People seem to be forgetting that the shield durations are being raised - it's not that bad.

Knowledge

If you read the PTS notes the following changes are being added:

Conjured Ward:
This ability and its morphs now have a 1-second cast time, previously an instant cast.
Increased the duration of the damage shield for Conjured Ward and the Hardened Ward morph to 9 seconds from 6 seconds.
Empowered Ward (morph): Increased the duration of the damage shield to 14 seconds from 9 seconds.

Annulment
This ability and its morphs now have a 1 second cast time, previously instant-cast.
Increased the duration of the damage shield to 9 seconds from 6 seconds.

---

Given the durations are being extended for a much greater period of time than the "1 second" cast time there is really little reason to complain.

All this is doing is balancing out the shield stacking and durability it provides.

It's unreasonable for a shield magicka user to be nearly as durable if not more durable than a heavy armor user while having the luxury of range, cc, and extreme damage.

I fail to see any argument against this change that would be legitimate.

---

Here's an example argument that someone could pose:

"This change makes me weaker than before and I can no longer sustain equal or greater amounts of damage than a heavy armor melee player" - This is an unreasonable argument.

"I can no longer sustain attacks from multiple sources while having access to invisibility, range, and extreme amounts of damage." - This is unreasonable.

The bottom line is that shield stacking and the shields themselves were incredibly strong for ranged players. This change is much less severe than others seem to think given the duration increase.

---

Next we have the following changes:

You can now deal a Critical Strike against an enemy with a damage shield.

Your Spell and Physical Resistance now reduces incoming damage before it is applied to your damage shield.

These changes once again provide balance to the game. Expecting to have maximum defense, maximum damage, not be able to be critically struck, and having the luxury of range is extremely unreasonable.

Please understand that after evaluating these changes I believe it is entirely balanced.

Datthaw

Lol 1st before the flames

SpiderCultist

1s cast time still makes them useless

try it on the PTS, it's pathetic

Knowledge

SpiderCultist wrote: »

1s cast time still makes them useless

try it on the PTS, it's pathetic

Useless and not "overpowered" are different to me.

A ranged magic user should not be as durable as they are on live.

Leeched

It doesnt matter if the duration got increased, if it will be gone within 3 seconds in pvp (if you manage to cast your shield in time at all)

Knowledge

Rilis wrote: »

It doesnt matter if the duration got increased, if it will be gone within 3 seconds in pvp (if you manage to cast your shield in time at all)

Can't you utilize another one of your many abilities that make it difficult for you to be killed? Perhaps teleport if you are a sorcerer, maybe stealth if you're a nightblade, I'm sure these actions would provide ample time to reapply your shield.

Leeched

Well tbh I wont play my magsorc anymore when pts changes go live as they are now. I will try to use shade on my magblades instead of annulment and see if it will work.

MrGraves

Knowledge wrote: »

If you read the PTS notes the following changes are being added:

Conjured Ward:
This ability and its morphs now have a 1-second cast time, previously an instant cast.
Increased the duration of the damage shield for Conjured Ward and the Hardened Ward morph to 9 seconds from 6 seconds.
Empowered Ward (morph): Increased the duration of the damage shield to 14 seconds from 9 seconds.

Annulment
This ability and its morphs now have a 1 second cast time, previously instant-cast.
Increased the duration of the damage shield to 9 seconds from 6 seconds.

---

Given the durations are being extended for a much greater period of time than the "1 second" cast time there is really little reason to complain.

All this is doing is balancing out the shield stacking and durability it provides.

It's unreasonable for a shield magicka user to be nearly as durable if not more durable than a heavy armor user while having the luxury of range, cc, and extreme damage.

I fail to see any argument against this change that would be legitimate.

---

Here's an example argument that someone could pose:

"This change makes me weaker than before and I can no longer sustain equal or greater amounts of damage than a heavy armor melee player" - This is an unreasonable argument.

"I can no longer sustain attacks from multiple sources while having access to invisibility, range, and extreme amounts of damage." - This is unreasonable.

The bottom line is that shield stacking and the shields themselves were incredibly strong for ranged players. This change is much less severe than others seem to think given the duration increase.

---

Next we have the following changes:

You can now deal a Critical Strike against an enemy with a damage shield.

Your Spell and Physical Resistance now reduces incoming damage before it is applied to your damage shield.

These changes once again provide balance to the game. Expecting to have maximum defense, maximum damage, not be able to be critically struck, and having the luxury of range is extremely unreasonable.

Please understand that after evaluating these changes I believe it is entirely balanced.

Increased time doing what? The shields may be too powerful for some but they usually don't last 6 seconds. I highly doubt the whole spell/phys resist will fix this. Especially for healers.

While it is unreasonable for a shield/magicka user to be as strong as an actual tank. (or, dps using magicka shields being as strong as tanks) not everyone who uses the shields are dps. I only really use them on my support characters (nb healer and sorc tank)

My sorc tank is in heavy gear, unless I switch him to dps gear he doesn't really do much damage. I mean I guess we just shouldn't play sorc tanks or.. use the mag shield skills. I don't need the shield skills on any of my dps. But if they are basically unusable then there isn't much of a point? Are the shields too strong on dps chars? Yeah. But making the skill essentially useless doesn't fix the issue. I think having a cast time on it COULD maybe work. But the cast time is too long as it is for it to work. Atleast in my case since I can't take the 2 or so seconds it takes to cast a shield to keep myself alive while also keeping everyone else alive. Only for the shield to just break immediately anyway.

I might not NEED the shield on my healer as much as my tank but that is what usually keeps me alive while I heal allies.

Shievarei

Still affects PVE and most high level attacks cut the shield so a longer duration is irrelevant.

Frawr

Knowledge wrote: »

If you read the PTS notes the following changes are being added:

Conjured Ward:
This ability and its morphs now have a 1-second cast time, previously an instant cast.
Increased the duration of the damage shield for Conjured Ward and the Hardened Ward morph to 9 seconds from 6 seconds.
Empowered Ward (morph): Increased the duration of the damage shield to 14 seconds from 9 seconds.

Annulment
This ability and its morphs now have a 1 second cast time, previously instant-cast.
Increased the duration of the damage shield to 9 seconds from 6 seconds.

---

Given the durations are being extended for a much greater period of time than the "1 second" cast time there is really little reason to complain.

All this is doing is balancing out the shield stacking and durability it provides.

It's unreasonable for a shield magicka user to be nearly as durable if not more durable than a heavy armor user while having the luxury of range, cc, and extreme damage.

I fail to see any argument against this change that would be legitimate.

---

Here's an example argument that someone could pose:

"This change makes me weaker than before and I can no longer sustain equal or greater amounts of damage than a heavy armor melee player" - This is an unreasonable argument.

"I can no longer sustain attacks from multiple sources while having access to invisibility, range, and extreme amounts of damage." - This is unreasonable.

The bottom line is that shield stacking and the shields themselves were incredibly strong for ranged players. This change is much less severe than others seem to think given the duration increase.

---

Next we have the following changes:

You can now deal a Critical Strike against an enemy with a damage shield.

Your Spell and Physical Resistance now reduces incoming damage before it is applied to your damage shield.

These changes once again provide balance to the game. Expecting to have maximum defense, maximum damage, not be able to be critically struck, and having the luxury of range is extremely unreasonable.

Please understand that after evaluating these changes I believe it is entirely balanced.

No doubt the last 10 people also said this but:

Shields are removed in 1-2 seconds of damage in pvp. increasing the timer from 6-9 seconds doesn't really help that does it.

Sorcs in light armour only have 5-10k of resistance and most people have 3-5k of penetration. That resistrance therefore reduces damage by (being generous), 5%.

You can now crit shields which means that, at bare minimum, 15% damage increase on shields if maximum impen / crit damage reduction CPs.

So, in summary:

Duration: no impact
Resistance: -5% damage reduced
Critable: +15% damage taken (at max crit reduction) +50% damage taken (at no crit reduction).

It is a stupid change by people who don't understand their own combat system.

That is not news though given the combat changes to date in the game's life. Changes include, but are not limited to:

- put caps on aoe damage but no caps on aoe healing: spawned the ball group
- removed dynamic ult gen
- removed stacking buff system
- added flat non-stacking buff system
- removed soft caps and pigeon-holed people into stam or mag
- increased all numbers by 10 for the CP system. Only increased health by 7. #facepalm
- added a set to blow up ball groups because refused to remove aoe caps.
- added a skill to blow up ball groups because refused to remove aoe caps.
- added multiplicative costs to streak/dodge because removed soft caps
- removed stam regen from block because removed soft caps
- added poisons
- made ultimates undodgeable
- gave all classes unblockable/undodgeable CC
- removed passive dodge chance to ensure


They have taken a complex combat system where player skill / practice mattered more and turned it into a simple combat system where set choices matter more.

ramasurinenpreub18_ESO

Rilis wrote: »

It doesnt matter if the duration got increased, if it will be gone within 3 seconds in pvp (if you manage to cast your shield in time at all)

Yup. Or in PVE in many scenarios.

This change is going to make VMA, especially rounds 7, 8 and 9, into a nightmare for any mag characters who do not have the arena 100% memorized. On stages 8 and 9, if you're a light armoured vampire without instant cast shields you're done.

Oh hey Mr. Crem guard, how are you? I see you coming over, let me just get my shield up, will just be a second here...oh yeah your stun-kyn buddy found me.... forgot about him. Let me just break free from this stun first and give me a second to get my shie...

Dead.


Yeah, what fun that will be.

Avnr

rune cage and sload was all over on pts from players (just lok at forums if have short memory)
did they listen?? no!
took time nerf them


Let the DLC come see how broken sorc defend
But in this case there not goin to admit they wrong , just ruin other classes ability's to "balance"

Kadoin

Sorry, no matter how you try to defend it, with Murkmire patch changes LA is effectively dead. It already competes with medium and heavy on live for usefulness, and if not for the penetration and cost reduction I suspect no one would really use it pre- and post-Murkmire. Honestly, they should delete Annulment at this point and put something else for light armor users. I'd rather have a magicka version of vigor in in its place, esp. considering the fact that healing ward is also trash now. It's hard to justify using it on live now, and even harder on the PTS for a MAG character. If that was ZOS' goal, they've done well...

VaranisArano

I think everything being argued here has already been said in all the other "L2Play MagSorc!" and "ZOS don't nerf ma shields!" threads - and I dont think we needed yet another one.

GreenhaloX

1 sec cast time isn't bad at all. Likewise for the current Dark Conversion, it's isn't so bad haven't to wait for it to cast (just annoying as hell that you have to wait till it's casted in order to be able switch bar, though). So, it will be similar to wait for the Ward to cast. Heck, I probably wouldn't even notice the diff so much as I'm probably in the midst of combat anyways.. and besides, I always have Hurricane (for stamsorc) or Boundless Storm up. We'll be fine.. and definitely liking the increased to duration; particularly to Hardened Ward. I would so enjoy that for my stamsorc.

Knowledge

GreenhaloX wrote: »

1 sec cast time isn't bad at all. Likewise for the current Dark Conversion, it's isn't so bad haven't to wait for it to cast (just annoying as hell that you have to wait till it's casted in order to be able switch bar, though). So, it will be similar to wait for the Ward to cast. Heck, I probably wouldn't even notice the diff so much as I'm probably in the midst of combat anyways.. and besides, I always have Hurricane (for stamsorc) or Boundless Storm up. We'll be fine.. and definitely liking the increased to duration; particularly to Hardened Ward. I would so enjoy that for my stamsorc.

I agree and sorc will still be a menace in PVP.

The really good players won't be phased by a 1s delay.

They are usually applying so much pressure it won't matter.

And if they are under pressure I am certain they can survive for longer than one second.

Huggelz

No they can't, find me a good sorcerer that has welcomed these changes, find just one

Knowledge

Huggelz wrote: »

No they can't, find me a good sorcerer that has welcomed these changes, find just one

Are you a good sorcerer?

Huggelz

Knowledge wrote: »

Huggelz wrote: »

No they can't, find me a good sorcerer that has welcomed these changes, find just one

Are you a good sorcerer?

Could probably beat 96% of magicka sorcerers and barely even play it anymore, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24n9fYPHkfI&t=3812s here is a complete break down of the magicka sorcerer changes by one of the best magsorcs NA if not the best, its a bit long so id skip to the more recent patches but he explains why these changes are detrimental from a top tier player perspective far more eloquently then I do.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

It doesn't do me any good to have the shield last longer if I'm dead before it finishes casting.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO

I wonder how much experience does OP actually have with shields in PvP.

Shields seldom last their normal duration if you are facing someone who is not a total Muppet. So the duration increase doesn't mean anything other than salt on your wounds.

Furthermore, with the critical strikes effecting shields, they are probably going to go down even faster than they already do.

OrphanHelgen

I think it's because it can be interrupted and is one of the reason it's not reliable

Sheezabeast

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I think it's because it can be interrupted and is one of the reason it's not reliable

On the PTS forums zos commented on a post that in PTS notes 2 (coming monday) they are making the shield casting uninterruptible

Emmagoldman

if you animation cancel shields you

1. shields and hit block. block isnt a good idea since stam is needed to breakfree. Not that you cant but bashing isnt as strong on mag

2. shield then roll dodge. You are not stam, that a really bad use of stam

3. shield, la or ha. Yes its weaving. Its what every compenent player does.
example using bow.

HA--> poison inject
HA-->DIZZY SWING--> bash

4. shield --> bar swap
This isnt really game breaking

ZOS_Mika

We have recently removed a great deal of baiting commentary from this thread. Because the discussion derailed rather quickly, we have decided to close it down. Thanks for your understanding.