Maintenance for the week of December 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 8
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 8
I deleted the contents of this post as I do not wish to share the information I posted here anymore.
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Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sheezabeast wrote: »What may be having an idle banker to you, is to someone else, standing afk near dolmens, gaining xp and cp, to sell the account. Where does the line get drawn?
Obviously "sell the account" is not allowed so that line has already been drawn quite clearly. But otherwise, good question, I'd like to know that too. Where does the line draw?Edited by Jayman1000 on August 3, 2018 8:35PM0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think we need an updated statement from an upper-echelon ZOS employee on the definition of multi-boxing, and more specifically, their definition of "playing" since that is the terminology used in the ToS. Until that point, we are all just tossing out our own, personal interpretations of a legal document, and I haven't yet seen someone post that they have a Juris Doctorate, or other ample qualifications for doing so.
I agree. Though you don't need Juris Doctorate to read a TOS. What is written in the TOS is written in the TOS and what is not written in the TOS is not written in the TOS. Further: a good argument is a good argument. These facts are not changed whether you are a Juris Doctorate or not.Edited by Jayman1000 on August 3, 2018 8:40PM1 -
Sovjet✭✭✭So what exactly do you want OP? Try it out and get the result
, we (the community) won't make a difference. For every player that quits, more will join in my name - Molag Bal 2E 5830 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Clearly just looking for a way to get around the TOS. If you are just leaving a character at the bank (or some place else) to make things easy for you, you would have to move it around every few minutes in order to avoid the inactivity logout timer.
The inactivity timer is at least 20 minutes (at least the times I timed it has been). That is a far cry from your "every few minutes". But maybe my account works differently than yours? They should have the same idle kick timers imo.
And no, Im trying to understand the TOS. And can't we just stop accusing eachother of wrongdoings? Isn't it about time that that ended?
Your question is suspicious. There is no valid reason to just leave a character idle in zone while playing on another account. The excuse, it takes to long to log back in, is not valid.2 -
SiegeMerchant✭✭✭btw you still can run multiple ESO on one PC using /runas user
command in Windows0 -
fioskal✭✭✭SiegeMerchant wrote: »btw you still can run multiple ESO on one PC using /runas user
command in Windows
You don't even need to do that. Just open up the launcher and click play, you can easily have as many instances open as your PC can handle.-Fiona-
PC - NA0 -
SiegeMerchant✭✭✭SiegeMerchant wrote: »btw you still can run multiple ESO on one PC using /runas user
command in Windows
You don't even need to do that. Just open up the launcher and click play, you can easily have as many instances open as your PC can handle.
if you click play once, play button become grey0 -
fioskal✭✭✭SiegeMerchant wrote: »SiegeMerchant wrote: »btw you still can run multiple ESO on one PC using /runas user
command in Windows
You don't even need to do that. Just open up the launcher and click play, you can easily have as many instances open as your PC can handle.
if you click play once, play button become grey
Yup, but you can open the launcher again. -Fiona-
PC - NA0 -
Runs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is probably a little more gray area than the other thread since you really aren't benefiting and being separate machines makes it unlikely to every get in trouble for it. As it could be theoretically your spouses account who just enjoys playing the market.
As in all things even slightly questionable, use at your own risk.Runs| Orc Nightblade • Chim-el Adabal| Dunmer Templar • M'air the Honest| Khajiit Templar
Oddity| Altmer Sorceror • Drizlo| Orc DragonKnight • Lady Ra Gada| Redguard Sorceror
Taste-of-Hist-Sap| Argonian Nightblade • War'den Peace| Khajiit Warden • Little Warden Annie Altmer Warden
Ports with Blood| Breton Templar • Dirty-Old-Man| Dunmer DragonKnight • Eyes-of-the-Sun| Argonian DragonKnight
Bleak Mystique| Nord Warden • Polychronopolous| Imperial Sorceror • Bullcrit| Khajiit Nightblade
PC NA CP 1250+ and still a noob
At Writs End - A place to complete master writs0 -
SiegeMerchant✭✭✭SiegeMerchant wrote: »SiegeMerchant wrote: »btw you still can run multiple ESO on one PC using /runas user
command in Windows
You don't even need to do that. Just open up the launcher and click play, you can easily have as many instances open as your PC can handle.
if you click play once, play button become grey
Yup, but you can open the launcher again.
and nothing will happened, only one launcher can be active
tested many times0 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Clearly just looking for a way to get around the TOS. If you are just leaving a character at the bank (or some place else) to make things easy for you, you would have to move it around every few minutes in order to avoid the inactivity logout timer.
The inactivity timer is at least 20 minutes (at least the times I timed it has been). That is a far cry from your "every few minutes". But maybe my account works differently than yours? They should have the same idle kick timers imo.
And no, Im trying to understand the TOS. And can't we just stop accusing eachother of wrongdoings? Isn't it about time that that ended?
Your question is suspicious. There is no valid reason to just leave a character idle in zone while playing on another account. The excuse, it takes to long to log back in, is not valid.
It can be interpreted as suspicious, but that's only based on personal bias from experiences and anecdotes. Why exactly is an excessive period between logging in not a good excuse, barring these suspicions you hold? Plenty of people have computers that take more time than usual to log in, in some cases even up to the auto-log timeout. I've personally had that happen IN a loading screen from the character menu.Edited by Judas Helviaryn on August 3, 2018 10:28PM0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Your question is suspicious. There is no valid reason to just leave a character idle in zone while playing on another account. The excuse, it takes to long to log back in, is not valid.
It's not suspicious, this is just a postulate on your behalf with no sound argument to support it.
I already explained to you several scenarios for why I would want to be logged in to two accounts at a time. You deem my wish to avoid multiple logins a day lasting several minutes as not valid. What do you base that on? Your own experience? I certainly don't find login screens super entertaining to go through, but maybe you do and thus think it is weird for me to give this as a reason. My perfecdt MMO world would be one there had no kick timer, like EVE Online for example. I know that's not possible with ESO, but Im just telling you that this is what I like.
There's nothing "suspicious" about it, I have told you exactly what I would like to do and why I would like to do it. Additionally I have explained that besides the practical reasons in game I am simply curious to debate it, I find it interesting. You go ahead and call all this suspicious, obviously I don't agree.Edited by Jayman1000 on August 3, 2018 11:01PM0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭So what exactly do you want OP? Try it out and get the result , we (the community) won't make a difference.
Two things:
1: I wanted to better understand the TOS, by debating this, hearing ideas, perhaps even quotes from ZOS employees (which I got, albeit old) with clarifications on. For the purpose of determing whether it is allowed or not. I believe I have gotten closer to an answer, though not close enough imo.
2: debate the issue at hand for the sake of debating it, I find the discussion itself interesting.
.Edited by Jayman1000 on August 3, 2018 11:09PM1 -
fioskal✭✭✭SiegeMerchant wrote: »SiegeMerchant wrote: »SiegeMerchant wrote: »btw you still can run multiple ESO on one PC using /runas user
command in Windows
You don't even need to do that. Just open up the launcher and click play, you can easily have as many instances open as your PC can handle.
if you click play once, play button become grey
Yup, but you can open the launcher again.
and nothing will happened, only one launcher can be active
tested many times
You open the launcher, open the game, close the launcher. Then open the launcher again.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/326438633748037632/475083063529963550/2games.PNG
Works for me. :P-Fiona-
PC - NA0 -
Amiona_Star✭✭Man, I wish multiboxing was not allowed in WoW. Was pvp raiding a Alliance city with my guild the other night and boom a 10+ account multiboxer came out of no where and wiped us! It's so crazy. But it is money in Blizzards pockets. Anyway, glad to know its not allowed here!0 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Your question is suspicious. There is no valid reason to just leave a character idle in zone while playing on another account. The excuse, it takes to long to log back in, is not valid.
It's not suspicious, this is just a postulate on your behalf with no sound argument to support it.
I already explained to you several scenarios for why I would want to be logged in to two accounts at a time. You deem my wish to avoid multiple logins a day lasting several minutes as not valid. What do you base that on? Your own experience? I certainly don't find login screens super entertaining to go through, but maybe you do and thus think it is weird for me to give this as a reason. My perfecdt MMO world would be one there had no kick timer, like EVE Online for example. I know that's not possible with ESO, but Im just telling you that this is what I like.
There's nothing "suspicious" about it, I have told you exactly what I would like to do and why I would like to do it. Additionally I have explained that besides the practical reasons in game I am simply curious to debate it, I find it interesting. You go ahead and call all this suspicious, obviously I don't agree.Jayman1000 wrote: »So what exactly do you want OP? Try it out and get the result , we (the community) won't make a difference.
Two things:
1: I wanted to better understand the TOS, by debating this, hearing ideas, perhaps even quotes from ZOS employees (which I got, albeit old) with clarifications on. For the purpose of determing whether it is allowed or not. I believe I have gotten closer to an answer, though not close enough imo.
2: debate the issue at hand for the sake of debating it, I find the discussion itself interesting.
.
What's to better understand? You can't use a third party program to run multiply accounts at the same time. The fact you keep asking this, makes your continued asking, suspicious. It seems like you fishing for answer to a different question.
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Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That's the point. Is playing hammering some commands on the keyboards or does it even include standing there in idle mode?
Tbh nobody cares what playing by the meaning of the word means to you, that's why an official answer would help.0 -
Runs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As I sit at 85 in queue for Vivec, I wonder if I would be allowed to open a new instance of the game and log into the same account but on EU instead of NA and play my character there while my NA character waits to be queued into Cyrodiil.Runs| Orc Nightblade • Chim-el Adabal| Dunmer Templar • M'air the Honest| Khajiit Templar
Oddity| Altmer Sorceror • Drizlo| Orc DragonKnight • Lady Ra Gada| Redguard Sorceror
Taste-of-Hist-Sap| Argonian Nightblade • War'den Peace| Khajiit Warden • Little Warden Annie Altmer Warden
Ports with Blood| Breton Templar • Dirty-Old-Man| Dunmer DragonKnight • Eyes-of-the-Sun| Argonian DragonKnight
Bleak Mystique| Nord Warden • Polychronopolous| Imperial Sorceror • Bullcrit| Khajiit Nightblade
PC NA CP 1250+ and still a noob
At Writs End - A place to complete master writs0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this is really simple. You click on "play" and that means you are playing.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
nickl413✭✭✭✭This argument again eh?
Multi boxing is not simply being logged onto two accounts simultaneously. Multi boxing is not hitting buttons on both machines simultaneously. Multi boxing is using the same mouse and keyboard to control two accounts simultaneously, which generally causes them to do the exact same things, making it easy to detect. This could be done with multi-boxing programs (software) or one may use something physical, like duct taping two mice together (hardware). Software does not mean Windows, and hardware does not simply mean a computer.
From the few responses I've seen from staff regarding this issue in the past, It seems that being logged in to two accounts at the same time is perfectly fine, as long as you are controlling each character yourself, meaning no type of automation is involved. If this wasn't their stance, then every husband/wife, sister/brother, father/son, roommate/roommate that plays from the same IP would already be banned. If they look at you on two different machines, and they look at 2 people playing in the same house, how would they spot the difference?2 -
smacx250✭✭✭✭✭To some extent, it doesn't really matter what is in the ToS about multiboxing, as this little nugget covers any whim ZOS may have to punish you (emphasis mine):
Subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined below), ZeniMax reserves the right, in its sole discretion, (a) to delete or alter any user names tied to an Account; and (b) to restrict, suspend or terminate Your access to any Service or license granted to You, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, any suspected or actual infringement of any trademark or trade name right, copyright, or other proprietary right.
And to comment on this quote from ZOS (emphasis mine):
Multiboxing is the practice of playing multiple accounts simultaneously, including, but not limited to using either hardware or software to facilitate the coordination between the accounts. This violates the intended nature of the gameplay mechanics we've created for ESO.
Whenever you read a statement, which then is followed by "including ...", you can just ignore everything after the word "including" - it is just extra examples that don't really matter. The "coordination" aspect, as far as this statement is concerned, is a meaningless distraction, as it is after the "including". So ZOS has defined multiboxing as "playing" multiple accounts "simultaneously".
What is "playing", from ZOS's perspective? Almost certainly, it is having a character loaded on the server. That is when there is constant communication between the client and server for game world updates, regardless if you are actively manipulating the game controls at any given point in time. That is what updates your "/played" time in game!
"Simultaneously" means "at the same time". So basically, if you have characters loaded onto the game servers on more than one account at the same time - according to ZOS, that's multiboxing.
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Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭What's to better understand? You can't use a third party program to run multiply accounts at the same time. The fact you keep asking this, makes your continued asking, suspicious. It seems like you fishing for answer to a different question.
Why are you talking about third party program to run multiple accounts at the same time? I have never asked about that ... seems like you have misunderstood this whole discussion.2 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭As I sit at 85 in queue for Vivec, I wonder if I would be allowed to open a new instance of the game and log into the same account but on EU instead of NA and play my character there while my NA character waits to be queued into Cyrodiil.
Im pretty sure you cannot be logged in to the same account twice, even if it is for different servers.1 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amiona_Star wrote: »Man, I wish multiboxing was not allowed in WoW. Was pvp raiding a Alliance city with my guild the other night and boom a 10+ account multiboxer came out of no where and wiped us! It's so crazy. But it is money in Blizzards pockets. Anyway, glad to know its not allowed here!
lol, I know this is off topic but a 10 man boxer, hell even a 15-man boxer, in wow should be easy for a 5 man party to take down, especially if said 5 man party is already experienced in pvp. How many were you exactly, and how many did the boxer have? having a group of actual humans controlling and coordinating their own character is a tremendous advantage over a boxer that has to control all 10 all at once.
Aside from that boxing being allowed in wow was/is one of the things I really love about wow. It's awesome doing your own heroics. I wouldn't want in ESO though, but in wow it suits the gameplay perfectly.2 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually would want it here - because running my own "extras" is preferable to me rather than having to listen to people ragging on me about my lag, even after I've informed them that I have horrible lag.
I miss WoW and RIFT for that alone.0 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I actually would want it here - because running my own "extras" is preferable to me rather than having to listen to people ragging on me about my lag, even after I've informed them that I have horrible lag.
I miss WoW and RIFT for that alone.
I didn't get much flak from players over my own satellite connection from launch to July last year when cable finally came into town. I'd try and give people more of a chance.
Also, give enough people rocks, and many of them will build a road with them, but the occasional few will decide to chuck them at you instead. The solution, don't give them rocks. Don't inform them about your lag situation unless it becomes an intractable detriment to their experience.
I found WoW and Rift a lot harder to play than ESO on sattie, personally.
As for the main topic, I'm certainly interested in this myself, though I'll likely never bother purchasing a second machine to do such a thing on. I don't believe it should be against the rules so long as it's one input for one action, there's no automation, and you're manually controlling each account (Which are all kind of saying the same thing threefold).Edited by Judas Helviaryn on August 4, 2018 2:01AM0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »
I found WoW and Rift a lot harder to play than ESO on sattie, personally.
This game is far worse for me than the others, and yet my connection is far better than the last time I played those games.
For one thing, the up and down usage is much higher than on either of those games. Eventually, I'm going to get to a point where I can only play one day a week - because otherwise, I'm going to be throttled except from 3 am to 6 am - and lord knows I could play then, but husband would likely want a divorce - after 43 years.
Now that said, part of the "worse" is that I haven't figured out the "finger pause" setup for combat in ESO yet. I spent 8 years in WoW, and had that down pat. You'd have laughed seeing me keyboard combat probably, but it worked fine for me - because after maybe three months, I got the rotations down and the amount of time to wait before hitting the next key. RIFT was so much like WoW with that it didn't change much at all.
ESO is quite different for me no matter that I've played TES since Arena. I just don't have the "wait time for satellite" figured out yet in this game, and the combat isn't - for me - intuitive.
And no - I'm not using macros etc. It's just the way I micro-manage when to hit a key.... to more or less absorb some of the round-trip delay that satellite produces.
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Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »
I found WoW and Rift a lot harder to play than ESO on sattie, personally.
This game is far worse for me than the others, and yet my connection is far better than the last time I played those games.
For one thing, the up and down usage is much higher than on either of those games. Eventually, I'm going to get to a point where I can only play one day a week - because otherwise, I'm going to be throttled except from 3 am to 6 am - and lord knows I could play then, but husband would likely want a divorce - after 43 years.
Now that said, part of the "worse" is that I haven't figured out the "finger pause" setup for combat in ESO yet. I spent 8 years in WoW, and had that down pat. You'd have laughed seeing me keyboard combat probably, but it worked fine for me - because after maybe three months, I got the rotations down and the amount of time to wait before hitting the next key. RIFT was so much like WoW with that it didn't change much at all.
ESO is quite different for me no matter that I've played TES since Arena. I just don't have the "wait time for satellite" figured out yet in this game, and the combat isn't - for me - intuitive.
And no - I'm not using macros etc. It's just the way I micro-manage when to hit a key.... to more or less absorb some of the round-trip delay that satellite produces.
I definitely wouldn't have suggested you use or were using macros. Those would have done nothing more than screw up your rotation. The finger pause, as you call it, is something I've taken over to normal, cable gameplay, and it's generally not hindered my playstyle one bit.
You can achieve quite a lot with sattie in this game.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »Judas Helviaryn wrote: »
I found WoW and Rift a lot harder to play than ESO on sattie, personally.
This game is far worse for me than the others, and yet my connection is far better than the last time I played those games.
For one thing, the up and down usage is much higher than on either of those games. Eventually, I'm going to get to a point where I can only play one day a week - because otherwise, I'm going to be throttled except from 3 am to 6 am - and lord knows I could play then, but husband would likely want a divorce - after 43 years.
Now that said, part of the "worse" is that I haven't figured out the "finger pause" setup for combat in ESO yet. I spent 8 years in WoW, and had that down pat. You'd have laughed seeing me keyboard combat probably, but it worked fine for me - because after maybe three months, I got the rotations down and the amount of time to wait before hitting the next key. RIFT was so much like WoW with that it didn't change much at all.
ESO is quite different for me no matter that I've played TES since Arena. I just don't have the "wait time for satellite" figured out yet in this game, and the combat isn't - for me - intuitive.
And no - I'm not using macros etc. It's just the way I micro-manage when to hit a key.... to more or less absorb some of the round-trip delay that satellite produces.
I definitely wouldn't have suggested you use or were using macros. Those would have done nothing more than screw up your rotation. The finger pause, as you call it, is something I've taken over to normal, cable gameplay, and it's generally not hindered my playstyle one bit.
You can achieve quite a lot with sattie in this game.
Very true - I just haven't had enough time yet to manage it. There are some things I just can't do at all - a NB trying to get through the "Daughter of Giants" part of the MQ.... ain't hap'nin'.... So she's my crafter main now. Which is only a problem when I need levels of course!
I'm seriously looking into a T1. There's some providers who offer that in this area, for between $190 and $225 or so a month. Right now, we pay over that for direcTV, land-line phone, and my sat. I need to talk to the other guy locally who has one, see what he pays, see how I can work it out.
Regardless, this is a very fun game, and I'm certainly enjoying it!0
