How do you feel about current state of Sorcs?

Tasear

A few changes after wolf Hunter, so how has that impacted your gameplay?

technohic

I havent played my sorc yet but I feel they missed on the adjustment.

Playing yesterday on my stamplar, it felt like it really screwed over the single sorcs I ran into with the telegraph of RC and being able to dodge it, but at the same time; when a zerg was coming, the RCs just kept coming. You cant dodge them all. Eventually one will land and you will be out of stam to break free. If you take it and try to break free, it still has a stupid delay. If a single sorc keeps spamming it though; they will run out of magicka as fast as you stamina and wont have their burst setup anyway other than maybe a procced frag.

Its basically made it more appealing for sorcs to run in ball groups and zergs where they can just spam a couple of things again.

Feanor

@Taesar

Thanks for asking, but at this point I feel anything less than a class overhaul is a waste of resources, and certainly if the adjustments are done in the Rune Cage fashion.

You can tell Mr. Wrobel that it would have saved him all the hassle and the flak if he would have listened to the experienced Sorcs that told him in the Update 18 PTS that buffing RC like that isn’t a good idea and the buffs should be done elsewhere.

Now 3 months of outcry and a PTS with 4 nerfs later we’re at the point where RC is officially worse than it was in CWC.

You can tell him also that the problem most Sorcs feel is that every Sorc plays the same because it’s the most one dimensional class in the game that has very little room for building around different ideas, regardless of PvE or PvP.

One reason for this is the dependence on Staves, another reason the utter lack of buffs and debuffs, and a third reason is that everything revolves around the bursty nature of Sorc damage skills that have advantages in PvP but do not allow for sustained pressure (sustain of that damage is a “pain point” too).

Wolfhunter didn’t solve any of the Sorc topics for me. It just made it easier to play vs Sorc again.

Beardimus

I'm yet to experience it as I'm console. But on paper I cant see how my experience is anything different to above ^

Sorcs the last two patches weren't in a good place. ZOS said Cage was the answer, it wasn't, they took it away (seemingly listening to every biased blade on this forum, but not one Sorc on PTS) and added further nerfs, fury, defensive rune.

On paper alone that approach just doesn't stack up.

Frag/Blast needs sorting out. That's the pebble in the ocean that started the Cage tsunami.

Lastly we getting shoved to reach, it's a nerf if we don't (on bar space alone) yet MagBlades run it better so many gunna be switching. Give us options.

It's not about sorcs wanting to be OP, it's about giving us options / diversity of play. And sitting skills stuck in limbo.

On a side note yes broken skills should be unbroken. FEAR tops the list, apparently Cage is broken in the same way.

I'll ammend / add when the patch hits Xbox.

rafaelcsmaia

I feel left behind in the pve aspect. PVP sorc will go back to reach and thats it, will still work, boring or not.

PVE is the real issue here, sorc is heavily dependant to asylum destro to even being considered in a group, it has an almost useless skill line (pets) that as much as people try to sell em, nobody will trade their nb opness for a walking zoo and their resource management is overall a pain.

Lets not get started on stamsorc, basically a walking weapon skill line.

IMO zos should enhance those class specific group buffs so theyre more needed, something like the exploitation and hemorrage passives, make them a flat % bonus to something, in a way group composition is forced to be more diverse.

Also, unless master architect and war machine gets a lovely nerf, NBs will keep facerooling dps charts, why can they abuse their low cost ulti for massive major slayer uptime while overload was simply disabled for the sake of OPness?

Biro123

I find that not having so much cage spam lets me survive a lot more - especially now its dodgeable!.. I can just keep rolling, rolling, rolling… And sloads? I can cloak again - yay!! Not to mention that I can see if I'm gonna be detected too! Haven't died yet since wolf-hunter hit.!!! (To be fair though, I've only played for about half an hour )

Oh wait.. I'm not a sorc main anymore...

Priyasekarssk

Tasear wrote: »

A few changes after wolf Hunter, so how has that impacted your gameplay?

Biro123 wrote: »

I find that not having so much cage spam lets me survive a lot more - especially now its dodgeable!.. I can just keep rolling, rolling, rolling… And sloads? I can cloak again - yay!! Not to mention that I can see if I'm gonna be detected too! Haven't died yet since wolf-hunter hit.!!! (To be fair though, I've only played for about half an hour )

Oh wait.. I'm not a sorc main anymore...

ESO is officially pay to win. There is no different from any other MMO. NB & DK streamers with cheese builds dictate class balance and proc sets . Only noobs ,fools and people want fun will only play magic sorc. Sorry, its the truth.

You are too late friend. I realized it very early than most people here. See my previous posts. I told the same thing long back. Runcage was no where near overpowered. But attention it got in forums and all paid posts tells it all , only because it counters NB. ESO is pay to win . Make a NB or DK , stream 1vx and earn money. You are good to go. Never look back. Its all about money and when come to class balance. Streamers class will always be buffed and overpowered.
Just follow the meta. If you are a good player in sorc , you are a god in NB & DK.

Banana

Im still waiting on my class change to test

Neloth

I say if you want to play a caster - go magNB. Or magDK. Sorc is a just weak version of magblade right now, ant it’s very sad.

CyrusArya

Cripples solo/small scale sorcs but has minimal impact on zergling sorcs.

I could write a long post on how I feel about the issue at depth but it should suffice to just say this:

Im not gonna be wasting my time on sorc this patch.

Beardimus

Like I'm all for annoyance at the nerfs, and how blades are favoured etc etc but I don't get the P2W allegations in this thread!!

Unless I'm missing something!!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

PVE: It's easy. I have one of each class. I went mageblade a long time ago as it is clearly the best. There is no balance in PVE, so why not go to the one that mathematically is superior? Sorcs are a second tier class in PVE. Nobody wants a zoo, and most people dont have a perfected inferno to make a non-pet build viable (and those that do, prob play mageblade anyway).

PVP: It's harder. Sorc is my highest AP rank, and for better or worse, I am stuck on this path. If I could transfer my AP to another toon or class change, I would go stamblade, as it's clearly the most dominant class, and the Patch Notes look like they were written by a quorum of Nightblades. They Nerf a class defining skill, and buff another to compensate against all the advice of anyone that actually has a clue how to play this game. The buff was silly and it has now been nerfed to be a weaker skill than it was before. Frags is still garbage, and we are back to a flame reach meta we had a year ago, which, just like PVE, is wildly gear dependent.

In other news, the Dungeon Team really did a bang up job this patch. New dungeons are the best since IC dungeons IMO.

[Edited for bashing]

Jsmalls

Ignored.

Not that it's the class Rep's fault as the program is brand new and I'm sure needs time.

I understand this wasn't a "balance oriented" patch. But how do you give MagSorcs more damage because they were lacking it, then the very next patch take the damage away and call it balance.

So now we sit and be cannon fodder for another patch because our class needs a rework not a bandaid.

Revert the 10% damage nerf on frags as they don't CC anymore.
Give blast a frag type proc.
Give boundless storm/bolt escape snare and root removal.

Give bolt escape QoL fixes. It shouldn't root the caster. It should keep momentum. And you should be able to cast it in the direction you are facing when rooted. And using it offensively shouldn't give a stacking cost increase.

But we won't get any of that.

TheYKcid

As some have pointed out, BOTH our CC options have been gutted by this point (frags and cage) and thus Magsorc is getting shoehorned into using Master's destro for reach-spam again.

This build wasn't particularly powerful back in the day (Sorc was considered mid-tier in CWC/DBones) but it is even worse in the current state of the game.

This is because the Master's destro—just like all other ability-altering Arena weapons (vMA, vDSA, etc.) occupy 2 slots, but only give 1 set bonus. This has been an issue since Summerset went live.

They are still good on the backbar (eg. vMA bow & destro) but are a substantial DPS loss when run on the frontbar, due to the lack of a 1pc stat bonus.

As Sorc is now the only class that is heavily obligated to run an Arena weapon on their frontbar, this issue affects the class disproportionately.

I go into greater detail (with actual data) in this thread which I've maintained since the Summerset PTS.

Would greatly appreciate if you could give it a look, @Tasear. Alternatively... reverting the frags nerf would make a lot of sorcs happy.

IAVITNI

Neloth wrote: »

I say if you want to play a caster - go magNB. Or magDK. Sorc is a just weak version of magblade right now, ant it’s very sad.

Pretty much this.

Although on the bright side, it seems like people will be hopping off the sorc bandwagon. The previous PTS, most of the sorc feedback was insightful and constructive whether it was asking for nerfs or buffs. That cannot be said for this PTS.

Right now, there is far to much false information regarding sorcs for any balance changes to be made. At most, giving magicka sorcs a stun, whether it be by making Crystal Blast proc or just adding it back onto Frag will suffice. Besides that, I don't believe they should touch sorc unless they do a complete overhaul of the classes defensive mechanics.

All the below is from a PvP perspective.
**I forget the base morph of Streak, so whenever I say Streak, please read as BoL+Streak

The mag variant currently has access to a lot of mechanics that go from overbearing to useless depending on the situation.

• Shields are the top offender. Personally, I think giving some form of visual indication of shield strength would go a long way. Removing Shield stacking would work, but I feel it would be the poor choice.Reducing it's effectiveness would be the better route as it would allow sorcs to choose between shield stacking or Harden+Lightning Armor. Reducing Harness returns and changing shield scaling should be tested before removing shield stacking.
• Lightning Armor needs to be meaningful. The Major Expedition is nice, but useless. It does not provide mobility in a meaningful way. The skills is meant to punish melee opponents by damaging them but the damage is irrelevant. It needs to provide meaningful mobility against melee opponents, such as a chance to proc Major Expedition for 2 seconds whenever it deals damage instead of the 7.5 seconds on cast and snare removal (not immunity) either on cast or proc. Obviously, chance to proc would have a cooldown of say 5 seconds, so the sorc gets the proc max 3 times. Highly suggest not touching the radius of this skill as it is the preferred morph for PvE tanks
• Streak needs to be less clunky, and if the fatigue cost is to stay, the skill should be directed in the direction the character is moving not looking. This would make Streaking in combat more fluid, especially for console. Ideally, remove the cost entirely, although if the other PoP I've highlighted are addressed, it wont be necessary for magsorcs. Stam requires different considerations. I don't think tying a snare removal into Streak is the way to go as it makes mobility far to high. As noted above, snare removal is really only necessary to stay mobile vs melee opponents who have a plethora of snares and gap-closers in their arsenal. Snare removal on Streak would simply be overpowered.
• Daedric Mines--Right now the 2 morphs are either useless or niche. They are intended as an area denial skill, but similar to why Templar Rune was changed, this skill has not been updated for the current meta. Minefield encourages camping 1 spot, which is the direct opposite of the intended defensive nature of a magsorc. Tomb is hardly used. Ideally, tomb could be changed to create a mobile area denial, similar to Eternal Hunt where a mine is dropped every 3 seconds for 15 seconds.
• Encase-not to sure about this skill and how it fits into the magsorc kit. It's a nice niche root but it competes with Mines. Honestly makes no sense why this skill exists since it's high magicka cost gates it from being a useful utility skill for stam classes, which would receive a greater benefit from it
• Rune Cage should never have been allowed to exist in the first place. While I am happy it got nerfed to the ground, it sucks that Defensive Rune was collateral and no buffs were given to compensate for the string of nerfs to sorc. Oh wait, they buffed Curse to explode twice resulting in lower dps if you didn't recast a few patches back...

Damage would need to be adjusted as well. Frags is honestly the best choice to dump it into as it fits the sorc offensive mechanics the best. I know ZoS has a desire to homogenize the classes and avoid overloaded skills, but the sorc class is so unique in the way it is played, they may as well just delete it.

Daedric Summoning Skill Line:
***A lot of these passives go unused. It's fine that a whole skill line is useless to majority of sorcs I guess, but the passives should still provide some minor benefit that are increased (significantly so) when a pet is summoned/active. This has the biggest impact on stam sorcs atm.

As for stam sorc, a lot of people will say the class is doing well.personally I disagree. Unless the class is relying on over-performing mechanics (Troll King, bleeds, Defile, Dark Deal, Implosion abuse) the class does not perform well. I've tested a lot of variants, even tried backbarring Wyrd Tree with Hulking at one point. The class is mediocre at best. The only benefit of running a stamsorc is Dark Deal, but this really only shines in BGs where cheese is king. In openworld and duels, anything a stam sorc can do, another class can do better. they really lack class identity outside of Dark Deal and ruining a nightblades day.

Stam PoP:

• Lost one of their only utility skills after Rune Cage change from last patch. Even then,this skill was very niche.
• Lack of Class synergy in terms of skills and passives
• Over reliance on Dark Deal-Dark Deal is literally the only reason why stam sorc is viable anywhere in PvP. It allows the class to ignore resource sustain and build purely into damage.However, it creates an over reliance on Dark Deal because without sacrificing all sustain,damage isn't competitive. That or the class runs cheese. If Dark Deal is relied upon, it severely limits what stamsorcs can use utility-wise. The skill has also become the classes primary heal. If ZoS is looking for overloaded skills---look right here
• To obtain enough damage, either the class is far to squishy, is over reliant on Dark Deal or relies purely on sets/passive mechanics (cheese). This fact is readily overlooked due to the strength of Dark Deal and the current cheese meta. Sets are performing well,stam sorc is not.
• suffers due to the imbalance of their mag counter parts. Streak was a great utility skill that was effectively removed from the stam sorc kit due to the increased cost. This greatly ate into magicka pools which interfered with Dark Deal sustain. refer to above.
• lack of reliable spammable. Personally,I don't believe this is a PoP, but I will include it for the sake of others. Right now the class is overly reliant on weapon abilities. I'd rather see a utility skill in place of a spammable. A contender could be Rune Cage.The Rune places a Hurricane effect on an opponent. The marked target only takes 50% of the damage dealt (since it is in the eye of the storm) but the hurricane stuns after x seconds in an AoE. Be a great way to force zergs to spread out. I don't believe changing the BA HA buffs to LA was better in the long run. It gave stam sorcs identity as being very strong heavy attackers, which took the place of a spammable. If homogenizing classes is the way to go, than sure, give stam sorcs a class spammable. If not, delete the class or recognize that homogenizing all classes is a poor decision.
• Encase--the Major Vitality buffs make Encase seem like they are meant to favor stam sorcs, primarily tanks but they would need a slight cost decrease to be effective. Leave Restraining Prison as is for PvE tanks but possibly change Shattering Shards to also grant Major Vitality for a flat 2.5 seconds but change the skill into a small AoE based around the character,similar to talons.

Streak is a tough point, similar to Cleansing Ritual. With a low cost, mag becomes to spammable but the current fatigue cost removes it from a stam sorcs offensive kit. Maybe having the first 2 Streaks not be subject to a fatigue cost would help.

Didgerion

Neloth wrote: »

I say if you want to play a caster - go magNB. Or magDK. Sorc is a just weak version of magblade right now, ant it’s very sad.

And mag blade is the weaker version of stam blade...and you've got your answer.

ak_pvp

Not a good place especially within this mainly nightblade meta. Also stalemates vs DK wings.

But. Not an awful place either. Mid tier with a bit of a simplistic identity. 2nd best mag class for openworld.

Stibbons

Sorcs are just fine. Some skills still overperform and some game mechanics too. Remove shield stacking is needed or remove permanent streaking.

Abhaya

IAVITNI wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

I say if you want to play a caster - go magNB. Or magDK. Sorc is a just weak version of magblade right now, ant it’s very sad.

Pretty much this.

Although on the bright side, it seems like people will be hopping off the sorc bandwagon. The previous PTS, most of the sorc feedback was insightful and constructive whether it was asking for nerfs or buffs. That cannot be said for this PTS.

Right now, there is far to much false information regarding sorcs for any balance changes to be made. At most, giving magicka sorcs a stun, whether it be by making Crystal Blast proc or just adding it back onto Frag will suffice. Besides that, I don't believe they should touch sorc unless they do a complete overhaul of the classes defensive mechanics.

All the below is from a PvP perspective.
**I forget the base morph of Streak, so whenever I say Streak, please read as BoL+Streak

The mag variant currently has access to a lot of mechanics that go from overbearing to useless depending on the situation.

• Shields are the top offender. Personally, I think giving some form of visual indication of shield strength would go a long way. Removing Shield stacking would work, but I feel it would be the poor choice.Reducing it's effectiveness would be the better route as it would allow sorcs to choose between shield stacking or Harden+Lightning Armor. Reducing Harness returns and changing shield scaling should be tested before removing shield stacking.
• Lightning Armor needs to be meaningful. The Major Expedition is nice, but useless. It does not provide mobility in a meaningful way. The skills is meant to punish melee opponents by damaging them but the damage is irrelevant. It needs to provide meaningful mobility against melee opponents, such as a chance to proc Major Expedition for 2 seconds whenever it deals damage instead of the 7.5 seconds on cast and snare removal (not immunity) either on cast or proc. Obviously, chance to proc would have a cooldown of say 5 seconds, so the sorc gets the proc max 3 times. Highly suggest not touching the radius of this skill as it is the preferred morph for PvE tanks
• Streak needs to be less clunky, and if the fatigue cost is to stay, the skill should be directed in the direction the character is moving not looking. This would make Streaking in combat more fluid, especially for console. Ideally, remove the cost entirely, although if the other PoP I've highlighted are addressed, it wont be necessary for magsorcs. Stam requires different considerations. I don't think tying a snare removal into Streak is the way to go as it makes mobility far to high. As noted above, snare removal is really only necessary to stay mobile vs melee opponents who have a plethora of snares and gap-closers in their arsenal. Snare removal on Streak would simply be overpowered.
• Daedric Mines--Right now the 2 morphs are either useless or niche. They are intended as an area denial skill, but similar to why Templar Rune was changed, this skill has not been updated for the current meta. Minefield encourages camping 1 spot, which is the direct opposite of the intended defensive nature of a magsorc. Tomb is hardly used. Ideally, tomb could be changed to create a mobile area denial, similar to Eternal Hunt where a mine is dropped every 3 seconds for 15 seconds.
• Encase-not to sure about this skill and how it fits into the magsorc kit. It's a nice niche root but it competes with Mines. Honestly makes no sense why this skill exists since it's high magicka cost gates it from being a useful utility skill for stam classes, which would receive a greater benefit from it
• Rune Cage should never have been allowed to exist in the first place. While I am happy it got nerfed to the ground, it sucks that Defensive Rune was collateral and no buffs were given to compensate for the string of nerfs to sorc. Oh wait, they buffed Curse to explode twice resulting in lower dps if you didn't recast a few patches back...

Damage would need to be adjusted as well. Frags is honestly the best choice to dump it into as it fits the sorc offensive mechanics the best. I know ZoS has a desire to homogenize the classes and avoid overloaded skills, but the sorc class is so unique in the way it is played, they may as well just delete it.

Daedric Summoning Skill Line:
***A lot of these passives go unused. It's fine that a whole skill line is useless to majority of sorcs I guess, but the passives should still provide some minor benefit that are increased (significantly so) when a pet is summoned/active. This has the biggest impact on stam sorcs atm.

As for stam sorc, a lot of people will say the class is doing well.personally I disagree. Unless the class is relying on over-performing mechanics (Troll King, bleeds, Defile, Dark Deal, Implosion abuse) the class does not perform well. I've tested a lot of variants, even tried backbarring Wyrd Tree with Hulking at one point. The class is mediocre at best. The only benefit of running a stamsorc is Dark Deal, but this really only shines in BGs where cheese is king. In openworld and duels, anything a stam sorc can do, another class can do better. they really lack class identity outside of Dark Deal and ruining a nightblades day.

Stam PoP:

• Lost one of their only utility skills after Rune Cage change from last patch. Even then,this skill was very niche.
• Lack of Class synergy in terms of skills and passives
• Over reliance on Dark Deal-Dark Deal is literally the only reason why stam sorc is viable anywhere in PvP. It allows the class to ignore resource sustain and build purely into damage.However, it creates an over reliance on Dark Deal because without sacrificing all sustain,damage isn't competitive. That or the class runs cheese. If Dark Deal is relied upon, it severely limits what stamsorcs can use utility-wise. The skill has also become the classes primary heal. If ZoS is looking for overloaded skills---look right here
• To obtain enough damage, either the class is far to squishy, is over reliant on Dark Deal or relies purely on sets/passive mechanics (cheese). This fact is readily overlooked due to the strength of Dark Deal and the current cheese meta. Sets are performing well,stam sorc is not.
• suffers due to the imbalance of their mag counter parts. Streak was a great utility skill that was effectively removed from the stam sorc kit due to the increased cost. This greatly ate into magicka pools which interfered with Dark Deal sustain. refer to above.
• lack of reliable spammable. Personally,I don't believe this is a PoP, but I will include it for the sake of others. Right now the class is overly reliant on weapon abilities. I'd rather see a utility skill in place of a spammable. A contender could be Rune Cage.The Rune places a Hurricane effect on an opponent. The marked target only takes 50% of the damage dealt (since it is in the eye of the storm) but the hurricane stuns after x seconds in an AoE. Be a great way to force zergs to spread out. I don't believe changing the BA HA buffs to LA was better in the long run. It gave stam sorcs identity as being very strong heavy attackers, which took the place of a spammable. If homogenizing classes is the way to go, than sure, give stam sorcs a class spammable. If not, delete the class or recognize that homogenizing all classes is a poor decision.
• Encase--the Major Vitality buffs make Encase seem like they are meant to favor stam sorcs, primarily tanks but they would need a slight cost decrease to be effective. Leave Restraining Prison as is for PvE tanks but possibly change Shattering Shards to also grant Major Vitality for a flat 2.5 seconds but change the skill into a small AoE based around the character,similar to talons.

Streak is a tough point, similar to Cleansing Ritual. With a low cost, mag becomes to spammable but the current fatigue cost removes it from a stam sorcs offensive kit. Maybe having the first 2 Streaks not be subject to a fatigue cost would help.

Very insightful post regarding stam sorc. I agree with pretty much all of the points you made especially regarding dark deal. Dark deal is a crutch that we often rely on while it is also one of the clunkiest and easily countered skills in the game. Literally half of our passive go unused and my skill bar usually only contains around 3 sorc skills.

Kadoin

I feel the same way I did the last few patches on sorc: its boring. In fact, its so boring that its the only class besides Templar I have an obsession about building a hybrid to use in PvP to make it actually fun and do something "different."

Strider__Roshin

I'm looking forward to playing my magsorc again now that it's not as OP. The hand held victories that came with RC were a complete turnoff to me.

Didgerion

Daus wrote: »

I'm looking forward to playing my magsorc again now that it's not as OP. The hand held victories that came with RC were a complete turnoff to me.

Its not the Sorc OP lol its either the build or a specific combo...guess you could play a non OP build of sorc..what's the matter?

Beardimus

TheYKcid wrote: »

As some have pointed out, BOTH our CC options have been gutted by this point (frags and cage) and thus Magsorc is getting shoehorned into using Master's destro for reach-spam again.

This build wasn't particularly powerful back in the day (Sorc was considered mid-tier in CWC/DBones) but it is even worse in the current state of the game.

This is because the Master's destro—just like all other ability-altering Arena weapons (vMA, vDSA, etc.) occupy 2 slots, but only give 1 set bonus. This has been an issue since Summerset went live.

They are still good on the backbar (eg. vMA bow & destro) but are a substantial DPS loss when run on the frontbar, due to the lack of a 1pc stat bonus.

As Sorc is now the only class that is heavily obligated to run an Arena weapon on their frontbar, this issue affects the class disproportionately.

I go into greater detail (with actual data) in this thread which I've maintained since the Summerset PTS.

Would greatly appreciate if you could give it a look, @Tasear. Alternatively... reverting the frags nerf would make a lot of sorcs happy.

Spot on.

Didgerion

Sorc feels bad, rune-cage don't do the damage anymore, as no one is willing to wait the stun to naturally end.

NB snipers got a way to permastun and 2-shot you with 10k damage snipe.

DKs got a way to perma-sustain while at the same time very tanky and deadly... and extremely mobile

While the sorceress are still stuck with shield staking...quite frustrating...

Edited** Please note the above comments relate to CP-campaign. Non-CP campaign is not that bad for sorcs. You still are stuck with staking max magica and shield spamming, but I guess that's our curse.

troomar

I don't play PvP much, so I will leave the feedback for PvE only.

Sorc Healer (my main until Summerset, now it's my alt, running all vet trials except HoF):
Before Summerset it was usable due to the Matriarch Burst Heal. In trials it lacked party buffs and debuffs, and the Matriarch was annoying and dangerous to others. The only superior quality was Dark Conversion skill that provided great sustain (and thus it was very good for speed runs).
Sorc Healer received nothing during Summerset update, while other classes got their burst heal and other utilities. Right now it feels like the weakest healer again. I play it just because I know the class and because it was my main. Otherwise I would scrap this character.

Sorc Tank (only alt, running only vet dungeons DLC HM):
Before Summerset, as all non-DK tanks, they were usable only in trials because they lacked the chain skill. DKs were simply superior and using Sorc tank before Summerset was just for fun, not viable for end-game. It's changed since Summerset and right now I feel like they are at a good spot. Since it's just my alt and I'm not doing leaderboard runs with it, I can't comment on it for end-game.

Pet sorc (only alt, running all vet trials except HoF, right now not touching it at all):
Nobody wants pets in trials, so this class is dead. Pointless to do anything until the pets are fixed.

Stam sorc (my main since Summerset, running everything):
The only reason we are still somewhat accepted in trials is the DPS we can provide. We have only 2 class skills (Hurricane and Daedric Armor), the rest are Weapon skills. No party buffs, no party debuffs. Very selfish class.
- Dungeons:
Right now everybody is running Tank + 3 DDs and stam sorcs are at a very bad position here. Since we don't have any self buffs, our DPS in such runs is very low compared to other classes (~45-50k DPS). The only superior quality we have is the self heal via Critical Surge, which leads to even more selfishness since I don't need Vigor
- Trials:
All stamina DPS heavily rely on Relequen set. Our DPS is basically Endless Hail + Relequen + Weapon spammable. We don't provide any party buffs or debuffs, no off-heals, no utility.
Right now Stam Sorcs are still quite popular due to the easy rotation and good DPS, but I feel we are susceptible to collateral nerfs (Relequen) since we are heavy dependent on sets and generic skills. I'm trying to enjoy the game now, because I think Stam Sorcs, without an overhaul, will go downhill in future.

There is nothing we do better than stam/mag blades now.

LjAnimalchin

Good sorcs are still doing fine. No surprise there. If you are a bad player playin sorc you're back to being powerless.
As it should be.

Irylia

Just want to make it clear
Frag lost 20% damage and it’s stun
And now can no longer be empowered either.

Rune cage spent a year getting buffed then nerfed over and over and now it’s gutted.
The skill it’s essentially the stun component that frag lost.

Admit your mistake and give us old frag which would provide us with the our unique stun while also dealing with the “lack of damage” that you mentioned when you have rc a buff to damage.

We’d get 20% more on frag and then be able to run inner light and the crit/max mag will bring us up to a healthy spot again.

lassitershawn

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

I feel left behind in the pve aspect. PVP sorc will go back to reach and thats it, will still work, boring or not.

PVE is the real issue here, sorc is heavily dependant to asylum destro to even being considered in a group, it has an almost useless skill line (pets) that as much as people try to sell em, nobody will trade their nb opness for a walking zoo and their resource management is overall a pain.

Lets not get started on stamsorc, basically a walking weapon skill line.

IMO zos should enhance those class specific group buffs so theyre more needed, something like the exploitation and hemorrage passives, make them a flat % bonus to something, in a way group composition is forced to be more diverse.

Also, unless master architect and war machine gets a lovely nerf, NBs will keep facerooling dps charts, why can they abuse their low cost ulti for massive major slayer uptime while overload was simply disabled for the sake of OPness?

Asylum Inferno is still good depending on what you are doing but not mandatory for max DPS post-summerset. Ideally you want 5 Perfected Siroria, 5 BSW (front), 2 Slime/Zaan, vMA Inferno (back). Ofc the content you are running will determine what is ideal.
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In any event, you are spot on about pets and sustain. Pets are usually boring, clutter your bars, and interfere with mechanics. Sustain isn't good, with a very fast 6m taking 5-6 heavy attacks in a full DPS build. Imo all classes in an optimized trial DPS build should be able to sustain a full light weave 6m. Heavy attacks aren't fun (I know its a shocker right...). NBs can still have strongest sustain with the advantages that come with it (less dependent on orbs, bifood usable in lots of content, etc.) but other classes need functional sustain.

Priyasekarssk

Daus wrote: »

I'm looking forward to playing my magsorc again now that it's not as OP. The hand held victories that came with RC were a complete turnoff to me.

Sun will raise in the west if this going to happen.

swirve

Stop balancing the game based on PvPrs...

KnightVI

The nerf to rune cage was a big mistake, and really makes it look like everyone at ZOS is a pvp'ing stamblade.

Sure it needed some adjustment, but it was obvious from the patch notes that these changes would ruin the skill.
On a whole, sorcs need more variety of useful skills. Every sorc I meet has the same setup, rely solely on the 1 burst combo (PVP) and shield stacking.

As for PVE, imo pets should just be removed and the class redesigned. ZOS will NEVER make them smart enough or controllable enough to work in trials. Sure they can be fun for solo play or 4mans, but to lose basically an entire class tree for them is exactly why there is no variety in sorc play.