Been away for 18 months - is sharpened no longer necessary on weapons?

GreasyDave

I took a break round about when Morrowind dropped.

I've recently logged in a couple of times to see where the game is at and I've been browsing various fansites trying to figure out how far mechanics have shifted since I last played.

I admit I'm puzzled. I play exclusively stam builds. When I last played, last year the resistance of mobs was set at 18k -IIRC. So pretty much sharpened was Bis. For solo or group dungeons, Spriggans or two fanged were recommended. Trials depended on the set up but still, sharpened was the meta.

From what I understand, the resistance of monsters in pve is still 18k - that hasn't changed? However, on all the build forums I've been browsing noone is using sharpened or penetration focused armour. I'm reading infused and nirnhorned weapons. Regards armour VO is still recommended but also Automatons (?). I rarely see twice fanged or spriggan's mentioned? (Incidentally, the builds I've been browsing aren't compensating with piercing in CP's, it just seems penetration isn't the deal breaker it was 18 months ago?)

If anyone has the time to explain what's changed in the mechanics and builds to make penetration less of a priority, since I last played, I'd be grateful.

Beardimus

Talked my mates through this the other day. Sharp was absolute BIS for everything.

And IIRC, nothing has changed there. However in terms of DPS / damage as Sharp got a 50% nerf other traits are just more effective.

But yes, cutting down resistance by 4.5-5k is still a big hit. Its just that Sharp is now like 2-2.5k ish.

So having Major Breach / Fracture up (which was the same as Sharpened) is still key. Moreso if not.

BUT finaly point, how much pen to run still equates to how much resistance your target has.

GreasyDave

Beardimus wrote: »

Talked my mates through this the other day. Sharp was absolute BIS for everything.

And IIRC, nothing has changed there. However in terms of DPS / damage as Sharp got a 50% nerf other traits are just more effective.

But yes, cutting down resistance by 4.5-5k is still a big hit. Its just that Sharp is now like 2-2.5k ish.

So having Major Breach / Fracture up (which was the same as Sharpened) is still key. Moreso if not.

BUT finaly point, how much pen to run still equates to how much resistance your target has.

Thanks for the quick reply. So basically while running solo or with a PUG, the Spriggans I farmed will still be key. But when doing dailies or a trial with my mates, there's more room for experimentation dependent on the group set up.

Sparr0w

Yeah on stam weapon damage is more important than penetration to focus on. Your tank will drop resistance 10k~ thru infused crusher, major fracture & alkosh. If you have a stamplar in the group theres another 1.5-2k from minor fracture.

Since infused weapon damage is now a thing, so is 6/1 or 7 medium, so running weapon damage oriented gear just scales better.

Last resort you can just swap mundus stones to the lover and you're good to go.

Kanar

Some misinformation in this thread. Reaching penetration cap is still key, it's just people do it in different ways now.
- sharpened got nerfed
- lover mundus now gives a little over 4k pen
- other mundus changes too (thief nerfed, warrior buffed I think?)
- sunder & nightmothers we're nerfed so Stam is now largely responsible for own pen, just like Magicka

With the standard set of trial debuffs you still need 7-8k pen. Many guides say to use lover, I prefer TFS and you do see it recommended. Either of those plus CP will get you close. And are a more efficient way of doing so than sharpened weapons.

GreasyDave

Kanar wrote: »

Some misinformation in this thread. Reaching penetration cap is still key, it's just people do it in different ways now.
- sharpened got nerfed
- lover mundus now gives a little over 4k pen
- other mundus changes too (thief nerfed, warrior buffed I think?)
- sunder & nightmothers we're nerfed so Stam is now largely responsible for own pen, just like Magicka

With the standard set of trial debuffs you still need 7-8k pen. Many guides say to use lover, I prefer TFS and you do see it recommended. Either of those plus CP will get you close. And are a more efficient way of doing so than sharpened weapons.

Thanks. This change actually seems to make gearing and builds a bit more interesting than it was

LiquidPony

GreasyDave wrote: »

I took a break round about when Morrowind dropped.

I've recently logged in a couple of times to see where the game is at and I've been browsing various fansites trying to figure out how far mechanics have shifted since I last played.

I admit I'm puzzled. I play exclusively stam builds. When I last played, last year the resistance of mobs was set at 18k -IIRC. So pretty much sharpened was Bis. For solo or group dungeons, Spriggans or two fanged were recommended. Trials depended on the set up but still, sharpened was the meta.

From what I understand, the resistance of monsters in pve is still 18k - that hasn't changed? However, on all the build forums I've been browsing noone is using sharpened or penetration focused armour. I'm reading infused and nirnhorned weapons. Regards armour VO is still recommended but also Automatons (?). I rarely see twice fanged or spriggan's mentioned? (Incidentally, the builds I've been browsing aren't compensating with piercing in CP's, it just seems penetration isn't the deal breaker it was 18 months ago?)

If anyone has the time to explain what's changed in the mechanics and builds to make penetration less of a priority, since I last played, I'd be grateful.

The stamina DPS meta has been, for the most part, Nirnhoned mainhand + Infused offhand (if using DW) since Sharpened was nerfed.

Typically penetration cap in group play is reached via:

* Lover mundus (+4196 pen with 7 Legendary Divines pieces)
* Alkosh (3010)
* Torug's Pact Infused weapon with Crusher Enchant (used by tank, 2740)
* Major Fracture (5280)
* Minor Fracture (1320)

Those sources altogether give about 16.5k pen, leaving 1.7k left over. You cover the difference with Piercing CP. Roughly 18 CP allocated there will get you to 18.2k, however, because not all of those sources will be up 100% of the time, usually people go for somewhere around ~30 points in Piercing.

For group play, most "meta" stam setups are either Relequen + Advancing Yokeda or Relequen + Ravager right now. TFS doesn't get much play because in order to maximize the penetration stacks, you need to run it on the body ... but Relequen needs to be run on the body, so TFS really isn't optimal and generally isn't recommended.

You can make TFS work by doing something 5 x Relequen (armor), 5 x TFS (head/shoulders/jewelry), 2 x Master's DW using either The Thief or The Warrior. It's not quite as good as the meta setups because you lose the Monster Set (the Selene proc does more damage than the Master's DW proc and you also get a stat bonus out of the Monster Set) ... but it's not bad.

Gilvoth

you guys are assume talking about pvp?

Danksta

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

you guys are assume talking about pvp?

With the OP mentioning mobs, dungeons and trials I think it's safe to say they're talking about PvE.

GreasyDave

Danksta wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

you guys are assume talking about pvp?

With the OP mentioning mobs, dungeons and trials I think it's safe to say they're talking about PvE.

I am and thanks everyone for taking the time to help me out.
There's really useful insights from all of you. Great to get some clear insight.
So thanks

WhoThenNow7

I run infused and nirnhoned on my stam dk and actually noticed a dps boost when I switched my mundus from the warrior to the lover (dummy test, though)

Ragnarock41

Sharp got %50 nerf, nirn/infused etc got buffed.

raj72616a

training is still useless.

defending is nerfed by half and is sorta useless.

charged and powered still only serve very specific purpose.

sharpened is nerfed by 50%, but is still a good trait, and now is on par with infused and nirnhoned and precise.

so instead of having only one drastically superior trait out of nine, there are now 4 best traits depending on how you min max your build.