honestly tired of being *** by magsorcs

Swimguy

the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP


fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

Aedaryl

Good one ahahahha !

It's a bit obvious with the bolded part, but still awesome to read !

We can almost think you are serious

7/10

Urvoth

Swimguy wrote: »

fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

Rune cage can't 1 shot by itself, it's a timed combination of rune cage with like 4 other skills and a damage increase enchantment.

Yeah, rune cage is OP but so is fossilize and incap(current patch, not pts). Fossilize is literally a melee range rune cage, and both of them are broken. ZOS really just needs to do a big rework of PvP skills in general.

Swimguy

Urvoth wrote: »

Swimguy wrote: »

fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

Rune cage can't 1 shot by itself, it's a timed combination of rune cage with like 4 other skills and a damage increase enchantment.

Yeah, rune cage is OP but so is fossilize and incap(current patch, not pts). Fossilize is literally a melee range rune cage, and both of them are broken. ZOS really just needs to do a big rework of PvP skills in general.

except magdks dont have crazy burst unless built for it then theyre easy to kill. true rune cage isnt actually the problem but crazy burst and max mana scaling is stupid

Swimguy

Aedaryl wrote: »

Good one ahahahha !

It's a bit obvious with the bolded part, but still awesome to read !

We can almost think you are serious

7/10

i wish i was joking

kadar

Swimguy wrote: »

the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP


fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

^I mean that's completely unreasonable buuuut.

Kind of agree. Busted out the ol' mSorc just for tier 1 rewards on Vivec before campaign end. Had some antiquated setup (haven't played mSorc since Elegant meta). Bursting people was the easiest thing I've ever done in this game. I sneezed on people from 28m and they died. In all seriousness tho, mSorc is the most well designed class in the game IMO. It felt powerful in general and offensively it flowed smooth af-- it was fun.

Realistically the counterplay to rune cage is the same as fear/fossilize. Don't let your health drop below 60-75% and expect to get CC'd. The difference is that rune cage is easier to land and you're more likely to die from insta-execute.

Swimguy

The_Outsider wrote: »

Swimguy wrote: »

the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP


fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

^I mean that's completely unreasonable buuuut.

Kind of agree. Busted out the ol' mSorc just for tier 1 rewards on Vivec before campaign end. Had some antiquated setup (haven't played mSorc since Elegant meta). Bursting people was the easiest thing I've ever done in this game. I sneezed on people from 28m and they died. In all seriousness tho, mSorc is the most well designed class in the game IMO. It felt powerful in general and offensively it flowed smooth af-- it was fun.

Realistically the counterplay to rune cage is the same as fear/fossilize. Don't let your health drop below 60-75% and expect to get CC'd. The difference is that rune cage is easier to land and you're more likely to die from insta-execute.

i agree magsorc is desinged very well, in fact its designed too well (compared to other classes). Maybe if they buffed other classes to have the synergy that magsorcs have then the game would be much much better than just nerfing it but i doubt ZOS has the capability to do that.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Swimguy wrote: »

the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP


fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.

roflcopter

Swimguy wrote: »

the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP


fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

If you haven't run into the new overload sorc build, your def in for a treat

Waffennacht

People whom joined this year asking for balance changes as if they know what has brought us here.

Maybe it's Ike an ESO growth thing.

I remember when I was an unskilled noob I wanted cloak nerfed, but then I L2P

Maybe we will see something similar to that here

cpuScientist

It's different because the classes are different. Sorcs are safe behind shield stacks and can play fully ranged, with anti melee mines and streak for mobility. While having delayed damage.

MagDK has pressure, one can sustain it or run away. They don't have delayed damage, in fact the only burst they do have outside of leap, flame lash, is usually set up by fossilize. But they do not have the ability to to do away with 20k+ health in an easy unavoidable combo from 40 meters away.

MagBlade has good burst, but not delayed burst it's up-front, but their fear is melee so even a range blade has to either go in melee range and use it or like many others choose use reach instead.

Rune cage is strong because it is on the wrong class. All the other classes have a risk or counterplay attached to their big burst combos. Like a Nightblade has bow proc so they have to be in melee range to fear or use a dodgeable stun, thus it can be avoided or you have them in melee to do it. And magDK has to be in melee range to do anything, and are a dot based class. MagSorc in summerset has no counterplay. There wasn't anything you could've done but heal and pray nothing crits and that they mess up one of the easiest burst combos.

Even if rune cage is nerfed to do no damage, it is still to strong. It needs to be reworked completely. Either make it dodgeable and blockable but not reflectable or something along those lines, and take away the delay and difficulty in breaking free. My personal opinion is out the stun back on frag gave it back it's damage and make cage a dot with a small slow.

In the end the class that has the skill matters. Just as much as the skill itself.

Waffennacht

Every class should have access to hard CCs

Strider__Roshin

Your suggestions aren't realistic, but yeah magsorcs are insanely OP this patch, no other class is even close.

WaltherCarraway

still havent seen "l2p" comments

let me post it

"l2p"

Strider__Roshin

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

still havent seen "l2p" comments

let me post it

"l2p"

Thanks for checking that box. Now all we're missing is for someone to call the OP "bad" and someone to act like magsorcs are weak and defenseless.

Waffennacht

Daus wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

still havent seen "l2p" comments

let me post it

"l2p"

Thanks for checking that box. Now all we're missing is for someone to call the OP "bad" and someone to act like magsorcs are weak and defenseless.

Lol, that was pretty funny @Daus

Sorcs definitely not weak, but also not immortal.

I'm a firm believer that ZoS does the round robin of top performers. The only issue is that Templars haven't been on top for a very long time. Second is apparently Warden (mag) was over performing when released (really ZoS? Kinda doubt it myself)

I think Templars should get a hard CC and a dmg buff to Jesus beam.

Warden.... If they are dead set on no class CC... I don't see more than a support role in PvP (like setting up classes with an execute)

DKs had their lime light right before NBs, so they can wait till next update after this upcoming one.

Personally, I think Rune Cage should have the same range as Warden's Shalks

Edit: ok auto correct, "lime" is a word, if I wanted "like" I would have typed "like" ... I hate you auto correct

Swimguy

Waffennacht wrote: »

People whom joined this year asking for balance changes as if they know what has brought us here.

Maybe it's Ike an ESO growth thing.

I remember when I was an unskilled noob I wanted cloak nerfed, but then I L2P

Maybe we will see something similar to that here

Made a forum account this year because im fed up with the trash patches and balancing ZOS calls "progress"

Swimguy

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Swimguy wrote: »

the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP


fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

The one shot you speak of takes at least 8 button presses, 10, if you throw in the ultimate.

Yea thats the problem. You have so many skills hitting you at once its a "one shot" in essence. Any stam class has to alot 3-4 skills minimum to stay alive... leaving the rest to buffs AND active skills.. its pretty easy to stack ranged attcks on people. While its super easy to kite melee.

dont forget that mag has a lot better unique sets. Both proc, stat wise, and defensive than stamina. And way more class skills.

Either ZOS doesnt play ESO or they primarily play mag classes. Pvp slowly turning into a joke

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Daus wrote: »

Your suggestions aren't realistic, but yeah magsorcs are insanely OP this patch, no other class is even close.

@Daus
Stamblade is still more dominant, they just arent quite as prevalent. Sorcs have a much lower floor because they are no doubt easier to play, but Stamblade has the higher ceiling for sure, be it dueling, open world, BGs, etc.

Koolio

Just make meteor Cleansable Cloakable Dodgeable and Reflectable again. Please lol.

Tommy_The_Gun

For those typing L2P:
How to avoid/counter undodgeable, unblockable, instant spamable hard CC stun (other than get brief CC immunity from some other stun in a first place that is) ? ? ?

Seriously. If you know an easy counter that will not compromise your build completely - just type it and share the knowledge.

Strider__Roshin

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Your suggestions aren't realistic, but yeah magsorcs are insanely OP this patch, no other class is even close.

@Daus
Stamblade is still more dominant, they just arent quite as prevalent. Sorcs have a much lower floor because they are no doubt easier to play, but Stamblade has the higher ceiling for sure, be it dueling, open world, BGs, etc.

Not from my experience. I can usually guess outcome of a BGs match prior to it starting based team composition. Whichever team has the most magsorcs is typically the one that wins. It doesn't matter who's playing the class, that's the outcome the majority of the time.

Swimguy

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Your suggestions aren't realistic, but yeah magsorcs are insanely OP this patch, no other class is even close.

@Daus
Stamblade is still more dominant, they just arent quite as prevalent. Sorcs have a much lower floor because they are no doubt easier to play, but Stamblade has the higher ceiling for sure, be it dueling, open world, BGs, etc.

No. Sorcs have like 4 direct tools to counter stamblades and once they rune cage you under 80% your dead if they crit you once.

Minalan

Frags was dodgeable, blockable, and reflectable. It did respectable damage and it had a stun.

Everyone cried to ZOS about where the mean nasty Sorcs touched them. ZOS listened.

Frags Lost 10% proc damage and the CC.

Revert that garbage, add 20% damage to frags and then add the CC back and you can make cage self-snare and then delete the caster’s account for all I care.

Waffennacht

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

For those typing L2P:
How to avoid/counter undodgeable, unblockable, instant spamable hard CC stun (other than get brief CC immunity from some other stun in a first place that is) ? ? ?

Seriously. If you know an easy counter that will not compromise your build completely - just type it and share the knowledge.

Truly, my Counter to mag sorc is (on my Stam characters) 3.5k base wpn dmg + 30k+ Stam (no CP stats) and to slot a gap closer

I try to have the initial attack. This is pretty huge as a Sorc needs to set up his burst. If he is forces into playing defensive first he must use the CC prior to burst dmg, meaning you will be given an opportunity to counter if he goes offensive.

With high damage stats the sorc is forced to play defensive. If you are running a build that needs to be hit to proc stats (i.e. fury, 7th etc) you're gonna be too slow. As the combo will already be in progress.

I do not count to six. Too long. It's apply dots on shield, hard CC, hard hitting ability. The dots during CC will weaken the shield, then your hard hitter should finish off the shield and hit health (Sorcs r squishy with no shield) then they CC break and will start recasting Shields. You maintain pressure until you can CC again (wut 5 sec, easy peezy, if they use pot + streak, well get outta there until you again have the advantage)

Eventually they will be in execute range, while casting Shields. Executes are necessary. Your execute is far cheaper than healing ward, you will eventually win the execute spam vs shield spam war.

A sorc needs like 3 GCDs to combo if you can't disrupt a build in 3 GCDs, your build is too defensive to win this match

Beardimus

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

For those typing L2P:
How to avoid/counter undodgeable, unblockable, instant spamable hard CC stun (other than get brief CC immunity from some other stun in a first place that is) ? ? ?

Seriously. If you know an easy counter that will not compromise your build completely - just type it and share the knowledge.

Immov Pot.

Skill doesn't even fire. And as a sorc leaves you wondering if you have lag or they on Immov or what so you button smash away.

Biro123

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

For those typing L2P:
How to avoid/counter undodgeable, unblockable, instant spamable hard CC stun (other than get brief CC immunity from some other stun in a first place that is) ? ? ?

Seriously. If you know an easy counter that will not compromise your build completely - just type it and share the knowledge.

It's about screwing up their timing.. once you're cursed, make it so they can't hit you with the rest of their timed abilities, then they start setting up that burst again from scratch(after reshielding). So you just bought another 6 seconds...

I can't advise for every class, but my stamblade has cloak, stamplar runs the sword n board reflect and purge, all can Los or cc(situational).
As well as that, sadly you still need to run with enough health n mitigation to take a partial burst ( namely cage/meteor) and recover from it.

Cage is one of the last abilities sorcs will cast as part of his burst rotation.. get your cc in first.

Lord-Otto

The_Outsider wrote: »

Swimguy wrote: »

the rune cage burst meta is horrible and offers 0 counterplay. stacking 30k damage with a undodgeable/unblockable cc is OP


fix runecage by making the sorcs not be able to shield if they have it slotted. why should you be able to one shot everyone if we cant do it back?

^I mean that's completely unreasonable buuuut.

Kind of agree. Busted out the ol' mSorc just for tier 1 rewards on Vivec before campaign end. Had some antiquated setup (haven't played mSorc since Elegant meta). Bursting people was the easiest thing I've ever done in this game. I sneezed on people from 28m and they died. In all seriousness tho, mSorc is the most well designed class in the game IMO. It felt powerful in general and offensively it flowed smooth af-- it was fun.

Realistically the counterplay to rune cage is the same as fear/fossilize. Don't let your health drop below 60-75% and expect to get CC'd. The difference is that rune cage is easier to land and you're more likely to die from insta-execute.

Elegance was never meta.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Daus wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Your suggestions aren't realistic, but yeah magsorcs are insanely OP this patch, no other class is even close.

@Daus
Stamblade is still more dominant, they just arent quite as prevalent. Sorcs have a much lower floor because they are no doubt easier to play, but Stamblade has the higher ceiling for sure, be it dueling, open world, BGs, etc.

Not from my experience. I can usually guess outcome of a BGs match prior to it starting based team composition. Whichever team has the most magsorcs is typically the one that wins. It doesn't matter who's playing the class, that's the outcome the majority of the time.

@Daus
You dont play much in pre-mades then. A good pre-made will typically have 1 sorc and it has nothing to do with rune cage. You do it for steeling KBs with mages wrath. A team of 3-4 magic sorcs will get murdered by a properly built group, which usually has at least two stamina characters. In a pug frenzy, sure Mag Sorc has some advantages, and that is kinda my point. Mag sorc has a really low floor, but the ceiling is not as high as stamblade or frankly a few other classes.

Swimguy wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Your suggestions aren't realistic, but yeah magsorcs are insanely OP this patch, no other class is even close.

@Daus
Stamblade is still more dominant, they just arent quite as prevalent. Sorcs have a much lower floor because they are no doubt easier to play, but Stamblade has the higher ceiling for sure, be it dueling, open world, BGs, etc.

@Swimguy
No. Sorcs have like 4 direct tools to counter stamblades and once they rune cage you under 80% your dead if they crit you once.

If that is your experience as a sNB, then sorry, L2P. If one sorc combo wrecks you with 80% health, something is going wrong on your end. Also, what direct tools are you talking about? Curse pulls you out of cloak. That's it. And if curse pulls you out of cloak, that combo is already ruined and the sorc needs to start over, assuming you dont just cloak again.

You can dodge/block the mages wrath which is part of the setup for the combo, and you can break free and doderoll the frags that is likely coming at you following the hard CC, and of course you can dodge the light attacks. Not only can a sNB roll dodge for days, they have their own source of evasion, and can cloak making the combo difficult to lineup in the first place. Point is, that combo should essentially never hit you all at once. stam NB is the hardest class to line up the sorc combo against. Second place is Stamplar because they have good pressure and a cheap purge.

I am not saying that a well executed sorc combo doesnt hurt, it absolutely does, and news flash, it's supposed to. I am 100% saying that if that combo kills you every time you encounter it, you have a L2P issue. They only change from last patch to this patch was a small damage component to RC. They are already nerfing it on PTS. Many players, myself included, have suggested they also look at toning down the range. Unblockable Undodgeable CCs have been around in this game for a long time. DKs have virtually the same skill, with a shorter range but also a built in immobilization, that actually is more powerful against a good player because it better attacks your stamina pool.

Kel

Waffennacht wrote: »

People whom joined this year asking for balance changes as if they know what has brought us here.

Maybe it's Ike an ESO growth thing.

I remember when I was an unskilled noob I wanted cloak nerfed, but then I L2P

Maybe we will see something similar to that here

It's funny that "L2P" is somehow the answer to rune cage when you have players like Feng Rush complaining about how op rune cage is, because there is no counter. You can't "L2P" against it, because there is nothing you can do to prevent it.
So, are you saying Feng Rush needs to L2P?
If the answer is yes, you are simply out of touch, and defending something because you use it knowing how ridiculous it is.

Waffennacht

jabrone77 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

People whom joined this year asking for balance changes as if they know what has brought us here.

Maybe it's Ike an ESO growth thing.

I remember when I was an unskilled noob I wanted cloak nerfed, but then I L2P

Maybe we will see something similar to that here

It's funny that "L2P" is somehow the answer to rune cage when you have players like Feng Rush complaining about how op rune cage is, because there is no counter. You can't "L2P" against it, because there is nothing you can do to prevent it.
So, are you saying Feng Rush needs to L2P?
If the answer is yes, you are simply out of touch, and defending something because you use it knowing how ridiculous it is.

He started playing again? If you'd been on the forums, he and I almost always argue. He's like the worst guy to quote to me. He had a point on smart heal vs dumb damage but that's like the extent we agree on.

I actually talked to the man (when he played...) Have you?