anyone else notice ESO has no support / buff skills?

Wing

as far as playing a classic support style character

because most buffs/debuffs in this game are named and use the major/minor system, and further because every class has access to everything we really miss out on the classic bard / sage / enhancer character that can buff the crap out of other players and that being their overall contribution rather then just another dps.

even some of the rare sets that did something like this ( spc / transmutation / etc ) have begun to be included in the major minor system or share buffs with other sources.

it really smacked me in the face when I was going to try and make a character that's main purpose was to buff others, I came to the conclusion that the only thing that came close was being a templar and throwing shards -_- and on that point I would like to say synergies don't count in the classical sense. while its a nice tool that could benefit that style of character it is just that, a tool to be stacked on an existing playstyle.

I don't know, its just sad that support = healer instead of support.

Wifeaggro13

It's a bummer

PlagueSD

In this game, buffing/debuffing is actually the tank's job in a group. Since we have limited skill slots available for use, we can't slot every ability at the same time. DPS is going to have DPS skills slotted, Healers will have heals, and SOME buffs slotted. Tanks will fill the rest.

Fur_like_snow

Imagine if you could dispel buffs like shields and vigor off a player or spell steal a buff.

Wifeaggro13

PlagueSD wrote: »

In this game, buffing/debuffing is actually the tank's job in a group. Since we have limited skill slots available for use, we can't slot every ability at the same time. DPS is going to have DPS skills slotted, Healers will have heals, and SOME buffs slotted. Tanks will fill the rest.

It has more to do with smaller group sizes and the game is a dps centric design . Healing and tanks dont have a true defined need for 99%of the content

Inhuman003

If only we had a bard class to give that support buff.

evoniee

its already hard to maintain all available buff for each person to be up while we only have 12 slots and each buff only last for average 25 sec

PlagueSD

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Imagine if you could dispel buffs like shields and vigor off a player or spell steal a buff.

Those abilities would be deemed OP'd by the same people that are getting their buffs/shields removed. The PvP tears would flood Cyrodiil.

Facefister

Inhuman003 wrote: »

If only we had a bard class to give that support buff.

This so much. Tanks feel like filler roles which happen to be tanks. There are so many tanking sets for example, nearly all of them are useless because of the role the tanks have to fullfill.

PlagueSD wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Imagine if you could dispel buffs like shields and vigor off a player or spell steal a buff.

Those abilities would be deemed OP'd by the same people that are getting their buffs/shields removed. The PvP tears would flood Cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil is an ocean already.

idk

Wing wrote: »

as far as playing a classic support style character

because most buffs/debuffs in this game are named and use the major/minor system, and further because every class has access to everything we really miss out on the classic bard / sage / enhancer character that can buff the crap out of other players and that being their overall contribution rather then just another dps.

I did not read past this opening statement because it was so wrong.

Every class does not have access to every buff/debuff from a class perspective.

In fact, healers from any and every class have a primary role of buffing and debuffing. Combat prayer is just one example of buffing dps damage plus increasing the resistance of the party.

Healers are also responsible for helping the groups sustain with skills like orbs/shards, ele drain and minor intellect, endurance, etc.

Healers also can debuff the target with vulnerability and the crushing enchant.

It may not be exactly as you like it based on your experience in other games, but we have a clear role where the player buffs and debuffs.

Edit:

As someone pointed out the tank helps with buffing and debuffing as well.

idk

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

In this game, buffing/debuffing is actually the tank's job in a group. Since we have limited skill slots available for use, we can't slot every ability at the same time. DPS is going to have DPS skills slotted, Healers will have heals, and SOME buffs slotted. Tanks will fill the rest.

It has more to do with smaller group sizes and the game is a dps centric design . Healing and tanks dont have a true defined need for 99%of the content

The more significant content they do have a need and the newer content is less DPS centric and leans more on mechanics. Pretty much every DLC dungeon leans more on mechanics and trials post craglorn are the same.

DBZVelena

missed opportunity: Summerset introducing the bard class. With heavy ties to the House of Reveries.

Royaji

It is pretty obvious that ZOS axed pure support characters from their design as a tradeoff for smaller groups.

There really is no place for a support in a 4 man group. Either you take them instead of a tank or a healer and they turn into debuff/tank or buff/healer that we already have (Why do you think Alkosh and SPC/Olorime are considered staple sets?). Or you replace one of DDs. With a guy who... buffs the other DD. Just one person. Not really sensible, don't you think?

A support guy might be useful in a trial but trial community will have a hard time scratching 10% of the entire population. So a guy who decides to be a support is dead weight in 90+% of content. Ok, large PvP groups will probably grab one as well. So we are at 80% content where our support guy is pretty much useless. Sorry, I'm not so excited for any kind of "bard" character coming to ESO.

ArchMikem

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at and what you consider legitimate support buffs. When I read your title I immediately thought of War Horn and it's morph that I use, Aggressive War Horn which is a great support Ultimate.

I do realize most of the skills that buff others are also Healing skills under the Resto Staff and Templar skill trees, so I'm guessing you mean there isn't a dedicated group support skill tree that's completely separate from Healing?

Bobby_V_Rockit

I hate the idea of some silly bard dancing and singing in the background. Sounds completely rediculius, move along people

Madhattr64

Star Wars Galaxies had great buff classes. Doctors, musician, entertainers.

max_only

5 person parties. This will reduce wait times for dps players and allow for a support class slot.

swippy

i feel like my main plays Cyrodiil as a support class.

i buff everbody's raw stats and resistances with the ult, and their damage stats with a set bonus. then my ranged attacks slow down 3 enemies at a time, an AoE slows them further until the stun hits, and everybody who got Slowed is giving away their magicka to my guys beating them up. during this i'm also providing 2 different ways to clean off things like fire or Sload's, and keeping their health high. outside of battle, i make sure we all get to the next fight quicker.

i usually lose solo fights in this setup, but a lot of groups are happy to see me. oh i almost forgot i also rez people pretty quick; my 3 second heal helps me through that. it's fun! i didn't expect i'd have the reflexes to 1v20 and sell videos of it for money, so i focused on figuring out how a noob could be useful. i really hope i'm getting better at it.

Tasear

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Imagine if you could dispel buffs like shields and vigor off a player or spell steal a buff.

Steal a buff sounds cool from personal perspective.

DanteYoda

I know right would want to confuse customers with real class diversity..

BigBragg

Combat Prayer?

TheDarkoil

I was in a trial yesterday and had about 15 - 20 buffs on me from all the various ones people were either intentionally or unintentionally throwing out. Wish I could have them on all the time, some of my heavy attacks were hitting for almost 45k it was insane.

D0PAMINE

You need group AND self buffs available, and I can't stress that enough. It's just, although different from other games you used to play, our way of working together, or even alone.

mocap

you need a babysitter support? Like in dota? It's nice and all, but ESO builded mostly around group mechanics, so dynamic gameplay, rather than "screw red circles! Our group can mitigate all that one-shot BS tx to our support!" )

Jameliel

Inhuman003 wrote: »

If only we had a bard class to give that support buff.

Bards were awesome in DDO:-D

MaleAmazon

There was a reason they removed buff stacking in the first place and implemented the current system. We don´t want *miss miss miss miss miss miss miss death recap* NB fights again...

Also there are buff sets. Alkosh, etc. Ppl do nMoL all the time for this reason and you can really help out with a good healer in PvP in my experience. There just aren´t the focus of class skills but they are there.

And imo you can´t say "you can´t focus on support, I don´t count heals and giving people synergies as support". Ok, you can´t be a tank in ESO, I don´t count taunts as helping to tank

dtsharples

Lots of buffs and de-buffs are built into the combat system already - Lots come from Passive skills so you don't have to actively put them on people, which I guess makes them less noticable.

For example - Passively DKs slow enemies and increase group weapon damage by 5%.
Actively they reduce enemy damage by 15%, give the whole group 7% more fire damage and give weapon and spell damage also.
Each class has a similar number of buffs / debuffs.

Plus:
Crusher + Weakening enchants.
Combat Prayer.
Warhorn.
Elemental Drain.
Lots of armour sets - Mending, Transmutations, Olorime / Spellpower Cure, Ebon, Alkosh etc etc

A full on Buff class I think would be too OP in the game as it currently stands.

Lysette

A lot of support features are hidden behind what ZOS calls "synergies" - it takes a bit of an effort, to figure that out though.

DarkAedin

Wing wrote: »

as far as playing a classic support style character

because most buffs/debuffs in this game are named and use the major/minor system, and further because every class has access to everything we really miss out on the classic bard / sage / enhancer character that can buff the crap out of other players and that being their overall contribution rather then just another dps.

even some of the rare sets that did something like this ( spc / transmutation / etc ) have begun to be included in the major minor system or share buffs with other sources.

it really smacked me in the face when I was going to try and make a character that's main purpose was to buff others, I came to the conclusion that the only thing that came close was being a templar and throwing shards -_- and on that point I would like to say synergies don't count in the classical sense. while its a nice tool that could benefit that style of character it is just that, a tool to be stacked on an existing playstyle.

I don't know, its just sad that support = healer instead of support.

Tank/healer are support roles.

In every video game this holds true;
the difference is that in some other games that have a buffbot, its because players have no other way to access the buffs, this does not hold true in eso where u can combine class/world/guild/potions/etc trees to obtain the buffs instead of relying on a class to buff u.

yiasemi

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I hate the idea of some silly bard dancing and singing in the background. Sounds completely rediculius, move along people

Bravely bold Sir Bobby
Rode forth from Rawl' kha
He was not afraid to die
Oh, brave Sir Bobby
He was not at all afraid
To be killed in nasty ways
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Bobby

He was not in the least bit scared
To be mashed into a pulp
Or to have his eyes gouged out
And his elbows broken
To have his kneecaps split
And his body burned away
And his limbs all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir Bobby
200 soul gems and another 400 in the bank!

Wifeaggro13

idk wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

In this game, buffing/debuffing is actually the tank's job in a group. Since we have limited skill slots available for use, we can't slot every ability at the same time. DPS is going to have DPS skills slotted, Healers will have heals, and SOME buffs slotted. Tanks will fill the rest.

It has more to do with smaller group sizes and the game is a dps centric design . Healing and tanks dont have a true defined need for 99%of the content

The more significant content they do have a need and the newer content is less DPS centric and leans more on mechanics. Pretty much every DLC dungeon leans more on mechanics and trials post craglorn are the same.

hence the 5% of content i do agree their are mechanics in the newer dungeons and trials. VICP VWGT we started to see them do some interesting things. VCOS VMAZZ were extremely fun, and required a lot of dynamics. At the end of the day the "Pros" Circumvented the roles and went full DPS for all that content as well.