How is it fun to share story areas with randoms?

DLM

The more I am advancing through the game the more I am seriously getting tired of how it is not instancing story areas, I insist on story. How frickin hard is it to acknowledge that maybe we don't want to share some areas with other people? And don't serve me the MMO excuse, other games do it.

I was just doing some side quest in Summerset, the one with the book that makes people think they are some hero and that ends in the library. I get to the end, was talking to the NPC and apparently some boss fight was supposed to take place. I can't be so sure as actually someone else following me was also on the quest and triggered the fight. I was talking to the NPC for **** sake, why am I ending dead from an AOE while I am talking to the damn NPC?

INSTANCE THESE ****** DAMN AREAS!!!!!

Sheezabeast

What if that other person was wondering what some dead guy was doing in his boss fight?

VaranisArano

Its an MMO.

When I started playing before One Tamriel, I was grateful for other people, because I couldnt defeat Blaze and Ragebinder on my own. I was level 9, they were level 9 bosses, and they kicked my butt alone.

Certain quests are instances, like the Main Quest. Most aren't because this is an MMORPG. Having other players roaming around is part of the genre.

In your case, the NPC will recycle all the dialogue if you didnt finish talking to them.

But in a general sense, if I wanted completely instanced quests, I'd go boot up Skyrim.

GreenHere

I'm afraid the answer likely boils down to it having nothing to do with fun. It's cost effective. Letting us share areas that maybe "should" be instanced is less work, and less expense at the end of the day. That's probably all there is to it.

DLM

Being an MMO is not an excuse. We are not talking about killing 10 wolves in a wood, we are talking about a place where you should be able to do things at your pace and talk to NPCs without having to deal with other people. Despite all its faults, if there's one thing that SWTOR for instance does right that's story and instancing these kind of areas.

There is a thing called immersion. When you are doing the Murkmire pre-quest and steal the jacket, how is it fun to have a dozen of people sneaking around in a tiny house with you?

And back to that quest, why the hell do you end dead because you take the time of talking to some NPC? How is that in any shape or form acceptable?

VaranisArano

DLM wrote: »

Being an MMO is not an excuse. Despite all its faults, if there's one thing that SWTOR for instance does right that's story.

There is a thing called immersion. When you are doing the Murkmire pre-quest and steal the jacket for the precious lady, how is it fun to have a dozen of people sneaking around in a tiny house with you?

And back to that quest? Why the hell do you end dead because you take the time of talking to some NPC? How is that in any shape or form acceptable?

Because ESO doesn't stop the game when you are talking to NPCs or when you start looking at a menu. Never has. I'm not sure what you expected. Exit the NPC dialogue options, defend yourself, and pick up right where you left off in the dialogue.

This isnt Skyrim. The world doesnt stop whem you open your inventory to eat dozens of cheese wheels. Neither am I the only player in the world anymore - there's a certain amount of immersion that we have to sacrifice for multi-player.

My immersion does not trump the right of other players to play the game in the intended fashion.

There may be dead bodies heaped around the marketplace where assassins have been at work. There may be naked people dancing at the Wayshrine. There may be people with very lore-unfriendly names running around or garish costumes. All of these may be deeply, horridly immersion-shattering to some people.

So what? Immersion does not trump the rights of players to play the content in an intended manner.

ZOS is not going to fundamentally alter the design of the entire game to instance your quests. That's just unrealistic and there's no money in it either. So your immersion is just going to have to accept sharing the quest areas with other players - because they are playing the game exactly as intended.

DLM

I guess this *** *** game caters to the worst.

There are ways to instance areas. Other games do it, that's called competence.

Guess I'm done with that garbage.

Sylvermynx

Heh. Personally I'm not at all thrilled with the instanced MQ - because (lag redping lag.....!) I have a hell of a time getting through it alone.

I'd KILL for the ability to bring a friend along....

When I thirst for "I myself and me" I just go play Skyrim for a while.

VaranisArano

DLM wrote: »

I guess this *** *** game caters to the worst.

There are ways to instance areas. Other games do it, that's called competence.

Guess I'm done with that garbage.

Here's what you can do in ESO under those restrictions. Go do the Instanced Mages Guild, Fighters Guild, and Main Quest. A few of those will require you to go to non-instanced delves, so mind you don't die while talking to a NPC, but the majority of those Questlines are solo instanced.

When you've done that and you have a build capable of soloing group dungeons, you can go do the dungeons, solo, at your own pace and enjoying the story by yourself.

Craglorn also has some instances, though be prepared that those are also on the tougher end.

Unfortunately, you'll miss out on the excellent Alliance Questlines, Summerset Chapter, and the DLCs. Then again, I find that older content often has much less players running around, unlike, say, the brand new Murkmire prologue everyone is doing to get access to the swamp jelly pet.

Hope that helps you find something you can enjoy.

ArchMikem

You're gonna get served the "It's an MMO" excuse anyway, because it's the truth. There are a handful of solo instanced Quest areas throughout the game but a majority of them are shared spaces and you'll just have to either deal with it, or do your questing in the off hours, or maybe just forget Summerset for a while. You seem like a new player, why don't you go through your Alliance Questline? I'm positive you'll be quite alone questing through the base game areas and once you've done all that and leveled up with better gear, you won't find yourself in the position again where a single boss attack one shots you in the middle of a dialogue screen.

AcadianPaladin

I'm primarily a solo player. The game was marketed as suitable for and accepting of solo players. I sometimes hear, 'Just go play Skyrim.' After 4000 hours in Oblivion followed by 4000 hours Skyrim, frankly those games are simply too small and do not provide the massive scale of ESO. That's why this soloer plays ESO. Would I prefer it to be single player only? You bet; however, I recognize that for ESO to be successful it needs a large base of players. Therefore, whether we like it or not, PvP, PvE, Group, Solo all need each other or the game would shrink and become unsustainable. Though I don't care for grouping or PvP, I readily recognize and accept that those who do enjoy those activities are necessary to keep the game running. All I ask is the recognition that solo players are also a significant and necessary part of this game.

geonsocal

hmmmm, if you died to some quest boss' aoe damage - maybe this is a learn to build situation...

just kidding...

VaranisArano

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm primarily a solo player. The game was marketed as suitable for and accepting of solo players. I sometimes hear, 'Just go play Skyrim.' After 4000 hours in Oblivion followed by 4000 hours Skyrim, frankly those games are simply too small and do not provide the massive scale of ESO. That's why this soloer plays ESO. Would I prefer it to be single player only? You bet; however, I recognize that for ESO to be successful it needs a large base of players. Therefore, whether we like it or not, PvP, PvE, Group, Solo all need each other or the game would shrink and become unsustainable. Though I don't care for grouping or PvP, I readily recognize and accept that those who do enjoy those activities are necessary to keep the game running. All I ask is the recognition that solo players are also a significant and necessary part of this game.

ESO is already far friendlier to solo players than it was when I started playing, pre One Tamriel. Nearly all overland questing is soloable with a decent build, with a good build and experience, you can solo world bosses and normal group dungeons.

So you can play a large part of the content on your own.

What you can't do, outside of a few specific questlines, group dungeons, or arenas which are designed to be instanced, is play alone. The overland zones, delves, and public dungeons are designed to be open to everyone.

I don't mean this dismissively, but when I want to play alone, I boot up Skyrim and trek up to High Hrothgar for the nth time. O. In ESO, I go do Maelstrom Arena or solo a group dungeon. In ESO, I can play solo, but doing overland quests, delves, and public dungeons means I accept that there are other players playing the game right alongside me, all of us playing the game as designed and intended.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

I consider ESO fine for solo play as it is. I do believe that when I start a conversation with an NCP out of combat I should marked as immune until I finish the conversation. I've had players who I feel were trolling bring the combat on top of the quest NPC and I died before I could take any action. I understand death isn't a big deal in this game or most any MMO for that matter it is just the annoyance of time and progress lost.

Sylvermynx

VaranisArano wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm primarily a solo player. The game was marketed as suitable for and accepting of solo players. I sometimes hear, 'Just go play Skyrim.' After 4000 hours in Oblivion followed by 4000 hours Skyrim, frankly those games are simply too small and do not provide the massive scale of ESO. That's why this soloer plays ESO. Would I prefer it to be single player only? You bet; however, I recognize that for ESO to be successful it needs a large base of players. Therefore, whether we like it or not, PvP, PvE, Group, Solo all need each other or the game would shrink and become unsustainable. Though I don't care for grouping or PvP, I readily recognize and accept that those who do enjoy those activities are necessary to keep the game running. All I ask is the recognition that solo players are also a significant and necessary part of this game.

ESO is already far friendlier to solo players than it was when I started playing, pre One Tamriel. Nearly all overland questing is soloable with a decent build, with a good build and experience, you can solo world bosses and normal group dungeons.

So you can play a large part of the content on your own.

What you can't do, outside of a few specific questlines, group dungeons, or arenas which are designed to be instanced, is play alone. The overland zones, delves, and public dungeons are designed to be open to everyone.

I don't mean this dismissively, but when I want to play alone, I boot up Skyrim and trek up to High Hrothgar for the nth time. O. In ESO, I go do Maelstrom Arena or solo a group dungeon. In ESO, I can play solo, but doing overland quests, delves, and public dungeons means I accept that there are other players playing the game right alongside me, all of us playing the game as designed and intended.

And that's what I do love about MMOs - the world is alive, thriving, and moving around one. Unlike SPMRGs like Skyrim, ESO is a world where time progresses and the world changes with the times. In Skyrim for instance, time moves, but the world is static. That's mitigated to some extent with mods, but even outstanding mods like Legacy of the Dragonborn or Beyond Skyrim: Bruma don't provide the same sense of "alive" as an MMO does.

AcadianPaladin

VaranisArano wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm primarily a solo player. The game was marketed as suitable for and accepting of solo players. I sometimes hear, 'Just go play Skyrim.' After 4000 hours in Oblivion followed by 4000 hours Skyrim, frankly those games are simply too small and do not provide the massive scale of ESO. That's why this soloer plays ESO. Would I prefer it to be single player only? You bet; however, I recognize that for ESO to be successful it needs a large base of players. Therefore, whether we like it or not, PvP, PvE, Group, Solo all need each other or the game would shrink and become unsustainable. Though I don't care for grouping or PvP, I readily recognize and accept that those who do enjoy those activities are necessary to keep the game running. All I ask is the recognition that solo players are also a significant and necessary part of this game.

ESO is already far friendlier to solo players than it was when I started playing, pre One Tamriel. Nearly all overland questing is soloable with a decent build, with a good build and experience, you can solo world bosses and normal group dungeons.

So you can play a large part of the content on your own.

What you can't do, outside of a few specific questlines, group dungeons, or arenas which are designed to be instanced, is play alone. The overland zones, delves, and public dungeons are designed to be open to everyone.

I don't mean this dismissively, but when I want to play alone, I boot up Skyrim and trek up to High Hrothgar for the nth time. O. In ESO, I go do Maelstrom Arena or solo a group dungeon. In ESO, I can play solo, but doing overland quests, delves, and public dungeons means I accept that there are other players playing the game right alongside me, all of us playing the game as designed and intended.

And not taken dismissively. Indeed, the ability (with a good build) to solo most non-DLC WB and many non-DLC normal group dungeons is something I am very thankful for. As primarily a solo player, that is essentially my 'end game' and I thoroughly enjoy it. I find there are indeed adequate opportunities to be 'alone' in the game, ranging from the MQ, MG, FG questlines to soloing the normal group dungeons that I can manage. It would break my heart if the non-DLC normal group dungeons and non-DLC WBs were buffed up too much for a decent solo build to handle. The DLC dungeons and WBs are too hard for me and that is fine - I leave them for those who like to group.

In a game like Skyrim, I found that top quality companion mods really took any loneliness out of my game while still letting me focus completely on my character and her game world (instead of other players). My problem with the single player TES games is that, after lots of hours, they simply become too 'small'.

Gatviper

I've been there, quest to kill a boss in a quest zone, another went ahead of me, killed the boss, so when I arrived, there was a NPC corpse and no one around. So what, I've waited for 5min and the named boss I needed spawned again for me to kill. No big deal, it's not like you've got to wait 30min or 1h for a named boss to spawn again, like in some older MMORPGs.

ImmortalCX

Zos needs to sell a solo scroll. When under its influence, all quest areas are instanced. How hard can that be?

TheCyberDruid

DLM wrote: »

I guess this *** *** game caters to the worst.

There are ways to instance areas. Other games do it, that's called competence.

Guess I'm done with that garbage.

Guess if you get this upset about it then it might indeed be time to move on...

Jeremy

DLM wrote: »

The more I am advancing through the game the more I am seriously getting tired of how it is not instancing story areas, I insist on story. How frickin hard is it to acknowledge that maybe we don't want to share some areas with other people? And don't serve me the MMO excuse, other games do it.

I was just doing some side quest in Summerset, the one with the book that makes people think they are some hero and that ends in the library. I get to the end, was talking to the NPC and apparently some boss fight was supposed to take place. I can't be so sure as actually someone else following me was also on the quest and triggered the fight. I was talking to the NPC for **** sake, why am I ending dead from an AOE while I am talking to the damn NPC?

INSTANCE THESE ****** DAMN AREAS!!!!!

Or while you are talking to a NPC someone else kills the boss of the quest line and finishes the quest for you. That's a little annoying as well.

To be honest: the only place this game functions effectively as multiplayer game is in dungeons and maybe world bosses. Every where else other players are more of a nuisance than they are a help. They take the nodes you're after, your treasure chests, kill your quest objectives (or in your case get you killed). It's a general problem with modern MMORPG design. For some reason the masses prefer multiplayer role player games to be designed for solo play. Don't ask me why, but they do.

Back in old school MMORPGs soloing was rough, so you were grateful for any help you could get along the way. Sadly, that's no longer the case.

VaranisArano

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Zos needs to sell a solo scroll. When under its influence, all quest areas are instanced. How hard can that be?

I dont know - how hard do you think it would be to instance all of Overland Summerset? Or Stonefalls? On a new character, it feels like I can't walk 100 feet without stumbling over some quest. Make sure to multiply those instances by however many people are using the scrolls + the way we already have at least two instances that we all regularly play in.

RedRook

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm primarily a solo player. The game was marketed as suitable for and accepting of solo players. I sometimes hear, 'Just go play Skyrim.' After 4000 hours in Oblivion followed by 4000 hours Skyrim, frankly those games are simply too small and do not provide the massive scale of ESO. That's why this soloer plays ESO. Would I prefer it to be single player only? You bet; however, I recognize that for ESO to be successful it needs a large base of players. Therefore, whether we like it or not, PvP, PvE, Group, Solo all need each other or the game would shrink and become unsustainable. Though I don't care for grouping or PvP, I readily recognize and accept that those who do enjoy those activities are necessary to keep the game running. All I ask is the recognition that solo players are also a significant and necessary part of this game.

Well said. That segment of the player base seems to get ignored a lot; they take a lot of collateral damage when something gets nerfed for group PVE or for PVP. It would be nice if they got some love. More instancing for indoor once-per-character quests would be nice.

myskyrim26

I agree with @DLM.
I hate the MMO aspect of ESO. I hate all people messing around when I'm doing quests. I wish quests had an option: solo or group.
Please, don't advise people like us to play Skyrim. I want to experience ESO stories in a proper way. Just look at the Coldharbour: it is supposed to be a horrible place. But how it can be horrible with all that crowds of colorfully dressed characters on fancy mounts? How can Alik'r be a hot desert when you see someone riding Frostbane mounts and bears?
I wish ESO had a single-player version...

JamieAubrey

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its an MMO.

When I started playing before One Tamriel, I was grateful for other people, because I couldnt defeat Blaze and Ragebinder on my own. I was level 9, they were level 9 bosses, and they kicked my butt alone.

If only we had this for old school Doshia

Shraar

Any way it is an MMO. No it's not an excuse, it's a reason, you need to accept that and understand when you're dead wrong!

DLM wrote: »

And back to that quest, why the hell do you end dead because you take the time of talking to some NPC? How is that in any shape or form acceptable?

Maybe don't stop for long conversations in monster infested dungeons and expect to be safe lol? MMO or not that's just plain errr well you know. You should know better!

If you're struggling with immersion, just remember that. Imagine the monsters came back and you were killed because you weren't paying attention, or if that's too much of a stretch imagine a rival adventurer came by and killed you out of competition or maybe mistook you for a monster, no one could blame him!

But suffice to say if you're screaming in all caps you're not fit for an MMORPG and should play Skyrim, play nice with others, stop acting entitled, you need to share the space!

Haha have we even met before?

DLM wrote: »

I guess this *** *** game caters to the worst.

There are ways to instance areas. Other games do it, that's called competence.

Guess I'm done with that garbage.

I mean you sound like such a nasty person, I'm glad the game lets others indirectly kill you xD

MaleAmazon

When I played Elite Dangerous the best thing about it was pressing 'solo mode'.

Yes it´s an MMO. But it would be nice if single player quests could at least be optionally instanced. I don´t care much about it anymore since I´m just used to it, but when the game came out... and you couldn´t finish a delve because bots + 10 other people instanuked the boss every time it respawned... and I couldn´t get a sense of accomplishment because someone else waltzed in and smashed 'my' boss to pieces...

Yeah less of that please.

Amanuensis

Shraar wrote: »

Any way it is an MMO. No it's not an excuse, it's a reason, you need to accept that and understand when you're dead wrong!

DLM wrote: »

And back to that quest, why the hell do you end dead because you take the time of talking to some NPC? How is that in any shape or form acceptable?

Maybe don't stop for long conversations in monster infested dungeons and expect to be safe lol? MMO or not that's just plain errr well you know. You should know better!

If you're struggling with immersion, just remember that. Imagine the monsters came back and you were killed because you weren't paying attention, or if that's too much of a stretch imagine a rival adventurer came by and killed you out of competition or maybe mistook you for a monster, no one could blame him!

But suffice to say if you're screaming in all caps you're not fit for an MMORPG and should play Skyrim, play nice with others, stop acting entitled, you need to share the space!

Haha have we even met before?

DLM wrote: »

I guess this *** *** game caters to the worst.

There are ways to instance areas. Other games do it, that's called competence.

Guess I'm done with that garbage.

I mean you sound like such a nasty person, I'm glad the game lets others indirectly kill you xD

Oh, my. The irony...

zaria

GreenHere wrote: »

I'm afraid the answer likely boils down to it having nothing to do with fun. It's cost effective. Letting us share areas that maybe "should" be instanced is less work, and less expense at the end of the day. That's probably all there is to it.

Always nice to run into others then doing an public dungeon late at night, 90% agree to group up.
Yes during this event too many farm public dungeons for xp, it was more absurd during morrowind launch then it was more players than enemies in delves.

VaranisArano

JamieAubrey wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its an MMO.

When I started playing before One Tamriel, I was grateful for other people, because I couldnt defeat Blaze and Ragebinder on my own. I was level 9, they were level 9 bosses, and they kicked my butt alone.

If only we had this for old school Doshia

For me, it was that Main Quest where

Sai Sahan has the brilliant idea to hide the Amulet of Kings inside a crypt and there's like 3 bosses to deal with while the greatest warrior the Empire has ever had can't tank, the nearly-a-sword-saint can't DPS, and the Imperial Battlemage only knows fear spells. That fight was just frustrating!

Shawn_PT

The whole 'drop the dialogue, defend yourself and start again' argument falls when the fact that the boss ahead is killed while we're nearby advances the quest, whether we're involved or not. I've had several instances where I'm talking to an NPC knowing there's a fight ahead. Someone comes, cue the red screen outline while in dialogue, and in five seconds I'm kicked out of the dialogue and the quest advances.

Wait. What were you saying about being careful about the whole situation? Nevermind that, the NPC has ran off already and I'm left thinking WTF was that all about.

Now I know better. If I'm doing a quest somewhere and there's someone else around, I stop. Wait for them to run ahead. If I see them fighting a boss I get the hell out of there, go back as far as I can to not be involved in the fight in any possible way. Make sure they are well gone and done, and only then do I advance and force the quest boss to respawn. It's an MMO. We shouldn't have to play defensively and act selfishly in order to enjoy the quest dialogue.

GreenHere

VaranisArano wrote: »

JamieAubrey wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its an MMO.

When I started playing before One Tamriel, I was grateful for other people, because I couldnt defeat Blaze and Ragebinder on my own. I was level 9, they were level 9 bosses, and they kicked my butt alone.

If only we had this for old school Doshia

For me, it was that Main Quest where

Sai Sahan has the brilliant idea to hide the Amulet of Kings inside a crypt and there's like 3 bosses to deal with while the greatest warrior the Empire has ever had can't tank, the nearly-a-sword-saint can't DPS, and the Imperial Battlemage only knows fear spells. That fight was just frustrating!

Wait, so you're saying I shouldn't be modeling my builds after those NPCs? I have to rethink all my characters!






Jokes aside, the NPC companions are laughably useless. Definitely takes away from their credibility as heroic figures, as your post deftly points out.