No one asked for these speed changes

  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DTStormfox wrote: »
    They didn't nerf speed. They nerfed the abilities that give speed.
    You only have to hit that speed buff ability more often. Which more a nerf to sustain than anything else.

    I am more concerned about the changes with snare immunity, but that is something for another topic.

    But the issue isn't the abilities providing expedition. The issue is that it was possible to zoom around without even casting an ability. But as usual they completely missed the point and butchered class abilities again.
  • Bitmun
    Bitmun
    ✭✭
    FM nerf is awful (for mag builds 2H becomes useless, for stam it will be annoying to spam every 4 seconds). Major Expedition buff 80-100% uptime is a must for stamina builds, espesially if you play solo, so the Major Expedition could be tuned down to 25% speed buff, however staying with reliable uptime. I just don't see the point of playing stamina w/o mobility. :P
  • SilverPaws
    SilverPaws
    ✭✭✭
    Yes, it sucks that they are nerfing small scale and solo more and more, even now it's hard and if they nerf speed pots it will be nearly impossible without mobility.

    I am really not looking forward to this, i guess i won't even play cyro, because it will be just frustrating that zergs will feel even more powerful and escape or los will be nearly impossible.

    I hope they will revert it, but we all know zenimax and they're "balancing" and listening to "feedback".
  • Trancestor
    Trancestor
    ✭✭✭
    Yep, they made speed pots useless, time to uninstall.
  • Mintaka5
    Mintaka5
    ✭✭✭✭
    No one asked for shield nerfs either. Obviously there is a lot right and a lot wrong about this game.
    #buffsorcs

    Play style. Style of play. Play with style!

    PC/NA - Altmer MagSorc DPS
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please fire the developer who said that the speed changes were okay. They do not play their own game.
    Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/AENgyPp

    Let's make frost better for everyone!
  • dagonbeer
    dagonbeer
    ✭✭✭
    Lower cap speed if it's a problem (particularly for heavy. Maybe cap speed when shield active or something). The game engine/targeting system doesn't handle current max speed well anyway. Leave abilities and swift alone, give people different options to attain max speed.
  • Lylith
    Lylith
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZoS effed up with Swift. That’s all there is to it. Fix Swift, don’t destroy everything to justify your mistake

    getting the frags and rune cage treatment, it seems.

    smh.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lylith wrote: »
    ZoS effed up with Swift. That’s all there is to it. Fix Swift, don’t destroy everything to justify your mistake

    getting the frags and rune cage treatment, it seems.

    smh.

    Nothing deserves that ***.
    Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/AENgyPp

    Let's make frost better for everyone!
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Jewlery traits should be designed in such a way that they stack massively. So If you're wearing 1 pc swift the difference will be so low you won't notice it, 2 you're like ok, maybe this is a little quicker and then 3 you're like ohhhhh yeah this is nice.

    This will force for people to make an active choice between what they're going to loss and gain to want to wear them. (Same goes with health, stamina, magicka, infused.....)
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.

    People weren't complaining over Major Expedition, though. Quite the contrary, people generally agreed that it was primarily swift that enabled the game breaking speeds that stamina can achieve on live currently. The reps even outright told Zenimax that Major Expedition is fine. These Major Expedition nerfs are completely the fault of Zenimax, because next to nobody wanted Major Expedition nerfed. If anything, people wanted better access to Major Expedition on magicka.

    This whole "don't nerf the game because of PVP" thing is bs, too. PVP is part of the game, just the same as PVE. And some of these things people complain about genuinely do make the PVP experience worse. Swift genuinely did hurt PVP balance by allowing some builds to move so fast that the targeting system just breaks. Obviously not everything is a valid complaint, a lot of the things people complain about are just them venting, holding no merit. But to say that Zenimax shouldn't balance around PVP the same as PVE is ludicrous.

    Don't blame PVP, nor PVP players, blame Zenimax not splitting balance between PVE and PVP by way of Battle Spirit.
    Edited by jcm2606 on October 10, 2018 8:01AM
    @jcm2606 | PC NA | CP 910+ | Stormproof | Boethia's Scythe
  • Sevn
    Sevn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Crixus8000 wrote: »
    Galarthor wrote: »
    Though the speed pots are either way in a serious need of a nerf!

    No they aren't. Without them solo play will be over for many builds. How do you survive on your own when 4+ players are chasing you with proc sets ? You use los, that will be hard to do when slowly walking around a corner. There is other ways they could handle this but nerfing speed pots is just a massive, destroying nerf to solo 1vx play, and it's already hard enough.

    Serious question, why is a competent player expected to survive an encounter against 4+ competent players, proc sets or not? I know I'm not that good but I can take on maybe 2 competent players before I'm overwhelmed by the damage in BG'S, just curious as to where this thought process started.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
    -Hemingway
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    kind_hero wrote: »
    Totally disagree with the reduction of the duration of certain buffs, like major expedition from sets, boundless storm, shield nerf, and so on. This is mainly because the solo play, like exploration and questing becomes boring with these changes. Why do you need a speed buff that lasts 8 seconds in the open world? You need to mash keys constantly just to reapply some buffs for normal play. I don't think I am going to play magicka sorc anymore as it is because some abilities will just not be fun or rewarding to use for solo play.

    This. Why make PVE boring and totally trash three armor sets that weren't even useful for Major Expedition in PVP? You have to actually kill something/someone to get a whopping 20 seconds of speed (now nerfed to a pointless 8 seconds)..... which is obviously easier to do on NPC's than players. Those sets were worthwhile to werewolves who didn't have access to their class speed buffs or Rapids, but now, the 8 seconds of Major Expedition will be gone by the time you are able to target and devour a couple of corpses to maintain the form. And even if you didn't wear those unique sets, you could get around with speed pots, but now even that is history.

    Killing fleas with a sledgehammer is not the way to fix things. Why doesn't anybody want to try small, subtle changes and make minor adjustments and see how things go? It's always huge, polarizing changes that get the player base all riled up. And this is shaping up to be the biggest nerf in ESO history. I can't wait to see the uproar when these changes drop on the unaware majority!
  • Sevn
    Sevn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.

    People weren't complaining over Major Expedition, though. Quite the contrary, people generally agreed that it was primarily swift that enabled the game breaking speeds that stamina can achieve on live currently. The reps even outright told Zenimax that Major Expedition is fine. These Major Expedition nerfs are completely the fault of Zenimax, because next to nobody wanted Major Expedition nerfed. If anything, people wanted better access to Major Expedition on magicka.

    This whole "don't nerf the game because of PVP" thing is bs, too. PVP is part of the game, just the same as PVP. And some of these things people complain about genuinely do make the PVP experience worse. Swift genuinely did hurt PVP balance by allowing some builds to move so fast that the targeting system just breaks. Obviously not everything is a valid complaint, a lot of the things people complain about are just them venting, holding no merit. But to say that Zenimax shouldn't balance around PVP the same as PVE is ludicrous.

    Don't blame PVP, nor PVP players, blame Zenimax not splitting balance between PVE and PVP by way of Battle Spirit.

    Disagree about the pvp thing. What's ludicrous is trying to balance the entire game around 15% of the player base, which is done more often than them rebalancing skills due to pve. There is no doubt in my mind the game would have far less nerfs by a landslide if not for pvp.

    But you are right, I don't blame pvp nor Pvper's as I am one, I blame Zos for refusing to split the two. It's insulting hearing them say they want it to be a smooth transition when pvp and pve are totally different playstyles and require totally different gear.

    They are fundamentally different games with different audiences and pitting the two very separate groups is tearing their community apart. Constantly. But alas it means nothing until they start losing players and funding which even then might result in them just cashing out instead of delivering a quality experience for both groups. It's easy to think things would be better when they in fact could be worse.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
    -Hemingway
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.

    People weren't complaining over Major Expedition, though. Quite the contrary, people generally agreed that it was primarily swift that enabled the game breaking speeds that stamina can achieve on live currently. The reps even outright told Zenimax that Major Expedition is fine. These Major Expedition nerfs are completely the fault of Zenimax, because next to nobody wanted Major Expedition nerfed. If anything, people wanted better access to Major Expedition on magicka.

    This whole "don't nerf the game because of PVP" thing is bs, too. PVP is part of the game, just the same as PVE. And some of these things people complain about genuinely do make the PVP experience worse. Swift genuinely did hurt PVP balance by allowing some builds to move so fast that the targeting system just breaks. Obviously not everything is a valid complaint, a lot of the things people complain about are just them venting, holding no merit. But to say that Zenimax shouldn't balance around PVP the same as PVE is ludicrous.

    Don't blame PVP, nor PVP players, blame Zenimax not splitting balance between PVE and PVP by way of Battle Spirit.

    ZoS effed up with Swift, but rather than admit their mistake, they are trying to cover it up :unamused:
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sevn wrote: »
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.

    People weren't complaining over Major Expedition, though. Quite the contrary, people generally agreed that it was primarily swift that enabled the game breaking speeds that stamina can achieve on live currently. The reps even outright told Zenimax that Major Expedition is fine. These Major Expedition nerfs are completely the fault of Zenimax, because next to nobody wanted Major Expedition nerfed. If anything, people wanted better access to Major Expedition on magicka.

    This whole "don't nerf the game because of PVP" thing is bs, too. PVP is part of the game, just the same as PVP. And some of these things people complain about genuinely do make the PVP experience worse. Swift genuinely did hurt PVP balance by allowing some builds to move so fast that the targeting system just breaks. Obviously not everything is a valid complaint, a lot of the things people complain about are just them venting, holding no merit. But to say that Zenimax shouldn't balance around PVP the same as PVE is ludicrous.

    Don't blame PVP, nor PVP players, blame Zenimax not splitting balance between PVE and PVP by way of Battle Spirit.

    Disagree about the pvp thing. What's ludicrous is trying to balance the entire game around 15% of the player base, which is done more often than them rebalancing skills due to pve. There is no doubt in my mind the game would have far less nerfs by a landslide if not for pvp.
    Completely agree with this part. PvP is the reason for so many massive game changing nerfs. Because in PvP the margines between good an bad are so much closer. That and the fact that everyone thinks they are the top 10% when in reality most of us are between the 25-75% of player skill level.
    But you are right, I don't blame pvp nor Pvper's as I am one, I blame Zos for refusing to split the two. It's insulting hearing them say they want it to be a smooth transition when pvp and pve are totally different playstyles and require totally different gear.

    They are fundamentally different games with different audiences and pitting the two very separate groups is tearing their community apart. Constantly. But alas it means nothing until they start losing players and funding which even then might result in them just cashing out instead of delivering a quality experience for both groups. It's easy to think things would be better when they in fact could be worse.

    I dont agree with this at all. Less than 5% of the problems come from the fact that the game isn't separate. That's far out weighed by the knowledge of your class you get because it behaves the same way. Proof of that is in the effect of HA a Blocking Player vs a Blocking NPC. $hit thats annoying when I'm fighting someone on there flag and that effing NPC throws up a Block.
    Between Battle Spirit and the fact that every BiS PvE setup includes a Set with Minor/Major Slayer is plenty of "compensation" anyway. Personally I think ZoS would do fine dropping both of those. Nerfing the PvE meta of skill mechanics and burn
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sevn wrote: »
    Crixus8000 wrote: »
    Galarthor wrote: »
    Though the speed pots are either way in a serious need of a nerf!

    No they aren't. Without them solo play will be over for many builds. How do you survive on your own when 4+ players are chasing you with proc sets ? You use los, that will be hard to do when slowly walking around a corner. There is other ways they could handle this but nerfing speed pots is just a massive, destroying nerf to solo 1vx play, and it's already hard enough.

    Serious question, why is a competent player expected to survive an encounter against 4+ competent players, proc sets or not? I know I'm not that good but I can take on maybe 2 competent players before I'm overwhelmed by the damage in BG'S, just curious as to where this thought process started.

    Well if they are actually good players then no your not going to live long. But as long as they arent being carried by overperforming things then yes you can survive decently and that's how it should be using counterplay, like block timing, dodging ect, I don't think it would be a good game design to just insta die when you meet more players no matter how skilled you get.

    My issue is though when they are using overperforming things like poisons, bleed and proc sets, for example I have 30k resists in no cp, and a single zaan has hit me 23k, it goes through block and even walls lol and yet people tell me speed is overpowered ? It helps against things like this. It a solo players defence against being outnumbered, just as a groups defence is the stacked damage and heals they get.
    Edited by Crixus8000 on October 10, 2018 4:10PM
  • Lord_Dexter
    Lord_Dexter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nerf to Speed was much inevitable, currently speeds builds are OP in BG, Small Scale PVP (IC etc.)
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nerf to Speed was much inevitable, currently speeds builds are OP in BG, Small Scale PVP (IC etc.)

    Because ZoS effed up with Swift trait, not because Expedition was over performing.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Finedaible
    Finedaible
    ✭✭✭
    Never encountered a problem with Expedition buff outside of Battlegrounds. The real reason they are nerfing Expedition across the board is to encourage further sales of crown riding lessons :tongue:
    Swift was the real problem, which should have been a good enough nerf on its own.
    Edited by Finedaible on October 10, 2018 6:31PM
  • Sevn
    Sevn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Crixus8000 wrote: »
    Sevn wrote: »
    Crixus8000 wrote: »
    Galarthor wrote: »
    Though the speed pots are either way in a serious need of a nerf!

    No they aren't. Without them solo play will be over for many builds. How do you survive on your own when 4+ players are chasing you with proc sets ? You use los, that will be hard to do when slowly walking around a corner. There is other ways they could handle this but nerfing speed pots is just a massive, destroying nerf to solo 1vx play, and it's already hard enough.

    Serious question, why is a competent player expected to survive an encounter against 4+ competent players, proc sets or not? I know I'm not that good but I can take on maybe 2 competent players before I'm overwhelmed by the damage in BG'S, just curious as to where this thought process started.

    Well if they are actually good players then no your not going to live long. But as long as they arent being carried by overperforming things then yes you can survive decently and that's how it should be using counterplay, like block timing, dodging ect, I don't think it would be a good game design to just insta die when you meet more players no matter how skilled you get.

    My issue is though when they are using overperforming things like poisons, bleed and proc sets, for example I have 30k resists in no cp, and a single zaan has hit me 23k, it goes through block and even walls lol and yet people tell me speed is overpowered ? It helps against things like this. It a solo players defence against being outnumbered, just as a groups defence is the stacked damage and heals they get.

    I don't think it's good game design seeing one dude being able 1vX equal players. 1v1 should end in a stalemate unless one of them messes up. 1vX should be over in a matter of seconds. Whether because the other opponent is healing or outright out damaging the other.

    I dunno, never even thought about something being op because I lost to 2 or more players focused on killing me. I simply disagree something is op because you die when 2 or more players are using a good ability/set against you.

    I also think ego is at fault here to some degree. The number of players who think they only lose because their opponents are using op sets/abilities is staggering. You yourself believe you should last a lot longer than what you can fighting players as good as you or better.

    Two heavyweights slugging it out in the ring, bout goes 12 rounds. 3 heavyweights, 1v2, just how many rounds is the lone warrior expecting to last and more interesting is the lone warrior not only expecting to last, but win?
    Edited by Sevn on October 10, 2018 7:16PM
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
    -Hemingway
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Finedaible wrote: »
    Never encountered a problem with Expedition buff outside of Battlegrounds. The real reason they are nerfing Expedition across the board is to encourage further sales of crown riding lessons :tongue:
    Swift was the real problem, which should have been a good enough nerf on its own.

    Other than Rapids no other swift buff works while mounted. And no other Expedition buff last as long a Rapids which hasn't been nerfed. So, no thats not it
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Crixus8000
    Crixus8000
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sevn wrote: »

    I don't think it's good game design seeing one dude being able 1vX equal players. 1v1 should end in a stalemate unless one of them messes up. 1vX should be over in a matter of seconds. Whether because the other opponent is healing or outright out damaging the other.

    It's not good game design to have reactive counterplay ? It happens all the time when overperforming things aren't used. It's not to difficult to counter combos like sub assault, dizzy, or magsorc burst ect they are very telegraphed. I don't consider myself that great but I have often survived a decent time against multiple decent players just by positioning myself with them all in sight and keeping an eye on their skills, then I can block and dodge accordingly. Landing your entire combo is harder than someone just rolling or blocking.

    Sevn wrote: »
    I dunno, never even thought about something being op because I lost to 2 or more players focused on killing me. I simply disagree something is op because you die when 2 or more players are using a good ability/set against you.

    I have 30k resists in no cp, and have been hit by one zaan that did 23k damage, 2 players using that and your hp is going to drop to 0 in a few seconds, it goes through block and walls, only counterplay is speed. Now if those same 2 players used high stat dmg and attacks like dizzy, frags ect I could time block and roll. That's the difference. Just because your outnumbered shouldn't (and doesn't if they don't use op things) mean your just dead.
    Sevn wrote: »
    I also think ego is at fault here to some degree. The number of players who think they only lose because their opponents are using op sets/abilities is staggering. You yourself believe you should last a lot longer than what you can.

    I have lost fights to players who don't use proc sets, they simply outplayed me. Then I have lost fights, looked at recap and seen a whole screen of proc sets, like my favorite recap of a zaan, 2 caluurions and 2 valykns ^^

    My point is that if your outnumbered most normal skills and spammables have counters simply by skill and good timing, where proc sets and bleeds do not. Speed is useful for helping against things that have no other counter.
    Edited by Crixus8000 on October 11, 2018 12:21AM
  • katorga
    katorga
    ✭✭✭
    I don't think it's good game design seeing one dude being able 1vX equal players.

    There is the rub...equal players.
    1v1 should end in a stalemate unless one of them messes up.

    Someone always messes up.
    1vX should be over in a matter of seconds

    90% of the time it is over in seconds.

    I'm in the potato category more often than not, and so what. There is nothing to stop me from getting the sets, learning the mechanics, perfecting my cancels, etc., to complete. School, sports, work, video games, whatever, someone is always going to get the "bug" and just wipe the floor with the others. Can't balance around that.
  • Jakx
    Jakx
    ✭✭✭✭
    Trancestor wrote: »
    Nobody complained about speed being OP before Swift was a thing, now you nerfed Swift, good, that was a needed change, but why for the hate of ZOS did you have to touch major expedition? 4 seconds on bird of prey, a skill mainly used by magdens who already have the worst mobility, same with magdks nerf to chains, because everyone was totally crying all the time "these darn magdks are too damn fast", now next week you will probably make speed pots last for 15 seconds and nobody will use them anymore, yeah don't do that, just don't. You are only buffing zergs and making solo/small scale play even more of a pain in the ass.


    This was too good not to give credit. This guy guessed it! Even though ZOS somehow thinks the "data" shows people still use swift and speed pots. Lol.
    Joined September 2013
Sign In or Register to comment.