Concern on spell strategist impact on PvE

Onefrkncrzypope

Tonturri wrote: »

Considering that one of the strengths of magicka DPS is cleave and the 500 spell dmg only applies to one target, I think it'll be fine in PvE. In PvP duels however...but eh, not like those are balanced around anyway. Maybe they could increase the dmg boost but give it some downtime.

traditonally yes but if mag were to excel at both? Remember now that stam is using a single target cruddy damage proc set they are much more behind than people think in the cleave aspect to.

Onefrkncrzypope

Xvorg wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

Lots of sets buff 500 + mightbbe fun with monster set. If just light attacking

Just the 100% uptime is the issue. Scathing has a low proc chance, bsw has a cooldown and also averages just over juli. I just remember the distinct convos the devs gave us about the nerfs and competition and blah blah and then they makes this set. Lower the uptime, dont delete into Oblivion just 6/10 uptime like everything else makes sense

It´s a pvp set that in return to having 100% uptime does not buff any defensive spells and is pure singletarget. Which is what balances it out for the content it was designed for.

I meant the use of this set in PvE where your heals and mitigation has been taken care of for you and the incoming damage is rather predictable. PvP its balancy???

Problem with spell dmg is that after certain point, there are diminishing returns. Yes, you can get a high spell dmg number but it won't translate into much more dmg.

That's why until certain point, magicka based build look for extra magicka (or penetration in PvP).

This set looks good up to the 4th stat, the 5th one is just meh, similar to WMK, but that one not only increases your spell dmg, but also your procs.

I mean currently BSW, which has a larger spell damage but a much much lower uptime, is BiS for alot of high damage builds.
BSW has an uptime coefficant of .43. With SS you lose one spell crit and gain spell damage and gain a coefficient of 1. Also you cant argue diminishing returns if it already has been shown to raise DPS.

MLGProPlayer

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

jaws343

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

But again, that is all single target damage. The other sets have a smaller uptime, but when they are up they work on everything. This means in some fights, like the Mage in AA, if you proc this set right before you kill one of her shades, then you have to wait 4 seconds before the set will work against the main boss. Or if you are in a fight and one of your light attacks hit an add and procs the set, you are only doing more damage to that add.

Onefrkncrzypope

jaws343 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

But again, that is all single target damage. The other sets have a smaller uptime, but when they are up they work on everything. This means in some fights, like the Mage in AA, if you proc this set right before you kill one of her shades, then you have to wait 4 seconds before the set will work against the main boss. Or if you are in a fight and one of your light attacks hit an add and procs the set, you are only doing more damage to that add.

Well BSW procs 6 secs before the add is dead. You will then have to wait 12 secs before next you have a 15% chance of a proc. In your arguement shows the unbalance with this set. Even with the 4 sec cooldown its still stronger than BSW which also again has a "perfect" uptime of not .66 but an effective uptime of .43. SS needs a cooldown.

jaws343

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

But again, that is all single target damage. The other sets have a smaller uptime, but when they are up they work on everything. This means in some fights, like the Mage in AA, if you proc this set right before you kill one of her shades, then you have to wait 4 seconds before the set will work against the main boss. Or if you are in a fight and one of your light attacks hit an add and procs the set, you are only doing more damage to that add.

Well BSW procs 6 secs before the add is dead. You will then have to wait 12 secs before next you have a 15% chance of a proc. In your arguement shows the unbalance with this set. Even with the 4 sec cooldown its still stronger than BSW which also again has a "perfect" uptime of not .66 but an effective uptime of .43. SS needs a cooldown.

But the only thing you lose there is the burning damage. You still gain the 500 spell damage that can apply to any enemy and healing. So if the add dies in 6 seconds, you still have the spell damage for 2 more seconds, and then in 4 seconds you will get an opportunity to proc it again. And still, that damage effects all of the outgoing damage you are doing during that time frame to every target you are hitting.

Xvorg

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

Lots of sets buff 500 + mightbbe fun with monster set. If just light attacking

Just the 100% uptime is the issue. Scathing has a low proc chance, bsw has a cooldown and also averages just over juli. I just remember the distinct convos the devs gave us about the nerfs and competition and blah blah and then they makes this set. Lower the uptime, dont delete into Oblivion just 6/10 uptime like everything else makes sense

It´s a pvp set that in return to having 100% uptime does not buff any defensive spells and is pure singletarget. Which is what balances it out for the content it was designed for.

I meant the use of this set in PvE where your heals and mitigation has been taken care of for you and the incoming damage is rather predictable. PvP its balancy???

Problem with spell dmg is that after certain point, there are diminishing returns. Yes, you can get a high spell dmg number but it won't translate into much more dmg.

That's why until certain point, magicka based build look for extra magicka (or penetration in PvP).

This set looks good up to the 4th stat, the 5th one is just meh, similar to WMK, but that one not only increases your spell dmg, but also your procs.

I mean currently BSW, which has a larger spell damage but a much much lower uptime, is BiS for alot of high damage builds.
BSW has an uptime coefficant of .43. With SS you lose one spell crit and gain spell damage and gain a coefficient of 1. Also you cant argue diminishing returns if it already has been shown to raise DPS.

BSW buffs you against all the enemies around and also buffs your heals.

Imho this set is for people who like hitting dummies. Will it be better than BSW on trials? I highly doubt it.

In PvP maybe can be useful for gankers, though I also doubt it too.

In certain way it reminds me the hype when Flanking Strategist (coincidence?) came out, and how it would become BIS for gankers. Currently is just another set to deconstruct.

Onefrkncrzypope

jaws343 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

But again, that is all single target damage. The other sets have a smaller uptime, but when they are up they work on everything. This means in some fights, like the Mage in AA, if you proc this set right before you kill one of her shades, then you have to wait 4 seconds before the set will work against the main boss. Or if you are in a fight and one of your light attacks hit an add and procs the set, you are only doing more damage to that add.

Well BSW procs 6 secs before the add is dead. You will then have to wait 12 secs before next you have a 15% chance of a proc. In your arguement shows the unbalance with this set. Even with the 4 sec cooldown its still stronger than BSW which also again has a "perfect" uptime of not .66 but an effective uptime of .43. SS needs a cooldown.

But the only thing you lose there is the burning damage. You still gain the 500 spell damage that can apply to any enemy and healing. So if the add dies in 6 seconds, you still have the spell damage for 2 more seconds, and then in 4 seconds you will get an opportunity to proc it again. And still, that damage effects all of the outgoing damage you are doing during that time frame to every target you are hitting.

Healing is already taken care of by two healers and again if cleave was the issue then stam wouldn't be in the trail because they have a exclusively single target proc set that carries them.

Xvorg

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

But again, that is all single target damage. The other sets have a smaller uptime, but when they are up they work on everything. This means in some fights, like the Mage in AA, if you proc this set right before you kill one of her shades, then you have to wait 4 seconds before the set will work against the main boss. Or if you are in a fight and one of your light attacks hit an add and procs the set, you are only doing more damage to that add.

Well BSW procs 6 secs before the add is dead. You will then have to wait 12 secs before next you have a 15% chance of a proc. In your arguement shows the unbalance with this set. Even with the 4 sec cooldown its still stronger than BSW which also again has a "perfect" uptime of not .66 but an effective uptime of .43. SS needs a cooldown.

But the only thing you lose there is the burning damage. You still gain the 500 spell damage that can apply to any enemy and healing. So if the add dies in 6 seconds, you still have the spell damage for 2 more seconds, and then in 4 seconds you will get an opportunity to proc it again. And still, that damage effects all of the outgoing damage you are doing during that time frame to every target you are hitting.

Healing is already taken care of by two healers and again if cleave was the issue then stam wouldn't be in the trail because they have a exclusively single target proc set that carries them.

But it's ONE enemy. Are you going to focus just in the boss and not in the adds?

jaws343

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

But again, that is all single target damage. The other sets have a smaller uptime, but when they are up they work on everything. This means in some fights, like the Mage in AA, if you proc this set right before you kill one of her shades, then you have to wait 4 seconds before the set will work against the main boss. Or if you are in a fight and one of your light attacks hit an add and procs the set, you are only doing more damage to that add.

Well BSW procs 6 secs before the add is dead. You will then have to wait 12 secs before next you have a 15% chance of a proc. In your arguement shows the unbalance with this set. Even with the 4 sec cooldown its still stronger than BSW which also again has a "perfect" uptime of not .66 but an effective uptime of .43. SS needs a cooldown.

But the only thing you lose there is the burning damage. You still gain the 500 spell damage that can apply to any enemy and healing. So if the add dies in 6 seconds, you still have the spell damage for 2 more seconds, and then in 4 seconds you will get an opportunity to proc it again. And still, that damage effects all of the outgoing damage you are doing during that time frame to every target you are hitting.

Healing is already taken care of by two healers and again if cleave was the issue then stam wouldn't be in the trail because they have a exclusively single target proc set that carries them.

Or maybe, stam don't need the cleave because mag already take care of that...

LiquidPony

Xvorg wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

But again, that is all single target damage. The other sets have a smaller uptime, but when they are up they work on everything. This means in some fights, like the Mage in AA, if you proc this set right before you kill one of her shades, then you have to wait 4 seconds before the set will work against the main boss. Or if you are in a fight and one of your light attacks hit an add and procs the set, you are only doing more damage to that add.

Well BSW procs 6 secs before the add is dead. You will then have to wait 12 secs before next you have a 15% chance of a proc. In your arguement shows the unbalance with this set. Even with the 4 sec cooldown its still stronger than BSW which also again has a "perfect" uptime of not .66 but an effective uptime of .43. SS needs a cooldown.

But the only thing you lose there is the burning damage. You still gain the 500 spell damage that can apply to any enemy and healing. So if the add dies in 6 seconds, you still have the spell damage for 2 more seconds, and then in 4 seconds you will get an opportunity to proc it again. And still, that damage effects all of the outgoing damage you are doing during that time frame to every target you are hitting.

Healing is already taken care of by two healers and again if cleave was the issue then stam wouldn't be in the trail because they have a exclusively single target proc set that carries them.

But it's ONE enemy. Are you going to focus just in the boss and not in the adds?

Well, yes? That's exactly what we're going to do.

In the majority of content no one "focuses" adds. You just cleave them down with Blockade/Endless Hail/Caltrops/Destro Ultis/LL/Twisting/Jabs and so on and so forth.

Xvorg wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

Lots of sets buff 500 + mightbbe fun with monster set. If just light attacking

Just the 100% uptime is the issue. Scathing has a low proc chance, bsw has a cooldown and also averages just over juli. I just remember the distinct convos the devs gave us about the nerfs and competition and blah blah and then they makes this set. Lower the uptime, dont delete into Oblivion just 6/10 uptime like everything else makes sense

It´s a pvp set that in return to having 100% uptime does not buff any defensive spells and is pure singletarget. Which is what balances it out for the content it was designed for.

I meant the use of this set in PvE where your heals and mitigation has been taken care of for you and the incoming damage is rather predictable. PvP its balancy???

Problem with spell dmg is that after certain point, there are diminishing returns. Yes, you can get a high spell dmg number but it won't translate into much more dmg.

That's why until certain point, magicka based build look for extra magicka (or penetration in PvP).

This set looks good up to the 4th stat, the 5th one is just meh, similar to WMK, but that one not only increases your spell dmg, but also your procs.

Not really. The percentage DPS increase has diminishing returns but in practice that's not what matters.

Say you've got 40,000 Magicka and 3,000 Spell Damage, and you're doing 40k DPS with Major/Minor Sorcery.

If you add 500 Spell Damage, you'll do 43,671 DPS (a 9.18% increase and a DPS increase of 3,671).

If you add 500 more Spell Damage, you'll do 47,405 DPS (an 8.55% increase and a DPS increase of (3,734).

So while your percentage DPS increase went down, since the base DPS value was larger, your actual DPS increase actually went up.

I didn't have time to put together a good visualization but this should demonstrate the idea:



The math could be wrong there, I'm just doing DPS increase = 1 + (10.5 * 500 * 1.25) / (40000 + 10.5 * Spell Damage)

Onefrkncrzypope

jaws343 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It gives 858 effective spell damage, lol. It's silly how OP it is in PvE. Nothing else comes even close to providing this much of a boost to damage (other than Siroria, but that set has an actual drawkback, while SS doesn't).

SS = 858 effective SD
BSW = 544 (at 60% uptime)
Julianos = 399
Necropotence = 590

Now, obviously this is just spell damage (some of these sets give crit%), but they all fall well behind SS in terms of DPS in testing.

It needs a nerf or no other set will be viable for PvE magicka. And I'm sure it will get a nerf, but hopefully it will be sooner rather than later (as in before the patch goes live). This is way stronger than Mechanical Acuity ever was, and even that set made every other set obsolete.

But again, that is all single target damage. The other sets have a smaller uptime, but when they are up they work on everything. This means in some fights, like the Mage in AA, if you proc this set right before you kill one of her shades, then you have to wait 4 seconds before the set will work against the main boss. Or if you are in a fight and one of your light attacks hit an add and procs the set, you are only doing more damage to that add.

Well BSW procs 6 secs before the add is dead. You will then have to wait 12 secs before next you have a 15% chance of a proc. In your arguement shows the unbalance with this set. Even with the 4 sec cooldown its still stronger than BSW which also again has a "perfect" uptime of not .66 but an effective uptime of .43. SS needs a cooldown.

But the only thing you lose there is the burning damage. You still gain the 500 spell damage that can apply to any enemy and healing. So if the add dies in 6 seconds, you still have the spell damage for 2 more seconds, and then in 4 seconds you will get an opportunity to proc it again. And still, that damage effects all of the outgoing damage you are doing during that time frame to every target you are hitting.

Healing is already taken care of by two healers and again if cleave was the issue then stam wouldn't be in the trail because they have a exclusively single target proc set that carries them.

Or maybe, stam don't need the cleave because mag already take care of that...

Isn't the current meta was shove as many stamblades in as possible and round out with magblades. I thought what really made mag required is mechanics. Kiting meteors etc.

LiquidPony

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I understand that it is single Target but regardless of the fight this really pushes the power creep really far. As I don't have pts, I will just use Liko as a good test. He posts pretty straight forward and controlled dps parse of multiple mag toons and comparing to his wolfhunter build they all went up and passed their Stam counterparts. Yes this is single Target but so is Stam. Stam is also super carried by a proc set that is much less reliable than siroria.
I'm concerned that this makes for another elder staves online.

Because it's only single target, does that really justify a perfect uptime with literally the easiest proc condition ever? No cooldown, perfect traits and will be extremely available. I don't see this set being healthy for PvE.


Spell Strategist (Light)
2: Max Magicka
3: Spell Damage
4: Spell Damage
5: When you deal damage with a Light Attack, you place a mark over your target for 5 seconds, granting you 500 Spell Damage against your marked target. This effect can occur every 4 seconds.

I take it you didn't read Liko's description.
He explicitly says that the magicka tests aren't meant to be compared to the stamina tests. Why? Well because in all his magicka builds, he has Off Balance and Minor Vulnerability on top of the Minor Berserk and Orbs. So yeah of course magicka builds will be pulling higher DPS in an environment like that: they have about 9% more damage done (when taking into account all the other % boni)! Stamina builds are still pulling more DPS in single target.

Why does Liko include these extra buffs on magicka builds? Because magicka classes deal elemental damage and all classes will have some Minor Vulnerability due to Imbue Weapon. Some classes will have more however (AKA Sorc). So in order to normalize that, he had to include all those buffs in his testing.

TL;DR: Liko's magicka DPS tests have raid buffs and are only meant to be compared between each other, not between the stamina counter parts. Stamina builds still do more deeps.

(Please don't forget to edit your OP and specify this, because I get your concern, I really do, but you're just taking the wrong example and you could be misleading people )

If you read the earlier conversation after my initial post I was already made aware of this and was aware when writing the post. The only buff that is missing from the two tests is maybe minor vunerability. I can't see if i.a is procing with stam because I am colorblind. both mag and stam are missing buff like prohecy/brutality if not available in class rotation and all the pen help and warhorn.

off balance would help stam but its a low uptime and with dimishing returns IDK if vulnerability would be strong enough to argue keeping stam. if the gap is too small why bring stam? and the blade comarision is not the only thing I'm concerned about.

Just read the descriptions of the parses ... Liko states specifically that the stam DPS parses do not have Minor Vulnerability or Off-Balance.

Minor Vulnerability + Off-Balance would probably be something like a 7-8% DPS increase for the stam parses. All of the stam parses were right around 58k so we're probably looking at 62-63k across the board given the same buffs that magicka DPS were given.

Honestly I don't think the stam/magicka balance is going to change a whole lot this patch. Magicka gets buffed by Spell Strategist but stam got a big buff across the board with the changes/fixes/improvements to enchant procs and the change of Absorb Stamina to physical damage.

Will have to wait and see what numbers people are hitting in raid. I'm also not sure those stam parses, which are a bit old now, are perfectly optimized. In particular, the magplar/magsorc parses use 3 x Bloodthirsty jewelry while the stamplar/stamsorc parses use 2 x Infused / 1 x Bloodthirsty.

Integral1900

Against pve bosses, yea maybe, but it’s useless against hordes of trash and most of this game is still chewing through the rank and file. Maybe you could switch to it in mini trials, might be rather good there. Personally I’m not fussed about it, my existing sets work just fine

WrathOfInnos

What exactly is the recommendation for this set? If it gets nerfed to sub-Julianos before it goes live then I don’t really see any point in adding it to the game. Nobody is going to take the time to farm and upgrade a new set if it is not superior to other options.

In its current state, comparing to Julianos, it is a 4% DPS gain on a single target, with a 6% DPS loss on add splash, a 6% loss in all self healing, and a difficult to quantify DPS loss when switching targets. For example, it will take anywhere from 0-4 seconds after killing a protector in vAS before you get the 5-piece bonus again on Olms, and then another 0-4s with no bonus when switching to focus the next protector. And all that being said, Julianos is not even the go-to set for any end game build, just convenient for comparison.

I think the 5-piece bonuses on both Siroria, Moondancer, Relequen, and Ravager are all superior to that of Spell Strategist, and 3/4 of these sets also have Minor Slayer for about a 1-2% additional DPS gain.

I would recommend we wait and see how the set actually performs in a variety of environments before making any changes. Maybe it turns out to be perfectly balanced, or maybe it gets dropped down to about 450 SD on the 5pc eventually (if it ends up below 400 I’m sure it will be useless). It’s hard to be sure at this point. The one thing I do know is that it is obviously the best option for dummy parsing, and that seems to be skewing opinions about it.

Onefrkncrzypope

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What exactly is the recommendation for this set? If it gets nerfed to sub-Julianos before it goes live then I don’t really see any point in adding it to the game. Nobody is going to take the time to farm and upgrade a new set if it is not superior to other options.

In its current state, comparing to Julianos, it is a 4% DPS gain on a single target, with a 6% DPS loss on add splash, a 6% loss in all self healing, and a difficult to quantify DPS loss when switching targets. For example, it will take anywhere from 0-4 seconds after killing a protector in vAS before you get the 5-piece bonus again on Olms, and then another 0-4s with no bonus when switching to focus the next protector. And all that being said, Julianos is not even the go-to set for any end game build, just convenient for comparison.

I think the 5-piece bonuses on both Siroria, Moondancer, Relequen, and Ravager are all superior to that of Spell Strategist, and 3/4 of these sets also have Minor Slayer for about a 1-2% additional DPS gain.

I would recommend we wait and see how the set actually performs in a variety of environments before making any changes. Maybe it turns out to be perfectly balanced, or maybe it gets dropped down to about 450 SD on the 5pc eventually (if it ends up below 400 I’m sure it will be useless). It’s hard to be sure at this point. The one thing I do know is that it is obviously the best option for dummy parsing, and that seems to be skewing opinions about it.

The uptime is really the only concern I have. The next comparable set is far lower uptime. Just a small cooldown between or a percentage chance or both(reasonable times or percentages) not the bonus as it's behind other sets.

usmcjdking

I haven't tested this particular set, is it possible to apply this debuff onto enemies by simply alternating weaves between, say, 2 dummies?

Onefrkncrzypope

usmcjdking wrote: »

I haven't tested this particular set, is it possible to apply this debuff onto enemies by simply alternating weaves between, say, 2 dummies?

There is a 4 sec cooldown so if so then it woould be a bug

ccmedaddy

Is there really any meaningful difference in terms of cleave dmg between mag and stam? Typically stam has hail+caltrops and mag DPS has blockade+class AOE DoT. And if I'm not mistaken endless hail w/ VMA bow does more DPS than anything mag has.

hedna123b14_ESO

ankeor wrote: »

It's a single target dps set. Good luck using it in a boss fight with multiple adds/mini bosses. Even if you can change the marked target you will always lack aoe damage with spell strategist.

Aoe damage only matters in bad groups. All content can easily be burned through by letting cleave kill the adds. The only times this set will be bad is if you have to rapidly swap targets like in vAS, or Arenas in PvE. It's a good set and not over powered.

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Considering that one of the strengths of magicka DPS is cleave and the 500 spell dmg only applies to one target, I think it'll be fine in PvE. In PvP duels however...but eh, not like those are balanced around anyway. Maybe they could increase the dmg boost but give it some downtime.

traditonally yes but if mag were to excel at both? Remember now that stam is using a single target cruddy damage proc set they are much more behind than people think in the cleave aspect to.

Stam has a lot more cleave than Magicka. Every stam swaps to TFS/VO/Stormfist/asylum daggers on trash. Good luck outparsing that with a mag toon. Even in reloquen/yokeda the cleave is better than mag on bosses...

Onefrkncrzypope

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

It's a single target dps set. Good luck using it in a boss fight with multiple adds/mini bosses. Even if you can change the marked target you will always lack aoe damage with spell strategist.

Aoe damage only matters in bad groups. All content can easily be burned through by letting cleave kill the adds. The only times this set will be bad is if you have to rapidly swap targets like in vAS, or Arenas in PvE. It's a good set and not over powered.

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Considering that one of the strengths of magicka DPS is cleave and the 500 spell dmg only applies to one target, I think it'll be fine in PvE. In PvP duels however...but eh, not like those are balanced around anyway. Maybe they could increase the dmg boost but give it some downtime.

traditonally yes but if mag were to excel at both? Remember now that stam is using a single target cruddy damage proc set they are much more behind than people think in the cleave aspect to.

Stam has a lot more cleave than Magicka. Every stam swaps to TFS/VO/Stormfist/asylum daggers on trash. Good luck outparsing that with a mag toon. Even in reloquen/yokeda the cleave is better than mag on bosses...

So we have some people saying that adds will keep this set balanced and would be a hassle to switch but Stam can? I know you didn't say anything but ad nauseum is insane. Set is balanced I guess lol

firedrgn

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

firedrgn wrote: »

Lots of sets buff 500 + mightbbe fun with monster set. If just light attacking

Just the 100% uptime is the issue. Scathing has a low proc chance, bsw has a cooldown and also averages just over juli. I just remember the distinct convos the devs gave us about the nerfs and competition and blah blah and then they makes this set. Lower the uptime, dont delete into Oblivion just 6/10 uptime like everything else makes sense

Ya i see your point. Automation
Netches etc are specific buffs where this set is spell damage which over all is a bigger buff

IZZEFlameLash

Nerf it for PvE and keep it for PvP.

WrathOfInnos

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Just the 100% uptime is the issue. Scathing has a low proc chance, bsw has a cooldown and also averages just over juli. I just remember the distinct convos the devs gave us about the nerfs and competition and blah blah and then they makes this set. Lower the uptime, dont delete into Oblivion just 6/10 uptime like everything else makes sense

6/10 uptime would kill the set. This condition would make the 5 piece average 300 spell damage. It would require a pure single target fight, with perfect weaving to keep the uptime, and no self-healing required just to be as good as Julianos then. In other words it would be inferior to Juli in 99% of content, and equivalent in the other 1%.

Even something like a 4s proc with a 4s cooldown would be very detrimental to the set. Theoretically it could still get 100% uptime, but would require near-perfection from the user. The one second overlap serves as essentially a grace period to make the set more accessible and easier to use effectively. In this sense, Spell Strategist functions similar to a magicka version of Relequen, allowing high damage to a single target that is being focused with light attacks. While Relequen gives 5s before dropping off, Spell Strategist only has a 1s window before dropping off. However, if SS is lost momentarily, it comes back a full strength on the next light attack, while Relequen takes several seconds to ramp up again.

hedna123b14_ESO

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

It's a single target dps set. Good luck using it in a boss fight with multiple adds/mini bosses. Even if you can change the marked target you will always lack aoe damage with spell strategist.

Aoe damage only matters in bad groups. All content can easily be burned through by letting cleave kill the adds. The only times this set will be bad is if you have to rapidly swap targets like in vAS, or Arenas in PvE. It's a good set and not over powered.

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Considering that one of the strengths of magicka DPS is cleave and the 500 spell dmg only applies to one target, I think it'll be fine in PvE. In PvP duels however...but eh, not like those are balanced around anyway. Maybe they could increase the dmg boost but give it some downtime.

traditonally yes but if mag were to excel at both? Remember now that stam is using a single target cruddy damage proc set they are much more behind than people think in the cleave aspect to.

Stam has a lot more cleave than Magicka. Every stam swaps to TFS/VO/Stormfist/asylum daggers on trash. Good luck outparsing that with a mag toon. Even in reloquen/yokeda the cleave is better than mag on bosses...

So we have some people saying that adds will keep this set balanced and would be a hassle to switch but Stam can? I know you didn't say anything but ad nauseum is insane. Set is balanced I guess lol

Sorry let me clarify...on PC you press a button and an addon swaps gear for you...this is common practice for endgame groups. thus there is no hassle. As for adds keeping this set balanced, adds dont play a role because they die to cleave....i just dont think this set overperforms by an insane amount...it is definitely better than BSW, but only by around 2-3k..

HuawaSepp

Doesn't seem to be overpowered.
It's only useful in good raid groups where aoe dmg is enough.

olsborg

Wheres the Stamstrategist set?

Derra

olsborg wrote: »

Wheres the Stamstrategist set?

Where is magica fury/seventh/truth/ravager?

MLGProPlayer

[

Integral1900 wrote: »

Against pve bosses, yea maybe, but it’s useless against hordes of trash and most of this game is still chewing through the rank and file. Maybe you could switch to it in mini trials, might be rather good there. Personally I’m not fussed about it, my existing sets work just fine

It gives 358 effecitve spell damage against trash. That's far from useless. And you'll still have another 5 pc set on top of that.

IZZEFlameLash

Derra wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Wheres the Stamstrategist set?

Where is magica fury/seventh/truth/ravager?

As someone who wants to wear HA without sacrificing too much damage, I am asking myself this question also.