There needs to be a serious change to the openworld meta.

leepalmer95

Gprime31 wrote: »

Just revert to 1.6, cut your losses and try again

Exactly, of course fixing the bugs

The game only went downhill.from there apart from a few good changes. The only proc set was skoria which was used by mag dk's because only that really has the dots for it. There was no putting on dot poisons + sloads and having a character with 4 dots with only 1 dot being an actual skill.

Everyone that hit hard was squishy in return with 18-20k hp being meta.

You had to time ults and skill if you wanted them to land there was no just dumping them on people and 100% getting dmg like soul assault and meteor do now.

There wasn't skills that really went through block/ dodge such as shalk/ curse etc... High dmg skills had counters.

If you timed it right you could purge snipes/ frags as a magplar etc..

Emma_Overload

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I thought this meta was run heavy armour with 35k and run in a zerg?

Shields scaling of magicka along with dmg is the same as Stamina increasing dmg but also heals as well.

You increase the stat pool and gain defensive bonuses in the form of bigger shields or bigger heals.

Heavy has some of the best dmg increasing sets in the game in the form of fury and 7th legion, heavy hardly loses any dmg at all.

You don't need to go out your way to 'build tanky either' Can literally just run 7th, bloodspawn and bone pirate and has just as much stats as any medium armour build while hitting over 30k armour with bloodspawn.

Most nb's are glass canons and for some reason people don't seem to want to use one of the multiple counters in the game for cloak. Aoe's, pots, magelight etc...

I carry detect pots on every character and don't struggle too much with nb's. The only ones i hate are the heavy armour ones that have 28k hp and are pretty much un burstable because like every heavy armour build if you lose line of sight, in this case cloak for 2s they usually heal to full. Plus they hit super hard still.

Thank you for this reality check! This thread was getting really silly with all the crying over heavy armor. These guys are fine... They got nothin to cry about.

Ragnarock41

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

You sure shield spamming or cloak spamming players can’t “stand their ground”?

Highly skilled Sorcs and NBs have no problem taking on 4+ people at the same time.

Same goes for every class. Shields have awful scaling against multiple opponents.

Cloak is useless if you stand your ground since it literally relies on being outside of opponents AoEs to not get hard countered.

No defence is good outnumbered. They do have situational advantages over each other but in general, the meta favours the mobile over the sturdy, since there is too much unmitigateable damage out there.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OP is right but it's just accepted that is how MMOs and fantasy RPGs in general work.

Think about it, the whole idea of having a role dubbed the "tank" that does little damage when actual historical tanks also have devastating firepower is silly.

How it's supposed to work is that "DPS" specs, when caught and subjected to strong attack, should not be able to withstand it, hence the idea of a "glass cannon." But the way ESO works, is while DPS specs can't resist such attacks, they can without too much trouble avoid them. So they can have it both ways: effective power and survivability, albeit through different means than the "tanks."

Unless the DPS specs are willing to accept a nerf to their ability to avoid incoming damage or the community in general is willing to accept that fantasy "tanks" should resemble historical tanks and combine resilience and firepower, the playstyle of "hold your ground" will remain cute and niche as opposed to efficient and versatile.

ESO is not a game where you can apply the holy trinity of heal-dd-tank though.( I mean sure in PvE it barely functions but even then we roll through most vet dungeons with 4 DDs) Especially not in PvP where everybody has the damage, heals, and the tankyness.

And besides, if real life is concerned, heavy armor is pretty realistic I would say. In a real medieval battle you would be suicidal to not take some proper plate armor, and a pretty big round helmet, supported by probably some mail armor inside.

Anyways, back to the topic and game meta, those ''DPS specs'' are dominant in numbers because people go where the grass is green.
The ''stand your whatever'' playstyle got soo many different nerfs that it has gotten to a ridicilous point where SnB Dks/templars are running 3 swift+ expedition so that they can be discount nightblades/sorcs.

If zenimax is afraid that their willy nilly dps players might Ragequit, I don't know what to say though. The best they could do is at least offer a class change token so the message can be clear.

This is a load of ***. Mierda. ***. *** Material. Bull puckey. Crap.

The game literally requires a full on Tank in certain parts of this game. That's a fact jack and the sooner you accept that fact the sooner you realize why it is unfair that Tanks have to deal with this ***. A legitimate tank is really only useful for a few things. Carrying the chaos ball, niche pvp team uses & Trials. That's about it. It is a low reward class spec that essentially means you play other characters to be your moneymakers. They could easily solve this problem by offering us alternate specs for our characters (CP/Skillpoint/morphs/Attributes). Click a button and blam you're ready to actually be a normal character. Click another button and you can be a tank. As it stands though I'm tired of hearing this cockamamy argument that Tanks don't exist in ESO. You people don't know what you're talking about.

No, you're the one resisting to see the truth. I don't care what imaginary version of ESO you play, we do literally %90 of the content without the need for a proper tank or healer. and in PvP this gets even worse for vanilla tanks. Playing a tank is a very sad thing in this game, and it gets worse each patch.

In ESO PvP everyone is his own tank, healer and damage dealer to a degree, nobody with proper PvP knowledge would make a build that completely lacks in one of these aspects.

Pure tanks are absolutely useless as far as open world PvP goes, and utility tanks have value with things like CCs, roots, defiles etc. (also baiting pugs into attacking them), they have their very niche place in some battleground game modes and they do it in such a cancerous way that they caused an nerdrage on forums that ended up with CPs being removed from battlegrounds.(Vanilla, immortal tanks that sit under a flag for an eternity are boring and dumb, oh no, what a shocker, who would have thunk..., I get it, tanks wanna feel immortal, but PvP isn't really the right place for that power fantasy, especially not battlegrounds. Which is why tanking got so many nerfs over PvP)

in the end, I stand by my words, ESO , especially the PvP part, is not a place where you can apply the holy trinity of heal-tank-dd. The lines between these roles are seriously blurred. Cry and call me this or that, as much as you want, It won't change a thing. Dks are not the overpowered battle tanks they once were. Templars are not ridicilous healbots they once were. Nbs and sorcs not as fragile as they once were. This game has changed, and it is you who refuses to accept it.

Edit:I personally would also like having the option to have different ''builds'' with different cp-skills-gear-attribute, that you can swap between, kinda like a talent system or a build editor, so that both me and other tank players can actually enjoy the game without making their main toon a slave , always ready for the DD master race. I'm pretty sure this would decrease the number of fake tanks-healers greatly, as people could just switch with a single button instead of wasting time and gold.

Maryal

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

but you need to take into account the overall game.

you have that idea a little backwards.

there are alot of people who do not agree with you.

you are not and were not speaking for the entire community when you and your friends asked for nerfs.
there are alot more people playing this game that do not agree with what you are asking for.

And who might you be?

@dwemer_paleologist is someone who is knowledgeable, logical, and definitely someone worth listening to (IMO).

Irylia

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Actually, you shouldn’t be able to indiscriminately hold your ground without sacrificing a lot. You can easily stand your ground against 4++ players who are worse than you and even against 2 players of your skill level. It’s not ok to just be able to tank an unlimited number and then be able to get kills also, that’s not even remotely balanced and would then disqualify every single other playstyle available.

There just needs to be less incentive to dog pile on already outnumbered players.

Alright so it’s balanced for me to wear 2 damage sets in heavy + bs and out heal/tank/los most other classes or non mobile classes while still killing and sustaining better than any mag counterpart

Waffennacht

Irylia wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Actually, you shouldn’t be able to indiscriminately hold your ground without sacrificing a lot. You can easily stand your ground against 4++ players who are worse than you and even against 2 players of your skill level. It’s not ok to just be able to tank an unlimited number and then be able to get kills also, that’s not even remotely balanced and would then disqualify every single other playstyle available.

There just needs to be less incentive to dog pile on already outnumbered players.

Alright so it’s balanced for me to wear 2 damage sets in heavy + bs and out heal/tank/los most other classes or non mobile classes while still killing and sustaining better than any mag counterpart

If you can do that, I'd say it's a statement about the lack of skill on your opponent's part rather than a statement about said build.

In general, just check out some Warden PvP tank builds. Very much alive and well.

Block casting still exists remember

CyrusArya

Tanky builds are alive and well. Maybe you’re just not playing em right. Sounds to me like your issue is really just class envy, but I assure you grass is greener on the other side.You are really exaggerating the issue quite a bit, and I don’t have to look beyond the performance of people I play with who run “stand your ground” builds as you put it to know that.

Heavy armor and blocking need no favors or buffs. The only playstyle that really underperforms in this game is medium armor on classes that can’t cloak. And even then, a lot of that can be compensated for with defensive sets.

p00tx

I think there is too much focus on specialization in PvP from some players in this game. PvP is not designed for min/maxing or specialization. You can lean one way or the other, but you're going to be far more successful if you balance your character in Cyrodil. You build for sustain>survival>damage output, then use your battle experience to keep as much pressure as possible on your opponent and hope you can outlast them. Anything else becomes a liability in team play.

Healers must be tanky and able to fight at least minimally. DDs must be able to sustain themselves while killing and need to be able to take a few hits without crumbling. Tanks need to be able to heal or kill, but just being able to withstand damage is not very useful in Cyrodil, in terms of team play. Glass cannons are only good [generally] for one kill before they're dead and needing to be rezed by their team (not helpful), or they're just gankers, and we all know how we feel about them...

PvP and PvE are not even remotely the same animal, and we can't approach them both with the same mindset.

Aedaryl

Skoomah wrote: »

You sure shield spamming or cloak spamming players can’t “stand their ground”?

Highly skilled Sorcs and NBs have no problem taking on 4+ people at the same time.

Highly skilled sorc have no problem on taking 4+ people that die every 4s and only use light attack.

You guys are real noob to think shieldstacking is a good defense for tanking multiple players.

There is nothing worse than shield to tank multiple players. Use your brain. Sorc kite people to make kill, they don't stand their ground.

Also, to OP, stand your ground playstyle is still here, especially for stamwarden and stamdk.

The problem with tanky damage build is not that they are tanky, it's because they are more mobile than a magicka sorc, deal almost the same damage than a non gank rollerblade and are still tanky.

A good stamdk build can easely achive that.

I can help you to build a good stam dk with better mobility than sorc, very good tankiness, good damage and good sustain if you want, the one hwo can tank a lot too.

Icaruzs

Rianai wrote: »

It is much easier to ignore a player who just runs away/hides than to ignore a player who sits right in your face (unless its a ganker - but imo burst from stealth without tell is a different issue and shouldn't be a thing to begin with).
Someone who runs is harmless unless players choose to chase and eventually get picked off. But that's their decision. But i can't decide to not mess with a tank who keeps spamming me with cc, debuffs and/or dmg while sitting in my face, unless i run away, which might as well equal to losing that "fight".
I think that's the main difference between tanking and running and why it can't be treated like the same.

I second this.

evoniee

nb and sorc best open world? rofl.
did you know how tanky and high burst stam warden and stam templar?
play 1vx as stam nb and mag sorc and kill the zerg are super hard nowadays compared to class that i have mentioned.
either you out run them (escape) or cannot kill them at all.

Ragnarock41

evoniee wrote: »

nb and sorc best open world? rofl.
did you know how tanky and high burst stam warden and stam templar?
play 1vx as stam nb and mag sorc and kill the zerg are super hard nowadays compared to class that i have mentioned.
either you out run them (escape) or cannot kill them at all.

My dude, sorry to inform you but if you can't 1vX with stamblade/magsorc, nothing else will feel easier. Especially the thing you wrote in bolded part gives me the impression that you don't quite understand how 1vX'ing works. You will only kill them all when they allow you to kill them all. The key here is that the enemy should be much less experienced/skilled, and must be disorganized and not focused on you.
One good player among the zerg will be enough to mess your day. Mobility and running away is meta right now for 1vX and solo builds in general, the classes that do this best are stamblade for stam, and sorcs for magicka.

And no, you won't eat zergs for breakfast just because you play a stamden. Thats not how it works.

Arthg

Aedaryl wrote: »

I can help you to build a good stam dk with better mobility than sorc, very good tankiness, good damage and good sustain if you want, the one hwo can tank a lot too.

I'm interested.
Can you help me? @Aedaryl

Bashev

The main issue is that the offense skills, healing skills and some defense heals come with your main stat. In this way we do not have extreme glass cannons. If you are build for super damage it means that you can have a super healing too. If you combine that with mobility, you can be very effective. This play-style, as OP said, is way more accepted by the MMO population.

BTW in my opinion, next patch will be dominated by the roll dodge meta. Mage wrath explosion will be finally dodgable and this will be a big bonus. If you pair 7 well fited with impregnable medium armor and slot 3 jeweleries with infused stamina cost reduction you will have extreme survivability and sustain. Put 2 offensive sets and you can enjoy the cheese. The roll dodge could be reduced to 300 stamina in CP campaign, your spamable surprise attack will be 1200 stamina.

ak_pvp

Aedaryl wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

You sure shield spamming or cloak spamming players can’t “stand their ground”?

Highly skilled Sorcs and NBs have no problem taking on 4+ people at the same time.

There is nothing worse than shield to tank multiple players. Use your brain. Sorc kite people to make kill, they don't stand their ground.

Also, to OP, stand your ground playstyle is still here, especially for stamwarden and stamdk.

The problem with tanky damage build is not that they are tanky, it's because they are more mobile than a magicka sorc, deal almost the same damage than a non gank rollerblade and are still tanky.

A good stamdk build can easely achive that.

I can help you to build a good stam dk with better mobility than sorc, very good tankiness, good damage and good sustain if you want, the one hwo can tank a lot too.

Why lie. If this was true, stamDK would be meta. But... they aren't. Stamden can manage, but through a mix of high mobility, defense and damage.

Lets compare stamDK to a sorc. They are maybe the same speed, but survivability is drastically lower on a stamDK than it would be on a magsorc because tanking sucks vs nearly all builds bar magsorc, and even then rune prison exists. Tanking also gimps your mobility, which is why its awful for openworld. The damage is a lot lower, even with full damage sets.

It can't tank a lot, not even 1 bleed build or 2 non completely brainless players. And if it can, its got no damage or chance of killing them.

Savos_Saren

I have seen a lot of "evolution" for the stamDK playstyle. They used to be tankier and stood their ground... but now the stamDKs that I see are roll dodging and very fast. (not stamsorc fast, though)

ak_pvp

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I have seen a lot of "evolution" for the stamDK playstyle. They used to be tankier and stood their ground... but now the stamDKs that I see are roll dodging and very fast. (not stamsorc fast, though)

Yeah, I noticed similar. Not sure how next patch will go, a bit of a divide between wings vs rally. But for this patch in BGs stamDKs are playing like discount stamsorcs. Bleeds spin2win and roll/run away, but obviously not as fast or as damaging. Sort of the like discount magblade on the DK side, slap a few dots, hop around a bit LA+spamming until you can burst. But at melee and with no escape and worse defense.

IZZEFlameLash

Bashev wrote: »

The main issue is that the offense skills, healing skills and some defense heals come with your main stat. In this way we do not have extreme glass cannons. If you are build for super damage it means that you can have a super healing too. If you combine that with mobility, you can be very effective. This play-style, as OP said, is way more accepted by the MMO population.

BTW in my opinion, next patch will be dominated by the roll dodge meta. Mage wrath explosion will be finally dodgable and this will be a big bonus. If you pair 7 well fited with impregnable medium armor and slot 3 jeweleries with infused stamina cost reduction you will have extreme survivability and sustain. Put 2 offensive sets and you can enjoy the cheese. The roll dodge could be reduced to 300 stamina in CP campaign, your spamable surprise attack will be 1200 stamina.

Dodge roll costs can't really drop by that much. And your damage will suffer for sure.

Jeezye

I think one major balancing issue that this game is actualy increasing in is the significance of sets worn. Heavy armor is only strong because most high damage sets are for some *** reason allocated in heavy armor. Also, proc sets once again allow playstyles with limited damage stats but high output because they don't scale. As long as those points aren't addressed we will always have said problems in pvp

Ragnarock41

Jeezye wrote: »

I think one major balancing issue that this game is actualy increasing in is the significance of sets worn. Heavy armor is only strong because most high damage sets are for some *** reason allocated in heavy armor. Also, proc sets once again allow playstyles with limited damage stats but high output because they don't scale. As long as those points aren't addressed we will always have said problems in pvp

They are trying to create variety in gameplay via sets. But sets that give you stats can only be so diverse, and people will only go for which one gives the best overall stats. So they introduce proc sets which in a sense gives you an ability in 5th bonus, but those so called ''abilities'', do not scale like one, so you can have a build with crazy tankyness, or crazy sustain, but still do good damage.

Solariken

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

I think one major balancing issue that this game is actualy increasing in is the significance of sets worn. Heavy armor is only strong because most high damage sets are for some *** reason allocated in heavy armor. Also, proc sets once again allow playstyles with limited damage stats but high output because they don't scale. As long as those points aren't addressed we will always have said problems in pvp

They are trying to create variety in gameplay via sets. But sets that give you stats can only be so diverse, and people will only go for which one gives the best overall stats. So they introduce proc sets which in a sense gives you an ability in 5th bonus, but those so called ''abilities'', do not scale like one, so you can have a build with crazy tankyness, or crazy sustain, but still do good damage.

Yep. Even the most amateur of developers should be able to see the glaring design flaw there.

Bashev

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

The main issue is that the offense skills, healing skills and some defense heals come with your main stat. In this way we do not have extreme glass cannons. If you are build for super damage it means that you can have a super healing too. If you combine that with mobility, you can be very effective. This play-style, as OP said, is way more accepted by the MMO population.

BTW in my opinion, next patch will be dominated by the roll dodge meta. Mage wrath explosion will be finally dodgable and this will be a big bonus. If you pair 7 well fited with impregnable medium armor and slot 3 jeweleries with infused stamina cost reduction you will have extreme survivability and sustain. Put 2 offensive sets and you can enjoy the cheese. The roll dodge could be reduced to 300 stamina in CP campaign, your spamable surprise attack will be 1200 stamina.

Dodge roll costs can't really drop by that much. And your damage will suffer for sure.

Last time I checked the formula first reduced the percentage cost and then the flat cost.
4040*0.72(7 medium)*0.75(CP)*0.60(8 well fitted) = 1309 - 974 (3 infused reduced stamina cost) = 335
Now 5 roll dodges in a row:
335*1.33*1.33*1.33*1.33
335 + 445 + 593 + 788 + 1048 = 3209
It is super cheap. The good thing is that noone did a youtube video how broken it is. This build synergizes so well with the reduction of the cost of the skills that it is 10 times better than the block cost reduction builds.

Millz

Its not really tanky builds that are bad, you have to sacrifice a lot to be in one of these builds yes but take for example the sloads warden health tank build. I mean thats one of these most annoying builds right now in the game and can do damage as well through procs of course.

Just because you wear heavy doesnt make you a "tank" I feel people are missing that, I'd say actually having 35k ish health would help with surviving burst and of course other things play into this.

You know ive made posts about this I still believe they need to buff medium armor and OVERALL damage in general. Besides light armor they have plenty of damage right now, I think sorc shield could use a nerf and or rework to a projectile based (hate me but its an opinion). Anyways im rambling going to go do life stuff take care lol

Lexxypwns

Irylia wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Actually, you shouldn’t be able to indiscriminately hold your ground without sacrificing a lot. You can easily stand your ground against 4++ players who are worse than you and even against 2 players of your skill level. It’s not ok to just be able to tank an unlimited number and then be able to get kills also, that’s not even remotely balanced and would then disqualify every single other playstyle available.

There just needs to be less incentive to dog pile on already outnumbered players.

Alright so it’s balanced for me to wear 2 damage sets in heavy + bs and out heal/tank/los most other classes or non mobile classes while still killing and sustaining better than any mag counterpart

Did you read what I said?

You’re intentionally being very abstract in your comment to avoid a real discussion. There’s just so many variables in that question but virtually no information.

thankyourat

The thing about open world PvP especially solo PvP is trying to be a jack of all trades. If you build extremely tanky or stack everything into mobility your build will still be weak. You need a combination of both. It doesn't matter how mobile you are if one snipe puts you into execute range. And if you don't build any mobility you will eventually get zerged down. If you want to play open world you need to build for open world. There isn't really a open world meta because good open world builds have a balance of everything. You should not be able to stack everything into standing your ground and just holding block and be able to do well in solo PvP because you're build is too specialized.

Ragnarock41

thankyourat wrote: »

The thing about open world PvP especially solo PvP is trying to be a jack of all trades. If you build extremely tanky or stack everything into mobility your build will still be weak. You need a combination of both. It doesn't matter how mobile you are if one snipe puts you into execute range. And if you don't build any mobility you will eventually get zerged down. If you want to play open world you need to build for open world. There isn't really a open world meta because good open world builds have a balance of everything. You should not be able to stack everything into standing your ground and just holding block and be able to do well in solo PvP because you're build is too specialized.

And what does this even have to do with the fact that a build with 25k hp takes just 3-4 seconds to melt with a bleed build?

Yes, you shouldn't be able to just hold block and 1vX, but do you realize how weak and pathetic blocking is nowadays?

IZZEFlameLash

Bashev wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

The main issue is that the offense skills, healing skills and some defense heals come with your main stat. In this way we do not have extreme glass cannons. If you are build for super damage it means that you can have a super healing too. If you combine that with mobility, you can be very effective. This play-style, as OP said, is way more accepted by the MMO population.

BTW in my opinion, next patch will be dominated by the roll dodge meta. Mage wrath explosion will be finally dodgable and this will be a big bonus. If you pair 7 well fited with impregnable medium armor and slot 3 jeweleries with infused stamina cost reduction you will have extreme survivability and sustain. Put 2 offensive sets and you can enjoy the cheese. The roll dodge could be reduced to 300 stamina in CP campaign, your spamable surprise attack will be 1200 stamina.

Dodge roll costs can't really drop by that much. And your damage will suffer for sure.

Last time I checked the formula first reduced the percentage cost and then the flat cost.
4040*0.72(7 medium)*0.75(CP)*0.60(8 well fitted) = 1309 - 974 (3 infused reduced stamina cost) = 335
Now 5 roll dodges in a row:
335*1.33*1.33*1.33*1.33
335 + 445 + 593 + 788 + 1048 = 3209
It is super cheap. The good thing is that noone did a youtube video how broken it is. This build synergizes so well with the reduction of the cost of the skills that it is 10 times better than the block cost reduction builds.

Cost reduction in general always are subtracted first from the base cost. It's always been this way I believe. That is how it functions to skill cost reductions. Which is why percentage based reduction stacking on top of base cost reduction isn't really advised I believe.

thankyourat

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The thing about open world PvP especially solo PvP is trying to be a jack of all trades. If you build extremely tanky or stack everything into mobility your build will still be weak. You need a combination of both. It doesn't matter how mobile you are if one snipe puts you into execute range. And if you don't build any mobility you will eventually get zerged down. If you want to play open world you need to build for open world. There isn't really a open world meta because good open world builds have a balance of everything. You should not be able to stack everything into standing your ground and just holding block and be able to do well in solo PvP because you're build is too specialized.

And what does this even have to do with the fact that a build with 25k hp takes just 3-4 seconds to melt with a bleed build?

Yes, you shouldn't be able to just hold block and 1vX, but do you realize how weak and pathetic blocking is nowadays?

Blocking is in no way weak it's not the end all be all that it was 2 years ago but it's still good. You also should not melt to anything in 4 seconds if you build a proper 1vX build. Blocking is still very viable but you need additional defenses to stack with block. That's pretty much every class. My argument is the 1vX meta is a combination of stand your ground and mobility and not one or the other. People posting here seem to think mobility by itself will keep you alive when in reality you need to build to be able to stand your ground as well. Bless are strong against everything though

Ragnarock41

thankyourat wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The thing about open world PvP especially solo PvP is trying to be a jack of all trades. If you build extremely tanky or stack everything into mobility your build will still be weak. You need a combination of both. It doesn't matter how mobile you are if one snipe puts you into execute range. And if you don't build any mobility you will eventually get zerged down. If you want to play open world you need to build for open world. There isn't really a open world meta because good open world builds have a balance of everything. You should not be able to stack everything into standing your ground and just holding block and be able to do well in solo PvP because you're build is too specialized.

And what does this even have to do with the fact that a build with 25k hp takes just 3-4 seconds to melt with a bleed build?

Yes, you shouldn't be able to just hold block and 1vX, but do you realize how weak and pathetic blocking is nowadays?

Blocking is in no way weak it's not the end all be all that it was 2 years ago but it's still good. You also should not melt to anything in 4 seconds if you build a proper 1vX build. Blocking is still very viable but you need additional defenses to stack with block. That's pretty much every class. My argument is the 1vX meta is a combination of stand your ground and mobility and not one or the other. People posting here seem to think mobility by itself will keep you alive when in reality you need to build to be able to stand your ground as well. Bless are strong against everything though

Blocking is weak. There, I said it. Its weak. literally unsustainable, especially in non-cp. Explain to me how do I counterbuild against bleeds, sloads, magsorcs with their no counterplay combo, so on and so on. Yes, I combine mobility and blocking. But guess what, %99 of the time I'm not even touching block. I only do it as a last resort sort of thing. Block is that worthless, and SnB is used as a weapon cause of defile+proper spammable and good passives , not for the ability to block better.

Just yesterday I died to a bleed stamblade , got 100-0'd in about 4 to 5 seconds, despite blocking+popping corrosive armor(which costs 200 ultimate points fyi), I had full uptime on my vigor but the defile was so much I couldn't even heal for anything..

my recap had 1 sload and 4 different bleeds. What am I to do against this? Wardens have minor protection, major protection, free major mending, burst heals, what do Dks get? more block. oh great. amazing. If only I could actually sustain while blocking, like, back when stamDk was doing what it should be doing instead of being discount stamblade?

ak_pvp

Irylia wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Actually, you shouldn’t be able to indiscriminately hold your ground without sacrificing a lot. You can easily stand your ground against 4++ players who are worse than you and even against 2 players of your skill level. It’s not ok to just be able to tank an unlimited number and then be able to get kills also, that’s not even remotely balanced and would then disqualify every single other playstyle available.

There just needs to be less incentive to dog pile on already outnumbered players.

Alright so it’s balanced for me to wear 2 damage sets in heavy + bs and out heal/tank/los most other classes or non mobile classes while still killing and sustaining better than any mag counterpart

That is basically warden only though. And everyone knows they are overtuned. Speaking strictly for solo/duo and not minizerg with dedicated heals.

On a stamDK you almost have to go heavy, and lose damage and mobility compared to other classes (mobility including escape, and mainly vs stam classes) for a weak defense.
And for mag the meta speaks for itself, yeah there are niches but its almost all light because heavy has a bad def:off tradeoff. You lose a lot of damage and don't gain much over a shieldy build.