PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for Dragonknights. Please read through all the changes in the patch notes and try them out on the PTS before providing feedback in this thread. Thank you!

venomsky

ty for nothing!

Sigtric

Someone holler at me when combat team seems to have a clue about this class.

CrazYDunm3r

Hey, atleast we have a few extra meters for our abilities... Thanks ZOS... Thank you.... Nothing else was needed

TrinityBreaker

Wow, you change a WHOLE passive to reduce the cost of the class WHOLE 2 STAMINA ABILITIES. I cant. I really can not understand the combat team's thought process for this class.


Guess my stam DK(s) will still be on the shelf until next patch.

venomsky

now my venomous claw is super cheap it used to drain my stamina alot!!! ty wrobel!!
so with new changes to evasion stamnb and stamden can out tank and out dps DK's zos combat team rocks!!

LeifErickson

8 meter talons! (Did I do the math right?)

But not happy about the cost to power lash. Either remove the cost or make it undodgeable again (please).

Edit: looks like talons didn't get a range increase so I guess we got a slight buff with embers and eruption and a sustain nerf....

PureEnvelope35

In terms of the nerf to power lash, with the stun removed, can we at least have it undodgable again?

Toraf

Except the good Eruption change, Words cannot describe how disappointed I'm.

Sigtric

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Wow, you change a WHOLE passive to reduce the cost of the class WHOLE 2 STAMINA ABILITIES. I cant. I really can not understand the combat team's thought process for this class.


Guess my stam DK(s) will still be on the shelf until next patch.

It's the lack of a thought process. At least not any that I can identify. Eruption change is the only good thing in the list and the rest of it just seems weird if not just blatantly un-thoughtful.

LonePirate

Let’s see if I have this right.

My whip - the primary DK damage skill - loses three meters of range but gains two back from Elder Dragon resulting in a net range loss of 12.5%. In addition to that, I have lost a stun and the skill costs have increased by as much as 50%.

ZOS, I think I speak for many or most (all?) DKs when I say just delete the class and save us any future torture. With each update since May 2014, you have completely hobbled this once fine warrior class into a relative weakling in Tamriel. It’s like the transformation scene in Captain America: The First Avenger except you’re playing it backwards for DKs as they once were mighty Captain Americas but are now 90 pound weakling Steve Rogers.

I’m not sure if it is Rich or Matt or Eric or someone else but somebody at ZOS hates DKs with an intense passion I have not seen anywhere else in this game.

Kanar

Does the World in Ruin stamina cost reduction apply to only class poison skills, or all skills? (Like bow lethal arrow and poison injection). Note wording is vague about that.

Moglijuana

I'm honestly confused on where you guys come up with the decisions to continually destroy dks lol. Like seriously, who does your combat testing? A potato?

The_Lex

They need to assign this class to 1 or 2 developers. These developers should then be required to make the DK their main and play it "x" number of hours in PvE and PvP. It's the only way they could fully appreciate the impact of these changes (or lack thereof).

Clearly, no one in ZOS has a vision for what this class is supposed to be. The class, especially stam, has zero identity, outside of tank that is.

StShoot

Yey Mag dk got ****** again, why am i not wondering ?

Just curios now that the power lash morph costs 1050 magica, will we atleast see a buff for it, like a cooldown reduction ? You know like you did to assasins will with the two stacs per heavy attack ?

And what about a change that fixes the bug that you just can walk out of the leap?

I guess the ash cloud dmg buff is nice for pve so thank you for that one.

venomsky

i dont think that zos doing any combat tests..... stamdk now best snipe spamming class!

StShoot

venomsky wrote: »

i dont think that zos doing any combat tests..... stamdk now best snipe spamming class!

Why? its a ranged ability with cast time, the buff is only for melee abilitys with insant cast

NBrookus

Power Lash (morph): The Power Lash special attack is no longer free, and now costs half the amount of a regular Flame Lash.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This puts the ability on par with other types of proc abilities, such as Crystal Frags.

So a 50% cost increase for an ability which does 15% more damage AND has a cooldown? Power Lash needs a damage buff with these changes, or else the cooldown removed. It is much easier to get a Crystal Frag proc than it is to set up a Power Lash.

Spiked Armor

Hardened Armor (morph): Increased the duration of the damage shield from this morph to 6 seconds from 2.5 seconds.

I realize this is probably an desire to normalize shields and isn't intended as a buff per se, but this morph needs a buff. The shield is too small to withstand more than a single hit anyway; 6 seconds is never going to exist as a shield and isn't really long enough to pre-cast. Can we please get Minor Evasion or something with this morph?

Chilly-McFreeze

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Wow, you change a WHOLE passive to reduce the cost of the class WHOLE 2 STAMINA ABILITIES. I cant. I really can not understand the combat team's thought process for this class.


Guess my stam DK(s) will still be on the shelf until next patch.

"reduces the Stamina cost of all Poison abilities"

Does it only affect class abilities or every poison ability? Okay, wouldn't make much difference anyway bc it's only two bow skills -.-

Savos_Saren

So does the extra range apply to ALL melee abilities?

Rending slashes, cleave, hardened armor, etc? It should apply all our instant cast melee abilities (even talons).

I’m at work- so I’ll have to test it later.

Onefrkncrzypope

Let look at the base consumption of the current stam abilities used on a PvE stamdk, pvp would be derivative of this analysis.

Again current consumption at 160, no medium, no attributes, taken from fextralife:

Venomous claw 1147 Stamina(8.5 secs) -> 860 total loss of consumption: 287

noxious breath(rarely used, 8 secs) 2295 -> 1721 total loss of consumption: 574

poison inject 2430(10 secs) -> 1822 total loss of consumption: 608

now again this is literally a naked toon, no passives in any tree.

now all these skills are cast once a rotation so without the ulti variable, also noting that any .5 time in a skill means no damage lets move claw to 8 secs. This is probably the most expensive these skills can get as all passives make them cheaper and last longer. So mathmatical experiment let do a 2 min fight all skills cast on cooldown. no downtime or cast times. just literally top usage. basically all cast at the same time wait to tick and cast again(unrealistic but shows top consumption for skills)

venomous claw 15 casts total stam saved 4305
noxious breath(not on bis pve dps) 15 times total stam saved 8610
poison inject 12 times total stam saved 7296

total stam saved at highest consumption 20,211 over 120 secs = 168.425 stam saved per second or an equivalent of 336 recovery. s but most pve are vampires and all dps should have the cost reduction passives and skill damage passives. This is abysmal. Please some one link and do the math of a full spec meta Stamdk cost and I'll do the math again.

Also lets look at some selected class passives(not saying other class are perfect):
Templar does x physical/x mag damage per .5 sec (25% chance) while using aedric spear, more crit damage when spear skill slotted, cost reduction, weapon damage by 6%

sorc: reduce cost of mag/stam %5, stam recov 15% when deadric skill slotted, increase physical/lightning damage 5%, every sorc ability raises spell/weap damage 2%, stormcalling does x damage under 15% health either mag or stam or both depending on damage type done.

nightblade: increase crit with assassination skills on bar, increase crit damage done with assassination skill on bar, 15% all recov, max 4% mag passive for siphoning ability slotted.

warden: 12% recov for animal companion skill, 2% more damage per animal skill, 6% to mag and ice damage

dk increase damage and length of fiery breath, searing strike, standard 3%, AOE fire damage 6%, Poison skills 25% reduction, 500 recovered every 5 secs if poisoned/burned(if 100% uptime 200 recov), battle roar(omg the big one!!!) 46 of each recover per ulti cost( dd has 3 per sec ulti 250 = 84 secs = 479 recov) total recov in perfect proc world for a dd 679 recov non scaleable and is in a perfect proc world......

we have damage boost only on three skill for 3%, 6% on aoe flame damage(what eruption standard and engulfing? omg three skill again!), and 679 as a max recov..... I would put the stam part but its a variable that drastically changes... can a dk atlest get a passive recov like almost every other class who also has non invasive active skill to help with recovery(except sorc).

Drakkdjinn

Is DK an inside joke at ZoS or something? Y’all DKs have some real fortitude to keep going, if magsorcs got this treatment the streets would be full of blood and tears

Apache_Kid

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Is DK an inside joke at ZoS or something? Y’all DKs have some real fortitude to keep going, if magsorcs got this treatment the streets would be full of blood and tears

Check the streets dude. They're full

Sigtric

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Is DK an inside joke at ZoS or something? Y’all DKs have some real fortitude to keep going, if magsorcs got this treatment the streets would be full of blood and tears

lol have you looked at the sorc thread? Looks like a warzone to me

Jamdarius

Still waiting to see and try to figure out how have you managed to improve sustain for magicka DK DD or Healer sustain ... I just didn't see it at all, might be I am tired or blind.

Taking away our whip stun is insane, make it deal more dmg now based on the percantage of the health miissing of the targeted enemy (execute skill) as you have taken our only good way of actually doing anything good. With new sets you have insanely boosted STAMINA characters again leaving us behind by ages.

TYVM for adressing range issue but does it work also on engulfing flames?

venomsky

StShoot wrote: »

venomsky wrote: »

i dont think that zos doing any combat tests..... stamdk now best snipe spamming class!

Why? its a ranged ability with cast time, the buff is only for melee abilitys with insant cast

World in Ruin: This ability no longer increases the damage of Poison area of effect abilities by 3/6%. It now reduces the Stamina cost of all Poison abilities by 12/25%. The Flame bonuses of this passive remain unchanged.

BigBragg

ZOS, like playing MagDK wasn't already enough work... come on.

Hutch679

It could be worse, DKs could be a sorc lol

Quantum_V

Hey all!

I'll be focused on taking a lot of feedback from this thread. Personally, I think most of the changes were in the right direction, but weren't changed fully or correctly.

As far as stamDK goes, it's good to see them starting to take small steps towards the right directions. A couple of changes to passives oriented towards stamDKs are welcome and a good indicator that ZoS is working on creating a more complete poisons synergy gameplay for stamDKs. I do feel changes were underwhelming though, few passives and the net evolution of the class isn't enough, still a decent way from giving stamDKs what they really need.

As far as mDK goes, things went both ways. Good change to burning embers range increase, nice changes regarding ash cloud for PvE DDs and healers. Removing powerlash stun is actually significant buff to mDKs, but quickly counteracted by adding a cost to the skill. MDKs are arguably the only class that runs Equilibrium for competitive sustained DPS in PvE and PvP sustain can be very tricky post battleroar nerf. I don't really understand the reasoning for this change as the only argument provided by ZoS was a sketchy magsorc comparison. Both classes behave and play very differently, using that as argumentation to implement a change like that isn't justified.

Our next meeting with ZoS is schedueled for Tuesday next week, lets do our best to test things on PTS before attacking/praising them. Please keep the feedback coming so that we can still promote more and better changes.

Thanks everyone!

KhajiitHasSkooma

Cancel your subs and go play something else for a while. The only way ZO$ will ever learn.

JamesDX

Why can't they just keep the range 8m on whip instead of nerfing it? Really really stupid change, I like the embers range buff, but reducing whip?? Slot force pulse everybody...