Stamdens needs to be nerfed down in PvP

susmitds

Taking an objective look at this class, it is apparent to anyone how ridiculously OP this class is. While, there are/were other OP classes in ESO's history, there has never been a single class that can virtually do everything without any given weakness.
They have everything

• NB levels of Sustain
• NB levels of Burst
• AoE Burst unmatched even considered the Proxi-Det days of the past
• Magplar levels of Self-heals
• DK-like Tankiness

Pretty much, every high MMR BG has few of them just spamming Sub. Assault and Steel Tornado bursting down everything in sight. In case, stamblades or stamplars, you can simply burst them down in retaliation faster than they can reset, stamdens will just reset fights at will. Also, out-sustaining them ain't really an option either, due to their great sustain paired with Heavy Armor and is getting a buff next patch.

Kadoin

Uh oh, calling all stam den streamers! Assemble, and...attack!

SaxonCrusader

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

getemshauna

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

As long as I never agree with nerfs, classes should have their strong and weak points. Stamden doesn't have weak points.

susmitds

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

No nerfs are needed. Nerfs are always needed when some subclass can hit every tick in the book. Making everything OP doesn't balance a game.
I love how people QQ getting other classes nerfed but when it's their main's turn, they ask for other classes to be buffed.

_Ahala_

Can zos really nerf Stamden without destroying Magden... They are probably planning on doing something rediculous like turning Sub Assault AND Deep Fissure into dots or something

SaxonCrusader

susmitds wrote: »

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

No nerfs are needed. Nerfs are always needed when some subclass can hit every tick in the book. Making everything OP doesn't balance a game.
I love how people QQ getting other classes nerfed but when it's their main's turn, they ask for other classes to be buffed.

My main's a Nightblade. And buffing all the other classes doesn't necessarily mean having to make them OP too, not that that statement makes sense to begin with as doing that means that none of them become OP by the end of it.

susmitds

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

No nerfs are needed. Nerfs are always needed when some subclass can hit every tick in the book. Making everything OP doesn't balance a game.
I love how people QQ getting other classes nerfed but when it's their main's turn, they ask for other classes to be buffed.

My main's a Nightblade. And buffing all the other classes doesn't necessarily mean having to make them OP too, not that that statement makes sense to begin with as doing that means that none of them become OP by the end of it.

Difference is NBs, in spite of the fact that they are annoying af, have weaknesses. Stamdens have none.

susmitds

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Can zos really nerf Stamden without destroying Magden... They are probably planning on doing something rediculous like turning Sub Assault AND Deep Fissure into dots or something

Simple, nerf the Stam morphs.

AlexTheLion

getemshauna wrote: »

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

As long as I never agree with nerfs, classes should have their strong and weak points. Stamden doesn't have weak points.

Stamden weak point is stamina nightblades so I think we now know what this thread is

Strider__Roshin

susmitds wrote: »

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

No nerfs are needed. Nerfs are always needed when some subclass can hit every tick in the book. Making everything OP doesn't balance a game.
I love how people QQ getting other classes nerfed but when it's their main's turn, they ask for other classes to be buffed.

My main's a Nightblade. And buffing all the other classes doesn't necessarily mean having to make them OP too, not that that statement makes sense to begin with as doing that means that none of them become OP by the end of it.

Difference is NBs, in spite of the fact that they are annoying af, have weaknesses. Stamdens have none.

Sure they do!...





Yeah I got nothing.

Defilted

I get killed by the Stamden meta PVP. They DO NOT need a nerf. I have got better at avoiding their Perma/Shalk/spin to win attack and my deaths to them are becoming less frequent.

Change your tactics and you will see a big improvement in dealing with these players. A lot of them are not running Immovable pots and they are weak to fear and other CC's.

No more hard nerfs for classes. Lets start making improvements to other classes if they need it and make each classes Magika and stam kit more complete.

susmitds

AlexTheLion wrote: »

getemshauna wrote: »

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

As long as I never agree with nerfs, classes should have their strong and weak points. Stamden doesn't have weak points.

Stamden weak point is stamina nightblades so I think we now know what this thread is

Actually, it is the opposite. Ranged NBs are shut down by 1 stamden skills, melee NBs can't cloak due to the abundance of AoE used by stamdens.

A similarly geared and skilled stamblade would have very similar burst as the stamden, but the stamden would have better defense and heals, which results in more time spent offensively, which eventually would force the stamblade to burn out of resources.

MooseKnuckles88

Yet another pvp player requesting a nerf, I'm seeing a trend here. So, Pvp is to nerf as pve is to buff? Hmmm.

usmguy1234

susmitds wrote: »

Taking an objective look at this class, it is apparent to anyone how ridiculously OP this class is. While, there are/were other OP classes in ESO's history, there has never been a single class that can virtually do everything without any given weakness.
They have everything

• NB levels of Sustain
• NB levels of Burst
• AoE Burst unmatched even considered the Proxi-Det days of the past
• Magplar levels of Self-heals
• DK-like Tankiness

Pretty much, every high MMR BG has few of them just spamming Sub. Assault and Steel Tornado bursting down everything in sight. In case, stamblades or stamplars, you can simply burst them down in retaliation faster than they can reset, stamdens will just reset fights at will. Also, out-sustaining them ain't really an option either, due to their great sustain paired with Heavy Armor and is getting a buff next patch.

The biggest problem imo is that skalks follow the player. It's fairly difficult to actually counter them if the stamden player is good at keeping you in front of them. Also, the distance on that ability is fairly deceptive and deals way to much damage imo.

Donny_Vito

ZOS just wants to make sure everyone has bought the Warden class from the Crown Store. What better way to do it?

susmitds

Defilted wrote: »

I get killed by the Stamden meta PVP. They DO NOT need a nerf. I have got better at avoiding their Perma/Shalk/spin to win attack and my deaths to them are becoming less frequent.

Change your tactics and you will see a big improvement in dealing with these players. A lot of them are not running Immovable pots and they are weak to fear and other CC's.

No more hard nerfs for classes. Lets start making improvements to other classes if they need it and make each classes Magika and stam kit more complete.

It's not about the fact of tactics. It is the fact that stamdens have no weaknesses. Also the AoE is unavoidable, when you are playing a melee class. You move in to attack, you CC them and start your burst, only to be interrupted by a pre-placed Sub assault biting a chunk of your HP. They CC-break and follow up with their own CC. They instaheal up and start their own burst. You CC break but it is already too late as their Steel Tornado has already started but you don't have kind of self-healing to heal through it.

magictucktuck

The ones that's hit really hard are squishy. Before I left for work I was in a random bg against a premade with two stamdens that hit really hard and they had two healers with them so they seemed unkillabe until you didn't run into them like a mindless zombie and you focus one at a time. Anything can seem op if you're not countering correctly. That's the point of being good reducing weaknesses. And I'm a Templar by the way, Magicka. I'm surprised people haven't been complaining about us. I feel pretty strong right now I'm tanky with good heals and can survive groups of pugs and still blow people up 1v1

Nevasca

Eh, I agree with everything except the sustain part. Their sustain is meh. They are not as tanky as DK, they are MORE tanky than DK, have more utility through vines, tree ult and Permabrokenfrost. Oh, and their burst is stronger than NB too, and it's AoE.

susmitds

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Eh, I agree with everything except the sustain part. Their sustain is meh. They are not as tanky as DK, they are MORE tanky than DK, have more utility through vines, tree ult and Permabrokenfrost. Oh, and their burst is stronger than NB too, and it's AoE.

Their sustain skill on PTS is beating NB sustain due to the buff to Netch.

Thannazzar

99% of Nerf threads are basically:

'I got owned in PVP by a class I don't play and I want my opponents to suffer rather than learning to counter...'

usmguy1234

magictucktuck wrote: »

The ones that's hit really hard are squishy. Before I left for work I was in a random bg against a premade with two stamdens that hit really hard and they had two healers with them so they seemed unkillabe until you didn't run into them like a mindless zombie and you focus one at a time. Anything can seem op if you're not countering correctly. That's the point of being good reducing weaknesses. And I'm a Templar by the way, Magicka. I'm surprised people haven't been complaining about us. I feel pretty strong right now I'm tanky with good heals and can survive groups of pugs and still blow people up 1v1

Try doing that with any class that doesn't have templar level heals or purge and you're going to have a bad time.

Solariken

Yeah Stamwarden is an abomination but no way they'll nerf their Crown store baby. Pay2Win is here to stay in ESO.

susmitds

Thannazzar wrote: »

99% of Nerf threads are basically:

'I got owned in PVP by a class I don't play and I want my opponents to suffer rather than learning to counter...'

Every class has counter strategy. Why don't you enlighten us with one?

TheKingofSass

Thannazzar wrote: »

99% of Nerf threads are basically:

'I got owned in PVP by a class I don't play and I want my opponents to suffer rather than learning to counter...'

Couldn't have said it better myself. These nerf threads are more annoyingly then my awful intolerance for milk.

Defilted

Shalks though can be avoided in a small fight as you can track the players and make a good dodge roll when it is going to shoot out. it is easy to see the small green circle around the player and count to three.

It gets difficult in a large 10 V 10 or better fight to track shalks and avoid them, however this is true for all abilities as the information overload is real when it comes to tracking all these abilities and players positions. I find when not playing in a group that it is easier to disengage from these types of fights and pick a better engagement in a few seconds or min depending on the situation.

PC can somewhat avoid this overload with addons that will let you know what is around you , but the more pure play of console makes you track them yourself. Not arguing one is better , just speaking about the differences.

This information does not IMO make a nerf required for Stamdens.

Players must learn each class (best way is to play them which is what I did) and use that information to know when to engage and break engagement in open world or BG's PVP.

Just becasue you cannot make a good engagement decision does not mean a class needs a nerf.

casparian

Rule 1 of Nerf Posts: Don't call for nerfs at the end of a PTS cycle. You don't know how stamwarden is going to feel after the numerous changes affecting them go live. OP doesn't mention any of the several nerfs stamwarden is getting next patch, including the widespread availability of 25% protection against DBOS and Shalks.

I'm not trying to say stamwarden isn't OP on live, but I do know that my own beloved classes were perceived as OP in the past because of issues external to the classes themselves, and ZOS responded by nerfing class abilities, which we now see with the benefit of hindsight was usually the wrong approach.

Solariken wrote: »

Yeah Stamwarden is an abomination but no way they'll nerf their Crown store baby. Pay2Win is here to stay in ESO.

If that had anything to do with it then magwarden would be a hell of a lot better.

Tan9oSuccka

Hmm. Your average Stam Warden player is nothing to worry about.

Good players will jack you up if your a squishy.

Solariken

casparian wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Yeah Stamwarden is an abomination but no way they'll nerf their Crown store baby. Pay2Win is here to stay in ESO.

If that had anything to do with it then magwarden would be a hell of a lot better.

Umm magwarden is also insane it's just not as braindead easy as Stamwarden.

Defilted

susmitds wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

I get killed by the Stamden meta PVP. They DO NOT need a nerf. I have got better at avoiding their Perma/Shalk/spin to win attack and my deaths to them are becoming less frequent.

Change your tactics and you will see a big improvement in dealing with these players. A lot of them are not running Immovable pots and they are weak to fear and other CC's.

No more hard nerfs for classes. Lets start making improvements to other classes if they need it and make each classes Magika and stam kit more complete.

It's not about the fact of tactics. It is the fact that stamdens have no weaknesses. Also the AoE is unavoidable, when you are playing a melee class. You move in to attack, you CC them and start your burst, only to be interrupted by a pre-placed Sub assault biting a chunk of your HP. They CC-break and follow up with their own CC. They instaheal up and start their own burst. You CC break but it is already too late as their Steel Tornado has already started but you don't have kind of self-healing to heal through it.

I engage Stamdens all the time. I disagree that is is not about battle tactics. By changing how I engage Stamdens I have been way more successful against them. Yes they do have great AOE in this current meta, but you must adapt what you are doing for each opponent you face. Stamdens may be harder to kill at this time, but they are not invincible and can be killed.

You have to use their greatest strength that they are relying on against them. You have to make them spend resources trying to get you in range of their AOE, then use that resource depletion as your way in to beat them. Is this a easy thing to master? Hell no. Do I still get beat by Stamdens? Yes, but as I said I am getting better and winning these fights more and more.

There is no evidence based on my experience that requires Stamdens to be nerfed. Are there some classes that need a more complete kit? Yes and this is what we should be focusing on.

ruikkarikun

SaxonCrusader wrote: »

NO. MORE. NERF. THREADS. THEY. ARE. GETTING. BORING.

Can't people suggest ideas on how to buff up the other classes in order to make them compete better and level out the playing field more instead of nerfing a specific class and then ending back up at square one again an update later?

Too late.