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Dear fake tanks who blame the healer
lagrue
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I'm sorry but when you're a "tank" and you wear paper mache armor and have 12k health, no amount of healing can save you, you're going to die 1 hit even regular dungeons to 50% of the attacks. It's not my fault, you built like crap. Those attacks that do 18k a hit? There's nothing I can do to mitigate that for you. I can give you Resolve buffs and it won't be enough. The problem isn't lack of heals - its your build.
PSN ID (NA only): Zuzu_With_a_Z
*GRAND MASTER CRAFTER*
"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"
*GRAND MASTER CRAFTER*
"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"
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TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭It's rare for me recently, but it's either a tank that can't tank and is squishy AF or a healer who is not a healer and is just there to avoid long queue times.
Or something like this, maybe 2 times since I played this game:
ME: Dude, why are you moving around so much?
TANK (25k HP): I'm kind of squishy.
ME: TF are you tanking then? -
Puzzlenuts✭✭✭Tanks should have enough health and res that they don't have to rely on healers too much in a dungeon. Trails may be different. But a good tank should be able to sustain themselves for the most part in a dungeon run. IMO everyone should be dead before the tank -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rule number one in dungeons:
for any and all subsequent rules of dungeon group play - refer back to rule number one....PS4/NA & EU (Cyro & IC): This Must Be The Place...Traders RefugeThe Purple Gang
PVP: Brotherhood Without Banners"I don't have a lot to contribute because mostly I don't really care" -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
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The Ebon set is heavy armor, and it's for tanks, not healers.You should have ebony set for situations like this.
do not forget rule №1:
IT'S YOUR FAULT
*Edit* Unless you were joking, or talking about something else. But if you weren't joking or talking about something else, then ... yeah.
Edited by SydneyGrey on July 16, 2018 8:09PM -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SydneyGrey wrote: »
The Ebon set is heavy armor, and it's for tanks, not healers.You should have ebony set for situations like this.
do not forget rule №1:
IT'S YOUR FAULT
*Edit* Unless you were joking, or talking about something else. But if you weren't joking or talking about something else, then ... yeah.
You misread his/her commentCarebear Master Race -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭Puzzlenuts wrote: »Tanks should have enough health and res that they don't have to rely on healers too much in a dungeon. Trails may be different. But a good tank should be able to sustain themselves for the most part in a dungeon run. IMO everyone should be dead before the tank
yep. I tanked the last boss in bloodroot forge on my nord dk. everyone was dead, there was lava everywhere, the dps didn't dps for ***(the healer had way better dps than they did). so they entire fight was me tanking all three bosses and reviving the healer to do a bit dps before me reviving him again. we just let the "dps" stay dead. I didn't die once.“Barbarianism is the natural state of mankind. Civilization is unnatural. It is the whim of circumstance. And barbarianism must ultimately triumph”
― Robert E. Howard -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been seeing so many of these threads lately wondering if I shouldn't just convert all 8 of my toons over to tanks... seems like all you have to do is show up and be somewhat competent and you're already better than 90% of the pugs out there.Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important. -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SydneyGrey wrote: »
The Ebon set is heavy armor, and it's for tanks, not healers.You should have ebony set for situations like this.
do not forget rule №1:
IT'S YOUR FAULT
*Edit* Unless you were joking, or talking about something else. But if you weren't joking or talking about something else, then ... yeah.
No, I like this idea. The healer runs Ebon jewelry and staves, then when they bar swap the entire party loses their bonus health for a moment, and gets taken out by a one shot. BRILLIANT! Make 'em wear Lord Warden too. There's no reason the tank should be prevented from running a combo like Zaan's and Elfbane in PvE, because that sounds like a rational build.
Though, seriously, there are heal sets you can run on your tank and actually benefit the group. I've got a Christmas Tree build of Ebon (body), Sanctuary (jewels with weapons), and Lord Warden. Which works rather nicely. A tank who has some in class heals (or pops vigor) can make some use of mending weapons and jewelry. And of course, ex-"meta" Alkosh is supposed to be a Stam DPS set.
Sticking tank sets on your healer? Maybe something? But Ebon is not a good option.Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO. -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MisterBigglesworth wrote: »Been seeing so many of these threads lately wondering if I shouldn't just convert all 8 of my toons over to tanks... seems like all you have to do is show up and be somewhat competent and you're already better than 90% of the pugs out there.
That's not limited to tanks. Show up to a pug with a pulse and you're better than 90% of other players.
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EvilCroc✭✭✭✭✭
✭SydneyGrey wrote: »
The Ebon set is heavy armor, and it's for tanks, not healers.You should have ebony set for situations like this.
do not forget rule №1:
IT'S YOUR FAULT
*Edit* Unless you were joking, or talking about something else. But if you weren't joking or talking about something else, then ... yeah.
There is no such thing like "heavy" or "light" set in this game anymore. Heal staff and jewelry.
And, yes, it was sarcasm.
Just do not forget:
"There is a time to take damage,
There is a time to deal it,
There is a time to ignore all else
and do your best to heal it.
Then there's a time to laugh while they all BURN" (c)Edited by EvilCroc on July 16, 2018 8:27PM -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Any capable tank doesn’t need a healer, same goes for competent dps who know how to stay out of the red and shield/ dodge/ sustain. Healers are only useful in Trials and occasionally PVP. Least desireable role in the game, and yeah, if anything goes wrong you’re top of the list for blame—reagardless of the derpery of your party. -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm sorry but when you're a "tank" and you wear paper mache armor and have 12k health, no amount of healing can save you, you're going to die 1 hit even regular dungeons to 50% of the attacks. It's not my fault, you built like crap. Those attacks that do 18k a hit? There's nothing I can do to mitigate that for you. I can give you Resolve buffs and it won't be enough. The problem isn't lack of heals - its your build.
Although what you say makes sense, im curious what youre running for sets, because i've been able to keep glass cannons alive with 10k health using Worm, Lich and Chokethorn in some vet dungeons incl. some dlc one, and im absolutly trash at healing.Edited by D0PAMINE on July 16, 2018 9:50PM -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Healers are the most important class in a group.
They let the dps (me) pull off crazy numbers 48-52k magblade with a trash healer dps will drop drastically. Healer: most import hands down
Really? What's hurting so bad you need a healer? Virtually all incoming damage is either avoidable or should hit the tank.
In trials they are super important for sure. Between minor berserk, major force, major courage, ele drain, war horn and minor vulnerability (charged shock enchant) they can contribute a significant amount towards group dps. On top of keeping dps alive that is.
But in dungeons? Nah just get a magblade to run the healing morphs of his dps skills. -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭MisterBigglesworth wrote: »Been seeing so many of these threads lately wondering if I shouldn't just convert all 8 of my toons over to tanks... seems like all you have to do is show up and be somewhat competent and you're already better than 90% of the pugs out there.
That's not limited to tanks. Show up to a pug with a pulse and you're better than 90% of other players.
Actual tank here, my complaint is free loaders disguised as DD.
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getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.Founder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.
You serious?
Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.Founder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.
You serious?
Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.
LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health... -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.
You serious?
Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.
LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...
Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video
SpellingEdited by getemshauna on July 16, 2018 11:59PMFounder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭
You have only words, I do have a lot of videos proving that 40k hp is minimum for efficient tanking. Still waiting for your proof that you are able to tank veteran content with 20k hp.40K+ HP is a crutch...an unnecessary one at that....
(And I don't think about Banished Cells or fungal grotto)
Edited by getemshauna on July 17, 2018 12:14AMFounder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Any capable tank doesn’t need a healer, same goes for competent dps who know how to stay out of the red and shield/ dodge/ sustain. Healers are only useful in Trials and occasionally PVP. Least desireable role in the game, and yeah, if anything goes wrong you’re top of the list for blame—reagardless of the derpery of your party.
Many people say this. But, the important word there is 'competent'. Do you know how many dps are competent at being in a group? VERY few.
So many dps are incompetent at functioning as part of a group, across so many games, that an entire meme is dedicated to their ineptitude:
And the ever-popular response
Xbox NA / Main heals -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.
You serious?
Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.
LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...
Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video
Spelling
You only need 30-35k health to easily clear all vet dungeons, dlc hardmodes included. That extra health could be better put to dps stats to make the whole thing quicker.
Also your healer should not be keeping you alive in vets, you can do the yourself with your 30-35k health. Your healer should mostly be dpsing and giving out resources.
In your scenario the tank is doing sod all dps and so is the healer. Must takes hours to do the vet dungeons lol. -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.
You serious?
Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.
LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...
Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video
Spelling
You only need 30-35k health to easily clear all vet dungeons, dlc hardmodes included. That extra health could be better put to dps stats to make the whole thing quicker.
Also your healer should not be keeping you alive in vets, you can do the yourself with your 30-35k health. Your healer should mostly be dpsing and giving out resources.
In your scenario the tank is doing sod all dps and so is the healer. Must takes hours to do the vet dungeons lol.
Your tanking abilities like Piercing Armor or Deep Slash are not made for dpsing. Investing your stats into mag or stam (not saying about Triune or Tri Stat Glyphs) will not bring ANY impactful change on group dps you wanna achieve. You really think things will go quicker because you invested your attribute points into stamina instead of health? DPSing in this game works only if you are glass cannons with few defensive options (Bi stat food, Vigor, Blade cloak or Shields). That is how this game works, due to how are dps sources scaling with themselves. Raising your dps to 8k from 5k on a tank will not make any difference, and leaves you with a risk of dying, especially if you play without a healer, since your strongest selfheals and defensive options as a tank scale with max health. Maybe you think using Hunding's on tank instead of Alkosh will raise group dps?
Healer dpsing? Same story here. Your group will gain most dps when you focus on buffing, not dealing damage. Jorvuld with Warhorn or Olorime will obviously unlock more damage for group than healer with Julianos spamming Force Shock.
Edited by getemshauna on July 17, 2018 12:40AMFounder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel -
paulychan✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.
You serious?
Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.
LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...
Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video
Spelling
You only need 30-35k health to easily clear all vet dungeons, dlc hardmodes included. That extra health could be better put to dps stats to make the whole thing quicker.
Also your healer should not be keeping you alive in vets, you can do the yourself with your 30-35k health. Your healer should mostly be dpsing and giving out resources.
In your scenario the tank is doing sod all dps and so is the healer. Must takes hours to do the vet dungeons lol.
Your tanking abilities like Piercing Armor or Deep Slash are not made for dpsing. Investing your stats into mag or stam (not saying about Triune or Tri Stat Glyphs) will not bring ANY impactful change on group dps you wanna achieve. You really think things will go quicker because you invested your attribute points into stamina instead of health? DPSing in this game works only if you are glass cannons with few defensive options (Bi stat food, Vigor, Blade cloak or Shields). That is how this game works, due to how are dps sources scaling with themselves. Raising your dps to 8k from 5k on a tank will not make any difference, and leaves you with a risk of dying, especially if you play without a healer, since your strongest selfheals and defensive options as a tank scale with max health. Maybe you think using Hunding's on tank instead of Alkosh will raise group dps?
Healer dpsing? Same story here. Your group will gain most dps when you focus on buffing, not dealing damage. Jorvuld with Warhorn or Olorime will obviously unlock more damage for group than healer with Julianos spamming Force Shock.
I’m with this guy.
Here is how the other guys scenario plays out;
Dps 1- nah bro, we don’t need heals and respec your tank for dps. 35k health is ok
Dps 2- ya bro
Heals- logs out
Tank- spends an hour reZing deeps on first encounter. Notices deeps are chumps doing 20k max, maybe
Tank- logs
The scenario with heals, tank and capable deeps is a clear
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MisterBigglesworth wrote: »Been seeing so many of these threads lately wondering if I shouldn't just convert all 8 of my toons over to tanks... seems like all you have to do is show up and be somewhat competent and you're already better than 90% of the pugs out there.
Every additional good Tank in the Queue is a good thing.CP1,200+ Master Explorer - AvA Praetorian - Console Peasant -
VilniusNastavnik✭✭✭✭✭gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »If tank has less than 40k hp it is not a tank.
You serious?
Ofcourse I am. What do you wanna stack on tank? Spell power? I talk about tanking serious content not overland delves.
LOL...I don't know if I'd want you tanking my "serious content" if I saw you with 40K+ health...
Do you even know the tank role in this game? You want to provide most buffs to the party and most debuffs to enemy to unlock most damage for your DDs. Except that, holding enemies (if possible) in single place again for maximizing damage. A lot of mechanics in this game requires from you to have this 40k hp (maintanking vAS hm or even few dlc dungeons, like bloodroot forge).
You want to have big hp pool to make it easy to healers to keep you alive and create a big reserve of taking damage. There is nothing to else to stack on tank. Or maybe tell me what content you acomplished with your 20k hp tank, and best would be showing a video
Spelling
You only need 30-35k health to easily clear all vet dungeons, dlc hardmodes included. That extra health could be better put to dps stats to make the whole thing quicker.
Also your healer should not be keeping you alive in vets, you can do the yourself with your 30-35k health. Your healer should mostly be dpsing and giving out resources.
In your scenario the tank is doing sod all dps and so is the healer. Must takes hours to do the vet dungeons lol.
Your tanking abilities like Piercing Armor or Deep Slash are not made for dpsing. Investing your stats into mag or stam (not saying about Triune or Tri Stat Glyphs) will not bring ANY impactful change on group dps you wanna achieve. You really think things will go quicker because you invested your attribute points into stamina instead of health? DPSing in this game works only if you are glass cannons with few defensive options (Bi stat food, Vigor, Blade cloak or Shields). That is how this game works, due to how are dps sources scaling with themselves. Raising your dps to 8k from 5k on a tank will not make any difference, and leaves you with a risk of dying, especially if you play without a healer, since your strongest selfheals and defensive options as a tank scale with max health. Maybe you think using Hunding's on tank instead of Alkosh will raise group dps?
Healer dpsing? Same story here. Your group will gain most dps when you focus on buffing, not dealing damage. Jorvuld with Warhorn or Olorime will obviously unlock more damage for group than healer with Julianos spamming Force Shock.
Its not a dps thing.. its a resource thing. Cutting health from 50k to 40k tops can bring resources to 20.. 25k. These extra resources will keep you alive more than 5k extra health ever will.
I have 1 tank orc dk at 45k health with 20 and 22k resources mag and stam respective.
I have 1 argonian heal tank with 35k health 16k stam and 30k mag. Designed for 3 dps parties.
End of the day if youknow what you are doing 35k with extra rezources beats 40k with less resources anyday.Active Toons:
NA - VilniusNastavnik - Magsorc DPS - Altmer
NA - Ko'h Nehko'h - Stamblade Archer - Khajit
NA - Arwyn Winterlight - MagPlar Healer - Breton
NA - Urog Blackfang - DK Tank - Orc
NA - Elen Windsong - Stamsorc DPS - Bosmer
NA - Eats-Strange-Fungus - Magden HealzTank- Argonian
Inactive Placeholders:
NA - Harwyn Northwind - MagWarden DPS - High Elf
NA - Marik At-Divad - StamDK - Redguard
Picture of my Active Toons.
Location: Australia - Wollongong, NSW - Sydney. -
webrgesner✭✭✭✭I use to tank. And I dont need a healer. Maybe for synergy to sustain, maybe a little. But cmon TANKS! Make a build thatll keep you to survive and sustain and self heal quit depending on a healer. Argonian DK atleast have 20+ stam and all sturdy and reduce block glyph or mag recovery. Have green dragon blood, vigor, and obsidien shield for healing. Also Ulti regen weapon trait and BS monster helm, the more you get ult the more sustain you get. And stay blocking the whole time. its that simple.
Iseen dumb tanks wearing divines like 60hp but 9k stam and still die fast. Its all about SUSTAIN
