Can Sorc Has Snare Immunity? :D

PathwayM

So ZOS, if you feel the need to take away the primary defense for Magicka sorcerers, could you please grant us an outlet for snare immunity? The reason for this is as follows:

Shields without cast time enabled stacking a continuous rotation of shields for the purpose of defending against primarily melee attackers. In sorc vs ranged battles we had less need to actually spam shields vs many class because we had the occasional option of roll dodging and keeping pressure on our targets. By granting sorcerers a source of snare immunity accessible to light armor users this would effectively allow the sorcerer to escape a melee threat without being constantly snared repeatedly and ultimately locked in place and forced to defend. This also caused lots of stamina management pressure due to the repeated incoming stuns, roots, and snares. Shields were really the only way to defend against this. However, since the cast time on shields will effectively neuter this method of defending, we now need the option to escape. Currently, sorcerers do have the mobility to get out of harms way through streak, but we are often stuck in place still due to roots that follow us.

Solution: Grant Streak & Morphs 4 seconds of snare immunity. This would allow sorcerers to play a highly mobile style of gameplay while being able to actually escape melee situations and keep their ranged advantage. This is still countered easily by gap closers available to all other classes and I think would provide a great new playstyle to magicka sorc with the potential for skilled players to really take advantage of the mobility when combined with skills like boundless storm.

This might even be a good option to add to the base skill of lightning form which would also provide stamina sorcerers with a unique form of snare removal to help solidify their class identity (streak would effectively do this as well though) and would not force them to run shuffle or forward momentum and could mean more build diversity with setups like heavy armor + sword/board + bow. Who knows?

Thoughts anyone?

usmcjdking

I could get on board with snare removal/immunity ala wings to Lightning Form.

PathwayM

usmcjdking wrote: »

I could get on board with snare removal/immunity ala wings to Lightning Form.

I think it would help keep the fast paced game play and balance out the shield nerfs a bit.

flacidstone

What’s a Sorc?

PathwayM

flacidstone wrote: »

What’s a Sorc?

-. -

Chilly-McFreeze

Honestly, they could do soo many things to better our mobility. Snare & root immunity is only one of many things. But it would be a good start. Personally I prefer it on streak. Maybe make it a bit shorter than the fatigue is so spamming it/ getting 100% uptime would be nearly impossible. But in my mind the streak fatigue should be removed, so whatever.

Other good skills for this would be indeed lightning forms or, to give it an actual use, bound armor.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If they actually plan to continue with the dumbest F'ing change I have ever seen them make (shield cast time), then sorcs need three things immediately. Removal of the stack cost associated with Streak (never should have been there in the first place), access to snare removal to one of their native skills (streak or boundless seem to be most obvious), and a reliable burst heal that doesnt involve a cast time (dark conversion) or being double barred (twilight).

Sorcs at this point have no reliable means of immediate Defense. Shields, DC, and Twilight all effectively have a delay, and lets be honest, almost nobody wants to run a pet in PVP.

NuarBlack

Not bad as it would benefit medium armor stam sorc potentially as well that don't use 2h or shuffle cause of lack of bar space. And considering how mistform isn't OP cause you still get gap closed to death I don't see it being OP either.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

NuarBlack wrote: »

Not bad as it would benefit medium armor stam sorc potentially as well that don't use 2h or shuffle cause of lack of bar space. And considering how mistform isn't OP cause you still get gap closed to death I don't see it being OP either.

If anything in this game needs a stack cost, its gap closers.

NuarBlack

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Not bad as it would benefit medium armor stam sorc potentially as well that don't use 2h or shuffle cause of lack of bar space. And considering how mistform isn't OP cause you still get gap closed to death I don't see it being OP either.

If anything in this game needs a stack cost, its gap closers.

Yeah no idea why streak and dodge roll got it but gap closers didn't. Outside of cyro zergs, melee rules pvp, especially if the shield cast time goes into play. Dedicated bow pvp has been garbage forever since snipe is such a garbage spammable and dodge roll gains you nothing since you just get gap closed. Ranged casters will be in the same boat soon.

PathwayM

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If they actually plan to continue with the dumbest F'ing change I have ever seen them make (shield cast time), then sorcs need three things immediately. Removal of the stack cost associated with Streak (never should have been there in the first place), access to snare removal to one of their native skills (streak or boundless seem to be most obvious), and a reliable burst heal that doesnt involve a cast time (dark conversion) or being double barred (twilight).

Sorcs at this point have no reliable means of immediate Defense. Shields, DC, and Twilight all effectively have a delay, and lets be honest, almost nobody wants to run a pet in PVP.

Honestly I think I could get along just fine with healing ward if sorc was granted a source of snare/root immunity.

Mintaka5

Not the best solution but helps recover faster from stuns. I find it useful

PathwayM

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Not the best solution but helps recover faster from stuns. I find it useful

Radiant magelight doesn't help vs things like petrify and dizzying swing which is more the point I was getting at. Many melee classes have a hard stun, snare, and sometimes even a root. The cast time on shields makes it extremely hard for even the best magsorc to survive against 2+ enemies. It's also noticeably more difficult vs just 1 enemy.

Galarthor

flacidstone wrote: »

What’s a Sorc?

A crafter! He can build you stuff that you need!

PathwayM

Galarthor wrote: »

flacidstone wrote: »

What’s a Sorc?

A crafter! He can build you stuff that you need!

Lol

Zatox

we can have streak nerf next

PathwayM

Zatox wrote: »

we can have streak nerf next

Why? Lol

ellahellabella

I've been saying since wings got the snare immunity that sorcs should have some snare immunity themselves.
Zos have shown that they are willing to make tweaks with skills to address snares so I think streak should get the 2 seconds of snare immunity too...

PathwayM

ellahellabella wrote: »

I've been saying since wings got the snare immunity that sorcs should have some snare immunity themselves.
Zos have shown that they are willing to make tweaks with skills to address snares so I think streak should get the 2 seconds of snare immunity too...

Honestly I think it would be most balanced as 4sec on lighting form to also benefit stamsorc build diversity.

Solariken

I support a root/snare purge only for Streak, not immunity. Streak will get you out of any AoE snares anyway so the immunity is overkill IMO.

ak_pvp

No more snare immunity. I don't think anything should have immunity to it, though snares are a pain.

Streak having a removal only makes sense. Can't hold lighting. It does the job getting you out of the area (AoE, root or something) then and allows you to run until you are held.

SmackNCheese

Honestly, as someone who's played sorc for quite a while, snare removal would make sorc busted. Wouldn't matter with the shield changes because the way to pressure a sorc has always been to pressure their stamina bar, and giving them a way to remove those snares reliably and to give them immunity from snares would be insane. The other things mentioned above such as removing the stacking streak cost, giving burst sorc heal, and perhaps adding minor protection to boundless (Much like wardens) I think would be compensation buffs.

brandonv516

4s snare immunity on casting Empowered Ward.

smacx250

flacidstone wrote: »

What’s a Sorc?

As of PTS - the guy who goes and takes a dump as soon as he get pressured.

ccmedaddy

While I'm sympathetic to the idea that Sorcs should receive a major buff to compensate for ZOS's recent butchering of the class, I don't think snare immunity is the right call here. If you're gonna give a ranged, mobile class snare immunity, then what about other classes that don't even have tools like Streak to escape, like Warden or Templar?

OGLezard

flacidstone wrote: »

What’s a Sorc?

The only class I ever played since beta and am now going to let collect dust for the firs time as I go play destiny 2....

...that's right, I'm that upset with this insane change that i would rather play destiny 2 lol

PathwayM

Solariken wrote: »

I support a root/snare purge only for Streak, not immunity. Streak will get you out of any AoE snares anyway so the immunity is overkill IMO.

ak_pvp wrote: »

No more snare immunity. I don't think anything should have immunity to it, though snares are a pain.

Streak having a removal only makes sense. Can't hold lighting. It does the job getting you out of the area (AoE, root or something) then and allows you to run until you are held.

SmackNCheese wrote: »

Honestly, as someone who's played sorc for quite a while, snare removal would make sorc busted. Wouldn't matter with the shield changes because the way to pressure a sorc has always been to pressure their stamina bar, and giving them a way to remove those snares reliably and to give them immunity from snares would be insane. The other things mentioned above such as removing the stacking streak cost, giving burst sorc heal, and perhaps adding minor protection to boundless (Much like wardens) I think would be compensation buffs.

The above quoted comments are only referring to the situation where the sorc is running from a fight, this is not the scenario I am trying to describe. Take the scenario where you want to fight and actually kill 2+ people at once. Without any form of immunity, you still face the same situation that dk wings did before they introduced a form of immunity to it. Repeated snares are easy to apply and the whole point is to allow a class to have the ability to remain ranged through their tools if played correctly.

ccmedaddy wrote: »

While I'm sympathetic to the idea that Sorcs should receive a major buff to compensate for ZOS's recent butchering of the class, I don't think snare immunity is the right call here. If you're gonna give a ranged, mobile class snare immunity, then what about other classes that don't even have tools like Streak to escape, like Warden or Templar?

Magicka templars have the single best purge in the game which also purges roots and snares, extended ritual. Wardens however could also benefit from some kind of reliable way to have snare removal as well, but they also have a much better ability to hold their ground with class based burst heals and viable heavy armor setups. They would also have a huge reduction in root/snare duration if they ran light armor combined with their class passives next patch. Not to mention they also have one of the best defensive skills in the game in the form of shimmering shield.

SmackNCheese

PathwayM wrote: »

Take the scenario where you want to fight and actually kill 2+ people at once. Without any form of immunity, you still face the same situation that dk wings did before they introduced a form of immunity to it. Repeated snares are easy to apply and the whole point is to allow a class to have the ability to remain ranged through their tools if played correctly.

The major difference between dk and magicka sorc is that a lot of dk's harder hitting abilities require melee range so easily reapplied snares could provide so much safety. Most if not all of magicka sorcerers damage is ranged so not the same circumstances. As I mentioned above giving sorcs a snare immunity would give us too much mobility that didn't come at a cost. As of now sorcs have to play very carefully around fights to make sure they wont get entrapped, so that mobility requires a decent amount of thinking. With an immunity we'd be free to streak in with no regards to a path out, pop an immunity and escape.

Chilly-McFreeze

SmackNCheese wrote: »

PathwayM wrote: »

Take the scenario where you want to fight and actually kill 2+ people at once. Without any form of immunity, you still face the same situation that dk wings did before they introduced a form of immunity to it. Repeated snares are easy to apply and the whole point is to allow a class to have the ability to remain ranged through their tools if played correctly.

The major difference between dk and magicka sorc is that a lot of dk's harder hitting abilities require melee range so easily reapplied snares could provide so much safety. Most if not all of magicka sorcerers damage is ranged so not the same circumstances. As I mentioned above giving sorcs a snare immunity would give us too much mobility that didn't come at a cost. As of now sorcs have to play very carefully around fights to make sure they wont get entrapped, so that mobility requires a decent amount of thinking. With an immunity we'd be free to streak in with no regards to a path out, pop an immunity and escape.

By very carefully you mean staying in 28-23m range and hope the swift wearing opponent doesn't make a step forward so he can gap closer spam you? Once into melee range, you really have to face an unexperienced opponent to be able to flee from his gap closer.

And with "mobility that didn't come at a cost" you ignore that, if it's e.g. on streak, his removal skill would have stacking costs and therefor can't be spammed? It's not like snare removal is only on bad skills right now. Every other removal skill has something else to offer, be it major evasion, a hot or reflects.

Did you not only forgot about gap closers but also ignored the existence of ranged stuns, roots, snares or simply ranged damage.

Right now it's much harder to stay at range/ kite (not in the sense of tree hugging) than it is to come close.

A few weeks ago there was a post about how easy it is for nightblades to escape via shades. One of the posters made a very good point:

Killset wrote: »

I think everyone is missing the actual point. You feel you are entitled to “secure the kill against a competent NB player.” You are not. There are a lot of powerful escape mechanics in this game and I for one am glad for it. PvP would suck if death were a forgone conclusion the split second a bigger group, better player, better build, whatever, layed eyes on you.

Why should only NB be able to pull stuff like this off?

Zoal_AUG

This is maybe first good idea that i heared lately not just raging qq threads trying to proove that sorcs are underpowered and will die. I agree with this since shields require cast time u could play around with mobility by having snare removal also as i saw new light armor passives reduce cost of spring and cost of breaking free.

red_emu

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