Dungeon and Que system needs to have a MAJOR REWORK.

cremefatale

So as I level up higher and higher, it only can get much more harder and harder for me, yes?
And one of the hardest things I've noticed is to que up for a dungeon of your choice, let me explain why.

So for 5 weeks, I've been trying to do veteran dungeons as I want to get dyes and such from certain dungeons, and for 5 weeks, NO successful dungeons has EVER been completed, why? cause people either leave cause it's too hard, or people leave cause they got irl to do, or they leave cause they just wanna be a-holes, and I'm quite sick of it.

Now you wonder. "Why not join a guild one?"
I've tried this, 6 guilds I've been in, asked them all, and always got a no, and I've left them cause I don't wanna be in useless guilds where they dont help players, simple as that.

The que system needs to have a major rework where you don't need to wait 40-50 minutes for me to enter a dungeon with people.
the penalty for leaving a dungeon shouldn't only limit you to 10 minutes so you can't join another dungeon, please make this PUNISHMENT harder on people leaving so they don't freely leave.

Like I said, I can't progress further into this game, when the game isn't letting me progress further, It's going to die eventually if this continues.

redspecter23

Make a tank and you won't be waiting 40 - 50 minutes. Yes, you may prefer to play a dps, but the queue system heavily rewards well played tanks. You basically skip the line.

I will also mention, though you did go over it, that joining a guild can be a massive time saver. It may take many tries to get one that works out well for you, but they are out there and will help immensely. Just don't expect to go into chat and type "dps looking for a group that has a healer, tank and one other dps for X vet dungeon that I've never done before" You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect instant results that way. Get into a guild. Be patient and wait for your chance to get into some groups and form some relationships with those in the guild. It takes work, but over time, it leads to results.

Waffennacht

I have a feeling people are leaving because it's not supposed to be difficult to do most dungeons.

Obviously you're a dps (or else it would hook you faster)

Going to assume you are still leveling/learning?

Well.... I'm beating around the bush...

Are you sure you're bringing everything you're supposed to in these dungeons? I.e. is your dps high enough?

cremefatale

Waffennacht wrote: »

I have a feeling people are leaving because it's not supposed to be difficult to do most dungeons.

Obviously you're a dps (or else it would hook you faster)

Going to assume you are still leveling/learning?

Well.... I'm beating around the bush...

Are you sure you're bringing everything you're supposed to in these dungeons? I.e. is your dps high enough?

Yeah I'm a DPS, but it won't matter what level, rank, class, skintone, sexual gender, orientation, etc or whatever that you wanna paint me up as, the system needs a rework.

I was just in a veteran dungeon with two people LOWER than I am, and we were doing just fine, going up to the last boss, and what happens? One of them leave, then the healer leaves mysteriously, and then the leader leaves, and disbands us.

cremefatale

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make a tank and you won't be waiting 40 - 50 minutes. Yes, you may prefer to play a dps, but the queue system heavily rewards well played tanks. You basically skip the line.

I will also mention, though you did go over it, that joining a guild can be a massive time saver. It may take many tries to get one that works out well for you, but they are out there and will help immensely. Just don't expect to go into chat and type "dps looking for a group that has a healer, tank and one other dps for X vet dungeon that I've never done before" You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect instant results that way. Get into a guild. Be patient and wait for your chance to get into some groups and form some relationships with those in the guild. It takes work, but over time, it leads to results.

I'm not going to make a tank just because you don't believe the system needs a rework.
A for effort on that post though.

redspecter23

cremefatale wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I have a feeling people are leaving because it's not supposed to be difficult to do most dungeons.

Obviously you're a dps (or else it would hook you faster)

Going to assume you are still leveling/learning?

Well.... I'm beating around the bush...

Are you sure you're bringing everything you're supposed to in these dungeons? I.e. is your dps high enough?

Yeah I'm a DPS, but it won't matter what level, rank, class, skintone, sexual gender, orientation, etc or whatever that you wanna paint me up as, the system needs a rework.

I was just in a veteran dungeon with two people LOWER than I am, and we were doing just fine, going up to the last boss, and what happens? One of them leave, then the healer leaves mysteriously, and then the leader leaves, and disbands us.

That's a bad situation, but if it's a regular occurrence for you, then something else is going on. Not saying you're at fault, but that just plain doesn't happen all that often to a majority of players.

cremefatale

redspecter23 wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I have a feeling people are leaving because it's not supposed to be difficult to do most dungeons.

Obviously you're a dps (or else it would hook you faster)

Going to assume you are still leveling/learning?

Well.... I'm beating around the bush...

Are you sure you're bringing everything you're supposed to in these dungeons? I.e. is your dps high enough?

Yeah I'm a DPS, but it won't matter what level, rank, class, skintone, sexual gender, orientation, etc or whatever that you wanna paint me up as, the system needs a rework.

I was just in a veteran dungeon with two people LOWER than I am, and we were doing just fine, going up to the last boss, and what happens? One of them leave, then the healer leaves mysteriously, and then the leader leaves, and disbands us.

That's a bad situation, but if it's a regular occurrence for you, then something else is going on. Not saying you're at fault, but that just plain doesn't happen all that often to a majority of players.

Well, that's where your wrong, I've talked to a bunch of people on my friend list, and they think the dungeon and que system needs a rework, it's not punishing enough for people leaving abruptly, and it takes WAY too long to get into a dungeon. (when it really shouldn't since DPS is the majority.)

redspecter23

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make a tank and you won't be waiting 40 - 50 minutes. Yes, you may prefer to play a dps, but the queue system heavily rewards well played tanks. You basically skip the line.

I will also mention, though you did go over it, that joining a guild can be a massive time saver. It may take many tries to get one that works out well for you, but they are out there and will help immensely. Just don't expect to go into chat and type "dps looking for a group that has a healer, tank and one other dps for X vet dungeon that I've never done before" You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect instant results that way. Get into a guild. Be patient and wait for your chance to get into some groups and form some relationships with those in the guild. It takes work, but over time, it leads to results.

I'm not going to make a tank just because you don't believe the system needs a rework.
A for effort on that post though.

Part of the issue is that harder vet dungeons are not balanced for a pug group by design. They balance them for premades, likely with voice chat, well geared out and well experienced. A random assortment of 4 players can never be expected to perform as well in this situation. They can make changes to the queue system, but the solution essentially already exists. Premades. If there is an issue overall, I'd say it lies more with the difficulty level of the vet content compared to the expectations of an average pug group that will queue for that content.

cremefatale

redspecter23 wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make a tank and you won't be waiting 40 - 50 minutes. Yes, you may prefer to play a dps, but the queue system heavily rewards well played tanks. You basically skip the line.

I will also mention, though you did go over it, that joining a guild can be a massive time saver. It may take many tries to get one that works out well for you, but they are out there and will help immensely. Just don't expect to go into chat and type "dps looking for a group that has a healer, tank and one other dps for X vet dungeon that I've never done before" You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect instant results that way. Get into a guild. Be patient and wait for your chance to get into some groups and form some relationships with those in the guild. It takes work, but over time, it leads to results.

I'm not going to make a tank just because you don't believe the system needs a rework.
A for effort on that post though.

Part of the issue is that harder vet dungeons are not balanced for a pug group by design. They balance them for premades, likely with voice chat, well geared out and well experienced. A random assortment of 4 players can never be expected to perform as well in this situation. They can make changes to the queue system, but the solution essentially already exists. Premades. If there is an issue overall, I'd say it lies more with the difficulty level of the vet content compared to the expectations of an average pug group that will queue for that content.

Well good to know that Zenimax only cares for "well experienced" premades then, again, the system needs rework, cause I can't progress, and other people can't progress, but hey, here's another 50 minute long waiting for another dungeon.

Agenericname

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I have a feeling people are leaving because it's not supposed to be difficult to do most dungeons.

Obviously you're a dps (or else it would hook you faster)

Going to assume you are still leveling/learning?

Well.... I'm beating around the bush...

Are you sure you're bringing everything you're supposed to in these dungeons? I.e. is your dps high enough?

Yeah I'm a DPS, but it won't matter what level, rank, class, skintone, sexual gender, orientation, etc or whatever that you wanna paint me up as, the system needs a rework.

I was just in a veteran dungeon with two people LOWER than I am, and we were doing just fine, going up to the last boss, and what happens? One of them leave, then the healer leaves mysteriously, and then the leader leaves, and disbands us.

That's a bad situation, but if it's a regular occurrence for you, then something else is going on. Not saying you're at fault, but that just plain doesn't happen all that often to a majority of players.

Well, that's where your wrong, I've talked to a bunch of people on my friend list, and they think the dungeon and que system needs a rework, it's not punishing enough for people leaving abruptly, and it takes WAY too long to get into a dungeon. (when it really shouldn't since DPS is the majority.)

DDs being the majority IS why your queues are so long. There's a demand for support roles while DDs are all over. Reworking the RDF won't fix that.

It will also punish people who find themselves in more toxic groups where members can't be vote kicked.

If you're finding this occurs around one or handful of dungeons it's more indicative of an issue or issues with those dungeons and not the RDF.

redspecter23

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make a tank and you won't be waiting 40 - 50 minutes. Yes, you may prefer to play a dps, but the queue system heavily rewards well played tanks. You basically skip the line.

I will also mention, though you did go over it, that joining a guild can be a massive time saver. It may take many tries to get one that works out well for you, but they are out there and will help immensely. Just don't expect to go into chat and type "dps looking for a group that has a healer, tank and one other dps for X vet dungeon that I've never done before" You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect instant results that way. Get into a guild. Be patient and wait for your chance to get into some groups and form some relationships with those in the guild. It takes work, but over time, it leads to results.

I'm not going to make a tank just because you don't believe the system needs a rework.
A for effort on that post though.

Part of the issue is that harder vet dungeons are not balanced for a pug group by design. They balance them for premades, likely with voice chat, well geared out and well experienced. A random assortment of 4 players can never be expected to perform as well in this situation. They can make changes to the queue system, but the solution essentially already exists. Premades. If there is an issue overall, I'd say it lies more with the difficulty level of the vet content compared to the expectations of an average pug group that will queue for that content.

Well good to know that Zenimax only cares for "well experienced" premades then, again, the system needs rework, cause I can't progress, and other people can't progress, but hey, here's another 50 minute long waiting for another dungeon.

They can change the queue system all they want. You will still end up with players that can't finish the content. The same players that aren't finishing it now, will still be not completing it later. The content is just as hard. The players are just as capable (or incapable). The same players that left your group at the end will still do that, even if it's a 1 hour timeout, a 2 week timeout or whatever. They had some reason for leaving and no reasonable penalty wouldn't have changed that.

cremefatale

redspecter23 wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make a tank and you won't be waiting 40 - 50 minutes. Yes, you may prefer to play a dps, but the queue system heavily rewards well played tanks. You basically skip the line.

I will also mention, though you did go over it, that joining a guild can be a massive time saver. It may take many tries to get one that works out well for you, but they are out there and will help immensely. Just don't expect to go into chat and type "dps looking for a group that has a healer, tank and one other dps for X vet dungeon that I've never done before" You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect instant results that way. Get into a guild. Be patient and wait for your chance to get into some groups and form some relationships with those in the guild. It takes work, but over time, it leads to results.

I'm not going to make a tank just because you don't believe the system needs a rework.
A for effort on that post though.

Part of the issue is that harder vet dungeons are not balanced for a pug group by design. They balance them for premades, likely with voice chat, well geared out and well experienced. A random assortment of 4 players can never be expected to perform as well in this situation. They can make changes to the queue system, but the solution essentially already exists. Premades. If there is an issue overall, I'd say it lies more with the difficulty level of the vet content compared to the expectations of an average pug group that will queue for that content.

Well good to know that Zenimax only cares for "well experienced" premades then, again, the system needs rework, cause I can't progress, and other people can't progress, but hey, here's another 50 minute long waiting for another dungeon.

They can change the queue system all they want. You will still end up with players that can't finish the content. The same players that aren't finishing it now, will still be not completing it later. The content is just as hard. The players are just as capable (or incapable). The same players that left your group at the end will still do that, even if it's a 1 hour timeout, a 2 week timeout or whatever. They had some reason for leaving and no reasonable penalty wouldn't have changed that.

You seem to know the results even if the idea hasn't been implemented yet, nice future sight.

redspecter23

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make a tank and you won't be waiting 40 - 50 minutes. Yes, you may prefer to play a dps, but the queue system heavily rewards well played tanks. You basically skip the line.

I will also mention, though you did go over it, that joining a guild can be a massive time saver. It may take many tries to get one that works out well for you, but they are out there and will help immensely. Just don't expect to go into chat and type "dps looking for a group that has a healer, tank and one other dps for X vet dungeon that I've never done before" You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect instant results that way. Get into a guild. Be patient and wait for your chance to get into some groups and form some relationships with those in the guild. It takes work, but over time, it leads to results.

I'm not going to make a tank just because you don't believe the system needs a rework.
A for effort on that post though.

Part of the issue is that harder vet dungeons are not balanced for a pug group by design. They balance them for premades, likely with voice chat, well geared out and well experienced. A random assortment of 4 players can never be expected to perform as well in this situation. They can make changes to the queue system, but the solution essentially already exists. Premades. If there is an issue overall, I'd say it lies more with the difficulty level of the vet content compared to the expectations of an average pug group that will queue for that content.

Well good to know that Zenimax only cares for "well experienced" premades then, again, the system needs rework, cause I can't progress, and other people can't progress, but hey, here's another 50 minute long waiting for another dungeon.

They can change the queue system all they want. You will still end up with players that can't finish the content. The same players that aren't finishing it now, will still be not completing it later. The content is just as hard. The players are just as capable (or incapable). The same players that left your group at the end will still do that, even if it's a 1 hour timeout, a 2 week timeout or whatever. They had some reason for leaving and no reasonable penalty wouldn't have changed that.

You seem to know the results even if the idea hasn't been implemented yet, nice future sight.

I may be wrong. That's possible. What I do know is that random queue is currently your worst method of putting together a successful group.

Friends list, guildies, zone, discord chats, 2 or 3 man partial premade. All these methods are currently much better for forming groups for dungeons, especially if you're a dps. Your queue will be the longest and you've identified why. There are more dps that want the 2 spots available in each group. I suppose the question is, what would you do with the queue system to get faster groups, more effective groups and groups that don't kick/leave. You suggest a 10 minute penalty and a longer one for those that leave voluntarily, but punishing those that voluntarily leave will hurt players that are stuck in a bad group as much or more than it hurts someone that leaves a perfectly good group (I still don't believe that happens that often for no reason at all)

Waffennacht

cremefatale wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I have a feeling people are leaving because it's not supposed to be difficult to do most dungeons.

Obviously you're a dps (or else it would hook you faster)

Going to assume you are still leveling/learning?

Well.... I'm beating around the bush...

Are you sure you're bringing everything you're supposed to in these dungeons? I.e. is your dps high enough?

Yeah I'm a DPS, but it won't matter what level, rank, class, skintone, sexual gender, orientation, etc or whatever that you wanna paint me up as, the system needs a rework.

I was just in a veteran dungeon with two people LOWER than I am, and we were doing just fine, going up to the last boss, and what happens? One of them leave, then the healer leaves mysteriously, and then the leader leaves, and disbands us.

The first dps leaves....

I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm gonna guess it's because they do not believe they can complete the dungeon with you.

You say it happens to a lot of players?

Well I just joined a PuG where the combines DPS was lower than 15k.

So yeah it does happen a lot, but it's not ZoS' fault (well kinda, they don't teach a whole lot about making good builds)

A really really simple way to put it is:

An experienced dps player can solo almost every single non dlc dungeon on vet mode.

If you're dps and doing a non-dlc dungeon.... Well then... I think we need to work on ourselves before we blame the game.

(I do agree the que could be faster but that has nothing to do with leaving)

Players really only leave when they think it's not possible to finish or it'll take too long. And any dungeon shouldn't take that long - it shouldn't if people know what's up

Jameliel

As are many features in this game, dungeon finder is garbage. Dungeon mechanics are also garbage. Many players have garbage fanboi attitudes and have never played a decent mmo. You won't find much consolation in this game. If you're lucky you might meet a few friendly and helpful players every now and then.

SakuraRush

It's interesting when these threads get brought up but without suggestions on how to fix the group finder.

Here's the reality though, group finder is not the problem. Yes it's broken but not in any way that applies to your situation.

The core problem is that group finder is reliant on the trinity. So it has to find a healer, a tank, and two DPS. This in itself isn't really the problem. The problem is that the game outside of dungeons and trials is not fun for a tank.

As a DPS you can jump from content to content without changing a thing. From a dungeon, to a trial, to overland questing, to world boss killing. All without changing a skill, gear, or single CP.

A healer can do this as well but may need to swap out a set and two or three skills.

As a tank we have to respec attributes since health doesn't help us kill anything. We have to respec skills since our tanking kit is not suitable for killing things. Probably every piece of gear will be swapped. Might need to change the Mundus.

Or we can ignore that and accept all fights taking a half an hour.

So unless your dungeon finder changes somehow change the core gameplay for a tank it won't help.

Pink_Violinz

Judging by your start date on the forums you're still relatively new. I'm willing to bet most of these issues are stemming from either
A. Unlucky groups
B. You as a dps

What numbers are you hitting? What is your class/race? Are you dying, or are you following mechanics? Are you below cp160 or above?

DPS have a very long queue because so many queue as dps. Changing how the system works would affect nothing, because it does not affect how many support players are available. Healers and tanks have near instant queue because they are in such high demand, while dps are a dime a dozen. If you want a faster queue, you have to go support. Or find a more active/helpful guild.

If people are leaving mid dungeon they either had to leave because of other obligations or do not believe the group is capable of completing. Any role can be the guilty party in this, but if it keeps happening to groups you are in it might have something to do with you. Adding to the penalty wouldn't change anything. If a group is bad, people aren't going to stick around either way. I run pugs regularly as a healer, and it's very obvious from early on whether or not the group is capable of completing or not. I do agree that if someone leaves it shouldn't punish the other players, but that's a separate discussion.

I want to help, but you haven't given much information to go off of. It looks like you run multiple classes which I wouldn't recommend for someone still somewhat new. Find a class you enjoy and hone in on it, instead of spreading yourself so thin. Buy a training dummy or borrow someone else's and check what dps you're pulling. Check a dungeon's mechanics or ask in group before running in.For a faster queue, there is no other choice but to go support. Healing is very easy and the beginner sets are craftable. If you're PS4 NA, I can help with specifics and getting a guild. My PSN is the same as here.

Tsar_Gekkou

People wouldn't leave dungeons so much if most players could beat them. I've had to drag so many bads through normal dlc dungeons while practically solo dpsing and tanking everything because there's so many CP400+ people who just spam bow light attacks and uppercut, and so many "tanks" who are either wearing medium armor or non-CP heavy armor. I think the leaving penalty should be lower so people aren't punished for getting thrown into a group of roleplayers who can barely beat add pulls, much less the dungeon.

Jeremy

cremefatale wrote: »

So as I level up higher and higher, it only can get much more harder and harder for me, yes?
And one of the hardest things I've noticed is to que up for a dungeon of your choice, let me explain why.

So for 5 weeks, I've been trying to do veteran dungeons as I want to get dyes and such from certain dungeons, and for 5 weeks, NO successful dungeons has EVER been completed, why? cause people either leave cause it's too hard, or people leave cause they got irl to do, or they leave cause they just wanna be a-holes, and I'm quite sick of it.

Now you wonder. "Why not join a guild one?"
I've tried this, 6 guilds I've been in, asked them all, and always got a no, and I've left them cause I don't wanna be in useless guilds where they dont help players, simple as that.

The que system needs to have a major rework where you don't need to wait 40-50 minutes for me to enter a dungeon with people.
the penalty for leaving a dungeon shouldn't only limit you to 10 minutes so you can't join another dungeon, please make this PUNISHMENT harder on people leaving so they don't freely leave.

Like I said, I can't progress further into this game, when the game isn't letting me progress further, It's going to die eventually if this continues.

It would help if you said which dungeons in particular this was happening in. Some dungeons are fairly easy for pug groups. Others, not so much.

Jeremy

SakuraRush wrote: »

It's interesting when these threads get brought up but without suggestions on how to fix the group finder.

Here's the reality though, group finder is not the problem. Yes it's broken but not in any way that applies to your situation.

The core problem is that group finder is reliant on the trinity. So it has to find a healer, a tank, and two DPS. This in itself isn't really the problem. The problem is that the game outside of dungeons and trials is not fun for a tank.

As a DPS you can jump from content to content without changing a thing. From a dungeon, to a trial, to overland questing, to world boss killing. All without changing a skill, gear, or single CP.

A healer can do this as well but may need to swap out a set and two or three skills.

As a tank we have to respec attributes since health doesn't help us kill anything. We have to respec skills since our tanking kit is not suitable for killing things. Probably every piece of gear will be swapped. Might need to change the Mundus.

Or we can ignore that and accept all fights taking a half an hour.

So unless your dungeon finder changes somehow change the core gameplay for a tank it won't help.

I doubt this is the issue.

The content outside of dungeons and trials is so easy tanks should be fine soloing the vast majority of encounters. I might even argue tanks are some of the best soloers, especially if they have some self healing they can use or throw on their bar. So I would differ and say the reason tanks are rarely played is people just like to do lots of damage. Defensive builds just aren't as popular as offensive ones. And that's always been the case, since MMO's were a thing.

Jeremy

Jameliel wrote: »

As are many features in this game, dungeon finder is garbage. Dungeon mechanics are also garbage. Many players have garbage fanboi attitudes and have never played a decent mmo. You won't find much consolation in this game. If you're lucky you might meet a few friendly and helpful players every now and then.

I keep reading these kinds of comments from you - but I've yet to see you answer me (I could have missed it) and tell me which MMORPG out there is so much better?

SirLeeMinion

Jeremy wrote: »

SakuraRush wrote: »

The core problem is that group finder is reliant on the trinity. So it has to find a healer, a tank, and two DPS. This in itself isn't really the problem. The problem is that the game outside of dungeons and trials is not fun for a tank.

As a DPS you can jump from content to content without changing a thing. From a dungeon, to a trial, to overland questing, to world boss killing. All without changing a skill, gear, or single CP.

I doubt this is the issue.

The content outside of dungeons and trials is so easy tanks should be fine soloing the vast majority of encounters. I might even argue tanks are some of the best soloers....

Having leveled a couple of tanks, I'm going to have to go with Sakura on this one. Sure, you can solo anything open world as a tank, it just takes fooor-ever. I've literally started on a World boss figuring someone would come along. Twenty minutes later, nobody did. It's not that you can't solo content, it's that you die of old age while doing it. As Sakura said, "not fun." I level tanks using a combination of Dolmens (use others DPS) and / or having them go WW, which gives semi-decent DPS even as a tank with just a full gear swap.

So far as fixing the dungeon queue, I'd love a "non-standard group" option, at least for normals. It would take the next 4 people in line (no matter what their spec) and throw them in the dungeon - no quitting penalty. If you got 4 tanks, you could all quit and re-queue. If you got 4 DPS, you could burn through it and be done.

StormChaser3000

5 weeks and no completed vet dungeons? This is pretty much impossible with pugs unless you are talking about DLC dungeons.

I haven't tried vet DLCs and not going till I reach max cp. Even normal ones are pure pain. But if to talk about non dlc ones, I've done them all many times as a 450cp dps (last time I checked I was pulling about 22k) and out of ~150 runs the group was disbanded only once.
A good example of pug happened today. I joined a pug for CoA2 with 250-350 cp people in my group and we did it without issues on hard mode.

With all my positive runs I keep wondering how people manage to find so many bad groups.

richo262

There should be two profiles in each toon. One for tanking, one for DPS.

That way, tanks don't need to swap out all their skills, points, gear when they want to do world quests AND, DPS players might be able to make a pass-able tank for random normal and some vet dungeons.

When ever I make a new toon, I always build him as a tank so I can get all the dungeons skills, then when all dungeons are complete I reset the skills and build him how I want. If I had a way of doing both at the same time, that'd be great.

Better yet, have an armory system, and a squire assistant. If you can collect sets account wide, and have an assistant you can call in, swapping out would be a breeze, and there are plenty of skill points out there so you won't need to change all your skills, just get more of them. That would only leave attribute points to change which isn't the end of the world.

Then you can have in the dungeon finder, a preference. So preference 1, DPS. (DPS loadout) preference 2, Tank (Tank loadout). That would speed up the dungeon finder considerably. Preference system would probably have to be locked until 400cp to prevent noobs fake tanking.