MagSorc Balance Ideas

cpuScientist

Heyo, I have been a magSorc main for AGES. I have all the other classes a Stam and mag version. And play tem regularly but I've always come back to Sorc. However in this most recent patch, it has be unplayable for me. It is too obviously overpowered, very much overperforming. I have some ideas I'd like to present to the community though.

So real quick. MagSorc was designed around the frag stun. Your big burst was also your only really good CC, so ZOS gave us curse and wrath as delayed burst since it was very hit and miss with our stun. So we wouldn't always land our execute and our big burst ability. Now however we have a delayed execute delayed burst in curse delayed ulti with meteor and a stun that always lands and is very winky to break free of with a weird delay. So we will always land the entire combo, the frag stun which provided the counterplay is done away with.

Where oter classes have to choose what to use after their stun, whether to ulti burst or execute. Sorcs have it easy with once choice. Frag. What once was the big avoidable burst is now an instant hit. So I have a few proposals for this issue.

FIRST AND FOREMOST. Make this CC easier to break out of and not have that weird travel delay. It should be as easy to break as unmorphed fossilize. Instant and then break is easy.

Ok that out of the way here are my thoughts.

1. Delete the skill, make it a dot leave defensive rune as is but make cage and it's pre morph just a dot with a weak slow or something and put the stun back in frag. It would give us a source of healing with the passive. This would add a dot to pve perhaps unbalancing perhaps not. Honestly the point is CC back on frag and just delete cage.
2. This is twofold. One again fix the break free and all that, leave the damage make it 3 second stun. But make mages wrath proc at 25% health but not be delayed anymore. This would be a fundemental change yes. But it mean that sorcs have to choose, to frag or execute after the CC instead of only fragging. It would take some of the burst out of the combo and make it a little harder to kill but still strong. PvE is slightly affected with the slightly earlier execute percentage. This would still leave magSorc in a very strong spot. This would appease the BG masses as well.

What does everyone think of these ideas especially number 2. Please leave constructive feedback.

Mayrael

cpuScientist wrote: »

Heyo, I have been a magSorc main for AGES. I have all the other classes a Stam and mag version. And play tem regularly but I've always come back to Sorc. However in this most recent patch, it has be unplayable for me. It is too obviously overpowered, very much overperforming. I have some ideas I'd like to present to the community though.

So real quick. MagSorc was designed around the frag stun. Your big burst was also your only really good CC, so ZOS gave us curse and wrath as delayed burst since it was very hit and miss with our stun. So we wouldn't always land our execute and our big burst ability. Now however we have a delayed execute delayed burst in curse delayed ulti with meteor and a stun that always lands and is very winky to break free of with a weird delay. So we will always land the entire combo, the frag stun which provided the counterplay is done away with.

Where oter classes have to choose what to use after their stun, whether to ulti burst or execute. Sorcs have it easy with once choice. Frag. What once was the big avoidable burst is now an instant hit. So I have a few proposals for this issue.

FIRST AND FOREMOST. Make this CC easier to break out of and not have that weird travel delay. It should be as easy to break as unmorphed fossilize. Instant and then break is easy.

Ok that out of the way here are my thoughts.

1. Delete the skill, make it a dot leave defensive rune as is but make cage and it's pre morph just a dot with a weak slow or something and put the stun back in frag. It would give us a source of healing with the passive. This would add a dot to pve perhaps unbalancing perhaps not. Honestly the point is CC back on frag and just delete cage.
2. This is twofold. One again fix the break free and all that, leave the damage make it 3 second stun. But make mages wrath proc at 25% health but not be delayed anymore. This would be a fundemental change yes. But it mean that sorcs have to choose, to frag or execute after the CC instead of only fragging. It would take some of the burst out of the combo and make it a little harder to kill but still strong. PvE is slightly affected with the slightly earlier execute percentage. This would still leave magSorc in a very strong spot. This would appease the BG masses as well.

What does everyone think of these ideas especially number 2. Please leave constructive feedback.

I have played sorc for many years to and still do from time to time. Interesting ideas. I won't say it's terribad or awesome, I just think it would be worth the try. About number 1. @Derra had good idea to put unblockable stun into streak or BoL (short/mid range, short duration, increasing cost on spam) and rework completely rune cage.

About number 2. I really don't think thats a good idea. It's one of the fundamental skills for mag sorc, this whole class is built around delayed burst, without it it will be the worst DD class in PvP. Issue with sorcs is not their damage combo (before rune cage spread sorcs was pretty in line when it goes to killing people) but no other way of defense than shieldstacking. Change shields into minor/major buff system, buff strength of single shields a bit, give sorc better, more reliable way of healing than constantly dying pet that uses 2 skill slots, heal based on critical damage dealt or cast time medium strength heal.

Galarthor

For that to work the damage on the Frag has to be increased.

Remember, back when the classes were designed there was no tank meta. The problem nowadays is, that people are oftentimes too tanky to die to the stacked burst and that's a problem for builds that rely on killing people by stacking burst. Because unlike builds that a designed to wear their opponents out over time, you won't be able to kill your target at a later point in time if your stacked burst potential is lower than their HP after mitigation. And CFrag has take some hits in the past, so it is not the burst it used to be. And you also have to keep in mind that the other classes / builds changed as well.

The second issue with that is the perma-dodgers. Especially how dodge can be weaved with abilities. Sorcs always struggled against perma-dodgers because except for your Curse most abilities would not hit. And it is really difficult to stack your burst if you cannot hit the target.

Rune Cage is the only means for magSorcs to deal with perma-blockers and perma-dodgers. If you want to change rune cage, then you will either have to provide alternative tools to deal with these builds (and the tank meta) or you will have to fix those game mechanics at the same time.

But either way, the responsiveness of Rune Cage to break-free needs to change. The stun time, which many people see as too high, is irrelevant. If you remain the full 5 sec in the CC then something is wrong with you and potentially also with the sorc stunning you.

Jsmalls

@Galarthor

That's exactly the key pain point of a MagSorc. Our sustained damage is on a 4 second cooldown. We have no good damage over time abilities to create pressure. And when you give a nasty burst with our entire setup we don't have anything to follow up with if the target has enough health to be in a 35-45% range after burst. What's so devastating this update is we have the ability to actually use meteor. Before a meteor would be blocked EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. and it's the only Ultimate available to us to aid in killing tank meta. And the fact that magSorcs are packing up players that are used to requiring 2+ players to kill them is probably what's causing all the buzz (have seen it all over the forums... I have 28k health and I was one shot by a MagSorc this game is now broken... No you were what's broken with the game to begin with). Now I can see how a MagSorc using this setup on other players is a problem, they have no chance to survive and honestly it's just dirty.

But let's not ignore the real problem in this game... This game has become who can survive who the longest and wait for assistance from other players. Once upon a time players built to kill quickly, and actively defend. Not passively defend with 28k health, 15% reduced incoming damage (minor main), 28k resistance, and holding block every other global cooldown...

Galarthor

I don't think it is such a good idea to start mixing up the two different DPS concepts. If you don't want sorc to excell at both (which I am pretty sure all other classes don't want to!) then that means that sorcs will be a jack of all trade but a master of none. The burst potential will not be enough to kill even bad players and neither will the sustained DPS pressure. The continuous damage will just be outhealed as it occurs and the burst damage will just be survived b/c damage <<<<HP.

Twohothardware

The CC on Rune Cage definitely needs to go and imo they need to lose access to running Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka together or at the very least Bastion needs to be nerfed since it somehow escaped all the CP nerfs last year.

MagSorc is dealing too much damage now that Staffs count as two pieces and you combine that with being able to shield stack with near infinite sustain and have an on demand hard CC from 28 meters it's just too much.

ezio45

I am a fan of the first idea, wrath losing its delay tho would cause a big problem for the class.

rune cage being converted into a dot is a really great idea to deal with several problems sorcs face. It would increase pve damage helping close the cap between nbs who are pulling around 10k more average dps than sorcs. In pvp it serves as a great way to heal with surge, where the rest of heals available to sorcs are lacking or outright unusable. As for the stun runecage's needs to be weakened or favorably removed and Cfrag needs its stun back and they need to make cfrag the go to stun for regular combat, leaving runecage as a multi functional still to first and for most be used for healing and secondly to help deal with tanker builds which sorcs struggle with due to the classes complete lack of pressure, this could add enough pressure to put tanks into a range that could be killed with sorcs burst combo. The reason I say removing the stun on runecage is the favorable option is because it would mean the cc immunity from runecage would interfere with the stun on cfrag doing its job it you applied rune cage prior for healing.

The mages wrath idea isnt good because the delay on it is a vital part pf the burst combo at the core of every magsorc build. You need curse and cfrag to hit at the same time immediately proc'ing wrath. Having to choose between cfrag and wrath would result in sorcs not being able to kill anything. The problem is the classes lack of pressure means burst that isnt well timed is easily healed thru with with pretty much anything. Its why sorcs struggle so much with tanks, we cant get them into execute before they can heal. If you time curse and frag poorly as is, you will have an impossible time getting anything into execute, forcing wrath to take place after the combo allows a giant hole for the entire combo to be rendered useless.

cpuScientist

ezio45 wrote: »

I am a fan of the first idea, wrath losing its delay tho would cause a big problem for the class.

rune cage being converted into a dot is a really great idea to deal with several problems sorcs face. It would increase pve damage helping close the cap between nbs who are pulling around 10k more average dps than sorcs. In pvp it serves as a great way to heal with surge, where the rest of heals available to sorcs are lacking or outright unusable. As for the stun runecage's needs to be weakened or favorably removed and Cfrag needs its stun back and they need to make cfrag the go to stun for regular combat, leaving runecage as a multi functional still to first and for most be used for healing and secondly to help deal with tanker builds which sorcs struggle with due to the classes complete lack of pressure, this could add enough pressure to put tanks into a range that could be killed with sorcs burst combo. The reason I say removing the stun on runecage is the favorable option is because it would mean the cc immunity from runecage would interfere with the stun on cfrag doing its job it you applied rune cage prior for healing.

The mages wrath idea isnt good because the delay on it is a vital part pf the burst combo at the core of every magsorc build. You need curse and cfrag to hit at the same time immediately proc'ing wrath. Having to choose between cfrag and wrath would result in sorcs not being able to kill anything. The problem is the classes lack of pressure means burst that isnt well timed is easily healed thru with with pretty much anything. Its why sorcs struggle so much with tanks, we cant get them into execute before they can heal. If you time curse and frag poorly as is, you will have an impossible time getting anything into execute, forcing wrath to take place after the combo allows a giant hole for the entire combo to be rendered useless.

Yeah probably. I do know many sorcs including myself dropped wrath until this patch. Using inner light or ele drain instead. But it would be different.

I faaaaaaaar prefer my number one option however. Just make it a dot put the stun back on frag, appologize to everyone for not listening lol

Galarthor

Have you considered how big the DoT damage would have to be in order to get tanks into "burst execute range" with a single ability - keep in mind the rest remains unchanged, so the only thing pulling tanks down into that range would be the DoT.

And how do you propose sorcs deal with the perma-dodgers and perma-blockers? The first ones simply evade the majority of the damage. And even if they get hit by an ability the rest of the stack is still missing so they won't die (not by a long shot).

The second category of builds simply mitigates 80% of your stacked burst. You do realize that you will have to get them into the very-low-health region of the HP bar in order to kill them with your burst while they are blocking. And with only 20% damage taken even comparatively small heals suffice to keep you at round max health.

Pretty much the only way to deal with these two types of builds is rune cage. The story would be a different one if both dodging and blocking suffered from the same increasing cost as streak is (4 to 5 streaks in a row and you are out of magicka) as it would discourage perma-blocking and perma-dodging.

And before the stamblades among you start: I know dodge has a 33% cost increase. However, with the cost reduction in the CP and the well-fitted trait it is still sustainable pretty much indefinitely. Especially as NBs who throw in one of two cloaks when the the stacked cost is increasing too much. Therefore, for Rune Cage to not be necessary the cost of consecutive dodging and blocking has to increase drastically (especially given the stamina favoritism of CPs and armor traits).

Twohothardware wrote: »

The CC on Rune Cage definitely needs to go and imo they need to lose access to running Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka together or at the very least Bastion needs to be nerfed since it somehow escaped all the CP nerfs last year.

You do realize that Bastion is a counter to CPs such as Master-at-Arms and is scaled accordingly. So I don't get where your idea that it escpaed warranted nerfs is coming from, except from some perception disorder.

cpuScientist

Well they made it dodgeable. Do that's a start. You will still always eat the meteor. But at least there is some counterplay besides that.

usmguy1234

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Galarthor

That's exactly the key pain point of a MagSorc. Our sustained damage is on a 4 second cooldown. We have no good damage over time abilities to create pressure. And when you give a nasty burst with our entire setup we don't have anything to follow up with if the target has enough health to be in a 35-45% range after burst. What's so devastating this update is we have the ability to actually use meteor. Before a meteor would be blocked EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. and it's the only Ultimate available to us to aid in killing tank meta. And the fact that magSorcs are packing up players that are used to requiring 2+ players to kill them is probably what's causing all the buzz (have seen it all over the forums... I have 28k health and I was one shot by a MagSorc this game is now broken... No you were what's broken with the game to begin with). Now I can see how a MagSorc using this setup on other players is a problem, they have no chance to survive and honestly it's just dirty.

But let's not ignore the real problem in this game... This game has become who can survive who the longest and wait for assistance from other players. Once upon a time players built to kill quickly, and actively defend. Not passively defend with 28k health, 15% reduced incoming damage (minor main), 28k resistance, and holding block every other global cooldown...

I agree on your points. The proc meta pushed the tank meta right before one Tamriel and those people never looked back. Now you've got people with 30k+ health with insane mitigation that hit like a mac truck. Medium armor is completely gutted unless you run a speed pot chugging build or use cloak. Light is more survivable than medium only because of shields and/or stealth.

So basically survivability

Heavy=>Light>>>Medium

Where it should be

Heavy>>Medium>Light

For Damage

Light=>Medium> Heavy

Where it should be

Light=>Medium>>>Heavy

Galarthor

@usmguy1234

A big part of the problem are proc sets and especially oblivion sets. More specifically, they allow you to deal damage without speccing into dealing damage. You can go full Heavy Armor and still deal high damage thanks to proc sets. The problem is amplified by oblivion damage, which not only ignores your "capability to deal damage" but also your opponents' capability to defend themselves / mitigate. You don't have to spec into Spell/Weapon Damage, Crit, or Penetration. Allowing you to free up a lot of set bonuses to put into resources and regen / cost reduction.

ZOS fails to see this. That's why you got perma-blocking 30k+ HP Heavy Armor tanks running around almost unkillable but still dealing large amounts of damage. I don't enjoy this meta, but I start getting really frustrated about working on improving my builds, gear, and most importantly skill only to encounter sum guy who needs to push 3 buttons (1 of which is permanently pressed) who is almost unkillable and deals lots of damage. At some point I will just hop on that ZOS-Troll-Builds train and have a good time myself.

usmguy1234

Galarthor wrote: »

@usmguy1234

A big part of the problem are proc sets and especially oblivion sets. More specifically, they allow you to deal damage without speccing into dealing damage. You can go full Heavy Armor and still deal high damage thanks to proc sets. The problem is amplified by oblivion damage, which not only ignores your "capability to deal damage" but also your opponents' capability to defend themselves / mitigate. You don't have to spec into Spell/Weapon Damage, Crit, or Penetration. Allowing you to free up a lot of set bonuses to put into resources and regen / cost reduction.

ZOS fails to see this. That's why you got perma-blocking 30k+ HP Heavy Armor tanks running around almost unkillable but still dealing large amounts of damage. I don't enjoy this meta, but I start getting really frustrated about working on improving my builds, gear, and most importantly skill only to encounter sum guy who needs to push 3 buttons (1 of which is permanently pressed) who is almost unkillable and deals lots of damage. At some point I will just hop on that ZOS-Troll-Builds train and have a good time myself.

@Galarthor Don't do it. I can speak from experience because I gave in to the dark side once and it feels bad. Yes you can rack up some serious ap but you die a little on the inside every time you kill someone because it requires no skill. Especially the ones that you know would kill you if you had different sets on.

Jeezye

Omg this is so cringy, why the hell does every one expect a sorc to be able to put a tank into execute range with one combo? Tanks are build to be tanky and survive more than just one combo, and not just of one but many players. If you want to kill tanks on a sorc, it should take some time, with few rotations of crushing shock, maybe an elemental path under their feet, and defiles to limit their healing - just like all other classes need to play against those builds. It is absolutly *** that sorcs can bypass the most prominent defensive mechanics - dodgeroll and blocking - with their kit at the moment. Out of all classes, the sorcs kit is so mindelessly strong that almost ANY sorc you see in cyro runs the exact same setup and combos - where as other classes choose differnent build paths and add variety to the game...

Galarthor

Jeezye wrote: »

Omg this is so cringy, why the hell does every one expect a sorc to be able to put a tank into execute range with one combo? Tanks are build to be tanky and survive more than just one combo, and not just of one but many players. If you want to kill tanks on a sorc, it should take some time, with few rotations of crushing shock, maybe an elemental path under their feet, and defiles to limit their healing - just like all other classes need to play against those builds. It is absolutly *** that sorcs can bypass the most prominent defensive mechanics - dodgeroll and blocking - with their kit at the moment. Out of all classes, the sorcs kit is so mindelessly strong that almost ANY sorc you see in cyro runs the exact same setup and combos - where as other classes choose differnent build paths and add variety to the game...

You apparently don't get the issue. The problem is not that tanks are tanky. But that tanks are tanky and deals significant amounts of damage.

If a tank is so tanky that he can't be killed by a player he/she in turn must also be unable to kill that player due to lack of damage output. Anything else is imbalanced as it would make tanks superior to non-tank builds. Unfortunately, that is currently the case (courtesy of the proc sets) which is why we currently have this tank meta.

And to be honest, an ability that takes up one of the precious few ability slots on your bars should ace a free ability/tool that does not require to sacrifice a slot on your bars out.

And just in case you are confused about why people talk about sorcs killing an enemy within 1 rotation: That's how sorcs work. They don't slowing drain the target like for example DKs, but they stack their burst damage. If the sorc cannot kill the target with such a rotation then he/she will never be able to kill the opponent due to lack of sustained pressure. It's just how the class is designed. That's why you got all the delayed abilities such as Curse (3.5 sec) and Fury (up to 4 sec).

I find it interesting that you deem sorc CC going through block and dodge OP, but apparently don't mind that DK and NB stun also ignore them. Range is not an arguement, as both DKs and NBs got the tools to permanently stay in melee/stun range. Let me guess, you are either a DK or a NB. Thus, hating sorcs for putting pressure on you with Rune Cage, but don't mind doing it yourself.



@usmguy1234 yeah, I probably won't get much satisfaction out of it. But beating those trolls and lazy people with their own tools would be nice for a change. Plus gaming would not be as taxing anymore. No more pressure of lining up your burst / skills. Just spam defensive abilities and some random abilities + light attacks and your opponent drops dead while you barely take any damage.

usmguy1234

Jeezye wrote: »

Omg this is so cringy, why the hell does every one expect a sorc to be able to put a tank into execute range with one combo? Tanks are build to be tanky and survive more than just one combo, and not just of one but many players. If you want to kill tanks on a sorc, it should take some time, with few rotations of crushing shock, maybe an elemental path under their feet, and defiles to limit their healing - just like all other classes need to play against those builds. It is absolutly *** that sorcs can bypass the most prominent defensive mechanics - dodgeroll and blocking - with their kit at the moment. Out of all classes, the sorcs kit is so mindelessly strong that almost ANY sorc you see in cyro runs the exact same setup and combos - where as other classes choose differnent build paths and add variety to the game...

The problem with this is what I saw yesterday ie tanks guarding dps and completely crushing dozens of people. If you can't make the guard drop block you'll never beat that combo. There has to be counters against l2 builds and dodge roll/ cloak spammers.

Tonturri

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Omg this is so cringy, why the hell does every one expect a sorc to be able to put a tank into execute range with one combo? Tanks are build to be tanky and survive more than just one combo, and not just of one but many players. If you want to kill tanks on a sorc, it should take some time, with few rotations of crushing shock, maybe an elemental path under their feet, and defiles to limit their healing - just like all other classes need to play against those builds. It is absolutly *** that sorcs can bypass the most prominent defensive mechanics - dodgeroll and blocking - with their kit at the moment. Out of all classes, the sorcs kit is so mindelessly strong that almost ANY sorc you see in cyro runs the exact same setup and combos - where as other classes choose differnent build paths and add variety to the game...

The problem with this is what I saw yesterday ie tanks guarding dps and completely crushing dozens of people. If you can't make the guard drop block you'll never beat that combo. There has to be counters against l2 builds and dodge roll/ cloak spammers.

Petrify, Fear, Rune?

RebornV3x

The main problem I figure about the Sorc class is there's really no direction with the class in general we have delayed bursts, wonky pets that are crap half the time and need a huge quality of life improvement, we have decent defensive abilities like Deadric Mines and Wards and then we have Streak which has its own problems and shortcomings

We lack a class spammable, a direct attack ultimate (ie like 2.2 Dawnbreaker, Incap Strike etc) and our classes over reliance on Destruction Staff really stamps out any gear or skill variety

Its crazy how Mag Sorc went from a mediocre Shield Stacking, Destructive Reach spammer last patch to being easily being one of the best classes just because they changed one ability.

In all the sorc class should rely less on shields and wards and focus on mobility and other defenses like buffing Mines and keeping or modifying Rune Cage for defense while giving the sorc a dmg buff the Clanfear pet should hit like a Dizzying Swing and buff Curse the sorc should be a ranged glass cannon more or less

Streak either needs to have its penalty reduced or have the streak ranged increased since any player with a brain can easily gap close and kill you also being able to break out of stuns would help

When I look at other classes I feel as if the sorc class is incomplete like they just threw in almost random abilities they couldn't fit anywhere else I mean sorc is in a good place right now but the whole class is a mess

Galarthor

Sorcs focusing on mobility is not an option in the current state of the game.

It is far too easy to gap closer in this game. Melee builds have a close to 100% uptime on being in melee range.
At the same time gap opening considerably harder due to all the roots and slows in the game ... and that is just besides the gap closers that are:
1) cheaper
2) have greater range
3) are more precise (i.e. they always hit the target, reliably bringing the melee into melee range)
4) they track the target and allow to chase after targets that are not going in a straight line (unlike streak that only bolts forward)
5) have greater damage / utility
6) work uphill / downhill and at the same time allow to bridge gaps like Streak does.

These problems would have to be addressed before you can create a class that is build around mobiltiy and doesn't involve dodging. The latter being the reason why mobile builds already work for stam builds, besides them having reliable gap closers rather than the very clunky gap opener called Streak.

Aedaryl

Galarthor wrote: »

Sorcs focusing on mobility is not an option in the current state of the game.

It is far too easy to gap closer in this game. Melee builds have a close to 100% uptime on being in melee range.
At the same time gap opening considerably harder due to all the roots and slows in the game ... and that is just besides the gap closers that are:
1) cheaper
2) have greater range
3) are more precise (i.e. they always hit the target, reliably bringing the melee into melee range)
4) they track the target and allow to chase after targets that are not going in a straight line (unlike streak that only bolts forward)
5) have greater damage / utility
6) work uphill / downhill and at the same time allow to bridge gaps like Streak does.

These problems would have to be addressed before you can create a class that is build around mobiltiy and doesn't involve dodging. The latter being the reason why mobile builds already work for stam builds, besides them having reliable gap closers rather than the very clunky gap opener called Streak.

Mag sorc can't be mobile when major exepidition is bound to stamina (no good magicka speed potion), when sprinting is enough to chase the sorc, when your mobility skill is clunky and have cost increase, when you have no snare removal and immunity.

Feanor

Out of all classes, the sorcs kit is so mindelessly strong that almost ANY sorc you see in cyro runs the exact same setup and combos - where as other classes choose differnent build paths and add variety to the game...

@Jeezye

Nothing to do with “mindlessly strong”. It’s one of the distinctive shortcomings of the class that build options are severely limited - Summerset killed the last DW Sorcs around for example. There really isn’t much else than Destro/Resto and a select few skills. I know I’d love more diversity after 4 years but the forum would explode - they can’t even cope with the skills Sorc has right now.

Jeezye

Feanor wrote: »

Out of all classes, the sorcs kit is so mindelessly strong that almost ANY sorc you see in cyro runs the exact same setup and combos - where as other classes choose differnent build paths and add variety to the game...

@Jeezye

Nothing to do with “mindlessly strong”. It’s one of the distinctive shortcomings of the class that build options are severely limited - Summerset killed the last DW Sorcs around for example. There really isn’t much else than Destro/Resto and a select few skills. I know I’d love more diversity after 4 years but the forum would explode - they can’t even cope with the skills Sorc has right now.

I might have expressed myself unclear here. What I mean is exactly what you said, there is only one effecient build path in this class, which is shieldstacking by building for max magicka, and rotating the classic burst combo. I spent lots of time trying to figure out a heavy armor sorc without shields, but the fact that even your only real class heal (twilight) AS WELL only scales off of max magicka really limis any other build constellations.

Now, because there is only the ONE path to build, the mechanics are really strong, and if they get nerfed, sorcs are left without any other options. So, I stand to the point that the combinaiton of curse, fury, frags, (prison), is too strong, the whole class would need a redesign before theses skills are touched. At the moment it is frustrating to play as or against sorcs and neither side profits from the current situation.

Banana

Class change so i can be one to.

Feanor

the whole class would need a redesign

@Jeezye

That’s what a lot of Sorcs have been telling ZOS again and again. It’s unrealistic to expect they’ll put in the work though, so we’re stuck with not getting nerfed any further as a goal.

IAVITNI

Feanor wrote: »

the whole class would need a redesign

@Jeezye

That’s what a lot of Sorcs have been telling ZOS again and again. It’s unrealistic to expect they’ll put in the work though, so we’re stuck with not getting nerfed any further as a goal.

Sorcs don't really need a complete class change, but a re-focus on their identity--delayed burst and high mobility, with shields being their emergency button (not their primary defense)

Right now the class does not excel with its strong points. It's burst is either too weak or to easy to land without the CC on frag and current Rune Cage mechanics. The challenge should be setting up the frag, not sustaining pressure.

Their ability to create gaps is severely nerfed. Mines is too niche, Thundering Presence is barely worth the slot but would need more to replace shield stacking, Encase does not do enough for its costs, Streak is only useful for running.

Streak needs a fix to its cost and the loss of momentum and locking streak into the position you are facing really hurts the classes mobility in combat, meaning it only works to run from combat, not to be mobile in it.

Daedric Mines needs to be a more mobile zoning tool, similar to eternal Hunt.

If they changed Daedric Tomb to drop a Mine every 2 seconds for 10 seconds it would be a better zoning tool that isn't as cheesy and situational as MineField.

Thundering Presence needs to be a more reliable and lengthier form of mobility in the current snare meta

--either increase the duration of Major Expedition and/or give it snare removal every 5 or so seconds if it deals damage to an enemy within a certain range.

Encase is currently not worth the slot unless you are a tank. It deals mediocre damage and grants a great healing buff that is useless on mag and too costly for stam considering how heavily magicka is already used for stam sorcs.

The secondary effects of this skill do not justify the cost. The damage on Shattering is negligible and the 2 seconds of Major Vitality does not synergize with magicka, nor is the skill sustainable on stam. Conceptually it's a great skill, it just doesn't do enough. Any buff would have to be accompanied by an AoE nerf otherwise it becomes to strong in groups.

Ironically Stam Sorc is more balanced than mag, it just also happens to be underperforming relative to other stam classes. The Major Vitality change was a huge buff but it's gated behind a just as huge magicka cost. Right now, stam sorc damage is only competitive because they can forgo sustain. Magicka utility skills greatly hurts that sustain and either makes the class unsustainable or guts their damage.

Stam sorcs either need a damage or sustain buff. The latter is more ideal as it would allow stam sorcs to dip into their class' utility skills more efficiently and stam sorcs currently deal good damage on live anyways. IF stam sorcs receive a buff to damage it should be a buff to their sustained pressure, done independent of a damage buff to hurricane. Their burst is fine as is.

A combination of the following would need to occur:
-Streak fatigue cost is removed
-link passive magicka sustain to a stam sorc skill-ideal candidate would be Crit Surge-150 magicka on crit-4 sec CD.
-Change Encase or one of its morphs to be sustainable by stamsorcs
-buff duration of hurricane slightly to alleviate stamina cost
-change Twilight Tormentor to a stamina based active that attaches the twilight to an opponent that deals x physcial (wind) damage to the target and twice that to enemies around them-only 1 active at a time
-reduce healing from Dark Deal to compensate for any of the above buffs