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Balance Fix: Make Class-Based Skills Available to All
HappyElephant
✭✭✭
Easy way to get balance in the game : give everyone access to the same skill lines.
There will be no more class-exclusive skill lines.
Trying to balance the current system with class-based skills that are so dramatically different, is like trying to make apples and oranges taste the same.
There will be no more class-exclusive skill lines.
Trying to balance the current system with class-based skills that are so dramatically different, is like trying to make apples and oranges taste the same.
4
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wabajaa✭✭HappyElephant wrote: »Easy way to get balance in the game : give everyone access to the same skill lines.
There will be no more class-exclusive skill lines.
Trying to balance the current system with class-based skills that are so dramatically different, is like trying to make apples and oranges taste the same.
Exactly!
Blizzard spent many years to balance the classes in WOW in terms of both pvp and pve but in the end, they realise it is not achievable. As you can always do the balancing between each classes, but what about 2v2, 3v3 in arena?Edited by wabajaa on July 11, 2018 7:55PM0 -
Speed_Kills✭✭✭This would be more broken than anything you have seen to date.Some say speed kills, I hope to be proof of that.
Main- Speed Kills Nord Stamina Sorcerer
+11 alts (every class, mag+stam)7 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This would be stupidly broken. The skill lines are designed and balanced around the idea that they should be exclusive to their class. Allowing players to pick and choose would open up possibilities that would result in players becoming literally unkillable gods that can self sustain for all eternity and dish out incredible amounts of damage.
The time for an open class system has come and gone long ago. To implement this without completely breaking balance would require redesigning every single ability to accommodate the open nature of the new system. The game is too far into its lifespan to do this and survive at the other end.3 -
Sparr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭There would be 0 reason to pick one class over the other. Every class would be the same and op.
Sorc shields with NB damage and templar healing + dk resistance... yeah
PvP would be fun with eveyone running incap & runecage tho
@Sparr0w so I get the notification
Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+DD: All Mag + StamPC (EU) - Sparrxw | CP 810+
Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
Tank: NB | DK | Warden
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GHDD: All Mag + Stam
Heal: Templar | Sorc
Tank: DK | NB
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH + GS4 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭this could be a good idea (pseudo spellcrafting), but passives builded mostly around class skill lines, so if you take Burning Embers you will not proc Burning Light for example, nor you get spell crit bonus from NB tree etc.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah this would be totally doable with some careful rearranging/changing of some passives.
You could then form custom classes by visiting daedric shrines to pick up skill lines just like picking up Mundus buffs.
This would be much more appropriate for the Elder Scrolls universe than the current class system.2 -
rexagamemnon✭✭✭✭✭
✭If this was implemented every one would choose the sme skills to use. I like the diversity of play in my video games0 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭Better solution: provide skill crafting centric to the class.
I've had this discussion with many other players in the community, and my idea centers around the class itself incorporating certain characteristics from other class skill lines but not becoming stronger than those relevant to the current class.1 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭Yeah so dumb that apparently one of ES's most popular games failed because of it
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Spellmaker0 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A change like this would more than likely result in just about everyone running the same op builds for pve/pvp respectively.
(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah so dumb that apparently one of ES's most popular games failed because of it
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Spellmaker
The difference is that Morrowind is a single player game and as such that comparison is like comparing apples to apple pie, sure they both have apples in them but one is much more complicated than the other2 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This would be stupidly broken. The skill lines are designed and balanced around the idea that they should be exclusive to their class. Allowing players to pick and choose would open up possibilities that would result in players becoming literally unkillable gods that can self sustain for all eternity and dish out incredible amounts of damage.
The time for an open class system has come and gone long ago. To implement this without completely breaking balance would require redesigning every single ability to accommodate the open nature of the new system. The game is too far into its lifespan to do this and survive at the other end.
Whenever this response is made to open classes in a game I simply think the person replying does not understand what is being requested. You're absolutely right, some builds would rise to the top. This is kind of true now isn't it? The only difference is that the meta dictates that whatever your class is will be bottom dog or top dog by merit of sheer luck. In short opening up the skill lines is very possible and can be balanced. If you made an argument that it would be too difficult or expensive to implement I might get behind you, but insulting our intelligence with this kind of remark or worse yet condescending that you are somehow more intelligent is a bit self-aggrandizing. This is why I agree with the last part of what you have said. The reality is that it is possible for them to make such changes. Many MMO's have survived such massive changes before. We're not at their studio with their investors and their perspective on where the game should go. As players we just remark on what we'd like to see happen. I personally would have liked an open skill system but I've said this even during Beta. I like the game. Its beautiful. I think it falls short in the lore perspective when you compare it to previous games (even if those games sometimes didn't always track perfectly). ESO is still a beautiful and fun game.
That being said I think an awful lot of people would stylistically like to see ESO fit in line more with the open-ness of design that previous TES games exhibited. When you come from any of the games that TES produced whether it is Arena, Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim the MMO version of the world does feel a bit constricting in character development.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
Grevaris_Elluin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Safe.
Good look surviving my RC/fury/incap/frags.. Or killing me through my shimmering/cloak/shade and healing with honour the dead, and purifying your dots.
Or maybe someone would wipe your group with shalk/leap/talons/sap from cloak.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭ppl will totally stop crying over destro ult, steel tornado, proxy det, shieldbreaker, vicious death, sloads and the likes if that happens \o/0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While that would be a balance fix it would turn this game into boring vanilla and send it tumbling down. Want to raid, you will have to use one specific build, period, end of story. And in case someone says that is the case now, it obviously is not.
This is not a MOBA or some single level game like that. Making everything flat and boring does not work for MMORPGs. Ok, does not work well.
No worries, these get rid of class distinction threads do not get much support.0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭This would be stupidly broken.
this just should be adjusted to work proplyThe skill lines are designed and balanced around the idea that they should be exclusive to their class.
yes they are designed to this but do this work with balanse? as far I dont see any better, bigger links between this design and balance
and tbh normally in every TES game you can use anything, you can build for anything you want, same thing ZOS is saying with this game as play as you want but guess what
you are stuck to 1 class which you are playing and if you want use other class abilities then you have to make new character so at all you cant play as you want on only 1 character (your main)
and its also lore friendly to not have class system like this in ESO but just choices for which skilline you want go0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Safe.
Good look surviving my RC/fury/incap/frags.. Or killing me through my shimmering/cloak/shade and healing with honour the dead, and purifying your dots.
Or maybe someone would wipe your group with shalk/leap/talons/sap from cloak.
There are ways of limiting the stacking of these kinds of things. I could have added power of the light to your list too. Its not the point.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Love the idea but to implement it in an mmo is not a good one though. It's a different feel for other TES games, since those have been single player experiences.
I've played an mmo that has access to all its skill lines, it was the Secret World. Not it's current itineration but when it first started. You only need one character to level all skill lines. It's one of the best mmos that many never played but at the same time, what ever the concerns that the posters here have with regards to an open access to all skill lines happened in that game. Players will always gravitate towards the bis, towards easiest combo to play. You literally have tens to hundreds of players playing the same build in pvp. You had only one best build for tanking, best healing build.
But I wouldn't make big claims that this will destroy the game or something. It'll certainly change the landscape, just like how 1T was.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
HappyElephant✭✭✭The alternative -- which is the strategy I think the developers are implementing -- is to weaken all class-related skills and push players towards using open-world skills that are accessible to all0
