Alternative to zos rendering sorc and light armour basically dead in the water

notyuu

Might sound a little crazy, but the fact that you can just throw up a ward AND maintain attacking output at a high rate so..something needs to be done about wards in general, what zos came up with was "lets put a cast time on it" which pretty much means the magic users are dead...end up...no if, no but..just..dead...and that's bad, really bad REALLY REALLY bad

What I would suggest instead is..keep ward as it is right now...insta cast, good strength all that shabang..but make it so when you cast it, you the caster are slapped with Minor Maim for as long as the ward remains active [meaning when it breaks or times out the debuff is removed]

if that was done, would you still use ward/sorc?

EvilAutoTech

If the shield changes go live I will just reconfigure my sorcs to play with less emphasis on shields. I could switch one of my sets for fortified brass, change my monster set and maybe my mundus stone. Change some CP. I will adapt.

Sylvermynx

Yes

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

If the shield changes go live I will just reconfigure my sorcs to play with less emphasis on shields. I could switch one of my sets for fortified brass, change my monster set and maybe my mundus stone. Change some CP. I will adapt.

I'm new to the game, and have no max level toons as yet. I'll just adapt....

SugaComa

This is what I would do instead... [comment with your idea if you pick this]

When you cast a shield ability all other shields are locked for use ...

This way only one sheild can be used at a time

It's not the shields that's the problem it's the fact sorcs can stack sheilds in differing order for different buffs all while having massive burst damage available to them ...

So instead of being glass cannon build they're a bullet proof glass cannon build

webrgesner

No

Wtf you debuff yourself for trying to survive? NO. Stupid idea

Bouldercleave

Yes

Don't play mage or warden much, but I like that you are thinking of alternatives instead of just raging like an infant.

I like your alternative theory as well.

WrathOfInnos

No

How is it possible that every suggested alternative on the forum ends up being even worse than the cast time on shields? And I am extremely opposed to the cast time on shields.

Making shields crittable will have a massive effect on their usefulness in PVP (not that they really needed it). Shields were fine in PVE and do not need a change there. Let’s just leave it at that.

webrgesner

No

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

How is it possible that every suggested alternative on the forum ends up being even worse than the cast time on shields? And I am extremely opposed to the cast time on shields.

Making shields crittable will have a massive effect on their usefulness in PVP (not that they really needed it). Shields were fine in PVE and do not need a change there. Let’s just leave it at that.

Thats what im saying! Thats like saying "oooohhh if people use vigor they should get minor maim. cuz they get heals over time while going offensive" like makes no sense...
The thing is, people complained about rune cage being too strong... What did they do? They nerf overload, runecage, and shields. Dont make no sense! All they have to do is make runecage blockable and dodgeable and bring back frag CC. ZOS is too ***. Frag CC means less people will use runecage and its evened out for pve and pvp. SIMPLE

AcadianPaladin

No

My sorc is built around solo PvE play with 100% uptime on empowered ward, surge and boundless storm, with matriarch available for heals (only one pet). She sacrifices dps to do this, relying completely on LA weaving, blockade, lightning flood and heavy attacks. One reason she can keep full up time is that she is basically an AoE + heavy attack build so she has the magicka reserves (and heavy attack mag recovery) to keep all her defenses up. Key to this is the instacast and 10 second duration on empowered ward. She kills a bit slowly but with plenty of survivability. This is exactly what I want. That all said, she is no more powerful in solo play than my magplar healer who relies on healing through damage rather than warding it. Neither mage uses annulment, as a 6 second buff is not worth slotting.

Either a cast time or debuff associated with her shield trashes her whole concept and means I can't play solo the way I want.

I assure you that she will not seek out a healer to compensate. The whole stated premise on why this proposed nerf is 'needed' for PvE is preposterous. I can't speak to the PvP concerns about shields except to (as ever) urge that PvE and PvP be balanced separately.

Starlock

No

I don’t agree that the cast time leaves sorcerers or light armor users ‘dead in the water.’ One of my light armor users already doesn’t use shields (doesn’t even have so much as a skill point in it) and survives just fine; it is easy enough to be more proactive or strategic with shields on my other characters. The sky is not falling to me.

Dr.NRG

I dont care about shield cast times to be honest. I play every other mag class without em in ligh armor and can go 1vx with it no problem. The only real big difference to socrs and other mag classes that make that shield chnage a lil rough is that sorcs dont have a decent heal without running pets. So there is your solution to keep both zos and mag sorcs happy; give em a spammable heal keep everything else as is in current pts.

DanteYoda

Yes

I just will stop playing sorcerers and probably wardens.. tired of chasing Zos mad designs.

More than likely will move on though.

Malamar1229

Compared to my stam toons, I always thought sorcs didn't hit quite as hard as they do.
To top that off, unless you build for 15k shields...most players are knocking your ward off in a GCD anyway, so the ONLY way you are casting wards and offense at same time is wearing that monster set that lobs laval balls on shield cast (name slips my mind atm).

I cant go offensive unless I am out of melee range or LOS'ing

JPcrazysquirrel3

How to Be ZOS:

Step 1) Say you want to make Light and Medium armor great again to get rid of the (apparently) overwhelming number of Heavy armor builds

Step 2) Nerf Light armor defensive sets (and presumably some Medium ones too) like Wizard's Riposte

Step 3) Nerf Sorc shields and the one shield that all Light armor users can get



...I guess the next step would be nerfing Crystallized Shield, Obsidian Shield, et al.

Also, gg at removing dodge chance buffs from a magicka user's arsenal. facepalm

Dr.NRG

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

How to Be ZOS:

Step 1) Say you want to make Light and Medium armor great again to get rid of the (apparently) overwhelming number of Heavy armor builds

Step 2) Nerf Light armor defensive sets (and presumably some Medium ones too) like Wizard's Riposte

Step 3) Nerf Sorc shields and the one shield that all Light armor users can get



...I guess the next step would be nerfing Crystallized Shield, Obsidian Shield, et al.

Also, gg at removing dodge chance buffs from a magicka user's arsenal. facepalm

Now they’ll close this post first thing in the morning lol one just cant call out zos xD

Grollok76

Dr.NRG wrote: »

I dont care about shield cast times to be honest. I play every other mag class without em in ligh armor and can go 1vx with it no problem. The only real big difference to socrs and other mag classes that make that shield chnage a lil rough is that sorcs dont have a decent heal without running pets. So there is your solution to keep both zos and mag sorcs happy; give em a spammable heal keep everything else as is in current pts.

If I wanted to self-heal, I would main a Templar. While you're at it, just remove all classes and make everyone the same.

But knowing ZOS, even then they wouldn't be able to resist the nerf-hammer in the name of "balancing".

fred4

notyuu wrote: »

Might sound a little crazy, but the fact that you can just throw up a ward AND maintain attacking output at a high rate so..something needs to be done about wards in general

What nonsense. You spend a GCD shielding, as you do on live, you are not maintaining your attacking output. Guess what, if you only spam shields, you do no damage at all (absent procs, like Infernal Guardian). Your premise is bogus.

grannas211

No

Seriously Wrobel?

Gnozo

Other suggestion: Casting a heal will put minor defile on the caster.....

Prabooo

How about making shields scale with HP? Tanks would get a well deserved gift, and dps would be kinda balanced since most dps have the same HP. Just my 2 cents and it's not a new idea afaik

Irylia

No

Why do we have to penalize ourselves for mitigating damage?
No one has to do that and they have far more options for preventing damage that are even stronger than wards.

LadyNalcarya

No

Do not overnerf shields. If shield stacking is a problem, then it should be adressed specifically.
"You should choose between offense and defense" sounds all fine and good, but the problem is, why would you choose a class that hs to make this decision if you can go stam and have 5k weapon damage, capped resists, insane speed and good heals, all at the same time?
No, I dont want them to nerf stamina. But let's be fair.

Strider__Roshin

This is what I would do instead... [comment with your idea if you pick this]

Learn to play without shields.

Kanar

This is what I would do instead... [comment with your idea if you pick this]

After casting a shield you can't activate any other abilities for 1-2s.

BalticBlues

No

Kanar wrote: »

After casting a shield you can't activate any other abilities for 1-2s.

All too weak, how about:
"After casting a shield you get a loading screen"

Kanar

This is what I would do instead... [comment with your idea if you pick this]

fred4 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

Might sound a little crazy, but the fact that you can just throw up a ward AND maintain attacking output at a high rate so..something needs to be done about wards in general

What nonsense. You spend a GCD shielding, as you do on live, you are not maintaining your attacking output. Guess what, if you only spam shields, you do no damage at all (absent procs, like Infernal Guardian). Your premise is bogus.

I'm torn because when I see posters like you - dishonest and greedy - I laugh at the sorc nerfs and think "serves them right!"

However there are also a lot of sorcs who try to look at the situation impartialy and come up with better solutions than zos did, and for them I feel bad. Even worse, most of the sorcs proposing alternate fixes are set upon by their own kind who will be satisfied with nothing less than reverting all the nerfs.

LadyNalcarya

No

Kanar wrote: »

After casting a shield you can't activate any other abilities for 1-2s.

Actually you already cant cast more than one ability per second. It's called "global cooldown".

Kanar

This is what I would do instead... [comment with your idea if you pick this]

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

After casting a shield you can't activate any other abilities for 1-2s.

Actually you already cant cast more than one ability per second. It's called "global cooldown".

I guess some people need things explained in painful detail:
Currently, casting a shield costs 1 GCD.
After my proposal, casting a shield would cost 1 GCD for the cast plus 1s. One second equals a GCD plus a light attack. So in summary the time cost for casting a shield would be 2 GCDs plus a light attack. That's if we went with a 1s penalty. 2s penalty would be 3 GCDs plus 2 light attacks.

Does that put my proposal in terms you are capable of understanding?

LadyNalcarya

No

Kanar wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

After casting a shield you can't activate any other abilities for 1-2s.

Actually you already cant cast more than one ability per second. It's called "global cooldown".

I guess some people need things explained in painful detail:
Currently, casting a shield costs 1 GCD.
After my proposal, casting a shield would cost 1 GCD for the cast plus 1s. One second equals a GCD plus a light attack. So in summary the time cost for casting a shield would be 2 GCDs plus a light attack. That's if we went with a 1s penalty. 2s penalty would be 3 GCDs plus 2 light attacks.

Does that put my proposal in terms you are capable of understanding?

Why so agressive? Oh well, I guess I shouldnt expect much from a sorc hater.
And no, your proposal doesnt make much sense. If you dont use light armor builds, just imagine if you awesome idea would be applied to all defensive mechanics like dodge, block, cloak or heal.
Some people take the #nerfsorc meme way too seriously.

Kanar

This is what I would do instead... [comment with your idea if you pick this]

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

After casting a shield you can't activate any other abilities for 1-2s.

Actually you already cant cast more than one ability per second. It's called "global cooldown".

I guess some people need things explained in painful detail:
Currently, casting a shield costs 1 GCD.
After my proposal, casting a shield would cost 1 GCD for the cast plus 1s. One second equals a GCD plus a light attack. So in summary the time cost for casting a shield would be 2 GCDs plus a light attack. That's if we went with a 1s penalty. 2s penalty would be 3 GCDs plus 2 light attacks.

Does that put my proposal in terms you are capable of understanding?

Why so agressive? Oh well, I guess I shouldnt expect much from a sorc hater.
And no, your proposal doesnt make much sense. If you dont use light armor builds, just imagine if you awesome idea would be applied to all defensive mechanics like dodge, block, cloak or heal.
Some people take the #nerfsorc meme way too seriously.

Guess you've never dodge rolled before, huh?

LadyNalcarya

No

Kanar wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

After casting a shield you can't activate any other abilities for 1-2s.

Actually you already cant cast more than one ability per second. It's called "global cooldown".

I guess some people need things explained in painful detail:
Currently, casting a shield costs 1 GCD.
After my proposal, casting a shield would cost 1 GCD for the cast plus 1s. One second equals a GCD plus a light attack. So in summary the time cost for casting a shield would be 2 GCDs plus a light attack. That's if we went with a 1s penalty. 2s penalty would be 3 GCDs plus 2 light attacks.

Does that put my proposal in terms you are capable of understanding?

Why so agressive? Oh well, I guess I shouldnt expect much from a sorc hater.
And no, your proposal doesnt make much sense. If you dont use light armor builds, just imagine if you awesome idea would be applied to all defensive mechanics like dodge, block, cloak or heal.
Some people take the #nerfsorc meme way too seriously.

Guess you've never dodge rolled before, huh?

Yep, just another blind hater that is incapable of having a civilized discussion.