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Quit whining about the shield cast time. ZOS would never lead us astray.

mpicklesster
mpicklesster
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I don’t understand why everyone is so worried. We all know that ZOS would never introduce something like a cast time to shields without first testing it under a variety of scenarios in which people typically use a damage shield. For example, I’m sure that their own development team did a practice run of vet Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode themselves to make sure that the cast time didn’t make it unduly difficult to survive the mechanics in which people normally use a shield. I bet they practiced surviving the Star Fall mechanic on the last boss several times. And, seeing as the vast majority of players always preemptively shield before this mechanic anyways, the added cast time in no way increased the number of people who died to this mechanic. Besides, we’re all used to preemptively shielding before every random mechanic, so it’s not like we’re going to have to adopt a “psychic” play style to survive. And you know they always test changes like this with a focus group of carefully selected novice players to ensure that they can survive mechanics like this under the new changes, too. They wouldn’t introduce a change like this without carefully considering whether or not it'll disproportionately impact newer players and/or experienced players learning new content. In addition, we all know that ZOS has a history of testing out their proposed changes themselves in all of the veteran trials (both hard mode and regular mode). So why worry when we know they have an exhaustive, in-house testing process?
I’m also certain that they made sure that the new cast-time wouldn’t unduly impact survival in the high-ping situations we typically experience in places like PvP. For example, remember all of the thorough testing they did before implementing the changes to Rune Cage introduced with Summerset? We all remember the forum post Eric Wrobel made telling us the results of his own tests with the skill in a high-ping PvP environment. He assured us that the skill was thoroughly tested to ensure it didn’t take an excessive amount of time to break free from in high-ping PvP. Remember all of the test videos he posted on the forums to prove this to us? Which is precisely why Rune Cage has remained unchanged ever since. So, if we can trust them to thoroughly test skills such as this in stressful environments, we can rest assured they’ve done the same kind of testing for the new cast time for shields.
Besides, it’s not like we aren’t used to employing a wealth of skills with cast times already. Magicka wardens have many skills with a cast time and that hasn’t stopped them from becoming the most commonly used DPS in both PvE and PvP. And we’re all accustomed to seeing magicka templars constantly use Dark Flare as their spammable ability. Also—cast times haven’t stopped sorcerers from using Dark Deal as their primary sustain tool in PvE. We all know that the reason sorcs are so commonly used to beat veteran Maelstrom Arena (for novice and experienced players alike) is because it’s so easy to cast Dark Deal in the middle of a mechanic-heavy fight to get your resources back. The cast time isn’t an impediment whatsoever and in no way infuses combat with an excruciating level of tedium that makes you consider playing another game entirely.

So quit worrying!
  • dagonbeer
    dagonbeer
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    Well said. We can also be sure that any lingering balance issues will be swiftly addressed. Remember when Sharpened gave 5k penetration and was the only trait that mattered? Thank god we didn't have to live with that for long.
  • arasysb14_ESO
    arasysb14_ESO
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    We all know that ZOS would never introduce something like a cast time to shields without first testing it

    stopped reading there.

    Arasys Llanor, CP 800+ Magicka Sorcerer NA

    Please do not use the same Fallout 76 engine for TES VI
  • iCaliban
    iCaliban
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    Remember how great the morrowind combat changes were? Combat is so much more dynamic now that many classes need to weave in heavy attacks! So much more engaging. Rune cage was perfectly balanced! But frags stunning was OP. /s

    I especially love the grindy way we got motifs now. Not only dont we get the OP full pages, we get fragments which let us have a chance at the full page. Such a community and consumer driven response!
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    I need to send my sarcasm detector in for recalibration.
  • aeowulf
    aeowulf
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    You forgot to mention all the testing done with Morrowind, focused around how all roles performed under tough conditions for each class, like NB & Templar tanks. I was surprised to see them getting a stamina sustain boost only 18 months after taking them from basically none (who needs stamina to tank right?) to well, actually maybe just enough. Talk about a prompt fix!!

    Although I would like to reiterate the 'quit worrying' sentiment. Worrying is a complete waste of energy and nothing good ever came from it. That energy is certainly best set elsewhere, like going to the Winchester, having a nice cold pint, and waiting for all this to blow over.
  • katorga
    katorga
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    1*wXAr1VvZso84EQ_ZcwDzIQ.jpeg
  • Wuuffyy
    Wuuffyy
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    These changes are deserved. Too strong in pve w/ no reason to grab stam. In pvp they made you an unncrittable, no pen tank w/ dps stats. WELCOME TO IMPEN & ARMOR BUFFS LITTLE POTATOES!
    Edited by Wuuffyy on September 21, 2018 6:45PM
    Wuuffyy,
    ESO player since 2014
    -PM for questions
  • mistrija999
    mistrija999
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    I don’t understand why everyone is so worried. We all know that ZOS would never introduce something like a cast time to shields without first testing it under a variety of scenarios in which people typically use a damage shield [

    so true
    Edited by mistrija999 on September 21, 2018 6:50PM
  • mpicklesster
    mpicklesster
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    These changes are deserved. Too strong in pve w/ no reason to grab stam. In pvp they made you an unncrittable, no pen tank w/ dps stats. WELCOME TO IMPEN & ARMOR BUFFS LITTLE POTATOES!

    Great point. You clearly observed that my biggest gripe with the shield changes was them becoming crittable and associated with resistances. That's why I wrote volumes and volumes about the downsides of shields being crittable and associated with resistances. I scarcely wrote anything about the downsides of cast times!
  • iCaliban
    iCaliban
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    These changes are deserved. Too strong in pve w/ no reason to grab stam. In pvp they made you an unncrittable, no pen tank w/ dps stats. WELCOME TO IMPEN & ARMOR BUFFS LITTLE POTATOES!

    Great point. You clearly observed that my biggest gripe with the shield changes was them becoming crittable and associated with resistances. That's why I wrote volumes and volumes about the downsides of shields being crittable and associated with resistances. I scarcely wrote anything about the downsides of cast times!

    Yeah its not like every decent mag player was running full tri stat and impen in pvp anyway.... Along with at least 1 regen set and major ward/resolve.
  • ku5h
    ku5h
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    These changes are deserved. Too strong in pve w/ no reason to grab stam. In pvp they made you an unncrittable, no pen tank w/ dps stats. WELCOME TO IMPEN & ARMOR BUFFS LITTLE POTATOES!

    You never played magSorc on any competative lvl PvE or PvP, right?
  • ku5h
    ku5h
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    iCaliban wrote: »
    These changes are deserved. Too strong in pve w/ no reason to grab stam. In pvp they made you an unncrittable, no pen tank w/ dps stats. WELCOME TO IMPEN & ARMOR BUFFS LITTLE POTATOES!

    Great point. You clearly observed that my biggest gripe with the shield changes was them becoming crittable and associated with resistances. That's why I wrote volumes and volumes about the downsides of shields being crittable and associated with resistances. I scarcely wrote anything about the downsides of cast times!

    Yeah its not like every decent mag player was running full tri stat and impen in pvp anyway.... Along with at least 1 regen set and major ward/resolve.

    Because ever magplar runns Ha and ward/resolve buff is tied to their skill stup anyway. Your comparison is terrible. Oh yea and Bol.
  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    Stamina build can do end game content without shields so unless PvE stam builds prema roll I think you can survive.
    Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
    Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
    Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
    Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
    Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
    Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
    Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
    Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
    Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
    Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
    Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
    Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
    Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
    Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master

    For the King of Argonia
    May Sithis hold back his Void
  • mpicklesster
    mpicklesster
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    Stamina build can do end game content without shields so unless PvE stam builds prema roll I think you can survive.

    I agree. And clearly stamina builds don't have any features that enable them to survive without shields. It's not like they typically have higher resistances than magicka builds. And it's not like they have more stamina to block and dodge roll with. And I know that stamina builds are already accustomed to the cast times on their defensive skills--so it's not like magicka builds will suffer differently. We all know that there's a 1 sec cast time for Vigor (or Rally, if you're a 2H build). And there's the infamous 1 sec cast time to Repentance that stamplars have become accustomed to, or the 1 sec cast time to the Warden stamina-based burst heal of Soothing Spores. Stamina builds clearly have years of practice working around all of the cast times to their defenses, so magicka builds should quit complaining and just L2P.
  • bardx86
    bardx86
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    This is the best lol
  • Freddycruz89
    Freddycruz89
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    SHHHH! Stop! I'm collecting their tears for a new potion of get gwud.

    I cannot wait for patch! Good bye 3-in-1 exploiters!

    Praised be the ZOS deity's for these summer rains upon the dying fields of Cyrodiil!
    Octavius Maximus, Founder of The Maester' Order
    PS4 NA. Role Player. Housing Fanatic. Part Time Achievement Hunter.
    | Princely Dawnlight Palace |
  • bardx86
    bardx86
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    SHHHH! Stop! I'm collecting their tears for a new potion of get gwud.

    I cannot wait for patch! Good bye 3-in-1 exploiters!

    Praised be the ZOS deity's for these summer rains upon the dying fields of Cyrodiil!

    Omg if a Sorc is casting 3 shields that only leave 2-3 GCD to kill you. If you are dying to Sorcs playing this way this patch isn't going to help you. You will still get destroyed .
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    You must be new here if you believe in zos.


    Also hel ra is very old content so of course its easy.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
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    bardx86 wrote: »
    SHHHH! Stop! I'm collecting their tears for a new potion of get gwud.

    I cannot wait for patch! Good bye 3-in-1 exploiters!

    Praised be the ZOS deity's for these summer rains upon the dying fields of Cyrodiil!

    Omg if a Sorc is casting 3 shields that only leave 2-3 GCD to kill you. If you are dying to Sorcs playing this way this patch isn't going to help you. You will still get destroyed .

    You only have to read his tag to raise that to be the truth.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • Freddycruz89
    Freddycruz89
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    bardx86 wrote: »
    SHHHH! Stop! I'm collecting their tears for a new potion of get gwud.

    I cannot wait for patch! Good bye 3-in-1 exploiters!

    Praised be the ZOS deity's for these summer rains upon the dying fields of Cyrodiil!

    Omg if a Sorc is casting 3 shields that only leave 2-3 GCD to kill you. If you are dying to Sorcs playing this way this patch isn't going to help you. You will still get destroyed .

    Welcome to our hell, Sorcs. We saved you the seat to our right, the one on the left is for Nightblades...they're on their way.
    Octavius Maximus, Founder of The Maester' Order
    PS4 NA. Role Player. Housing Fanatic. Part Time Achievement Hunter.
    | Princely Dawnlight Palace |
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
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    We all know that ZOS would never introduce something like a cast time to shields without first testing it

    stopped reading there.

    39f8rmh.jpg
  • Freddycruz89
    Freddycruz89
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    Hey look! Sorc tears truly ARE magical!

    "ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »
    Hey all,

    Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

    First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

    The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

    If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

    In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback."

    Well done my good sirs, well done indeed.

    Octavius Maximus, Founder of The Maester' Order
    PS4 NA. Role Player. Housing Fanatic. Part Time Achievement Hunter.
    | Princely Dawnlight Palace |
  • Nefas
    Nefas
    Class Representative
    For example, I’m sure that their own development team did a practice run of vet Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode themselves to make sure that the cast time didn’t make it unduly difficult to survive the mechanics in which people normally use a shield. I bet they practiced surviving the Star Fall mechanic on the last boss several times.

    ozp4hkk9lrht.png
  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    Stamina build can do end game content without shields so unless PvE stam builds prema roll I think you can survive.

    I agree. And clearly stamina builds don't have any features that enable them to survive without shields. It's not like they typically have higher resistances than magicka builds. And it's not like they have more stamina to block and dodge roll with. And I know that stamina builds are already accustomed to the cast times on their defensive skills--so it's not like magicka builds will suffer differently. We all know that there's a 1 sec cast time for Vigor (or Rally, if you're a 2H build). And there's the infamous 1 sec cast time to Repentance that stamplars have become accustomed to, or the 1 sec cast time to the Warden stamina-based burst heal of Soothing Spores. Stamina builds clearly have years of practice working around all of the cast times to their defenses, so magicka builds should quit complaining and just L2P.

    I hope you don’t mean the few thousand points of extra resistance that’s a few percents different. Block and roll cause we can’t pop a 20k shield from thin air so you block or roll the attack. Your shield has a cast time Vigor and Rally are both heals. HoTs that don’t cut damage in any way just heal. So what’s your point there?? You can still heal hell Mages can heal far better then Stamina builds. Repentance is a heal again and if you’re a Sorc... Dark Deal....

    Stamina has had years of no stamina regen while blocking and 33% increases cost to roll dodge. So no not a cast time just penalties for defending yourself for too long. Much like the penalty mages get for having shields up for too long... ohh yeah only stamina based defense have a down side. But I see your point carry on.
    Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
    Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
    Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
    Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
    Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
    Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
    Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
    Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
    Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
    Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
    Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
    Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
    Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
    Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master

    For the King of Argonia
    May Sithis hold back his Void
  • BigBadVolk
    BigBadVolk
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    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    bardx86 wrote: »
    SHHHH! Stop! I'm collecting their tears for a new potion of get gwud.

    I cannot wait for patch! Good bye 3-in-1 exploiters!

    Praised be the ZOS deity's for these summer rains upon the dying fields of Cyrodiil!

    Omg if a Sorc is casting 3 shields that only leave 2-3 GCD to kill you. If you are dying to Sorcs playing this way this patch isn't going to help you. You will still get destroyed .

    You only have to read his tag to raise that to be the truth.

    he says goodbye to them, but they will run in his zerg.. awkwaaaard
    "The ass is similar to the opinion: Everyone has it, but no one cares about the others!"
    I'm 120 years old
  • BigBadVolk
    BigBadVolk
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    I don’t understand why everyone is so worried. We all know that ZOS would never introduce something like a cast time to shields without first testing it under a variety of scenarios in which people typically use a damage shield. For example, I’m sure that their own development team did a practice run of vet Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode themselves to make sure that the cast time didn’t make it unduly difficult to survive the mechanics in which people normally use a shield. I bet they practiced surviving the Star Fall mechanic on the last boss several times. And, seeing as the vast majority of players always preemptively shield before this mechanic anyways, the added cast time in no way increased the number of people who died to this mechanic. Besides, we’re all used to preemptively shielding before every random mechanic, so it’s not like we’re going to have to adopt a “psychic” play style to survive. And you know they always test changes like this with a focus group of carefully selected novice players to ensure that they can survive mechanics like this under the new changes, too. They wouldn’t introduce a change like this without carefully considering whether or not it'll disproportionately impact newer players and/or experienced players learning new content. In addition, we all know that ZOS has a history of testing out their proposed changes themselves in all of the veteran trials (both hard mode and regular mode). So why worry when we know they have an exhaustive, in-house testing process?
    I’m also certain that they made sure that the new cast-time wouldn’t unduly impact survival in the high-ping situations we typically experience in places like PvP. For example, remember all of the thorough testing they did before implementing the changes to Rune Cage introduced with Summerset? We all remember the forum post Eric Wrobel made telling us the results of his own tests with the skill in a high-ping PvP environment. He assured us that the skill was thoroughly tested to ensure it didn’t take an excessive amount of time to break free from in high-ping PvP. Remember all of the test videos he posted on the forums to prove this to us? Which is precisely why Rune Cage has remained unchanged ever since. So, if we can trust them to thoroughly test skills such as this in stressful environments, we can rest assured they’ve done the same kind of testing for the new cast time for shields.
    Besides, it’s not like we aren’t used to employing a wealth of skills with cast times already. Magicka wardens have many skills with a cast time and that hasn’t stopped them from becoming the most commonly used DPS in both PvE and PvP. And we’re all accustomed to seeing magicka templars constantly use Dark Flare as their spammable ability. Also—cast times haven’t stopped sorcerers from using Dark Deal as their primary sustain tool in PvE. We all know that the reason sorcs are so commonly used to beat veteran Maelstrom Arena (for novice and experienced players alike) is because it’s so easy to cast Dark Deal in the middle of a mechanic-heavy fight to get your resources back. The cast time isn’t an impediment whatsoever and in no way infuses combat with an excruciating level of tedium that makes you consider playing another game entirely.

    So quit worrying!

    100% insightful
    "The ass is similar to the opinion: Everyone has it, but no one cares about the others!"
    I'm 120 years old
  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
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    I need to send my sarcasm detector in for recalibration.

    It's a good OP. It kept me reading to the halfway point to make sure it was sarcasm. 8/10
  • Aebaradath
    Aebaradath
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    This must be your first PTS cycle, OP.
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    You must be new here. Good on you. May you never get the rude wakeup call that all of us experienced players got so that you can keep living in this bubble.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • Arkangeloski
    Arkangeloski
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    .
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