Why you need to ruin dodge AND blade cloak

MartiniDaniels

Why? I simply don't see any reason, there was no any imbalance or anything. Dodge was good for chars who often get hit (i.e nb tanks/hybrids), and blade cloak was good for stamdps, because they are fragile and 25% aoe protection was notable upon other weak resistances. Now it becomes nearly useless for dual wield dps and just boring (and of course useless) aoe mitigation for non-meta tanks... It was such fun when boss missed HA on you and now it's just plain useless few % of damage mitigation upon 33k res, block and others..
If you want to move aoe% to tanks then make it working as sum to all your mitigation and not (1-/100)%.

Given damage shield nerf, I guess your intention is to ruin survival mechanics for 90% of playerbase giving nothing in return. What's the point, ZOS?

sharquez

Passive dodge was bull and everyone knew it. These effects i think are much better as you mitigate the damage you can't dodge and still can roll around like sonic the hedgehog and get rewarded for it.

VaranisArano

The point?

ZOS wants dodge to be active, not passive. Of course you didnt have a problem in PVE, its not like you hear Molag Kena complaining "ZOS, these players keep dodging my attacks!"

ZOS thinks damage shields makes PVE healers useless everyone complains about damage shields in PVP. Okay, sure, they say its for healers, but its a PVP change primarily.

max_only

No.

Hist Bark is newb tanking 101. There is nothing you can say that justifies this.

Nocturnal Favor set? Dead.

Deceptive Predator (warden wings)? Dead. Because you know how op Wardens are lol

Lower Mirage numbers if that was the problem but kill it? No.

Pvp people are selfish af. There are people who use Evasion as a support in Pve, who are they? Everyone who isn’t a dk tank.

Tanking is now dead for everyone.

You want less tanks in queue? Because this is how you get less tanks.

max_only

Minor/Major Evasion: These buffs no longer grant a passive chance to dodge. They now reduce the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 5/25%. All abilities that previously granted Minor or Major Evasion have been converted to this new effect, and the Blade Cloak ability now grants Major Evasion.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This change affects the abilities Blur, Evasion, Deceptive Predator, Gossamer, Grace of Gloom, Adept Rider, Hist Bark, and Spectre’s Eye.

As noted above, we spent time fixing issues with dodge, with the goal of making sure that you only dodge abilities/projectiles when you are actually actively dodging. Passive dodge goes against that, so we removed it from the game.

So what they just admitted to was they couldn’t fix it so they removed it. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot you guys. this is so wrong.

Defilted

So the way it works now..

Ranged attacker using a ranged ability Target

Target dodges rolls

At the same time another ranged attacker is starting its cast and lets it fly

target dodges becasue it just dodged rolled

With the changes
Now that second attacker is going to land the hit on the target if the target does not see it and dodge roll again right away


If this is how it will work in the future I do not see much issue here(I play a Stam Sorc), but again I have not seen any tests on the PTS. This is just speculating.


Will be interesting to see this change in action. I assume it will not be as bad as everyone thinks.


Another way this could be done is instead of changing the timing of when you need to roll Change how many attacks can be dodged with each dodge roll like wings reflects projectiles. So each dodge roll can dodge 1 - 10 attacks within 1 second or something like that..

Turelus

Dodge without active input is a bad mechanic in any game.

max_only wrote: »

Minor/Major Evasion: These buffs no longer grant a passive chance to dodge. They now reduce the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 5/25%. All abilities that previously granted Minor or Major Evasion have been converted to this new effect, and the Blade Cloak ability now grants Major Evasion.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This change affects the abilities Blur, Evasion, Deceptive Predator, Gossamer, Grace of Gloom, Adept Rider, Hist Bark, and Spectre’s Eye.

As noted above, we spent time fixing issues with dodge, with the goal of making sure that you only dodge abilities/projectiles when you are actually actively dodging. Passive dodge goes against that, so we removed it from the game.

So what they just admitted to was they couldn’t fix it so they removed it. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot you guys. this is so wrong.

I think the point was they didn't want a push button (or wear set) receive chance to negate attacks 15% if the time. They want you to actively look and act in order to dodge an attack.

Sergykid

max_only wrote: »

[...] There are people who use Evasion as a support in Pve, who are they? Everyone who isn’t a dk tank.

Tanking is now dead for everyone. [...]

sorry but top build didn't even include having major evasion. Look at Torug's + Alkosh or Ebon. Sets like Hist Bark were for beginners. I don't even see how luck can make you tankier. If you can't take a heavy attack to the face as a tank and you have to rely on that 15% chance for boss to dodge it, i don't even know what kind of tank u are.

sneakymitchell

max_only wrote: »

No.

Hist Bark is newb tanking 101. There is nothing you can say that justifies this.

Nocturnal Favor set? Dead.

Deceptive Predator (warden wings)? Dead. Because you know how op Wardens are lol

Lower Mirage numbers if that was the problem but kill it? No.

Pvp people are selfish af. There are people who use Evasion as a support in Pve, who are they? Everyone who isn’t a dk tank.

Tanking is now dead for everyone.

You want less tanks in queue? Because this is how you get less tanks.

I been getting tanks in queue for a while. And also don’t forget tanks get resistance in thier damage shield so that means more unkillable in 40k or so health. And some tanks can reduce thier health for the damage shield tweak. That means tank can do other things like give more healing, DPS, and synergy.

max_only

Turelus wrote: »

Dodge without active input is a bad mechanic in any game.

max_only wrote: »

Minor/Major Evasion: These buffs no longer grant a passive chance to dodge. They now reduce the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 5/25%. All abilities that previously granted Minor or Major Evasion have been converted to this new effect, and the Blade Cloak ability now grants Major Evasion.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This change affects the abilities Blur, Evasion, Deceptive Predator, Gossamer, Grace of Gloom, Adept Rider, Hist Bark, and Spectre’s Eye.

As noted above, we spent time fixing issues with dodge, with the goal of making sure that you only dodge abilities/projectiles when you are actually actively dodging. Passive dodge goes against that, so we removed it from the game.

So what they just admitted to was they couldn’t fix it so they removed it. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot you guys. this is so wrong.

I think the point was they didn't want a push button (or wear set) receive chance to negate attacks 15% if the time. They want you to actively look and act in order to dodge an attack.

So where is the compensation for tanks? Tanks can’t be rolling around. We can’t perma block. we can’t waste stamina on rolling around and even if we could we need to stand still for the team. Changing it to less AOE damage is useful how? No this is a bs move to benefit pvp whiners. They aren’t looking at the big picture, at the people who use these sets.

Jinchuu

Turelus wrote: »

I think the point was they didn't want a push button (or wear set) receive chance to negate attacks 15% if the time. They want you to actively look and act in order to dodge an attack.

So why not apply that very same "logic" to sets that offer sustain, CC etc.?

Take damage and get healed... nah son you need to active heal

Take/deal dmg and apply CC... nah son you need to actively apply that CC

Apply an effect in a certain area... nah son you need to activate that



Anyone who buys into their so-called reasoning behind these changes is delusional.

MartiniDaniels

VaranisArano wrote: »

The point?

ZOS wants dodge to be active, not passive. Of course you didnt have a problem in PVE, its not like you hear Molag Kena complaining "ZOS, these players keep dodging my attacks!"

ZOS thinks damage shields makes PVE healers useless everyone complains about damage shields in PVP. Okay, sure, they say its for healers, but its a PVP change primarily.

Ok, active dodge, I'll tell you about that. I just get use to their nocturnal set and tested it a lot and I may tell that only time when dodge roll is counted as dodge (and so set shows heal animation) is when you roll dodge just a moment before hit is landing upon you. This time window is comparable to lag on European server. Roll-dodged HA not in it's last moment? No, it is not counted as dodge.. aoe dodge.. of course this is not a dodge.. light attack dodge from roll-dodge is something like a pure luck. So it is still random as hell. And some randomness (15% is just right) is always good.. telling about randomness in PVP.. then they must change all monster helm bonuses, all set bonuses that have 8-10% chance to tirigger, they are all game of luck, given small pool of HP in PVP?

They simply want to shake up non-meta so everyone will went to strict roles-classes and then die from boredom. Ok, let's everyone be argonian tank-dks, breton magplar-healers, redguard stamblades and high elf magblades.

Ok, maybe i'm not so experienced in ESO (half-year and 450 cp) but all good changes are evolutionary and not revolutionary and this revolution will leave community in confused state.. and what we have instead of taken from us?

At least they should introduce normal dodge then.. i.e. you press Alt button in right moment and any non-aoe hit is missed, and of course for free without stamina cost - then it will be a revolution and now it's just a RUINING and SHAKEDOWN..

Argh, I guess I just won't prolong my ESO+ and go play something else waiting when they will roll-out meta which I might like.

Silver_Strider

RIP NB Tava Tanks.
Guess I'll deconstruct my Tava's tonight seeing how I will never need it again. Oh well, my NB tank will be tankier now so I can't really complain over this.

susmitds

Dodge 15% helped NB tanking. It was unique to NB tanking, of course they would remove it. They want to shoehorn NBs to DPSing.

Turelus

max_only wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Dodge without active input is a bad mechanic in any game.

max_only wrote: »

Minor/Major Evasion: These buffs no longer grant a passive chance to dodge. They now reduce the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 5/25%. All abilities that previously granted Minor or Major Evasion have been converted to this new effect, and the Blade Cloak ability now grants Major Evasion.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This change affects the abilities Blur, Evasion, Deceptive Predator, Gossamer, Grace of Gloom, Adept Rider, Hist Bark, and Spectre’s Eye.

As noted above, we spent time fixing issues with dodge, with the goal of making sure that you only dodge abilities/projectiles when you are actually actively dodging. Passive dodge goes against that, so we removed it from the game.

So what they just admitted to was they couldn’t fix it so they removed it. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot you guys. this is so wrong.

I think the point was they didn't want a push button (or wear set) receive chance to negate attacks 15% if the time. They want you to actively look and act in order to dodge an attack.

So where is the compensation for tanks? Tanks can’t be rolling around. We can’t perma block. we can’t waste stamina on rolling around and even if we could we need to stand still for the team. Changing it to less AOE damage is useful how? No this is a bs move to benefit pvp whiners. They aren’t looking at the big picture, at the people who use these sets.

There are plenty of tank builds which don't utilise dodge and seem to complete all the content fine. It was one build which got changed.
Generally you shouldn't die to any AoE as a tank unless it's a specific oneshot mechanic.

sneakymitchell

max_only wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Dodge without active input is a bad mechanic in any game.

max_only wrote: »

Minor/Major Evasion: These buffs no longer grant a passive chance to dodge. They now reduce the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 5/25%. All abilities that previously granted Minor or Major Evasion have been converted to this new effect, and the Blade Cloak ability now grants Major Evasion.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This change affects the abilities Blur, Evasion, Deceptive Predator, Gossamer, Grace of Gloom, Adept Rider, Hist Bark, and Spectre’s Eye.

As noted above, we spent time fixing issues with dodge, with the goal of making sure that you only dodge abilities/projectiles when you are actually actively dodging. Passive dodge goes against that, so we removed it from the game.

So what they just admitted to was they couldn’t fix it so they removed it. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot you guys. this is so wrong.

I think the point was they didn't want a push button (or wear set) receive chance to negate attacks 15% if the time. They want you to actively look and act in order to dodge an attack.

So where is the compensation for tanks? Tanks can’t be rolling around. We can’t perma block. we can’t waste stamina on rolling around and even if we could we need to stand still for the team. Changing it to less AOE damage is useful how? No this is a bs move to benefit pvp whiners. They aren’t looking at the big picture, at the people who use these sets.

Then add more stam and less health. If you use a damage shield you still get good tankness. Think damage shield another source of health. That’s what ZOS is pulling.

MartiniDaniels

Sergykid wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

[...] There are people who use Evasion as a support in Pve, who are they? Everyone who isn’t a dk tank.

Tanking is now dead for everyone. [...]

sorry but top build didn't even include having major evasion. Look at Torug's + Alkosh or Ebon. Sets like Hist Bark were for beginners. I don't even see how luck can make you tankier. If you can't take a heavy attack to the face as a tank and you have to rely on that 15% chance for boss to dodge it, i don't even know what kind of tank u are.

Those 15% is your sustain window, alternative way to play a game.

Komma

This and the damage shield changes (other than the cast time on the light armor one) are the best thing in the patch. Totally support the long overdue changes.

max_only

Sergykid wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

[...] There are people who use Evasion as a support in Pve, who are they? Everyone who isn’t a dk tank.

Tanking is now dead for everyone. [...]

sorry but top build didn't even include having major evasion. Look at Torug's + Alkosh or Ebon. Sets like Hist Bark were for beginners. I don't even see how luck can make you tankier. If you can't take a heavy attack to the face as a tank and you have to rely on that 15% chance for boss to dodge it, i don't even know what kind of tank u are.

Saptank. Zos claimed they wanted build diversity remember? We aren’t all Dks.

Also yes, Hist Bark is for beginners. Why make the entry to tanking harder? What is the reason? That role is already thankless and plagued with fakers trying to skip the DD queue.

sneakymitchell wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

No.

Hist Bark is newb tanking 101. There is nothing you can say that justifies this.

Nocturnal Favor set? Dead.

Deceptive Predator (warden wings)? Dead. Because you know how op Wardens are lol

Lower Mirage numbers if that was the problem but kill it? No.

Pvp people are selfish af. There are people who use Evasion as a support in Pve, who are they? Everyone who isn’t a dk tank.

Tanking is now dead for everyone.

You want less tanks in queue? Because this is how you get less tanks.

I been getting tanks in queue for a while. And also don’t forget tanks get resistance in thier damage shield so that means more unkillable in 40k or so health. And some tanks can reduce thier health for the damage shield tweak. That means tank can do other things like give more healing, DPS, and synergy.

What tank class have you been getting in queue?
Also, if you’ve been around you’ve surely seen thread after thread on fake tanks in the queue. I could link them all.

sneakymitchell

@max_only I’m getting tanks with 40k and know what they are doing and I’m doing old dailies.
Tanks probably que up for dailies and some que for daily random duegeon reward.

Jinchuu

Komma wrote: »

This and the damage shield changes (other than the cast time on the light armor one) are the best thing in the patch. Totally support the long overdue changes.

*Has 160 CP

*Claims changes are long overdue

You obviously know so much with your 1 week of ESO experience

ccfeeling

Zos gj, you guys killed NB tank again.

Malamar1229

Silly nightblades, nerfs are for sorcs

max_only

Sergykid wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

[...] There are people who use Evasion as a support in Pve, who are they? Everyone who isn’t a dk tank.

Tanking is now dead for everyone. [...]

sorry but top build didn't even include having major evasion. Look at Torug's + Alkosh or Ebon. Sets like Hist Bark were for beginners. I don't even see how luck can make you tankier. If you can't take a heavy attack to the face as a tank and you have to rely on that 15% chance for boss to dodge it, i don't even know what kind of tank u are.

I forgot how new tanks get trial equipment mailed to them the minute they hit cp160. Cmon dude.

Why do you think making the entry level to this thankless role harder to obtain is good? Every dodge is a learning moment for new tanks. Especially those that don’t have all the health increase passives yet and don’t have all the defensive cps maxed yet. The majority of the game isn’t played at cp 810.

Why do you think it’s good that every single tank has to run those sets and only those sets? Tanks are not buff slaves.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435187/are-there-diversity-in-tank-builds#latest

WreckfulAbandon

The new Evasion is actually overtuned, it cuts down massively on the main damage skills of 2 classes (Templar+Warden)

Know who it doesn't hurt and actually helps a bunch? Starts with an "N," ends with a "B."

Sergykid

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

The new Evasion is actually overtuned, it cuts down massively on the main damage skills of 2 classes (Templar+Warden)

Know who it doesn't hurt and actually helps a bunch? Starts with an "N," ends with a "B."

never heard of nightbladeb.

and wait ... anyone with major evasion now will take 25% less damage taken from jabs or sweeps ... ?

max_only

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@max_only I’m getting tanks with 40k and know what they are doing and I’m doing old dailies.
Tanks probably que up for dailies and some que for daily random duegeon reward.

Okay so I need to link all the threads that show your luck in the queue isn’t the standard.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/433185/fake-tanks/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/434071/what-defines-a-tank-in-the-group-finder-personal-story/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/398353/something-needs-to-be-done-about-this-fake-tank-crap/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/431244/dear-random-pugs-stop-blaming-tanks-and-being-abusive-to-us-in-random-cues/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427546/how-do-you-handle-fake-tanks/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427170/how-often-do-you-get-fake-tanks-in-pugs/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422656/fake-tank-or-fake-healer-which-is-best/p1

Splattercat_83

sneakymitchell wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

No.

Hist Bark is newb tanking 101. There is nothing you can say that justifies this.

Nocturnal Favor set? Dead.

Deceptive Predator (warden wings)? Dead. Because you know how op Wardens are lol

Lower Mirage numbers if that was the problem but kill it? No.

Pvp people are selfish af. There are people who use Evasion as a support in Pve, who are they? Everyone who isn’t a dk tank.

Tanking is now dead for everyone.

You want less tanks in queue? Because this is how you get less tanks.

I been getting tanks in queue for a while. And also don’t forget tanks get resistance in thier damage shield so that means more unkillable in 40k or so health. And some tanks can reduce thier health for the damage shield tweak. That means tank can do other things like give more healing, DPS, and synergy.

It's not a tanks job to heal, it's not a tanks job to dps, and the synergies that a tank will give will be on cool down with a healer shards and orbs.

max_only

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

The new Evasion is actually overtuned, it cuts down massively on the main damage skills of 2 classes (Templar+Warden)

Know who it doesn't hurt and actually helps a bunch? Starts with an "N," ends with a "B."

I’m glad your signature says “all my comments are regarding pvp”. Doesn’t show up in mobile jsyk

Jameliel

Jinchuu wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I think the point was they didn't want a push button (or wear set) receive chance to negate attacks 15% if the time. They want you to actively look and act in order to dodge an attack.

So why not apply that very same "logic" to sets that offer sustain, CC etc.?

Take damage and get healed... nah son you need to active heal

Take/deal dmg and apply CC... nah son you need to actively apply that CC

Apply an effect in a certain area... nah son you need to activate that



Anyone who buys into their so-called reasoning behind these changes is delusional.

This. From my viewpoint, they change things randomly like fools. How about improving the dozens of garbage sets in game? How about fixing the numerous bugs, and responding to players who ask about the bugs?

Here on the forums, why ignore most queries, but almost instantly message people and send weird random accusations when they post something a staff member doesn't like? z0$ has serious problems with their employees. The lack of integrity, quality and quality control is apparent at every level of this company.

Kadoin

Sorry, I won't be missing passive dodge. I can even agree to the shield changes to some extent, the only problem is that we all know damage will rise and heavy armor will be the only option to defend against it unless they add something more to both medium and light. There already is little reason to run medium and light if you know how to sustain in heavy...at least in PvP.