well I took a stamblade all the way up to cp160.......its SUCKED for DPS(maybe it was just me and my playstyle). Anyway I recently respec-ed as a magica healer. I do more DPS animation cancelling light attack to funnel health than I ever got when I was stam DPS doing uppercut even from stealth with all my passives.
Personally I find the skill-lines to be fairly challenging since most of it revolves around debuffs & DOT's.....I have yet to experience this meta OP burst damage everyone talks about.
Granted I never really do any PVP so its purely from a PvE perspective.
I originally chose a nightblade because I liked the idea of rouge assassin and archer etc.....then everyone started playing NB.
usmcjdking wrote: »NBs need a tiny bit of rebalancing. Nothing dramatic.
Something which immediately come to mind are moving the ult generation passive away from Siphoning. No other class gets ult gen from it spammable. Moving it to Assassination would be the best method IMO. You could still get max return on ult gen due to Grim Resolve.
SmellyUnlimited wrote: »Competitive end game guilds are more and more looking to Magblades to fill out the majority of DPS in a trial. Outside of VAS, stam can come in, but usually at most 3,and Stamblades at that.
So you look through a group comp, and you’ll likely see 8 NB’s, 2DK (tanks). 2 Templar (healers). No class changes or rebalancing has affected this yet, nor appears to be. Sometimes they’ll allow one MagSorc in the group for providing the Asylum weapon procs, but that’s the one anomaly.
I’d like to see this next meta be representative of the community, not simply of a class, where people felt compelled then to all make Magblades just to participate in end game content.
DuskMarine wrote: »SmellyUnlimited wrote: »Competitive end game guilds are more and more looking to Magblades to fill out the majority of DPS in a trial. Outside of VAS, stam can come in, but usually at most 3,and Stamblades at that.
So you look through a group comp, and you’ll likely see 8 NB’s, 2DK (tanks). 2 Templar (healers). No class changes or rebalancing has affected this yet, nor appears to be. Sometimes they’ll allow one MagSorc in the group for providing the Asylum weapon procs, but that’s the one anomaly.
I’d like to see this next meta be representative of the community, not simply of a class, where people felt compelled then to all make Magblades just to participate in end game content.
nightblade meta?? you mean we left the sorc meta thats owned the game forever? its always been meta sorcs cause sorcs are the most overpowered easy class to run.
John_Falstaff wrote: »@kaithuzar , so, just to be clear, when "a lot" of people crying for support class, then their wishes must be satisfied, and that's okay by you. So, right now a lot of people are crying to nerf nightblades - should we satisfy them now, too? (In short: no, we shouldn't.) So point in case - a bunch of people crying on forums for support class isn't a reason of taking an existing one and make it only fit for support, ninja style. For all I know, people cry for nightblades to be made viable tanks; how'd you feel if nightblades could -only- tank well, and be mediocre at everything else? So there.It doesn't mean that dks are tanks only. You still can setup one as a dd or...heal. If they are not as viable as other classes in these roles – well, it still counts. Renaming "Dragonknight" to "PvE Tank" will lead to confusion.
More than that, not all the players are doing vTrials or vMA.
But let's be honest, how many patches we see majority of dds in vTrials as a mag ones? And DKs – they always were the best tanks for like any content in this game. Is this a problem? I guess. I don't really care, if I want to go to vTrial with my stamblade – you know, I'll do it.
Point in case - no, it doesn't count. If class isn't viable in some role, if it's locked out of a chunk of content (content people paid for, and keep paying for), without any sort of notice - why, then people have been fooled. You're the one voting for classes not to be equal - so we'd better reflect inequality in text, during character creation. Otherwise, there -is- a confusion. And no, it's not an excuse that not everyone wants to do vtrials or vMA. It's the capability that matters - when people create a character, they don't know in advance what content they want to try, and since ZOS' states "play as you like", well, they'd better be given equal opportunities. You may not care, others do; you may not see a problem, others see it.
And yes, just to see a problem, make a stam DK, and try to get on a score run in vCR or vHoF.
well I took a stamblade all the way up to cp160.......its SUCKED for DPS(maybe it was just me and my playstyle). Anyway I recently respec-ed as a magica healer. I do more DPS animation cancelling light attack to funnel health than I ever got when I was stam DPS doing uppercut even from stealth with all my passives.
Personally I find the skill-lines to be fairly challenging since most of it revolves around debuffs & DOT's.....I have yet to experience this meta OP burst damage everyone talks about.
Granted I never really do any PVP so its purely from a PvE perspective.
I originally chose a nightblade because I liked the idea of rouge assassin and archer etc.....then everyone started playing NB.
usmcjdking wrote: »NBs need a tiny bit of rebalancing. Nothing dramatic.
Something which immediately come to mind are moving the ult generation passive away from Siphoning. No other class gets ult gen from it spammable. Moving it to Assassination would be the best method IMO. You could still get max return on ult gen due to Grim Resolve.
That's actually a great idea.
DuskMarine wrote: »SmellyUnlimited wrote: »Competitive end game guilds are more and more looking to Magblades to fill out the majority of DPS in a trial. Outside of VAS, stam can come in, but usually at most 3,and Stamblades at that.
So you look through a group comp, and you’ll likely see 8 NB’s, 2DK (tanks). 2 Templar (healers). No class changes or rebalancing has affected this yet, nor appears to be. Sometimes they’ll allow one MagSorc in the group for providing the Asylum weapon procs, but that’s the one anomaly.
I’d like to see this next meta be representative of the community, not simply of a class, where people felt compelled then to all make Magblades just to participate in end game content.
nightblade meta?? you mean we left the sorc meta thats owned the game forever? its always been meta sorcs cause sorcs are the most overpowered easy class to run.
RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »At first I thought this thread was a joke, and then I realized you were talking about PvE. Yeah, you're right lol.
I'm actually all for Nightblades being top in DPS because they need to be in order to justify the difficulty of their rotation. The self healing of magblades is pretty over the top though. Yeah their damage needs to be higher, but they kind of have it too good.
Their rotation is not more difficult, it's simply their rotation guides players towards more dynamic game-play. ANY class can and should be played dynamically to maximize DPS. However a mage-blade can be driven under a static rotation and still pull higher DPS than other classes. This all comes down to experience.
DuskMarine wrote: »SmellyUnlimited wrote: »Competitive end game guilds are more and more looking to Magblades to fill out the majority of DPS in a trial. Outside of VAS, stam can come in, but usually at most 3,and Stamblades at that.
So you look through a group comp, and you’ll likely see 8 NB’s, 2DK (tanks). 2 Templar (healers). No class changes or rebalancing has affected this yet, nor appears to be. Sometimes they’ll allow one MagSorc in the group for providing the Asylum weapon procs, but that’s the one anomaly.
I’d like to see this next meta be representative of the community, not simply of a class, where people felt compelled then to all make Magblades just to participate in end game content.
nightblade meta?? you mean we left the sorc meta thats owned the game forever? its always been meta sorcs cause sorcs are the most overpowered easy class to run.
Sorcs haven't been meta since homestead. How long is that? Year and a half?
RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »At first I thought this thread was a joke, and then I realized you were talking about PvE. Yeah, you're right lol.
I'm actually all for Nightblades being top in DPS because they need to be in order to justify the difficulty of their rotation. The self healing of magblades is pretty over the top though. Yeah their damage needs to be higher, but they kind of have it too good.
Their rotation is not more difficult, it's simply their rotation guides players towards more dynamic game-play. ANY class can and should be played dynamically to maximize DPS. However a mage-blade can be driven under a static rotation and still pull higher DPS than other classes. This all comes down to experience.
i highly doubt a STRICTLY static magblade rotation will break 46k solo 6mil and my magsorc is parsing 47k solo on live accounting for minor berserk so your statement is questionable. I've reached 49k solo 6mil on my magblade but i can say that took A LOT of work. i was stuck at 45 46k ish for the longest time and almost decided to just stick with magsorc.
this magblade meta is different from the magsorc meta back in homestead because magsorcs (specifically the OP pets back then) are brain dead bandwagon-friendly setups that anyone can pick up and have good results. In contrast outside of elite guild folks my magsorc is outparsing every single magblade i've enocuntered, sometimes by a large margin.
i'll be honest it amuses me to no end whenever i see ppl worship magblades when they cant even come close to my magsorc. That's why imo magblade's "dominance" is justified because the rotation is significantly harder and its just not for everyone. Theres really only a tiny percentage of ESO population that can fully utilize the complex kit of a magblade.
SmellyUnlimited wrote: »And for god sakes, give Stam dps an ounce of survivability in medium armor. Swap sneak speed for dodge chance (doesn’t have to be very high, just some survivability). Trying to fit Shuffle in as near impossible, not to mention its prohibitive stam cost. Blade cloak already got nerfed, so the impetus to use it went away. Personally I still use it, since 25% AoE mitigation is too good to pass up, but it was never overperforming; simply gave Stamina one viable way to mitigate damage.
Shinshadow wrote: »How about this, we just "kill the meta", by us no longer talking about what is "best in slot, best race, best skills" If people just played how they wanted to, and stopped bandwagon jumping, things might be a lot more fun / less toxic for everyone :-)
DuskMarine wrote: »SmellyUnlimited wrote: »Competitive end game guilds are more and more looking to Magblades to fill out the majority of DPS in a trial. Outside of VAS, stam can come in, but usually at most 3,and Stamblades at that.
So you look through a group comp, and you’ll likely see 8 NB’s, 2DK (tanks). 2 Templar (healers). No class changes or rebalancing has affected this yet, nor appears to be. Sometimes they’ll allow one MagSorc in the group for providing the Asylum weapon procs, but that’s the one anomaly.
I’d like to see this next meta be representative of the community, not simply of a class, where people felt compelled then to all make Magblades just to participate in end game content.
nightblade meta?? you mean we left the sorc meta thats owned the game forever? its always been meta sorcs cause sorcs are the most overpowered easy class to run.
Sorcs haven't been meta since homestead. How long is that? Year and a half?
RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »At first I thought this thread was a joke, and then I realized you were talking about PvE. Yeah, you're right lol.
I'm actually all for Nightblades being top in DPS because they need to be in order to justify the difficulty of their rotation. The self healing of magblades is pretty over the top though. Yeah their damage needs to be higher, but they kind of have it too good.
Their rotation is not more difficult, it's simply their rotation guides players towards more dynamic game-play. ANY class can and should be played dynamically to maximize DPS. However a mage-blade can be driven under a static rotation and still pull higher DPS than other classes. This all comes down to experience.
i highly doubt a STRICTLY static magblade rotation will break 46k solo 6mil and my magsorc is parsing 47k solo on live accounting for minor berserk so your statement is questionable. I've reached 49k solo 6mil on my magblade but i can say that took A LOT of work. i was stuck at 45 46k ish for the longest time and almost decided to just stick with magsorc.
this magblade meta is different from the magsorc meta back in homestead because magsorcs (specifically the OP pets back then) are brain dead bandwagon-friendly setups that anyone can pick up and have good results. In contrast outside of elite guild folks my magsorc is outparsing every single magblade i've enocuntered, sometimes by a large margin.
i'll be honest it amuses me to no end whenever i see ppl worship magblades when they cant even come close to my magsorc. That's why imo magblade's "dominance" is justified because the rotation is significantly harder and its just not for everyone. Theres really only a tiny percentage of ESO population that can fully utilize the complex kit of a magblade.
stuck at 39K dps on my mag sorc, it's my main and i play this char since beta.
recently i made a MagNB, I miss some passives abilities, Accelerate isn't morphed, and i have no idea how to play this class, my dot uptimes were garbage, 45K first try on dummy then 45.5K, + the sustain is awesome ( no need to spam HA constantly unlike sorc, cause ...siphoning attacks).
I have NB , DK and Sorc DPS , but I rare to play NB now , it's more difficult to me .
I like to play StamDK , easy rotation and high sustain , I like to play Pet Sorc for dungeon achievement , easy rotation , powerful and high survivability .
What I wanna say is no pain and no gain .
This is wrong that you request to nerf a class which requires to play hard .
MLGProPlayer wrote: »I have NB , DK and Sorc DPS , but I rare to play NB now , it's more difficult to me .
I like to play StamDK , easy rotation and high sustain , I like to play Pet Sorc for dungeon achievement , easy rotation , powerful and high survivability .
What I wanna say is no pain and no gain .
This is wrong that you request to nerf a class which requires to play hard .
Warden rotation is just as hard as NB rotation to pull off, yet they have the lowest DPS in the game. Rotation difficulty should have nothing to do with DPS.
John_Falstaff wrote: »@Shinshadow - the problem is, in this particular case, it's not just about toxic meta-minded people. The problem is very real, it's not just in people's heads. A lot of classes and builds (as a terminal case, all melee stamina) is having trouble pulling their weight in new trials (dungeons too; and wait for March of Sacrifices where you're punished for not having shields and good self-healing). SmellyUnlimited is right, nobody would enjoy struggling for hours in new content while they could just grab a team of magblades and/or magsorcs and breeze through it.
well I took a stamblade all the way up to cp160.......its SUCKED for DPS(maybe it was just me and my playstyle). Anyway I recently respec-ed as a magica healer. I do more DPS animation cancelling light attack to funnel health than I ever got when I was stam DPS doing uppercut even from stealth with all my passives.
Personally I find the skill-lines to be fairly challenging since most of it revolves around debuffs & DOT's.....I have yet to experience this meta OP burst damage everyone talks about.
Granted I never really do any PVP so its purely from a PvE perspective.
I originally chose a nightblade because I liked the idea of rouge assassin and archer etc.....then everyone started playing NB.
Nightblades have the lowest floor and the highest ceiling.
Inexperienced players will struggle to pull any dps on a magblade, inexperienced magsorcs will easily pull a lot higher.
Nightblade sustain AND damage comes from weaving properly and execute.
If you can't weave then you cant sustain, you don't get enough bow procs, your damage is pitiful, you wont make it to execute. On a sorc weaving is just damage, sustain isn't from weaving (they do need love on sustain, seriously) & frags procs from using skills not weaving.
Sorcs you can optionally run 2 pets and just heavy attack, no monitoring buffs/debuffs/procs/spammables/weaving and still pull endgame dps.
Plus sorcs have 1 buff (Trap) & 3 DoTs. Nightblades have 3 buffs (focus, siphoning, trap) and 3 DoTs.
The answer isn't to nerf nightblades, it's to buff other classes (Sorc sustain, DK range and sustain, Warden everything etc...)
LiquidPony wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »SmellyUnlimited wrote: »Competitive end game guilds are more and more looking to Magblades to fill out the majority of DPS in a trial. Outside of VAS, stam can come in, but usually at most 3,and Stamblades at that.
So you look through a group comp, and you’ll likely see 8 NB’s, 2DK (tanks). 2 Templar (healers). No class changes or rebalancing has affected this yet, nor appears to be. Sometimes they’ll allow one MagSorc in the group for providing the Asylum weapon procs, but that’s the one anomaly.
I’d like to see this next meta be representative of the community, not simply of a class, where people felt compelled then to all make Magblades just to participate in end game content.
nightblade meta?? you mean we left the sorc meta thats owned the game forever? its always been meta sorcs cause sorcs are the most overpowered easy class to run.
Sorcs haven't been meta since homestead. How long is that? Year and a half?
https://esoleaderboards.com/archive/8/HOF
More sorcs on the last HoF leaderboard pull before Horns of the Reach than any other class (241 sorcs to 136 nightblades, btw). Same story in MoL: https://esoleaderboards.com/archive/8/MOL, where you've got 356 sorcs and 138 nightblades. This was before we fully transitioned into the "as many stamDKs as possible" meta, which then transitioned into the nightblade meta.
So, certainly hasn't been a year and a half. Even on the last leaderboards saved before Clockwork City, the only class more prevalent than sorcerers was the DK (which of course is always a bit skewed because most groups have 2 DK tanks).