How do you feel about the lost of overload 3rd bar?

Tasear

...

Beardimus

Angry.

- it removes something unique about the class
- sorcs struggle for bar space as already covered by the reps / ZOS and this creates us a further issue in particular as other changes means other skills needed (such as boundless for resistances, which before went on OL bar)
- massive impact to full pet sorcs as space is worse
- massive impact to sorc healers for same reason

Lastly. Just the change in general, they are breaking a unique skill that was very sorc and balanced. It sealed huge damage, but was easy to dodge, very telegraphed and left you with no heal on that bar for non pet sorc.. The GCD in / Out meant you used it in combat at risk. It feels they broke the skill for no real reason, or at least not fixing a current issue.

Rohamad_Ali

Hotdog_23

Indifferent, didn’t really like it so I never used it. Kind of always thought of it as unfair considering the other classes did not have access to a third bar. I say give everyone the same number of skill slots.

Morgul667

Disappointed with ZOS

We reported third bar was clunky, they remove it

Lord-Otto

I personally never needed it, PvP nor PvE.

But I specifically asked people who did need it in their builds, and I have to agree it left a hole, especially for stamsorcs. I think many skills need to be reworked to compensate. Too many, perhaps.

Also, sorcs needed a small burst ult, like a magical Dawnbreaker. I'm not sure if a boost to light attacks is useful at all.

DoobZ69

Beardimus wrote: »

Angry.

- it removes something unique about the class
- sorcs struggle for bar space as already covered by the reps / ZOS and this creates us a further issue in particular as other changes means other skills needed (such as boundless for resistances, which before went on OL bar)
- massive impact to full pet sorcs as space is worse
- massive impact to sorc healers for same reason

Lastly. Just the change in general, they are breaking a unique skill that was very sorc and balanced. It sealed huge damage, but was easy to dodge, very telegraphed and left you with no heal on that bar for non pet sorc.. The GCD in / Out meant you used it in combat at risk. It feels they broke the skill for no real reason, or at least not fixing a current issue.

This and:
- massive impact to tanks.

How. If you go skill by skill or tool by tool in terms of tanking vs a DK then the result becomes this:
1.) DK can use every ultimate for tanking because of the Battle Roar passive and all of their ultimates have some sort of survivability/mitigation attached which is useful in tanking. A Sorcerer's only arguable ultimate is Absorption Field which in a boss fight only counts as a HoT and does not help with survivability in any way. Overload can be used for extra buffs and skills which could make up for that but in the new form all it is is a sparkly light and heavy attack and Magicka regen, which, again, adds nothing to survivability.

2.) Passive for passive the DK has 11 (out of 12) passives useful for tanking in one form or another. In comparison the Sorc has 7 (out of 12) and that is being very loose and generous with the term "tanking" here. Again, the buffs and extra abilities from a 3rd bar could be used to make up for this imbalance and no longer do.

3.) Tanking skill/tool of a DK vs a Sorc is, shockingly, also vastly superior when examined closely. Again, with Overload this gap could be narrowed.

Now I'm not saying a Sorc was as good as a DK in tanking with Overload but it was tolerable in a certain sense. Now every skill and tool and passive has to be compared on face value and as far as I am concerned it is a 50% tanking nerf for my Sorc tank (from what it is with Overload). I've rerolled to a DK and had no problems at all running vet MHK without having levelled all the skill lines and keep getting one-shot on my Sorc almost the entire instance. I've exchanged gear from toon to toon so that isn't different. I've given them similar CP and attribute points and accounted for differences (such as Thief Mundus for my Sorc and CritSurge slotted for heals ((an absolute must in my opinion))).

Someone else has already said this but I will say it again: Overload wasn't used by every Sorc build but they took a whole reason out of using it from a huge number of builds without any kind of consideration or a way to make up for it. It is a straight up gutting and nerf.

The Overload itself and a third bar had to be fixed. These fixes should have been across the entire class with provision for all the roles and stamina/magicka in mind. Then the removal of a third bar could be justified and I would most likely have welcomed it. But they took a huge mechanic which makes up for massive downfalls from the healer and the tank role and cut it out completely.

I could go on and on and on about how they are rebalancing the Sorc wrong with every single change but I think its most likely miscommunication. When we said "Pets" are the problem they thought pets needed to be made invincible when we really meant that there is a slotting issue with pets. When we said we needed PvP mobility they thought we couldn't keep the enemy at a distance and gave us an irremovable undodgeable killer stun. The problems are pretty obvious but they choose to fix them and just go about fixing AROUND them. It's game-breaking to say the least.

PS: in case you missed it I am unhappy about the removal of the third bar.

StamWhipCultist

Well, my stamsorc lost few ground effects I used to keep on 3rd bar, like caltrops, rearming and similar. Will have to figure out how to implement rearming on my bars next patch for PvP BGs.

Beardimus

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Angry.

- it removes something unique about the class
- sorcs struggle for bar space as already covered by the reps / ZOS and this creates us a further issue in particular as other changes means other skills needed (such as boundless for resistances, which before went on OL bar)
- massive impact to full pet sorcs as space is worse
- massive impact to sorc healers for same reason

Lastly. Just the change in general, they are breaking a unique skill that was very sorc and balanced. It sealed huge damage, but was easy to dodge, very telegraphed and left you with no heal on that bar for non pet sorc.. The GCD in / Out meant you used it in combat at risk. It feels they broke the skill for no real reason, or at least not fixing a current issue.

This and:
- massive impact to tanks.

How. If you go skill by skill or tool by tool in terms of tanking vs a DK then the result becomes this:
1.) DK can use every ultimate for tanking because of the Battle Roar passive and all of their ultimates have some sort of survivability/mitigation attached which is useful in tanking. A Sorcerer's only arguable ultimate is Absorption Field which in a boss fight only counts as a HoT and does not help with survivability in any way. Overload can be used for extra buffs and skills which could make up for that but in the new form all it is is a sparkly light and heavy attack and Magicka regen, which, again, adds nothing to survivability.

2.) Passive for passive the DK has 11 (out of 12) passives useful for tanking in one form or another. In comparison the Sorc has 7 (out of 12) and that is being very loose and generous with the term "tanking" here. Again, the buffs and extra abilities from a 3rd bar could be used to make up for this imbalance and no longer do.

3.) Tanking skill/tool of a DK vs a Sorc is, shockingly, also vastly superior when examined closely. Again, with Overload this gap could be narrowed.

Now I'm not saying a Sorc was as good as a DK in tanking with Overload but it was tolerable in a certain sense. Now every skill and tool and passive has to be compared on face value and as far as I am concerned it is a 50% tanking nerf for my Sorc tank (from what it is with Overload). I've rerolled to a DK and had no problems at all running vet MHK without having levelled all the skill lines and keep getting one-shot on my Sorc almost the entire instance. I've exchanged gear from toon to toon so that isn't different. I've given them similar CP and attribute points and accounted for differences (such as Thief Mundus for my Sorc and CritSurge slotted for heals ((an absolute must in my opinion))).

Someone else has already said this but I will say it again: Overload wasn't used by every Sorc build but they took a whole reason out of using it from a huge number of builds without any kind of consideration or a way to make up for it. It is a straight up gutting and nerf.

The Overload itself and a third bar had to be fixed. These fixes should have been across the entire class with provision for all the roles and stamina/magicka in mind. Then the removal of a third bar could be justified and I would most likely have welcomed it. But they took a huge mechanic which makes up for massive downfalls from the healer and the tank role and cut it out completely.

I could go on and on and on about how they are rebalancing the Sorc wrong with every single change but I think its most likely miscommunication. When we said "Pets" are the problem they thought pets needed to be made invincible when we really meant that there is a slotting issue with pets. When we said we needed PvP mobility they thought we couldn't keep the enemy at a distance and gave us an irremovable undodgeable killer stun. The problems are pretty obvious but they choose to fix them and just go about fixing AROUND them. It's game-breaking to say the least.

PS: in case you missed it I am unhappy about the removal of the third bar.

Agreed!

Undefwun

Yeah... i only recently learned of the value of the 3rd bar and a month later they announce the removal.

I kept things like Crit Surge, Caltrops, Time Stop and Meditate on there

Feanor

@Tasear

The thing is that most Sorcs would probably be fine with the 3rd bar bring removed if the following conditions were met:

- a solution to the tight bar space (and no Mr. Wrobel, this isn’t an issue because Sorcs “have to many good abilities”, but because the existing choices are both mandatory and one-dimensional, and also the double bar problem for pets and skills)

- the rework of overload into a cheaper burst ultimate (other than the slow LA projectile it is now)

- a rework of the passives (7 out of the 12 passives are not good or too situational)

- better mobility with restoring Streak and adding something unique other than Hurricane for StamSorc

This would also give Sorc some class identity back - much needed in my opinion.

CasNation

Feanor wrote: »

@Tasear

The thing is that most Sorcs would probably be fine with the 3rd bar bring removed if the following conditions were met:

- a solution to the tight bar space (and no Mr. Wrobel, this isn’t an issue because Sorcs “have to many good abilities”, but because the existing choices are both mandatory and one-dimensional, and also the double bar problem for pets and skills)

- the rework of overload into a cheaper burst ultimate (other than the slow LA projectile it is now)

- a rework of the passives (7 out of the 12 passives are not good or too situational)

- better mobility with restoring Streak and adding something unique other than Hurricane for StamSorc

This would also give Sorc some class identity back - much needed in my opinion.

@Tasear

I came in here to say pretty much this ^

Overload wasn't a fun ultumate to use really (to me). It was only there to solve the sorc's problem of not having enough bar space due to one-dimensional abilities, needing to double bar pets, and slot passive skills that do nothing like inner light and bound armor to stay effective.

I think redesigning Overload is a good idea, but they removed the solution without solving the problem, making it very difficult to run the requisite abilities and still have some build freedom and versatility.

Unlike other classes, every sorc's bars look pretty much the exact same depending on PvE or PvP. There is the variation of the pet sorc, but that is a highly contentios playstlye that many (myself included) dont like at all.

Donnasnowheart_ESO

Horrible I've already stated how horrible the change is in other posts but really the biggest sad part for me is that the new one is outright bad.

Koolio

I love going in and out of overload in maelstrom and PvP. I feels so awesome to get it right and fluid.

Artim_X

Before-and-after.

For the last two weeks I've been running dungeons and playing PvP without using my 3rd bar in order to get used to the change. Although I have less tools at my disposal and my PvE builds all have less magicka (can't justify slotting bound aegis or inner light) I'm still able to have fun.

I've decided to accept that this change is happening no matter what. However, even if sorcs get decent buffs down the line I'll never be happy about this change, since the 3rd bar was something I truly loved about the class and it was one of the main reason I would recommend the class to others.

Crixus8000

Annoyed. I rarely used it on my stamsorc but that was just because of how clunky and unreliable it was. It got me killed more often that helped me. I was waiting for a fix but instead it was removed.

AcadianPaladin

My sorcs (magstormsorc with matriarch and bowbowstamsorc) don't use it. Tried it, found it unsatisfactorily clunky and rejected using it further. That said, I lament the loss or nerf of any skill that other players find helpful - and clearly, many sorcs do find it helpful.

redspecter23

Overload was, and still is, a very wacky ability that warps various things about the game. If it never worked this way from the start, we wouldn't have missed what we never had. However, it was introduced in the way it was and players got used to the unique play aspects of it. Taking it away now seems like it's about 4.5 years too late. If the devs don't like the way overload works currently, why take so long to deal with it?

Starlock

I don't really care.

For the longest time, I had no idea the third bar was even a thing. When I did learn it was a thing, I thought it was kind of neat, but didn't care to really use it regularly. My sorcerer is a lightning mage, and there are only so many lightning abilities. He's not a fan of dark magic, but will use it on rare occasion, so I put some of those on that bar. I won't miss it being gone.

I will miss his light attacks on overload hitting like a truck. Not happy about that change. I would use it to ash mobs when I was feeling impatient. XD

Emma_Overload

I feel fine.

I like the new Overload better than the old Overload. Getting in and out of the old Overload was so clunky, it just seemed like a hazard in PvP.

Nox_Noir

Really sucks to have another thing that made the class unique just deleted...

Itacira

sad

Fur_like_snow

I’ll be honest sorc was the last class I played after all the others so I feel like I never got to experience much of the overload bar. Now I have a Stam Sorc in rotation but I don’t bother with overload since it’s probably going extinct next patch.

My limited experience with it was that it felt clunky sometimes to switch between but gave me another bar for utility skills I’d have otherwise had no room to slot at the cost of my second ultimate. It’s not a huge loss for me personally but it does feel like classes are becoming more similar.

Icarus42

Having that third bar brought great versatility to this class. I used it in pvp used to put rapids dark deal, and for fun sometimes volcanic rune. There was something hilarious about launching someone in the air and nailing them with an overload a couple times!
The loss of the third bar will really make people feel like they have to slot only the primary tools of a sorc, like frag, ward curse, mage wrath etc. We will no longer really be able to play around with that extra utility, which will make this class become a sad mundane task instead of a fun versatile class that it used to be.
I guess being able to weave light overload attacks could be cool with mages guild degeneration empowering the light attack, as a duel wield magic sorc I will definitely use this to weave in with my burst rotation, but I did that anyway when it was a third bar, it was tricky but when you pulled it off it was very rewarding.
Overall it feels like this class is being painted into a corner more and more after every patch, after these nerfs there isn't really anywhere else to go except to the dark side and reroll a stamina toon. After four years of working on my sorc and braving through all the changes cant believe I would even think of it, but I am now...

pattyLtd

It makes me sad, it was unique and offered alot of options for diverse playstyles, there is a reason the original designers gave sorcerers this type of feature on a class full of togggles.

I dont have it slotted all the time like i have before the change to max 500 ultimate but its a bad change imo.

Now we can weave it, yay another unique ability destroyed!
Unfortunatedly i am not even surprised by it anymore.

jeskah

Makes me kinda relieved. Dont get me wrong, in its current state for sure it needs adjustments and testing tothe extreme (ulti/dmg ratios, comparisons, does the original light attack damage considered when deciding the damage of the ultimate, etc). But with this change the crowded bar issues have to be adressed at last. No circumvention for that any more. No 3rd bar to idunno, hide these issues.
Now, on the other hand, im curious to see the how the new OL will work with weapon passives - it should, btw - since it no longer a form. DW passives, bow passives, 2h passives, destro staff passives. Will it get the execute passives from dw? The stacking damage buff from bow? The cleave from 2h? Destro extra penetration? Etc. If not, why not. If yes, how would those affect pve and pvp.
Not to mention, we still should have a stamina and a magicka morph of it, adjusted accordingly, and maybe if we use the magregen version as a template for both, we can adress the sustain issues too.
Maybe! Personally i do not like that much to tie sustain to ultimates, see dks.

However, one thing is clear. We are the very beginning of a route with these changes, and because of it, many more changes should, have to come in the neqr future, in this pts cycle.

Biro123

I'm one who often slotted overload just to fit in one 'must-have' skill. Basically giving up a useable ultimate for a standard ability to make up for sorcs bar-space issues.
Now, like shields, they just rip off the band-aid without healing the wound it was covering.
The problem is too many unspammable sorc' abilities, so you need loads of abilities
on your bar just to fill up a rotation.

Morgul667

I have no idea how ill manage my bar next patch. Thought about it today during pvp time ill have to choose carefully and sacrifice important skills for.... well nothing cause i didnt need to in the past.

Thraben

Betrayed

jeskah

Some words how the new OL supposed to work from ZOS would be nice...