and sustains better, deals more damage, has more hp/resistances/healing

I had 6k weapon damage
28k resists
29k hp
3k impen
Deadly cloak 25% dmg aoe reduc
34k Stam
2.7k regen via enchant/passive/netch/constitution/
Base Regen


:thumbs up:
“Balance”

Rampeal

I never used sheilds to be honest. So won't effect me much, although shield breaker set could go the way of the dodo if no one rolls sheilds anymore. On the flip side it could go up in popularity with the sheild nerf. Time will tell.

Minno

Irylia wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

You know the impen trait sorcs loved to ignore? Slot it, you are going to need it, I guarantee it.
And all light armor specs should be comfortable getting 20-21k resists with/without shields.

Been running it since dbh

Good thing bleeds don’t care about resistances
Defile *** our already low healing
We can be crit on but cannot crit ward size
And still struggle in the sustain department
Shackle lich 2x wasn’t for the lols it was because we needed all the recovery and cushioning to Stam + mag

Now we need to juggle damage sustain mitigation

Stamina? Runs 2 damage sets in heavy and sustains better, deals more damage, has more hp/resistances/healing

I had 6k weapon damage
28k resists
29k hp
3k impen
Deadly cloak 25% dmg aoe reduc
34k Stam
2.7k regen via enchant/passive/netch/constitution/
Base Regen


:thumbs up:
“Balance”

Zos just doesn't want to nerf those HA sets for whatever reason lol

Gibus043

I gave a try to this build for the last couple of days (no-CP/Battlegrounds):
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=93099

I'm using Bright-Throat instead of Lich/Willpower (UESP builder isn't updated yet)

21k Max Health
37k Max Magicka
20k Defenses
2.8k Spell Power
1.9k Recovery

Even with 20k defense, it's so much difficult to stay alive compared to pre-patch
The biggest problem is Healing Ward. In no-CP I get a 3k tooltip even with those stats
It can scale up to 300%, but a 9k shield is the same I get from Hardened Ward. It's pointless

Aldul

I don't really get why people still go for a high magicka pool (I'm considering 35k+ high, nowadays) Is it the effective damage you're after or the actual pool? My regen has to be around 2.2k unbuffed to make sth like a comfort zone. I am not a fan of a lich proc, either, I want base reg.
Really frustrating is tho, that we suffer from the low spell pen and spell dmg when aiming for both a) max stats sets like shackle b) defense like high resistances.
A sorc is now a support class with not much of a dps relevance. Even a glass cannon cannot burst the heavy meta. I've been on 21k spell penetration and have been frustrated pre-patch.
I get where the sorc hate came from. Casual playbase sees a streaking, shielded sorc, yells "cheater" and "nerf" simultaniosly and wonder why ppl argue "L2P"-wise ...
*** it

Biro123

Aldul wrote: »

I don't really get why people still go for a high magicka pool (I'm considering 35k+ high, nowadays) Is it the effective damage you're after or the actual pool? My regen has to be around 2.2k unbuffed to make sth like a comfort zone. I am not a fan of a lich proc, either, I want base reg.
Really frustrating is tho, that we suffer from the low spell pen and spell dmg when aiming for both a) max stats sets like shackle b) defense like high resistances.
A sorc is now a support class with not much of a dps relevance. Even a glass cannon cannot burst the heavy meta. I've been on 21k spell penetration and have been frustrated pre-patch.
I get where the sorc hate came from. Casual playbase sees a streaking, shielded sorc, yells "cheater" and "nerf" simultaniosly and wonder why ppl argue "L2P"-wise ...
*** it

Same reason as before.. With sorc's crappy healing, shields are still the main class defence, and having max mag rather than spell-damage improves them. I don't think dropping max mag in favour of spell-damage will ever be the best choice unless either better heals are available or shields also scale on spell-damage.

Aldul

Yeah. But either my shields were big enough AND my rotation AND my effective dmg was on point, or I'm dead anyway. So I might just go for high-regen because it doen't matter if a shield is 12k or 14k, I have to re-cast anyway, and re-casting needs regen / cost reduction. I'm trying to make the point that, whenever they say is "adapt, learn,..", etc.. they should see the desperate situation in pvp theorycrafting and the practice with all that 6k wpn dmg opponents around...

stamina is king. I feel like 1.6 times introduced that principle and it just grew and grew. too bad, I decided for immersion reason to (role)play one char only, who is a magicka sorc. r.i.p.

Feanor

@Aldul

Apparently you didn’t get the message yet my man. Sorc still OP because shields are „stronger“ and burst is „even better“, while Streak is a „stronk“ kiting tool now.

At least that’s what people who couldn’t beat a Sorc prior to update 20 will try to make you believe in here.

oxygen_thief

Gibus043 wrote: »

Even with 20k defense, it's so much difficult to stay alive compared to pre-patch
The biggest problem is Healing Ward. In no-CP I get a 3k tooltip even with those stats
It can scale up to 300%, but a 9k shield is the same I get from Hardened Ward. It's pointless

healing ward was useless even before the patch because of defile, oblivion damage and your injured teammates. i use dark conversion and tri stat potions for healing.

i think i will run my old setup but with little adjustments. i will add chudans head and more impen stead of infused.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=81158

Biro123

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Gibus043 wrote: »

Even with 20k defense, it's so much difficult to stay alive compared to pre-patch
The biggest problem is Healing Ward. In no-CP I get a 3k tooltip even with those stats
It can scale up to 300%, but a 9k shield is the same I get from Hardened Ward. It's pointless

healing ward was useless even before the patch because of defile, oblivion damage and your injured teammates. i use dark conversion and tri stat potions for healing.

i think i will run my old setup but with little adjustments. i will add chudans head and more impen stead of infused.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=81158

I agree, healing ward has been trash for ages. Since oblivion damage became common, I switched to rapid-regen.

At the minute I'm experimenting with impreg/twilight (since pets get your crit-resists now) - with 1-piece pirate-skelly, and some cp spent to add physical resists - and added in boundless - with frost-staff.. The idea is that when under attack myself, I can block and block-cast twilight heals if needed. When the pet is under attack, I have a single shield and its heals to keep it alive..
Not convinced though.. pet still dies as much as before, and a much lower mag pool than before means weaker pet heals.. Also bloking+shields = bad synergy, and screws with mobility.. I haven't really optimised it yet - still getting a feel of whether I like it.. my shield is over the health cap, could use more well-fitted traits.. maybe more resists, sustain is problematic etc.. All stuff I can tweak - but I don't know if I want to completely change direction yet. Need to experiment with bright-throat first when I get my hands on it.
Really needs a hot though to be a good build... but there's just no space for one!

Kova

Feanor wrote: »

@Aldul

Apparently you didn’t get the message yet my man. Sorc still OP because shields are „stronger“ and burst is „even better“, while Streak is a „stronk“ kiting tool now.

At least that’s what people who couldn’t beat a Sorc prior to update 20 will try to make you believe in here.

My dude, even you are forgetting that crystal frags got a HUG10%BUF. Sorcs have their class identity back now, unlike us stamdks.!

Now I'm off to complain about ZoS hating our class, but not before I post this 1vX video showing me hit 15k+ leaps bro! Lolololol.