Suggestion: Fix Werewolf's Timed Form

Unknown_Redemption

I am posting this in a standalone thread as the [Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread Bookmark appears to have become abandoned.

Issue:
Outdated Werewolf Timed Form

Suggestion:
There is no question that the Werewolf has evolved greatly since release of ESO, it getting the biggest overhaul in the most recent DLC; but there is still room for major improvement. The Werewolf form should not have a timed duration. When the ultimate is activated the player should be able to remain in this form indefinitely and only change back when needing to mount, sneak, or return to civilization.
*This would NOT be a toggle, meaning that if you break Werewolf, you will need to rebuild your Ultimate from 0.

Devour would be reworked to act as a channeled regeneration to all Health, Magicka, and Stamina - this should be equivalent to ~50% of the Meditate Psijic Skill.
**As a compromise, while feeding if the Werewolf is hit by an enemy they would take Critical Damage and be be stunned for 2 seconds.

Reasoning:
Even with the recent overhaul to Werewolf, we are still not synergizing well in PvE group environments; especially in terms of allowing newer players to explore/learn dungeons in a PUG. As a Werewolf, we are required to play as an unfriendly fur-ggernaut who waits for no one. This does not make sense in an MMO - especially ESO were the community is what makes the game special.

Having a permanent Werewolf form does not extend any game breaking advantages to PvP, as in its current state, we are unable to sneak or mount. And every Werewolf on the battlefield has a major 'Kill me 1st' sign over their head anyway.

Juhasow

Too strong.

Chrlynsch

-Would be nice if werewolf form allowed the generation of ultimate. As of right now there is no real reward for performing well in combat as a wolf. The rest of gameplay, revolves around ultimate generation, rewarding skilled gameplay with more ultimate, and faster chaining of ultimate abiliites.

-As of right now if a werewolf wipes out an entire enemy raid then proceeds to run out of food to sustain form they will transform back into human form, with an empty ultimate pool.

-Adding ultimate generation to werewolf would promote skilled werewolf gameplay, and reward successful werewolf sessions. In pve you would be able to get back into wolf if your group needed to break.

Unknown_Redemption

Juhasow wrote: »

Too strong.

How so? Please elaborate.

Unknown_Redemption

Chrlynsch wrote: »

-Would be nice if werewolf form allowed the generation of ultimate. As of right now there is no real reward for performing well in combat as a wolf. The rest of gameplay, revolves around ultimate generation, rewarding skilled gameplay with more ultimate, and faster chaining of ultimate abiliites.

-As of right now if a werewolf wipes out an entire enemy raid then proceeds to run out of food to sustain form they will transform back into human form, with an empty ultimate pool.

-Adding ultimate generation to werewolf would promote skilled werewolf gameplay, and reward successful werewolf sessions. In pve you would be able to get back into wolf if your group needed to break.

This is also a great solution and would be great stand alone or combined with my solution.

Feanor

Ever thought that permanent form isn’t the design goal? If it were, the timer wouldn’t be there in the first place. No ultimate in the game allows permanent use. Not even overload.

Unknown_Redemption

Feanor wrote: »

Ever thought that permanent form isn’t the design goal? If it were, the timer wouldn’t be there in the first place. No ultimate in the game allows permanent use. Not even overload.

Or. It is just outdated and unevolved. WW is more of a play style as a whole than an Ultimate.

Qbiken

Feanor wrote: »

Ever thought that permanent form isn’t the design goal? If it were, the timer wouldn’t be there in the first place. No ultimate in the game allows permanent use. Not even overload.

Not necessarily true, the "Call of the Pack" passive kinda contradicts that statement.

Juhasow wrote: »

Too strong.

I've always said that permawolf has a higher potential than the werewolf that just transform to burst someone down, but it requires more skill to execute. There are many ways to play "permawolf" and the last passive in the skilline is the best way to achieve that. Practice is key here.

And I strongly agree with juhasow that werewolf doesn't need an easier time maintaining form.

If ZOS fix the bug with the missing 10k resistance, Werewolfs are in a really good spot, and don't need further changes.

Unknown_Redemption

Qbiken wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Ever thought that permanent form isn’t the design goal? If it were, the timer wouldn’t be there in the first place. No ultimate in the game allows permanent use. Not even overload.

Not necessarily true, the "Call of the Pack" passive kinda contradicts that statement.

Juhasow wrote: »

Too strong.

I've always said that permawolf has a higher potential than the werewolf that just transform to burst someone down, but it requires more skill to execute. There are many ways to play "permawolf" and the last passive in the skilline is the best way to achieve that. Practice is key here.

And I strongly agree with juhasow that werewolf doesn't need an easier time maintaining form.

If ZOS fix the bug with the missing 10k resistance, Werewolfs are in a really good spot, and don't need further changes.

Yes, it is okay if the party moves fast.

The chief complaint is wanting to remain as a WW in PUGs, and not being able to; as most new players take 30 seconds between pulls. On any other character I am fine being in chill mode, but in this capacity it is just frustrating.

Another alternative is to change into WW initially with a 30second timer, then allow devour to fill up to a max of 2min.

Feanor

@Qbiken

The Call of the Pack passive actually supports perma wolf not being a design goal. It’s 80% max reduction, not 100% or something.

Unknown_Redemption

Feanor wrote: »

@Qbiken

The Call of the Pack passive actually supports perma wolf not being a design goal. It’s 80% max reduction, not 100% or something.

It wasn't a literal statement.

Qbiken

Feanor wrote: »

@Qbiken

The Call of the Pack passive actually supports perma wolf not being a design goal. It’s 80% max reduction, not 100% or something.

Theoretically yes, in practice it's basically permawolf

Unknown_Redemption

Qbiken wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Qbiken

The Call of the Pack passive actually supports perma wolf not being a design goal. It’s 80% max reduction, not 100% or something.

Theoretically yes, in practice it's basically permawolf

Call of the Pack could give an extra 5% Weapon Damage per WW within 20 meters. And just give the base WW a slower decay timer.

Qbiken

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Qbiken

The Call of the Pack passive actually supports perma wolf not being a design goal. It’s 80% max reduction, not 100% or something.

Theoretically yes, in practice it's basically permawolf

Call of the Pack could give an extra 5% Weapon Damage per WW within 20 meters. And just give the base WW a slower decay timer.

Werewolfs already get 18% more weapon damage from savage strength, and another 20% from Hircine´s Rage (major brutality). ZOS removed the unique 10% weapon damage boost from Hircine´s Rage so you would be forced to make a choice between more damage or more survivability, which in my opinion was a good move. If we put aside the bugged Savage Strength passive, werewolfs have more survivability and less damage output this patch. Giving them more damage is not a good idea from a balance perspective.

Call of the Pack also includes yourself so by having 2/2 points into the passive you already get 20% reduced cost of staying in werewolf form

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Ever thought that permanent form isn’t the design goal? If it were, the timer wouldn’t be there in the first place. No ultimate in the game allows permanent use. Not even overload.

Not necessarily true, the "Call of the Pack" passive kinda contradicts that statement.

Juhasow wrote: »

Too strong.

I've always said that permawolf has a higher potential than the werewolf that just transform to burst someone down, but it requires more skill to execute. There are many ways to play "permawolf" and the last passive in the skilline is the best way to achieve that. Practice is key here.

And I strongly agree with juhasow that werewolf doesn't need an easier time maintaining form.

If ZOS fix the bug with the missing 10k resistance, Werewolfs are in a really good spot, and don't need further changes.

Yes, it is okay if the party moves fast.

The chief complaint is wanting to remain as a WW in PUGs, and not being able to; as most new players take 30 seconds between pulls. On any other character I am fine being in chill mode, but in this capacity it is just frustrating.

Another alternative is to change into WW initially with a 30second timer, then allow devour to fill up to a max of 2min.

I would say you´ve had bad luck with the PUG´s then. I haven´t faced any issues staying in WW-form during any dungeon unless I need to speak to a quest-giver

Casul

I recently got my new Stam sorc WW level 10, gotta say I love the new passive for keeping werewolf up, although devour is still needed it lets me remain in form a lot longer. Honestly though werewolf already has a good amount of negatives and there are barely any of them to begin with so a permanent timer would be fine imo

Dashmatt

Personally I’d rather fight a werewolf that has been transformed for 2 hours than 2 seconds. They are much scarier with human buffs still active. I don’t think there would be any huge downside to removing the timer, provided the other mechanics stayed the same: still a high cost ultimate that has to be activated.

Nord_Raseri

agreed. vamps get all there bonuses 100% of the time without having to use any ultimate, why can't a werewolf stay in werewolf form for all the time in between fighting if that's what they really want? either way I'm sure they'd still transform back to normal in open world pvp(that seems to be everyone who's against it's argument is really about) in order to mount because of the whole ESO horse simulator that is cyrodiil. if it's because of BGs, there's more than enough stamblades to easily murder the werewolf. other than that, why would anyone have an issue if someone else wants to run around the map as a werewolf?

Qbiken

Dashmatt wrote: »

Personally I’d rather fight a werewolf that has been transformed for 2 hours than 2 seconds. They are much scarier with human buffs still active. I don’t think there would be any huge downside to removing the timer, provided the other mechanics stayed the same: still a high cost ultimate that has to be activated.

Permawolf is more dangerous, but harder play.

Unknown_Redemption

Qbiken wrote: »

I would say you´ve had bad luck with the PUG´s then. I haven´t faced any issues staying in WW-form during any dungeon unless I need to speak to a quest-giver

If the dungeon finder hand options such as
Zerg
RP
Questing

It would be different, but I tend to get A LOT of <CP160s in my dailies and I do not want to ruin their 1st impressions of ESO and/or group finding.

leepalmer95

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

agreed. vamps get all there bonuses 100% of the time without having to use any ultimate, why can't a werewolf stay in werewolf form for all the time in between fighting if that's what they really want? either way I'm sure they'd still transform back to normal in open world pvp(that seems to be everyone who's against it's argument is really about) in order to mount because of the whole ESO horse simulator that is cyrodiil. if it's because of BGs, there's more than enough stamblades to easily murder the werewolf. other than that, why would anyone have an issue if someone else wants to run around the map as a werewolf?

WW's get a lot more bonus in ww form that vamps do out of form.

Also vamps take fire dmg bonus which is a lot more common than poison dmg which ww takes bonus dmg from.

ZeroXFF

I agree with the main issue, but the solution is to simply stop the timer out of combat. You already can maintain the WW form indefinitely while in combat.

Unknown_Redemption

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I agree with the main issue, but the solution is to simply stop the timer out of combat. You already can maintain the WW form indefinitely while in combat.

It lasts for 5min of straight combat.

ZeroXFF

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I agree with the main issue, but the solution is to simply stop the timer out of combat. You already can maintain the WW form indefinitely while in combat.

It lasts for 5min of straight combat.

If you pick the right morph of pounce, you can keep it up forever. It's good enough, considering that usually there are plenty of reasons to pounce around, and fights don't last that long anyways. But it is absolutely disruptive having to stay back near the corpses making people wonder why you're not coming, and then pulling before the tank because your form is about to run out.

Nord_Raseri

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

agreed. vamps get all there bonuses 100% of the time without having to use any ultimate, why can't a werewolf stay in werewolf form for all the time in between fighting if that's what they really want? either way I'm sure they'd still transform back to normal in open world pvp(that seems to be everyone who's against it's argument is really about) in order to mount because of the whole ESO horse simulator that is cyrodiil. if it's because of BGs, there's more than enough stamblades to easily murder the werewolf. other than that, why would anyone have an issue if someone else wants to run around the map as a werewolf?

WW's get a lot more bonus in ww form that vamps do out of form.

Also vamps take fire dmg bonus which is a lot more common than poison dmg which ww takes bonus dmg from.

every stam charcter has use of some sort of poison damage, be it from class ability, bow, or poison damage glyph.

Chrlynsch

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

agreed. vamps get all there bonuses 100% of the time without having to use any ultimate, why can't a werewolf stay in werewolf form for all the time in between fighting if that's what they really want? either way I'm sure they'd still transform back to normal in open world pvp(that seems to be everyone who's against it's argument is really about) in order to mount because of the whole ESO horse simulator that is cyrodiil. if it's because of BGs, there's more than enough stamblades to easily murder the werewolf. other than that, why would anyone have an issue if someone else wants to run around the map as a werewolf?

WW's get a lot more bonus in ww form that vamps do out of form.

Also vamps take fire dmg bonus which is a lot more common than poison dmg which ww takes bonus dmg from.

Yet wolves also lose more passives than vampires do after transforming.