4% snare reduction is nowhere near enough

lucky_dutch

From the LA passives.

In light of the shield changes Light Armor need much better damage evasion to make up for the lost damage resistance.

ZOS, you were onto the right idea with snare resistance (kiting could be an answer) but failed to take into account the fact that stam have the strongest snare on a cheap cast (stampede).

That snare resistance needs to be more like 20% if you want anyone to actually play LA in PvP.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

The way snare reduction works is subtractive. Meaning that the up to 28% reduction is actually calculated like this- 60%-28%= 32% snare. If you are a warden, this stacks with the 15% passive, icy aura, bringing the actual snare down to 17%. Realistically, you will only have 5 light on, so it will be 60%, from stampede, down to 40% and then down to 25% if you are a warden.

lucky_dutch

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The way snare reduction works is subtractive. Meaning that the up to 28% reduction is actually calculated like this- 60%-28%= 32% snare. If you are a warden, this stacks with the 15% passive, icy aura, bringing the actual snare down to 17%. Realistically, you will only have 5 light on, so it will be 60%, from stampede, down to 40% and then down to 25% if you are a warden.

Thanks for the detail although I did know that. Bare in mind that to actually kite someone you need to maintain a sustainable speed advantage over them.

40% snare vs say crippling’s 40% is no difference especially when you can add stuns in every few seconds and swift boosts or stamsorcs various mobility options.

I still don’t see kiting as a practical possibility and with shields being so weak now LA is just dead outside ganking.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The way snare reduction works is subtractive. Meaning that the up to 28% reduction is actually calculated like this- 60%-28%= 32% snare. If you are a warden, this stacks with the 15% passive, icy aura, bringing the actual snare down to 17%. Realistically, you will only have 5 light on, so it will be 60%, from stampede, down to 40% and then down to 25% if you are a warden.

Thanks for the detail although I did know that. Bare in mind that to actually kite someone you need to maintain a sustainable speed advantage over them.

40% snare vs say crippling’s 40% is no difference especially when you can add stuns in every few seconds and swift boosts or stamsorcs various mobility options.

I still don’t see kiting as a practical possibility and with shields being so weak now LA is just dead outside ganking.

Cripples 40% would be reduced to 20% with just 5 light on, to 5% if you are a warden, all the way to 0% if you are a warden and wearing 7 light. Now, I am not 100% this is the way it works on the PTS but that is the way it would work if it was the way it worked on live.

lucky_dutch

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The way snare reduction works is subtractive. Meaning that the up to 28% reduction is actually calculated like this- 60%-28%= 32% snare. If you are a warden, this stacks with the 15% passive, icy aura, bringing the actual snare down to 17%. Realistically, you will only have 5 light on, so it will be 60%, from stampede, down to 40% and then down to 25% if you are a warden.

Thanks for the detail although I did know that. Bare in mind that to actually kite someone you need to maintain a sustainable speed advantage over them.

40% snare vs say crippling’s 40% is no difference especially when you can add stuns in every few seconds and swift boosts or stamsorcs various mobility options.

I still don’t see kiting as a practical possibility and with shields being so weak now LA is just dead outside ganking.

Cripples 40% would be reduced to 20% with just 5 light on, to 5% if you are a warden, all the way to 0% if you are a warden and wearing 7 light. Now, I am not 100% this is the way it works on the PTS but that is the way it would work if it was the way it worked on live.

Sorry, you misunderstand. I mean imagine the scenario of a LA user with crippling trying to maintain distance against someone with stampede. Basically not possible still.

If they want LA to be usable they need to be more mobile than Heavy/medium and they currently aren’t.

TheYKcid

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO what's your source on that? Not challenging you, I genuinely want to know.

The last I checked (on a thread concerning the Ranger's Gait set, IIRC), the consensus seemed to be that snare reduction functioned multiplicatively. So 20% reduction on a 60% Stampede snare, for instance, would result in a 60*0.8 = 48% snare on you.

Never tested it personally, just going off secondhand info here.

Firstmep

Yeah thats not How it works for rangers gait, same way snares dont stack intensity..
If you have a 50% snare on you with 5 light giving you 20% reduction, you end up being 40% snared. Since 20% of 50% is 10%.

Bergzorn

If it is substractive, 20% from 5x light is quite good. If it's multiplicative, 20% is not worth much (IMO, 20% multiplicative is so weak, they could double the value and it wouldn't be OP).

katorga

Don't see "kiting" happening, except for nightblades, maybe.

Besides the nerf chorus would call it "abusing the terrain" and call for nerfs.

TheYKcid

Any confirmation yet on whether this is subtractive or multiplicative?

I can't test as I don't have PTS access.

Chilly-McFreeze

lucky_dutch wrote: »

40% snare vs say crippling’s 40% is no difference especially when you can add stuns in every few seconds and swift boosts or stamsorcs various mobility options.

I still don’t see kiting as a practical possibility and with shields being so weak now LA is just dead outside ganking.

If I've learned one thing from all the threads about mobility this patch cycle, it's that people want to gut their opponents mobility to the point where they can barely reach them at all. -50% on heavy was an example from another thread. Now you're complaining about builds that are build for and ment to be fast. Where's the balance if a melee char can't even come close to you? There simply have to be options to catch up to ranged players.

Does light have a hard time kiting? Sure. Could they use a snare removal as well? Sí.
But keep in mind that swift, snare immunity, major expedition and speed pots all get nerfed next patch while light get's a new passive. Maybe wait to see how that plays out first before you ask for even more sledgehammer changes. I'm sure more people are forced to run a gap closer now, waisting another bar slot.

Rukzadlithau

Stampede a „cheap“ cast lol?

NyassaV

Can it be 5% plz

I like 5s and 10s and 100s and stuff it makes math easier

TimeDazzler

From the testing on live that I've done with warden passive it is multiplicative. Example 20% reduction of a 40% snare is
.8 * 40.0 = 32% snare.

Bergzorn

Aaaaand that's quite underwhelming. I'll take te sprint cost reduction though.

deLioncourt

Passives should be geared so that they are effective to everyone, not just PvP'ers and not just PvE'rs.

Snare Reduction is evil garbage.

Make it so that it adds Major Resolve and Major Ward when cast, lasting for the duration of the shield.

susmitds

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Passives should be geared so that they are effective to everyone, not just PvP'ers and not just PvE'rs.

Snare Reduction is evil garbage.

Make it so that it adds Major Resolve and Major Ward when cast, lasting for the duration of the shield.

Major Defense buff is useless for magblade, magDK or even magplar. The only class that benefits it is Magsorc, as all others get it as secondary bonuses of essential skills.

Waffennacht

susmitds wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Passives should be geared so that they are effective to everyone, not just PvP'ers and not just PvE'rs.

Snare Reduction is evil garbage.

Make it so that it adds Major Resolve and Major Ward when cast, lasting for the duration of the shield.

Major Defense buff is useless for magblade, magDK or even magplar. The only class that benefits it is Magsorc, as all others get it as secondary bonuses of essential skills.

Yeah, and why sorc skillz are bad. Most classes get the same buff + more

Usually by just slotting abilities other classes get what Sorcs have to actively cast

Bergzorn

susmitds wrote: »

Superhero1257b14_ESO wrote: »

Passives should be geared so that they are effective to everyone, not just PvP'ers and not just PvE'rs.

Snare Reduction is evil garbage.

Make it so that it adds Major Resolve and Major Ward when cast, lasting for the duration of the shield.

Major Defense buff is useless for magblade, magDK or even magplar. The only class that benefits it is Magsorc, as all others get it as secondary bonuses of essential skills.

Maybe sorc is designed with no real need for Major Resolve and Major Ward, and if this should ever change the responsible developers would thoroughly examine the whole class under this new point of view.

ak_pvp

You want 20% snare reduction... per piece... So do you want complete immunity in light, or multiplicative? So a 60% snare (60 x 0.8^5) would 20%. For doing nothing but wearing light.

Yikes.

Speed should be unnerfed. Snares/roots at base should be weaker, 10% and 30% min/maj. Multipicative so better vs fast builds.
Immunity should be removal and 50% reduction for 10s. Grace be 5% per piece, so about 25% on average.
Any root removal should be 4s immunity.
Ta daa, fast bois snarable and rootable, but not super badly. Slow boys less snared+rooted.
Everyone is happy.

Bergzorn

ak_pvp wrote: »

You want 20% snare reduction... per piece...

Not sure if anyone asked for this. Most of us are talking about 5x0.04=20%.

I want this to be additive. A 20% snare does nothing to you, a 60% snare snares for 40% etc.

AFAIK, no one posted how it works on the PTS. In the worst case it's snare x 0.96**5 for five pieces.

ak_pvp

Bergzorn wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

You want 20% snare reduction... per piece...

Not sure if anyone asked for this. Most of us are talking about 5x0.04=20%.

I want this to be additive. A 20% snare does nothing to you, a 60% snare snares for 40% etc.

AFAIK, no one posted how it works on the PTS. In the worst case it's snare x 0.96**5 for five pieces.

OP said that 4% isn't enough, and "That snare resistance needs to be more like 20% if you want anyone to actually play LA in PvP."

I assumed he meant 20% per piece, since that is where the 4% mark comes from. But yeah. I agree that worst case is going to be useless.

idk

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The way snare reduction works is subtractive. Meaning that the up to 28% reduction is actually calculated like this- 60%-28%= 32% snare. If you are a warden, this stacks with the 15% passive, icy aura, bringing the actual snare down to 17%. Realistically, you will only have 5 light on, so it will be 60%, from stampede, down to 40% and then down to 25% if you are a warden.

And there are other sources to mitigate snares such as cleanses. Purge is available to all of us. Warden and templars have their own cleans and the Templars also adds a snare to anyone kited through it.

Bergzorn

ak_pvp wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

You want 20% snare reduction... per piece...

Not sure if anyone asked for this. Most of us are talking about 5x0.04=20%.

I want this to be additive. A 20% snare does nothing to you, a 60% snare snares for 40% etc.

AFAIK, no one posted how it works on the PTS. In the worst case it's snare x 0.96**5 for five pieces.

OP said that 4% isn't enough, and "That snare resistance needs to be more like 20% if you want anyone to actually play LA in PvP."

Lol, you are right. Sorry.

lucky_dutch

ak_pvp wrote: »

You want 20% snare reduction... per piece... So do you want complete immunity in light, or multiplicative? So a 60% snare (60 x 0.8^5) would 20%. For doing nothing but wearing light.

Yikes.

Speed should be unnerfed. Snares/roots at base should be weaker, 10% and 30% min/maj. Multipicative so better vs fast builds.
Immunity should be removal and 50% reduction for 10s. Grace be 5% per piece, so about 25% on average.
Any root removal should be 4s immunity.
Ta daa, fast bois snarable and rootable, but not super badly. Slow boys less snared+rooted.
Everyone is happy.

Obviously not per piece. 20 for 5 pieces. Although it occurs to me that since stam snares are 60% (vs 40% for mag snares), it would actually need to be like 30-40% for 5 pieces to actually enable some form of kiting.

kaithuzar

If they actually improve this it’ll be funny to see stamblades using 5 pieces of light hundings

ccmedaddy

I'm confused. I thought 5pcs of LA already grant 20% reduction?

ak_pvp

ccmedaddy wrote: »

I'm confused. I thought 5pcs of LA already grant 20% reduction?

That is what got me, its probably better for OP to put 20% extra.