Warhorn nerf = it no longer gives Minor Toughness - is this good?

shaielzafine

Alliance War
Assault
War Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.

For PVE, what do you guys think about losing the Minor Toughness buff (Increase Max Health by 10% from Warhorn?
Do we need to run 1 warden in all trials now or is the extra 10% health no big deal?

Personally, I don't like the nerf to warhorn even if it buffs my warden healer. The extra 10% health won't be needed if the group is not doing progression and the healers are on point. I feel like this was just a lazy choice to nerf warhorn, and warden could've gotten either a different unique buff or a buff to their burst heals.

exeeter702

Very good change. Should have been this way when wardens were added to the game initially.

Those selection minor buffs were and always have been specifically designed to incentivize class representation in group makeups. Warden was unfairly the odd man out.

And quite frankly, warhorn was used for damage pushes mainly. Its ultimately inconsequential. If the minor toughness was weighted along side the ult cost of warhorn, you could make an argument the price of warhorn now, but that creates other issues with overly generous uptime.

Onefrkncrzypope

It's a lazy way of "including" warden healers but just pop a off tank warden with Vines boop no need for warden heals.... It's the same reason no mDK DPS is in group for engulfing...

VaranisArano

Its only a nerf if you don't have a warden in your group...

FrancisCrawford

All the offensive Warhorn buffs were left in.

Besides, health buffs are of little value unless the uptime is 100%.

Tasear

While concerning personally how this will work out this is a concern warden healers mentioned to reps. Also minor toughess allowed for this ultimate to used offensively and defensively.

Now the questions I have to ask are how are the ultimates. Do they feel like you can use other ultimates? Do you feel any concerns with wardens having minor toughess? How will this affect things?

Silver_Strider

I want Warhorn to die entirely. So sick of using it in Trials on my Tanks/Healers that any nerf to it is greatly welcomed.

FrancisCrawford

Tasear wrote: »

While concerning personally how this will work out this is a concern warden healers mentioned to reps. Also minor toughess allowed for this morph to used offensively and defensively.

Now the questions I have to ask are how are the ultimates. Do they feel like you can use other ultimates? Do you feel any concerns with wardens having minor toughess? How will this affect things?

I rarely use Warhorn when PUGging dungeons, because group DPS isn't high enough to excite me about a percentage buff.

Jhalin

1 ghost vAA strat is going in the bin unless all the MagPlars use Nova

MehrunesFlagon

I honestly don't even notice it.

WrathOfInnos

Pointless, Warden tanks and healers have always been accepted builds that bring unique buffs like Frost Cloak. It’s Warden DPS that added nothing to the group (no minor sorcery, prophecy, intellect, engulfing flames etc.) and therefore were not desirable in optimized groups. I’m not sure if the problem was entirely misunderstood or just terribly miscommunicated.

But sure, why not slap a big survivability nerf to groups that are trying to run something non-META like a Sorc healer or a Templar tank. This patch is so far from what I expected it to be...

Woeler

Yay for a unique buff behind a paywall /s

Dymence

Terrible change imo.

How about giving wardens something else, something new, or just actually making them a good class to DD on in PVE? How about that? Rather than taking away from the existing war horn and make us begrudgingly take wardens into raids or not even bother?

nemvar

They should just give wardens minor courage. Would solve most issues.

Badger_Dan_Man

Who cares - no trial group will have any increased preference to use Wardens just for the Minor Toughness buff. Warhorns are used for the Major Force buff. Warden PvE DPS will continue to be a joke.

Erraln

It's like they can't give something without taking something away elsewhere.

Y'all remember when they fixed synergies after years of buggy behavior, and the initial PTS version made them *less available* at the same time? Because a working feature was considered too much of a buff?

They backed off on that one, thankfully, but the pattern seems to be on display with these Minor Buff changes.

Kolzki

Does this make warden DD’s more desirable? How much of a trial group can they give the buff to by off healing?

James-Wayne

Great change!

shaielzafine

Badger_Dan_Man wrote: »

Who cares - no trial group will have any increased preference to use Wardens just for the Minor Toughness buff. Warhorns are used for the Major Force buff. Warden PvE DPS will continue to be a joke.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Pointless, Warden tanks and healers have always been accepted builds that bring unique buffs like Frost Cloak. It’s Warden DPS that added nothing to the group (no minor sorcery, prophecy, intellect, engulfing flames etc.) and therefore were not desirable in optimized groups. I’m not sure if the problem was entirely misunderstood or just terribly miscommunicated.

But sure, why not slap a big survivability nerf to groups that are trying to run something non-META like a Sorc healer or a Templar tank. This patch is so far from what I expected it to be...

Yeah, that's true. It's used for the offensive buff. The little bit of survivability lost makes non-meta builds like sorc healer & nb healer less desirable, but it also doesn't make people want wardens in group that much. I don't think the extra health is a big deal once you're done progressing on a trial, and your healers are already on point. I agree it's weird because a warden dps will still not bring anything unique to the group.

BrokenGameMechanics

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

All the offensive Warhorn buffs were left in.

Besides, health buffs are of little value unless the uptime is 100%.

Seems effectively achievable given -

Maturation: The Minor Toughness granted by this passive now applies even if the target was completely over-healed, and its duration has been increased to 10/20 seconds from 5/10 seconds.

So, if 'even if completely over-healed' includes healing someone at 100% health then a magica Warden casting Enchanted Growth, 20 meters cone, any target healed gains Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance, increasing their Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 10% for 20 seconds, and now add on Minor Toughness.

So fairly close to offering Healing and 3 Minors, Intellect, Endurance and Toughness via a single skill cast that can cover most of the group with close to effective 100% uptime. Depending on the interpretationof "even if completely over-healed" Toughness could be true 100% uptime. Anyone on PTS know?

SilverWF

shaielzafine wrote: »

Alliance War
Assault
War Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.

For PVE, what do you guys think about losing the Minor Toughness buff (Increase Max Health by 10% from Warhorn?
Do we need to run 1 warden in all trials now or is the extra 10% health no big deal?

Personally, I don't like the nerf to warhorn even if it buffs my warden healer. The extra 10% health won't be needed if the group is not doing progression and the healers are on point. I feel like this was just a lazy choice to nerf warhorn, and warden could've gotten either a different unique buff or a buff to their burst heals.

For me it's better if they will just remove Mehdens from the game rather than Minor Toug from the Horn ><

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Woeler wrote: »

Yay for a unique buff behind a paywall /s

Now you have to update your video on warrior poet set lol. kinda not behind a paywall.