Murkmire PvP Tiers (I think I see a trend here)

ezio45

lucky_dutch wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Small-scale/BGs:

Stamblade
StamDK
Stamplar /Stamden
MagDK
Stamsorc/Magplar
Magblade
Magsorc
Magden


1vX:

Stamblade
Stamplar
Stamden / StamDK
Magblade
Magplar
MagDK
Stamsorc
MagSorc
Magden


This I feel Is probable a more accurate arrangement, at least for me

I think you’re underrating Stamsorc unfairly. The nerf to their heals sucks for them but in a meta where mobility is down the toilet, their access to minor expedition and a blink is amazing for BGs. They’re also really well setup to take advantage of the impending heavy bleed meta.

should have clarified, I mean open world cyro, even small scale

lucky_dutch

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I'll be straight I think your list is bad.

I’m not an expert at either but for me it’s because Stam can still do loads of damage in heavy whilst magdk (as with all mag classes) takes a massive damage hit to wear heavy.

The nerf to healing ward really hurts LA MagDKs so overall they’re probably a tad behind. Also, no execute is a bit of a factor when considering performance in BGs.

I'm sorry but magDk and stamDK in heavy both have about same mobility now. How is stam any better than mag in this case? I don't understand how a MASSIVE nerf to stamina mobility is gonna make magicka worse? Care to explain ?

And magplars/magdens will be borderline neccessary for open world groups(small scale or not) from now on.

Edit: on the topic of healing ward, I would agree for magsorcs but magDK has great self healing options already. And you don't need an execute when your spammable hits like an execute.

StamDKs are top-tier. Stop crying over nothing.

StamDKs are ok. They're however not top tier. You magDk mains are getting really delusional at this point. swift meta is gone, FM is nerfed, speed pots are done for. I'm not crying over nothing, you are.

I don’t play MagDK.

Speed might be nerfed for you but guess what? It’s nerfed for everyone else too!

Go on PTS with your StamDK and start playing around with master infused axes and let me know how you get on.

StamDK are top-tier.

Ragnarock41

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I'll be straight I think your list is bad.

I’m not an expert at either but for me it’s because Stam can still do loads of damage in heavy whilst magdk (as with all mag classes) takes a massive damage hit to wear heavy.

The nerf to healing ward really hurts LA MagDKs so overall they’re probably a tad behind. Also, no execute is a bit of a factor when considering performance in BGs.

I'm sorry but magDk and stamDK in heavy both have about same mobility now. How is stam any better than mag in this case? I don't understand how a MASSIVE nerf to stamina mobility is gonna make magicka worse? Care to explain ?

And magplars/magdens will be borderline neccessary for open world groups(small scale or not) from now on.

Edit: on the topic of healing ward, I would agree for magsorcs but magDK has great self healing options already. And you don't need an execute when your spammable hits like an execute.

StamDKs are top-tier. Stop crying over nothing.

StamDKs are ok. They're however not top tier. You magDk mains are getting really delusional at this point. swift meta is gone, FM is nerfed, speed pots are done for. I'm not crying over nothing, you are.

I don’t play MagDK.

Speed might be nerfed for you but guess what? It’s nerfed for everyone else too!

Go on PTS with your StamDK and start playing around with master infused axes and let me know how you get on.

StamDK are top-tier.

Well speed pots with FM were mainly what made stamina ''fast''. Now thats gone. That is a massive nerf to all heavy stam bruisers, and if you can't take that into account you shouldn't be doing ''tier lists'' here I believe.

''stamDK top tier cause master dw''

kek. Is this the best argument you can come up with? Oh yeah I'm a poison dot class that synergies best with sword and board.

I should be so happy that bleeds hit 3x harder than my own dots and Its totally only good for me and not for other stamina classes, no sir, Its not like stamsorcs or stamblades can use those bleeds, only me!

thankyourat

I think magblade, magsorc and magden will be at the bottom for 1vX with all the nerfs. They'll still be playable though. I think you'll see this patch though that magdk and magplar will actually be better than magblade and magsorc for 1vX. Mag dk is actually a top tier class right now

templesus

ezio45 wrote: »

Small-scale/BGs:

Stamblade
StamDK
Stamplar /Stamden
MagDK
Stamsorc/Magplar
Magblade
Magsorc
Magden


1vX:

Stamblade
Stamplar
Stamden / StamDK
Magblade
Magplar
MagDK
Stamsorc
MagSorc
Magden


This I feel Is probable a more accurate arrangement, at least for me

This is probably one of the worst 1vX lists I’ve seen. StamDen above stamplar and equal to Stam dk, and Stam sorc at the bottom? I have a feeling you’re the type who mains mag sorc, sees the nerfs and then rolls Stam sorc, so you just feel obliged to say your class is bad.

I have 1vXed on every class in this game, my main is Stamplar, second is Magplar, and after that my most played are Magblade, MagSorc, Stamden and StamDk (I feel everyone who posts lists should also say what they main and have most experience playing), the most accurate 1vX rankings imo are:

S Tier: Stamblade
A Tier: Stamden
B Tier: Stam Sorc
C Tier: Stamplar, StamDK
D Tier: Magblade, MagSorc
F Tier: Magplar, MagDk, Magden

Stamblade has been and still is at the top of every Stam class. Don’t think that’ll ever change. No need to explain them being S Tier. Stamden got buffs to the extent I almost want to put them at S Tier, but I’ll be fair the major evasion changes do hit them as well so ill keep them at A. Stam sorc got nerfed, but with all the speed nerfs their mobility is now exceedingly higher then the other Stam classes which warrants them being above the rest of the tiers.

Stamplar and StamDk will be the two worst Stam classes, Stamplar is going to have the worst survivability of any Stam class next patch with loss of minor protection and minor vitality as well as dodge roll changes and speed nerfs. On top of that anyone using major evasion (which with the DW changes will be 90% of cyrodiil) is going to mitigate Templar’s damage by 25%. If you haven’t tested damage vs heavy armor major evasion builds on PTS yet I highly suggest it to anyone before you think about playing Stamplar. StamDk has decent survivability, however is getting a damage buff, but with the speed nerfs is just another dizzy swing class albeit one with terrible mobility.

Magblade and MagSorc are both rated above the other mag classes due to their mobility and nothing else. Anyone who plays the bottom 3 in 1vX KNOWS how garbage those classes are at 1vXing, mainly due to the fact that mist form is just so outdated for mobility that you literally die in it. Just look how many people you see Xing on them right now.

Ocelot9x

I love tier lists thread aka: I put my main class lower then it should and the last class I’ve been killed by in the first spot. My “objective” tiers?

Small scale:
Stamwarden
Magplar
Stamsorc
Magwarden
Magdk
Stamplar
Magsorc
Magnb
Stamnb
Stam dk

1vX
Stamnb
Stamwarden
Magsorc
Stamsorc
Stam dk
Stamplar
Magnb
Magdk
Magplar
Magden

lucky_dutch

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love tier lists thread aka: I put my main class lower then it should and the last class I’ve been killed by in the first spot. My “objective” tiers?

Haha fair observation but I was objective as I can be with list in OP.

If I was including personal bias I’d put stamsorcs higher as I find them annoying as ***.

JWillCHS

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I’d put magPlar in the top group for small scale and BGs.

For healbots yea but for DPS they’re garbage.

I agree. Any decent magicka Templar(or any other class) can step in Cyrodiil and a kill X amount of people by her or himself. I don't think that's something people argue.

But if you were to step into a Battleground as a magplar DPS, I bet getting over 1 million damage by the end of the match[that doesn't run out of time] will be a struggle.

Not really. I've ran quite a few BGs on my Magplar. Got 1,2 mill dmg and 600k healing as my most. Usually around 800-900k dmg and ~500k healing done. So in a BG, I would argue that magplar is rly good. Also magDK/MagNB is really strong in there. I did duo on my magplar with magnb/magdk. It was so fun, rofl. Killed so many things.

But then you meet a 4-man premade stamden or stamsorc or stamDK group and you just get roflstomped by 3 dawnbreakers and a leap. :^

Also, magplar/magden/magdk lowest on 1vX cus of mobility. Sorcs still do it well, 'cus they have mobility that no other mag-class has. Magplar has a tiny advantage of the other 2 classes, as the purge can be quite helpful.

But every stamina class is above every magicka class in any 1vX. Same for solo BG mostly. As a magicka class, you rely more on your team/people around you, imo. In a lot of cases.

I'm not saying that it can't be done because I've put up similar numbers with my magplar. But I also prefer to solo-queue than group-queue since I have limit on how much I can play. And so you don't have the communication, the synergy(sometimes), or the group skill to consistently pull those numbers especially when it's hard to anticipate the match ups. I once went 0-4-0 with 1.1 million damage and 350k healing. Lmao

wheem_ESO

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love tier lists thread aka: I put my main class lower then it should and the last class I’ve been killed by in the first spot. My “objective” tiers?

Small scale:
Stamwarden
Magplar
Stamsorc
Magwarden
Magdk
Stamplar
Magsorc
Magnb
Stamnb
Stam dk

1vX
Stamnb
Stamwarden
Magsorc
Stamsorc
Stam dk
Stamplar
Magnb
Magdk
Magplar
Magden

Are you, like the OP, assuming damage-oriented roles for your tiers? It seems as though everyone claiming that Magicka Templars and Magicka Wardens are oh-so-good are referring to dedicated support specs.

I've been playing Magicka Warden as main since Morrowind came out, and in a damage oriented role, it by no means compares to Stamina setups. Can Mag Wardens do good damage? Of course. But, as soon as you come up against the players that actually know how to fight you, it's GG. Once you take away a Mag Warden's Shalks (which I find very easy to do to other Mag Wardens, when I actually encounter any in BGs), their damage goes into the toilet.

Syiccal

JWillCHS wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I’d put magPlar in the top group for small scale and BGs.

For healbots yea but for DPS they’re garbage.

I agree. Any decent magicka Templar(or any other class) can step in Cyrodiil and a kill X amount of people by her or himself. I don't think that's something people argue.

But if you were to step into a Battleground as a magplar DPS, I bet getting over 1 million damage by the end of the match[that doesn't run out of time] will be a struggle.

I have scored over 1m dmg plenty of times on my magplar..it has nothing to do with my magplar however it's do it with how good the heals are on the other teams or how tanky they are. 1m dmg doesn't mean anything, think about it you have super high dps you will be doing less dmg overall as ppl will die quicker. ..unless as mentioned the other team have strong heals etc

lucky_dutch

Syiccal wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I’d put magPlar in the top group for small scale and BGs.

For healbots yea but for DPS they’re garbage.

I agree. Any decent magicka Templar(or any other class) can step in Cyrodiil and a kill X amount of people by her or himself. I don't think that's something people argue.

But if you were to step into a Battleground as a magplar DPS, I bet getting over 1 million damage by the end of the match[that doesn't run out of time] will be a struggle.

I have scored over 1m dmg plenty of times on my magplar..it has nothing to do with my magplar however it's do it with how good the heals are on the other teams or how tanky they are. 1m dmg doesn't mean anything, think about it you have super high dps you will be doing less dmg overall as ppl will die quicker. ..unless as mentioned the other team have strong heals etc

So accurate. High total damage games tend to mean nobody was killing anything and the top scorer is on like 10 kills.

The reason most people put heavy Stamblade at the top of their tier lists atm is that most stam have a pretty similar level of steady pressure but Stamblades have the best combo for finishing a target-off.

Damage means nothing other than you were fighting for a long time.

Ocelot9x

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love tier lists thread aka: I put my main class lower then it should and the last class I’ve been killed by in the first spot. My “objective” tiers?

Small scale:
Stamwarden
Magplar
Stamsorc
Magwarden
Magdk
Stamplar
Magsorc
Magnb
Stamnb
Stam dk

1vX
Stamnb
Stamwarden
Magsorc
Stamsorc
Stam dk
Stamplar
Magnb
Magdk
Magplar
Magden

Are you, like the OP, assuming damage-oriented roles for your tiers? It seems as though everyone claiming that Magicka Templars and Magicka Wardens are oh-so-good are referring to dedicated support specs.

I've been playing Magicka Warden as main since Morrowind came out, and in a damage oriented role, it by no means compares to Stamina setups. Can Mag Wardens do good damage? Of course. But, as soon as you come up against the players that actually know how to fight you, it's GG. Once you take away a Mag Warden's Shalks (which I find very easy to do to other Mag Wardens, when I actually encounter any in BGs), their damage goes into the toilet.

Actually magden is rly good for small scaling with every build you out on him. Massive heals,aoe degli,permafrost,shalks and snares , he got everything he need to be a top tier small group pvp class and as you can see I ranked him last for 1vxing

NuarBlack

templesus wrote: »

Speaking on 1vXing ~ Agreed. Stamina classes have higher floors then Magicka classes do (bar stamblade and stamden those 2 should just be removed from the game at this point they are over performing so much) and thus are rightfully better when it comes to 1vXing in general.

Higher input = Higher Output

Higher Floor SHOULD = Higher Ceiling

Uh no it should be the exact opposite or you are misusing terms here. When you talk about the floor this is the bare minimum a class will do if someone beats their face into the keyboard/controller not the bare minimum skill to use the class properly. So a higher Floor means the easier it is to get the class to perform. Or else the whole idea of bringing the floor and ceiling closer or further away makes no sense. Your worse players are on the floor, best are at the ceiling. Complicated classes will have lower floors, while simpler classes will have higher.

Ideally all classes have similar floors and ceilings. Not likely to happen so at minimum I do agree more complicated classes aka ones with lower floors, should reward you with the highest ceilings or definitely not be lower than simpler ones.

f047ys3v3n

Stam toons were out performing mag toons before they cut shields dramatically. Just a more of that same now. Mobility is king. It dosen't hurt that stam toons abilities hit much harder, their CC's are better, and bleeds are useful when mag ground dots arn't.

leepalmer95

lucky_dutch wrote: »

These are DPS setups I'm referring to. Some of the mag classes perform better than this as healer builds.

Small-scale/BGs:

1. Stamblade
2. Stamden
3. Stamsorc
4. StamDK
5. Stamplar
6. MagDK
7. Magsorc
8. Magplar
9. Magblade
10. Magden

1vX:

1. Stamblade
2. Stamden
3. Stamsorc
4. StamDK
5. Stamplar
6. Magblade
7. MagSorc
8. Magplar
9. MagDK
10. Magden

Magden is way up there around 3rd for small scale, best support and group class in the game by far.

Stam[lar > stam dk and stam sorc.

Mag sorc is pretty much bottom now in both 1vx and small scale. Pointless class in pvp unless you make a negater which isn't really a mag sorc.

Magplar is much better than a mag sorc/ mag dk for small scale. Mag dk is ok but a magden is just a better version of mag dk for group play.

Any magicka build relying in shields or not a block type class is now bad.

Trancestor

People still think magden is bad lul, if you build it right i'd put magden on the top of the mag list in smallscale, BG's AND 1vx. yes i'm that crazy. Magden is OP.

Haashhtaag

Here is my list for 4-8 man small scale groups.


1. Stamden - best AoE burst, surivival, and added group utility.
2. Magplar(healers) - nuff said
3. Stamsorc(negates, AoE damage, implosion, and can kite the best)
4. Stamplar(main DPs ability is AoE extra purify for group, power of the light on specific targets that you need to kill quick)
5. Magden(can be used as a damage dealer/support/AoE defile - best group utility class)
6. StamDK(surivability, leap, group buffs, etc)
7. MagDK(great for locking down opponents, AoE interupt, leap, shifting standard, AoE damage, surivability)
8. StamNB(too single target oriented for small scale effectiveness)
9. Magsorc(survives better than magNB and can provide destro ult and better execute than MagNB plus streak CC and maneuvering)
10. MagNB(really only good if you want a bomber but dies too frequently)


4-6 could all be reordered differently and are so close.