Medium armor lost to the void?

smashcats

Why does it seem like Medium armor is just 100% useless against heavy armor? You go up against those DK's and stamplars that you cant even scratch wearing medium armor and having high stats.

So i'm considering re-rolling something more tanky and the question I keep asking myself that I'm getting stuck on is, If I become more tanky its going to mean less damage and how am i ever gonna kill these DK's and stamplars anyways with less damage than my medium armor builds? and my medium armor builds can't even do it themselves?

brandonv516

Check out @Liam12548

I believe he runs medium armor builds and has no problem taking down guys in heavy armor. Bleeds I think?

Waffennacht

Are you sure it's medium armor and not that Templar/DK are the antithesis of your set up?

In medium are you using dodge roll as your primary form of mitigation?

If you cannot kill these targets do you continue to fight and die or leave and find a new, killable target?

If you switch to heavy armor, yet are worried about killing heavy armor opponents, think of how they killed you - if you cannot duplicate the same means, then it's your class and not armor selection.

In medium are you stacking wpn dmg and bleeds? Are you roll cancelling your attacks?

Are you running the new Bal set up?

Are you using swift?

Are you using well fitted or impen?

What do you consider high stats?

CP or no CP?

Ragnarock41

Medium armor requires faster reaction times, as result bad/inexperienced players can not make it work at all.

Though if you're a nightblade and still struggling against Dks/stamplars, maybe you should try another game because nothing is easier than stamblade right now.

Thogard

Most high end stam sorcs, stamplars, and stamblades are in medium.

susmitds

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Medium armor requires faster reaction times, as result bad/inexperienced players can not make it work at all.

Though if you're a nightblade and still struggling against Dks/stamplars, maybe you should try another game because nothing is easier than stamblade right now.

Templars have it super easy against medium armor, due to majority of their skills ignoring dodge, which is the primary defense of medium armor.

susmitds

Thogard wrote: »

Most high end stam sorcs, stamplars, and stamblades are in medium.

Are we playing the same game? Every single high end non-gank build is heavy armor.

leepalmer95

Heavy is just better overall.

Best mobility because forward momentum, higher hp, defence etc.. means better sustin as you are not spamming dodge and having things go through it.

Im having fun with my medium stamplar at the moment, but getting snared every 2s isn't fun.

Chilly-McFreeze

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Heavy is just better overall.

Best mobility because forward momentum, higher hp, defence etc.. means better sustin as you are not spamming dodge and having things go through it.

Im having fun with my medium stamplar at the moment, but getting snared every 2s isn't fun.

And what stops you from using forward momentum on medium?

leepalmer95

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Heavy is just better overall.

Best mobility because forward momentum, higher hp, defence etc.. means better sustin as you are not spamming dodge and having things go through it.

Im having fun with my medium stamplar at the moment, but getting snared every 2s isn't fun.

And what stops you from using forward momentum on medium?

The fact i'll get melted.
.
Less armour, less hp, my main defence e.g. dodge roll has so many things that go through it, less healing. So i need the burst heal.

I could build so i'm as tanky as heavy but then why wouldn't i just go heavy?

technohic

I've run stamplar in medium and used Forward Momentum over vigor. The longer root/snare immunity pays out more than the burst heal of rally, and I like to take whatever sustain I can get with stamplar.


Ran heavy for a while, but if you're not damaging your targets now, just wait until you go heavy outside of using a bleed build.

ZarkingFrued

susmitds wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Most high end stam sorcs, stamplars, and stamblades are in medium.

Are we playing the same game? Every single high end non-gank build is heavy armor.

Watch King of Gamez stam sorc and stam dk videos, he X's in medium. I think he may do heavy warden tho.

ZarkingFrued

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Heavy is just better overall.

Best mobility because forward momentum, higher hp, defence etc.. means better sustin as you are not spamming dodge and having things go through it.

Im having fun with my medium stamplar at the moment, but getting snared every 2s isn't fun.

And this is why they're gonna nerf the crap outta forward momentum. Medium doesn't even use it cause we gotta have rally, and heavy just runs around full swift, forward momentum, and max resist doing laps around people in armor that is supposed to be the "heaviest weight" in game. No sacrifice for the extra resist and heavy passives lol

leepalmer95

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Heavy is just better overall.

Best mobility because forward momentum, higher hp, defence etc.. means better sustin as you are not spamming dodge and having things go through it.

Im having fun with my medium stamplar at the moment, but getting snared every 2s isn't fun.

And this is why they're gonna nerf the crap outta forward momentum. Medium doesn't even use it cause we gotta have rally, and heavy just runs around full swift, forward momentum, and max resist doing laps around people in armor that is supposed to be the "heaviest weight" in game. No sacrifice for the extra resist and heavy passives lol

Yeah it's weird that heavy builds are so much more mobile than medium.

Heavy build usually use 2 swift while medium 1 because of medium sprint speed passive. But i'd 100% prefer a heavy setup in that situation because they get overall an extra 10% non sprint speed bonus which is much better i's say. Both get the 100% cap while sprinting.

I hope they buff medium, shuffle should give double the snare immunity, the sneak passive should be changed to something useful? Crit resist for pvp? Not sure what for pve and it should get its cost reduced because even in full medium it's still 3.7k... way too expensive.

usmguy1234

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Most high end stam sorcs, stamplars, and stamblades are in medium.

Are we playing the same game? Every single high end non-gank build is heavy armor.

Watch King of Gamez stam sorc and stam dk videos, he X's in medium. I think he may do heavy warden tho.

Think most of his builds are fury/hundings/bloodspawn

Solariken

In CP it's heavy or bust unless you don't mind the risk of Dawnbreaker 1-shot combos. Sometimes the good CP players in medium are wearing either Brass or Impreg but even then I'd argue it's better to run heavy and stack more damage.

I use heavy in CP and medium in nonCP which is what seems to work for me.

BaylorCorvette

I've been running in Medium on my StamSorc for the last ~6 months, also FM over Shuffle. Making sure Crit Surge is up and DoTs are rolling is what allows StamSorc to get away from using Rally. I've tried going back to Heavy and I just don't like it not that I'm used to my Medium play style.

smashcats

I was using hunding/vipers in medium with 2 piece heavy kraghs with the lover mundus

dual wield/bow, 2600 weapon dmg and 40% crit chance in bgs, still plenty of guys that i cant even scratch they just casually heal and bash me down with a couple reverse slices

currently switched to a heavy shacklebreaker set, everything else the same, i can live for an extra 5 seconds and still kill all the same people i killed before, but the heavy armor dks and stamplars, same issue

leepalmer95

smashcats wrote: »

I was using hunding/vipers in medium with 2 piece heavy kraghs with the lover mundus

dual wield/bow, 2600 weapon dmg and 40% crit chance in bgs, still plenty of guys that i cant even scratch they just casually heal and bash me down with a couple reverse slices

currently switched to a heavy shacklebreaker set, i can live for an extra 5 seconds and still kill all the same people i killed before, but the heavy armor dks and stamplars, same issue

Kraghs and viper are bad sets.

Also you're missing either rally or forward momentum from 2h which is important.

smashcats

leepalmer95 wrote: »

smashcats wrote: »

I was using hunding/vipers in medium with 2 piece heavy kraghs with the lover mundus

dual wield/bow, 2600 weapon dmg and 40% crit chance in bgs, still plenty of guys that i cant even scratch they just casually heal and bash me down with a couple reverse slices

currently switched to a heavy shacklebreaker set, i can live for an extra 5 seconds and still kill all the same people i killed before, but the heavy armor dks and stamplars, same issue

Kraghs and viper are bad sets.

Also you're missing either rally or forward momentum from 2h which is important.

Figured the pen would help since i do no damage do them anyways

smashcats

smashcats wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

smashcats wrote: »

I was using hunding/vipers in medium with 2 piece heavy kraghs with the lover mundus

dual wield/bow, 2600 weapon dmg and 40% crit chance in bgs, still plenty of guys that i cant even scratch they just casually heal and bash me down with a couple reverse slices

currently switched to a heavy shacklebreaker set, i can live for an extra 5 seconds and still kill all the same people i killed before, but the heavy armor dks and stamplars, same issue

Kraghs and viper are bad sets.

Also you're missing either rally or forward momentum from 2h which is important.

Figured the pen would help since i do no damage do them anyways

I already have major brutality from other sources and failing to see how the minor heals from rally are gonna save me at all

smashcats

Fail post

smashcats

What do you think if i were to replace vipers with spriggans

leepalmer95

smashcats wrote: »

What do you think if i were to replace vipers with spriggans

You'd have a lot more dmg.

Also the point of rally isn;t just the hot which is more useful than you think, it's that it gives a burst heal after the hot's stack for a bit which is what you need in medium, if you're heavy you need the snare removal for mobility which makes you overall more tanky.

Replace Khaghs with something else.

Selene/ velidreth for dmg

Troll king/ bloodspawn for defence.

Waffennacht

Unbuffed my Stam sorc sits at 3.25k wpn dmg in no CP

Potential to hit like 6k wpn damage fully buffed.

Penetration is for builds designed around it. Usually NB gankers that have over 100% crit modifier and lethal arrow.

Penetration doesn't help your heals

Penetration doesn't do anything if your base damage is too low to make effective use of it.

Stamina had too many great sets to choose viper over.

You want x7 medium, the added benefit of running heavy pieces is negated by your primary form of mitigation dodge roll. If you want to run defensively orientated set, run impreg in well fitted

I didn't see any new changes in the PTS about dodge roll either

daemonor

@Waffennacht what would u run for a medium bg sorc then?

Waffennacht

daemonor wrote: »

@Waffennacht what would u run for a medium bg sorc then?

I have a topic going, and it only looks like a joke lol

But I run Impreg Eternal Hunt and balorgh or Velidreth x5 well fitted x2 impen, 7 medium

DW + Bow, x2 Swift

But I'm looking to change a bit in the next update. I need to see what happens to soldier of anguish

smashcats

Im a little confused about velidreth, every time i see the poison balls i just step around them, why is it good?

Also for me when it comes to dodge rolling, even with some well fitted and reductions i dont see myself having enough stamina during combat to use that on top of everything else and still keep fighting, without just running out of stamina midway...

if im using stam recovery on jewelry should i just drop it for weapon damage instead? because like I said above, my experience is that no matter what, ur just gonna be out of stamina within like 5 seconds anyways, so recovery doesnt seem to matter (currently around 1500ish)

Waffennacht

smashcats wrote: »

Im a little confused about velidreth, every time i see the poison balls i just step around them, why is it good?

Also for me when it comes to dodge rolling, even with some well fitted and reductions i dont see myself having enough stamina during combat to use that on top of everything else and still keep fighting, without just running out of stamina midway...

if im using stam recovery on jewelry should i just drop it for weapon damage instead? because like I said above, my experience is that no matter what, ur just gonna be out of stamina within like 5 seconds anyways, so recovery doesnt seem to matter (currently around 1500ish)

Velidreth is good when you're up close - I also use leash (you can combine with EH's rune too)

In x7 medium with 5 well fitted I can roll about 7 times in a row, though I've noted I really only need 2 or 3 in quick succession at most

I use the same Regen amount as you (about 1500)

Let's see here, combat for me is usually short and if it's not I use LoS and speed to get out and recover.

If you can, try to incorporate heavy attacks while in combat to help with sustain

I don't use a "spammable" really. Let's say I'm in combat, close enough where I wouldn't use snipe... I go: injection, Rending, if no DB ready probably a heavy attack, spin2win.

Usually Dawnbreaker is ready quickly

You're looking at bleed from axe, bleed from Rending, hurricane DoT, probably Dawnbreaker + it's DoT, and spin2win.

If they try to LoS or run away, leash brings em back + a snare (back into your hurricane and possibly Veli - if using it)

A note about my build:

Eternal + well fitted turns my Dodge roll into like a 2k costing mitigation that can deal 5k damage (after battle spirit) dodge roll in this set up is not only a great form of mitigation, but also of damage. I like to roll through an opponent, then back the other way, leaving my opponent looking in the wrong direction and surrounded by explosive runes. Oh and because I use bow I get major expedition.

So dodge roll gives me: complete damage mitigation window, major expedition, and heavy hitting attack at a lower cost than most abilities in game (think about that and then how people say Shields are OP lol)

mook-eb16_ESO

they want the game to be like skyrim where there's no benefit to wearing light or medium armour

smashcats

Waffennacht wrote: »

smashcats wrote: »

Im a little confused about velidreth, every time i see the poison balls i just step around them, why is it good?

Also for me when it comes to dodge rolling, even with some well fitted and reductions i dont see myself having enough stamina during combat to use that on top of everything else and still keep fighting, without just running out of stamina midway...

if im using stam recovery on jewelry should i just drop it for weapon damage instead? because like I said above, my experience is that no matter what, ur just gonna be out of stamina within like 5 seconds anyways, so recovery doesnt seem to matter (currently around 1500ish)

Velidreth is good when you're up close - I also use leash (you can combine with EH's rune too)

In x7 medium with 5 well fitted I can roll about 7 times in a row, though I've noted I really only need 2 or 3 in quick succession at most

I use the same Regen amount as you (about 1500)

Let's see here, combat for me is usually short and if it's not I use LoS and speed to get out and recover.

If you can, try to incorporate heavy attacks while in combat to help with sustain

I don't use a "spammable" really. Let's say I'm in combat, close enough where I wouldn't use snipe... I go: injection, Rending, if no DB ready probably a heavy attack, spin2win.

Usually Dawnbreaker is ready quickly

You're looking at bleed from axe, bleed from Rending, hurricane DoT, probably Dawnbreaker + it's DoT, and spin2win.

If they try to LoS or run away, leash brings em back + a snare (back into your hurricane and possibly Veli - if using it)

A note about my build:

Eternal + well fitted turns my Dodge roll into like a 2k costing mitigation that can deal 5k damage (after battle spirit) dodge roll in this set up is not only a great form of mitigation, but also of damage. I like to roll through an opponent, then back the other way, leaving my opponent looking in the wrong direction and surrounded by explosive runes. Oh and because I use bow I get major expedition.

So dodge roll gives me: complete damage mitigation window, major expedition, and heavy hitting attack at a lower cost than most abilities in game (think about that and then how people say Shields are OP lol)

Sounds like what you got going on works pretty well, appreciate everybodys replys you have got me wanting to try new things and brainstorming, if anybody has any advice feel free to throw it in here, i been checking back daily