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Here's a review of all Magsorc class skills
Biro123
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Following the same vein of the recent DK thread.. Aimed at ungrouped PVP
Dark Magic
Negate
Good for group play (unless opponents are all stam), useless for solo play.
Frags
Meant to be the sorc 'big hitter'. Easily dodged/blocked/cloaked etc. so when it hits, it should HIT. Recent nerfs have made it lacklustre.
Perhaps nerfmire will be better - but I'm not sure how the delay will play out.
Reliant on a proc - which means it cannot be spammed and so has to be part of a damage combo. (bar-space issue). Too expensive to hard-cast
Encase
The cleave root. Most targets are immune due to fwd momentum - and very expensive. Perhaps useful on a group-based negate/cc bot - but not for solo.
Rune Prison
Unblockable stun with a delay. Would have been useful vs the perma-block-tanks of pre-morrowind - too easy to avoid now, and difficult to justify a bar-slot since you cannot even cast it if the target is cc-immune. The damage component is too unreliable. So basically can only really be used every 5 seconds(or is it 7? - can never remember). Can still be used to ensure a meteor hit - but timing has to be dead on - if it isn't, its a long wait till you can try again.
The uncastability of it adds to sorc's bar-space issues.
Dark Exchange
This is odd. Magsorcs typically benefit from quite a few passive mag recovery bonuses(class/racial and armour) - so if you build to need dark exchange, you're losing some of the benefit of these. Imho, the cast time is too long and the 0.2 seconds delay at the end is clunky - stopping you from bar-swapping as the animation finishes. Getting some buffs in murkmire, but the clunkyness is still frustrating. Cannot be block-cast for a usable heal while frost-staff blocking..
Mines
Expensive - and not enough of a deterrent to the current tanky meta. Can be useful if you can time a burst with somebody running on to them. I prefer mobile combat more and hate the idea of an expensive cast being left as you move to another location.
I'd like to fit them on my bar more often - but its another non-spammable and also situational.. Bar is already full of non-spammable must-haves.
Tomb is useless for PVP - cannot target players - only the ground - so its really just like mines, but less of them. Useful at choke points.
Passives - All ok - except blood-magic which is underwhelming given you rarely hit with dark-magic abilities. Would be great if cage damage was changed to a dot.
Daedric Summoning
Atro
Too easy for opponents to move away from (for solo) - but can be useful for you to use it to los. Damage can build up if an opponent stays close enough.
But again, I don't like expensive stuff that I'll leave on the floor and move away from. Useful at choke-points.
Familiar
Useless for open-world.
Curse
Great in that it hits through block and dodge (which means its a must-have). Damage is mediocre, 2nd hit is pointless since you never wait for it. Casting on a second opponent removes it from the first, so truly not spammable, and so contributes to the bar-space issue. Will kill nothing on its own so needs combining with other damage abilites.
Twilight
Matriarch is useful currently on PC if you can keep it passive. Gives great heals. Not sure post-murkmire.. I suspect the shield will be too weak on it - and smaller magika pools will make the heals even weaker. Would love to be able to use it without shields on a tanky setup - but unfortunately shields are needed to keep the pet alive.
The damage pet is useless open-world.
Cunjored Ward
The magsorcs main class defence. Already nullified with oblivion damage (along with the secondary, light-armour defence). Getting a MAJOR nerf in murkmire for damage builds - and possibly a slight buff for tanky builds. Hard to see how the meta will go. I suspect that for sorcs to be able to use their class defence, they will have to become quite tanky - and lose a lot of damage in the process. But what can they combine with this for defence.. what heals? blocking doesn't reduce damage shield take.. dodging will be more limited as impen is needed rather than well-fitted..
Bound armour..
Annoying. Its a wasted slot used to get the kind of buffs that magblades get free from passives. (recovery boosts and max mag). The active effect of block damage reduction is useless in PVP for its cost/duration and lack of synergies with shields. Maybe cost reduction would be more useful? Inner Light is just better in all ways.
Passives - Mostly useless unless you have a pet build - apart from the ulti cost-reduction (but this is no better than what other classes get for ulti generation)
Stormcalling
Overload
Currently just used for the extra bar-space - which is most needed for long-term buffs.. Or on some 1-trick gank-builds. Too clunky to switch on and off in combat, denies access to both bars often leaving your defences unusable - and you cannot weave with it. slow, and easily avoidable.
Post Murkmire, that bar-slot is lost - not sure how useful it will be as a real offensive ulti - will see.
Mages Fury
Class execute. Currently broken in a number of ways - targeting dead bodies, losing the 4-second delayed effect, too much delay etc... Supposed to be fixed with murkmire.
The cause of a LOT of cries in BG's for kill-stealing (more a scoring issue than an ability issue). I love the animation and audio on it - satisfying to use. Not really spammable given the really low threshold (20%) - again contributing to bar-space issues with yet another non-spammable..
Lightning form
Major Resolve/Ward for sorcs, very small range, low damage AOE and 7 seconds of major exped. Sounds like quite a lot in one package, but its expensive - and those resolve/ward buffs are currently useless when shielded (not so for Murkmire). Damage rarely hits anything, and major exped deasn't really do much with all the snares today. Exped duration getting heavily nerfed with Murkmire - but skill will be necessary for resolve/ward creating another pain point for bar-space. Given the nerf - its too expensive for what it does. Needs to add a short dur snare removal, and have its damage aoe range increased significantly - just to proc surge if nothing else.
Lightning Splash
PVE ground AOE
Surge
Major sorcery and a small heal on crit (max 1 per second). Sounds good on paper, but the complete lack of dots, low Lightning Form range and the amount of cooldowns spent either shielding or setting up delayed burst can mean sorc does 0 damage for every 5 out of 6 seconds - meaning 0 surge procs. Even worse if you're forced on the defensive. Needs a buff imho for the heals to be useful. Perhaps make it heal more and on hit? Combine with lightning form range increase? Currently when you can get major sorcery from a pot, its VERY hard to justify slotting this without an overload buff-bar to put it on.
Bolt Escape.
Once upon a time this was the sorc's mobility. But in reality, it freezes you just before and after streaking, making it clunky, allowing any gap-closer to catch you or any stam sprinter. Useful to throw people of you as a target for a second when in melee. Breaks (your own) block when you use it if you try to block-cast. Only goes in the direction you're facing which can be bad when rooted (but being able to use it when rooted is one of its strengths). More of a misdirection tool than an escape tool in its current form. Useless when on a slope or curving ledge.
Doesn't work at all in high-lag scenarios. Can be useful to streak through AOE ball-groups or breaches.
Exponential cost increase makes it not-spammable (as are many other abilities)
Passives - Generally ok, but the shock damage bonus, for PVP only really affects the execute, and implosion is hugely overrated given that it only works on shock damage - and what is likely to proc it was gonna be an execute that kills the target anyway (death recaps are misleading as they apply overload damage before the hit that procced it). Only really useful for PVE boss-fights.
So, to summarise. for open-world, solo-play sorc has 8-9 useful abilities, all of which are non spammable, except the shield. Bear in mind having a non-spammable means filling in your cooldowns with another ability - in this case - another non-spammable, and another.. Is there any wonder sorcs struggle for bar-space?
Also worth mentioning that every non-spammable is expensive. Probably with the idea that they won't be used that often. But when you're stuck using expensive non-spammable after expensive non-spammable, is there any wonder sorcs have sustain issues?
As a side, there are no defensive sorc abilities that can be block-cast. except ward - which synergises extremely badly with blocking.. ie. block doesn't reduce damage done to the ward - but the block still costs you resources even if the ward took the whole full damage.
*Edit for some brief passives comments
Edited by Biro123 on October 12, 2018 2:18PM Dark Magic
Negate
Good for group play (unless opponents are all stam), useless for solo play.
Frags
Meant to be the sorc 'big hitter'. Easily dodged/blocked/cloaked etc. so when it hits, it should HIT. Recent nerfs have made it lacklustre.
Perhaps nerfmire will be better - but I'm not sure how the delay will play out.
Reliant on a proc - which means it cannot be spammed and so has to be part of a damage combo. (bar-space issue). Too expensive to hard-cast
Encase
The cleave root. Most targets are immune due to fwd momentum - and very expensive. Perhaps useful on a group-based negate/cc bot - but not for solo.
Rune Prison
Unblockable stun with a delay. Would have been useful vs the perma-block-tanks of pre-morrowind - too easy to avoid now, and difficult to justify a bar-slot since you cannot even cast it if the target is cc-immune. The damage component is too unreliable. So basically can only really be used every 5 seconds(or is it 7? - can never remember). Can still be used to ensure a meteor hit - but timing has to be dead on - if it isn't, its a long wait till you can try again.
The uncastability of it adds to sorc's bar-space issues.
Dark Exchange
This is odd. Magsorcs typically benefit from quite a few passive mag recovery bonuses(class/racial and armour) - so if you build to need dark exchange, you're losing some of the benefit of these. Imho, the cast time is too long and the 0.2 seconds delay at the end is clunky - stopping you from bar-swapping as the animation finishes. Getting some buffs in murkmire, but the clunkyness is still frustrating. Cannot be block-cast for a usable heal while frost-staff blocking..
Mines
Expensive - and not enough of a deterrent to the current tanky meta. Can be useful if you can time a burst with somebody running on to them. I prefer mobile combat more and hate the idea of an expensive cast being left as you move to another location.
I'd like to fit them on my bar more often - but its another non-spammable and also situational.. Bar is already full of non-spammable must-haves.
Tomb is useless for PVP - cannot target players - only the ground - so its really just like mines, but less of them. Useful at choke points.
Passives - All ok - except blood-magic which is underwhelming given you rarely hit with dark-magic abilities. Would be great if cage damage was changed to a dot.
Daedric Summoning
Atro
Too easy for opponents to move away from (for solo) - but can be useful for you to use it to los. Damage can build up if an opponent stays close enough.
But again, I don't like expensive stuff that I'll leave on the floor and move away from. Useful at choke-points.
Familiar
Useless for open-world.
Curse
Great in that it hits through block and dodge (which means its a must-have). Damage is mediocre, 2nd hit is pointless since you never wait for it. Casting on a second opponent removes it from the first, so truly not spammable, and so contributes to the bar-space issue. Will kill nothing on its own so needs combining with other damage abilites.
Twilight
Matriarch is useful currently on PC if you can keep it passive. Gives great heals. Not sure post-murkmire.. I suspect the shield will be too weak on it - and smaller magika pools will make the heals even weaker. Would love to be able to use it without shields on a tanky setup - but unfortunately shields are needed to keep the pet alive.
The damage pet is useless open-world.
Cunjored Ward
The magsorcs main class defence. Already nullified with oblivion damage (along with the secondary, light-armour defence). Getting a MAJOR nerf in murkmire for damage builds - and possibly a slight buff for tanky builds. Hard to see how the meta will go. I suspect that for sorcs to be able to use their class defence, they will have to become quite tanky - and lose a lot of damage in the process. But what can they combine with this for defence.. what heals? blocking doesn't reduce damage shield take.. dodging will be more limited as impen is needed rather than well-fitted..
Bound armour..
Annoying. Its a wasted slot used to get the kind of buffs that magblades get free from passives. (recovery boosts and max mag). The active effect of block damage reduction is useless in PVP for its cost/duration and lack of synergies with shields. Maybe cost reduction would be more useful? Inner Light is just better in all ways.
Passives - Mostly useless unless you have a pet build - apart from the ulti cost-reduction (but this is no better than what other classes get for ulti generation)
Stormcalling
Overload
Currently just used for the extra bar-space - which is most needed for long-term buffs.. Or on some 1-trick gank-builds. Too clunky to switch on and off in combat, denies access to both bars often leaving your defences unusable - and you cannot weave with it. slow, and easily avoidable.
Post Murkmire, that bar-slot is lost - not sure how useful it will be as a real offensive ulti - will see.
Mages Fury
Class execute. Currently broken in a number of ways - targeting dead bodies, losing the 4-second delayed effect, too much delay etc... Supposed to be fixed with murkmire.
The cause of a LOT of cries in BG's for kill-stealing (more a scoring issue than an ability issue). I love the animation and audio on it - satisfying to use. Not really spammable given the really low threshold (20%) - again contributing to bar-space issues with yet another non-spammable..
Lightning form
Major Resolve/Ward for sorcs, very small range, low damage AOE and 7 seconds of major exped. Sounds like quite a lot in one package, but its expensive - and those resolve/ward buffs are currently useless when shielded (not so for Murkmire). Damage rarely hits anything, and major exped deasn't really do much with all the snares today. Exped duration getting heavily nerfed with Murkmire - but skill will be necessary for resolve/ward creating another pain point for bar-space. Given the nerf - its too expensive for what it does. Needs to add a short dur snare removal, and have its damage aoe range increased significantly - just to proc surge if nothing else.
Lightning Splash
PVE ground AOE
Surge
Major sorcery and a small heal on crit (max 1 per second). Sounds good on paper, but the complete lack of dots, low Lightning Form range and the amount of cooldowns spent either shielding or setting up delayed burst can mean sorc does 0 damage for every 5 out of 6 seconds - meaning 0 surge procs. Even worse if you're forced on the defensive. Needs a buff imho for the heals to be useful. Perhaps make it heal more and on hit? Combine with lightning form range increase? Currently when you can get major sorcery from a pot, its VERY hard to justify slotting this without an overload buff-bar to put it on.
Bolt Escape.
Once upon a time this was the sorc's mobility. But in reality, it freezes you just before and after streaking, making it clunky, allowing any gap-closer to catch you or any stam sprinter. Useful to throw people of you as a target for a second when in melee. Breaks (your own) block when you use it if you try to block-cast. Only goes in the direction you're facing which can be bad when rooted (but being able to use it when rooted is one of its strengths). More of a misdirection tool than an escape tool in its current form. Useless when on a slope or curving ledge.
Doesn't work at all in high-lag scenarios. Can be useful to streak through AOE ball-groups or breaches.
Exponential cost increase makes it not-spammable (as are many other abilities)
Passives - Generally ok, but the shock damage bonus, for PVP only really affects the execute, and implosion is hugely overrated given that it only works on shock damage - and what is likely to proc it was gonna be an execute that kills the target anyway (death recaps are misleading as they apply overload damage before the hit that procced it). Only really useful for PVE boss-fights.
So, to summarise. for open-world, solo-play sorc has 8-9 useful abilities, all of which are non spammable, except the shield. Bear in mind having a non-spammable means filling in your cooldowns with another ability - in this case - another non-spammable, and another.. Is there any wonder sorcs struggle for bar-space?
Also worth mentioning that every non-spammable is expensive. Probably with the idea that they won't be used that often. But when you're stuck using expensive non-spammable after expensive non-spammable, is there any wonder sorcs have sustain issues?
As a side, there are no defensive sorc abilities that can be block-cast. except ward - which synergises extremely badly with blocking.. ie. block doesn't reduce damage done to the ward - but the block still costs you resources even if the ward took the whole full damage.
*Edit for some brief passives comments
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
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Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭This summary paints a really sad picture of the class. Unfortunately, I have to agree with most points.
The only part where I really beg to differ is Dark Conversion. I use Dark Deal for my stamina management, it's a great tool for that. But you are right, the extra 0.2 seconds at the end make it really clunky in heavy combat (with a lot of animations and a little lag).
no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored5 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Next do our passives if you want a laugh.
Let's compare them each to nightblade and make a drinking game out of it. Every class passive thats worse than what nightblade gets, take a shot.
Assuming we don't die of blood alcohol poisoning first... I'm not sure my liver can keep up with that.8 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bolt Escape.
...Only goes in the direction you're facing which can be bad when rooted (but being able to use it when rooted is one of its strengths).
Just wanted to point-out that you can Streak in any direction during a root. Take your fingers off the movement keys, and ONLY re-orientate your camera before streaking, and you will travel in that direction despite being rooted.
PS. This works for all directional/targeted abilities.Edited by TheYKcid on October 12, 2018 7:30PMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden5 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Encase does have a morph that offers Major Vitality. If only Sorcs had a good array of self heals to take advantage of that buff.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nice post, most sorcs probably agree.
So naturally, expect to get a lot of hate from the players, and a lot of ignorance from the developers.1 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol try being a stamina sorcerer, we just ignore half our passives as they have nothing to do with us
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »Lol try being a stamina sorcerer, we just ignore half our passives as they have nothing to do with us
I know. I do have one too.
But to be fair, most of those ignored passives are the pet passives. Lack of active abilities, and the same mobility-ability weaknesses is the Stamsorc problem imho.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Thrasher91604✭✭✭✭✭A very sad reality for sorcs. I’ve mained one for years, and am about to hang it up.Edited by Thrasher91604 on October 14, 2018 9:57AM3 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is really on point class reps need to copy and paste this to save for later and devs need to take notes.Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.2 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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Useless for open-world.
Just want to point out that you can morph the Clannfear into healing on demand, which can be very much useful.
I prefer the Clannfear over the Twilight on my Pet Sorc.
Of course, unless ZOS rethinks Nerfmire all that will be ancient history anyways ...
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Next do our passives if you want a laugh.
Let's compare them each to nightblade and make a drinking game out of it. Every class passive thats worse than what nightblade gets, take a shot.
Assuming we don't die of blood alcohol poisoning first... I'm not sure my liver can keep up with that.
I already did that back in March @Minalan. Here's the post:Rebate - Restore 1452 Magicka if a pet is killed. Very situational and as the base cost of a pet summon is 3495, doesn’t even refund a significant amount of the cost.
Power Stone - Reduce Ultimate cost by 15%. Very strong.
Daedric Protection - Increases health and stam recovery with a Daedric Summoning ability slotted. Nice, but not very powerful (stamSorcs seldom have one of these slotted, and magSorcs mostly run base stamina Regen).
Expert Summoner - increase health by 8% with an active pet. Again, situational, it’s nice on pet builds.
Unholy Knowledge - reduces Magicka and stamina costs of all abilities by 5%. Very good passive considering Alteration gives 6% and is a 5 pc set.
Blood magic - Hitting an enemy with a Dark Magic ability heals for 8% max health. The heal is negligible. Even with 24k health it’s a 1.920 heal before Battle Spirit. It’s not really noticeable.
Persistence - increase the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 20%. Most notably it’s an extra 2 seconds on negate and an extra 6 on mines. Not really awesome.
Exploitation - grants minor prophecy upon activating a dark magic ability. Good for group play as it’s one of the few sources of minor prophecy. However in PvP the worth of extra Spell Crit is not great.
Capacitor - Increase mag recovery by 10%. Good passive.
Energized - increase physical and shock damage by 5%. Good passive.
Implosion - 6% chance when dealing shock or physical damage to disintegrate an opponent while he is under 15% HP, dealing 4372 shock/physical damage. The most hated passive in the game I guess. A random proc execute. It‘s bad design and should be changed to something else that helps the Sorc kit.
Expert Mage - increase weapon and spell damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. While that may sound great Sorcs are so tight on bar space (even if you consider overload) that you don’t get that much out of it.
So we have 5 really good passives. Out of 12.
Master Assassin - Increase your weapon and spell damage by 10% while you are sneaking or invisible. Stuns from sneak have a 100% duration increase.
Executioner - restore 1876 Mag or Stam if an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by an Assassination ability.
Pressure Points - increase weapon and spell crit by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted
Hemorrhage - Increase critical damage done by 10%, dealing critical damage grants you and your group minor savagery.
Refreshing Shadows - increase all recovery by 15%.
Shadow Barrier - casting a shadow ability grants Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, duration increased by 25% for every piece of Heavy Armor.
Dark Vigor - Increase Max health by 3% for each shadow ability slotted
Dark Veil - Increase duration of shadow abilities by 15%
Catalyst - gain 20 ultimate after drinking a potion.
Magicka Flood - gain 8% Max Magicka while a siphoning ability is slotted
Soul Siphoner - Increase healing done by 3% for each siphoning ability slotted
Transfer - casting a siphoning ability generates 2 ultimate. 4 second cooldown.
I count at least 9 good ones. Out of 12.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Next do our passives if you want a laugh.
Let's compare them each to nightblade and make a drinking game out of it. Every class passive thats worse than what nightblade gets, take a shot.
Assuming we don't die of blood alcohol poisoning first... I'm not sure my liver can keep up with that.
I already did that back in March @Minalan. Here's the post:Rebate - Restore 1452 Magicka if a pet is killed. Very situational and as the base cost of a pet summon is 3495, doesn’t even refund a significant amount of the cost.
Power Stone - Reduce Ultimate cost by 15%. Very strong.
Daedric Protection - Increases health and stam recovery with a Daedric Summoning ability slotted. Nice, but not very powerful (stamSorcs seldom have one of these slotted, and magSorcs mostly run base stamina Regen).
Expert Summoner - increase health by 8% with an active pet. Again, situational, it’s nice on pet builds.
Unholy Knowledge - reduces Magicka and stamina costs of all abilities by 5%. Very good passive considering Alteration gives 6% and is a 5 pc set.
Blood magic - Hitting an enemy with a Dark Magic ability heals for 8% max health. The heal is negligible. Even with 24k health it’s a 1.920 heal before Battle Spirit. It’s not really noticeable.
Persistence - increase the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 20%. Most notably it’s an extra 2 seconds on negate and an extra 6 on mines. Not really awesome.
Exploitation - grants minor prophecy upon activating a dark magic ability. Good for group play as it’s one of the few sources of minor prophecy. However in PvP the worth of extra Spell Crit is not great.
Capacitor - Increase mag recovery by 10%. Good passive.
Energized - increase physical and shock damage by 5%. Good passive.
Implosion - 6% chance when dealing shock or physical damage to disintegrate an opponent while he is under 15% HP, dealing 4372 shock/physical damage. The most hated passive in the game I guess. A random proc execute. It‘s bad design and should be changed to something else that helps the Sorc kit.
Expert Mage - increase weapon and spell damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. While that may sound great Sorcs are so tight on bar space (even if you consider overload) that you don’t get that much out of it.
So we have 5 really good passives. Out of 12.
Master Assassin - Increase your weapon and spell damage by 10% while you are sneaking or invisible. Stuns from sneak have a 100% duration increase.
Executioner - restore 1876 Mag or Stam if an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by an Assassination ability.
Pressure Points - increase weapon and spell crit by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted
Hemorrhage - Increase critical damage done by 10%, dealing critical damage grants you and your group minor savagery.
Refreshing Shadows - increase all recovery by 15%.
Shadow Barrier - casting a shadow ability grants Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, duration increased by 25% for every piece of Heavy Armor.
Dark Vigor - Increase Max health by 3% for each shadow ability slotted
Dark Veil - Increase duration of shadow abilities by 15%
Catalyst - gain 20 ultimate after drinking a potion.
Magicka Flood - gain 8% Max Magicka while a siphoning ability is slotted
Soul Siphoner - Increase healing done by 3% for each siphoning ability slotted
Transfer - casting a siphoning ability generates 2 ultimate. 4 second cooldown.
I count at least 9 good ones. Out of 12.
I think you made some of those look better than they actually are..:
Power Stone - Strong, yes - and easy to see the impact - but in comparison to other classes its nothing special. It was proven mathematically to be worse than the NB ulti-recovery passives a while back.
Unholy Knowledge - Sounds great on paper - but the cynic in me suspects that the high-cost of most sorc abilities is there because of this (or the other way around).. I mean, they could simply lower the cost of the abilities and completely replace the passive with something else, and magsorc would have the same sustain.. Good for stamsorc though!
Blood Magic - You forgot to mention how rare targets get hit with dark magic abilities.. Builds I'm looking at for Nerfmire can only fit one dark-magic ability on my bar - and its reliant on a 1 in 3 proc chance (1 in 6 when you consider that it can't proc from the back bar) - and then is dodged 50% of the time.. so maybe once every 12 seconds we'll get the heal?
Energised.. Shock damage is hardly used for PVP. . On my nerfmire build - the only shock damage I have is the ultra-small range, low damage boundless storm.. So kind of a pointless passive. May get some benefit from it if overload proves to be worthwhile.. but then again, they could just up the overload damage by 5% instead (I mean it just took a 50% nerf) and drop the passive.. It's like 'Heres a passive to up your damage - so we're gonna lower your damage to make up for it!' A bit like unholy knowledge in a way.. Good for stamsorc though!
Implosion - I've already said enough on this - just get rid of it to stop the tears - useless passive for PVP magsorc.. (useful for stamsorc - or pve magsorc tho)
Expert Mage. PVP sorcs still need to favour max magica over spell-damage.. so the passive being %-based doesn't add an awful lot.. Now a magica bonus would synergise much, much more!
So only 2 of those, I would say were really good.. 4 are meh..Edited by Biro123 on October 15, 2018 8:37AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You are right about Unholy Knowledge being baked in into the sorc skills' costs, Biro. That passive only makes sense if you use a lot of non-sorc skills, which you don't want, as you want to capitalize on Expert Mage. It's bad design, period.
Right about Power Stone, again. Hm, however, if you're using a high-cost ultimate, it comes very close to the NB passives. I think Negate qualifies. Not that this would help in a 1v1 against a NB...
Energised buffs our execute. Yet it's still the lowest damage execute in the game and frequently fails to kill targets in PvP! xD
We got Implosion to help here, a super low chance at a super low health threshold with a moderately rare elemental requirement. Ehhh... Yeah. Honestly, it's useless in PvP. And if Fury was worth slotting in PvE, this passive would also be superfluous.
Blood Magic - nailed it. Hooray for a heal that gets dodged 75% of the time and requires a health pool - on the class with the lowest health pool in the game, thanks to the boost passive being tied to motherhugging pets. Almost useless. There's also the issue of the hidden cooldown of half a second or so. Meaning, if someone rolls or gap closes through three of your expensive, stationary mines, you get healed for one mine. One. Not three, ONE. That is just great design, isn't it?
*facepalm*2 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Biro123 absolutely spot on with that list. Sums up the problems nicely.
In all its the clunky vibe on most of them that adds up to sorc feeling not fun. Aside from Its competitiveness the issues and choice between bad skill or bad skill just aren't appetizing.
Tagging @Tasear to make sure a rep sees thisEdited by Beardimus on October 15, 2018 12:26PMXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Solutions to the bar space problem (MagSorc):
1) Deadric Mine and Encase should be merged to be one skill. One Morph for the Encase, one morph for the targetable mines. There is no justification for 2 AoE root skills in one skill line.
2) Abolish the double bar requirements for Deadric summoning skills by making them work like the NB´s shade, just with a longer duration.
3) Bound Armor:
The passive effect should grant Minor Protection.
Its active effect should be changed to become a class spammable (bound Weapon). A conjured bow like in Assassin´s Will seems to be the most likely candidate, but a conjured familiar which runs to the target just to explode there seems a viable solution as well if it is stackable.
https://youtu.be/pyeFKMV4tvw
The only question that remains is:
What kind of new Dark Magic Skill would be needed? To fit the skill line´s concept, it must be either some new kind of CC, or blood magic. Maybe a Maelstrom that pulls the enemies into its centre? Or a channeled Drain Magicka spell?
Edited by Thraben on October 20, 2018 8:47AMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Solutions to the bar space problem (MagSorc):
1) Deadric Mine and Encase should be merged to be one skill. One Morph for the Encase, one morph for the targetable mines. There is no justification for 2 AoE root skills in one skill line.
2) Abolish the double bar requirements for Deadric summoning skills by making them work like the NB´s shade, just with a longer duration.
3) Bound Armor:
The passive effect should grant Minor Protection.
Its active effect should be changed to become a class spammable (bound Weapon). A conjured bow like in Assassin´s Will seems to be the most likely candidate, but a conjured familiar which runs to the target just to explode there seems a viable solution as well if it is stackable.https://youtu.be/pyeFKMV4tvw
The only question that rermains is:
What kind of new Dark Magic Skill would be needed? To fit the skill line´s concept, it must be either some new kind of CC, or blood magic. Maybe a Maelstrom that pulls the enemies into its centre? Or a channeled Drain Magicka spell?
Unfortunately, I don't think any of those really help with bar space, except the idea of the bound armour spammable.
Bar space is still short even without pets, and freeing up a new line doesn't help with bar space..
I kind of think that it should be something along the lines of either....
Reducing the slotted abilities needed to put together the sorc' burst. Or
Reducing the slotted abilities needed for sorc' defence.. I think it partially went this way with nerfmire, ie can use only one shield, but unfortunately that extra space instead needs to be taken by boundless..
Or, makng more buffs that have to be actively slotted into passives, or merge them with useful active abilities... eg. Both the max mag from aegis and resists from boundless, NB gets from passives... Doing that is an option.. or merging passive effects with wanted active abilities.. like your bound armour idea, or maybe merge the resist effects of boundless and hardened, move the Maj expedition to streak, or replace the 2nd curse hit with the wrath buff.. idk.. stuff needs to be merged..Edited by Biro123 on October 20, 2018 9:03AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭.. or merging passive effects with wanted active abilities.. like your bound armour idea, or maybe merge the resist effects of boundless and hardened, move the Maj expedition to streak, or replace the 2nd curse hit with the wrath buff.. idk.. stuff needs to be merged..
The merging has following problems:
1) Reducing the amount of skills needed to burst contradicts exactly the Dev´s intentions. That´s why they destroyed the Frags in the first place.
2) Merging skills can only take place within one skill line (for now). Of course, it would make sense when bound armor (or even hardened ward) would apply a major armor buff, freeing Boundless Storm to do more damage or to be a part of an interesting burst mechanic (though it´s hardly a candidate for a class spammable), but in the past 4 years the Devs were very reluctant to do so.
3) Merging passives: I think the passive of Deadric Armor (Max Magicka/ Max Stamina) should replace the Rebate passive. No one needs Rebate anyway. Could be connected with a condition like: "If an enemy is damaged by one of your daedric summoning skills, your magicka and stamina is increased by x for y seconds."
Edited by Thraben on October 20, 2018 10:07AMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.0
