The way you obtain Welkynar motif chapters is a terrible joke!

themaddaedra

jaws343 wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Svenja wrote: »

Recon4thCav wrote: »

Read the patch notes. Only get 1 part of the 10 needed on ncr+3. Anything lower than that on normal gives you nothing.

You don't understand what I mean. Sorry if I was unclear, English isn't my first language.

You get the motif fragments from nCR+3 and on the Vet Difficulties. So those you would farm with your main trials character.

You then log onto any pleb character and do nCR+0 with random people from zone chat where you get the "welkynar binding". That comes from the weekly quest reward, allowing you to get 15 per week.

Yes but why does everyone assume that everyone has 15 characters? More than 8 doesn't really exist in game, you need to pay real money if you want more. Which brings us back to the issue here: crown store

15 is just the max possible. But even if you go with 8 or whatever number of characters you choose to run, you are still limited in Maw to that many coffer runs per week. So your Dro m'athra motifs have the exact same chance to drop as the Welkynar. With the exception of needing to do +3 to get a "guaranteed" drop.

And for those complaining about RNG, you are running with 11 other people. If you get a duplicate, surely someone in your group will have one you need that they do not. Learn to trade.

I think i got both of your points.

1. There's no difference between 15 and 8.
2. I need to l2 trade.


Thx a lot, googling now what's a trade and looks interesting.

I threw out 15 because your original post was complaining that you could only get a motif once per week. Which is wrong. You can get up to 15. But, as pointed out by another comment, 8 is more reasonable without needing to buy character slots from the crown store. And 8 is still 8x more than your complaint.

And yeah, if you get a piece you didn't need, trade it. That is the way every motif has worked in this game for every bit of content, outside of the ones that are directly for sale. Why anyone would expect anything different is beyond me.

It's my bad that i didn't say one per character, true. But it's still beyond imaginable that even if you had 15 bindings you would have to run at least 140 ncr+3 runs to complete the motif. Or 70 vCR +0 and such.

It's more than obvious that this system is not designed to make these chapters hard and valuable, there could be a thousand better ways to do it. It's strictly designed for pushing people into crown store. Say what you want, it's low as it goes.

N0TPLAYER2

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

The grind is long and tedious. That's moderately annoying.

The truly annoying part is that it has been designed to be long and tedious in order to encourage crown store sales.

Now, I don't mind things in the crown store. What I dislike is when the crown store warps the appropriate level of grind too far in one direction in favor of sales and the blatant obviousness of it.

What was the motivation for making jewelry crafting so grindy?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Numerikuu

I can't wait for Monster Hunter World PC and Warframe: Fortuna to release now. Seriously, with every update this game becomes more and more depressing.

code65536

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

weedgenius

Carbonised wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Honestly I'm mostly confused about their motif release schedule. Why are we getting Welkynar now when we don't even have the HOF motif yet, a style added over a year ago? What about Divine Prosecution?

Divine prosecution was a collector's edition outfit only. It won't come in the game other than that.

You mean until next year when it hits the Crown Store.

redspecter23

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

Some people absolutely love RNG. It's why crown crates are a thing. You can mathematically tell someone that a radiant apex is 1 in 500 (or whatever it actually is) and some people will buy "just one more crate" for a chance at it. As much as some people hate RNG, just as many, if not more want it on some level, even if they think they don't.

Nestor

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

OK, so I am having a conversation with you to make a point that RNG is still a factor in this process. Never said it was a good thing. Then someone else comes along and asks me what method I want for motif distribution based on the point I was trying to make with you. Now, I am responding to that conversation about the difference between this messed up way of getting the motif with what we have now with that other person and your making claims that I like RNG for some reason.

So, let me set the record straight for both of you:

@code65536 When have I ever been an advocate of RNG? I will answer that for you. NEVER. Especially with the diluted loot tables we have now in this game.

@Svenja

For the record, I dont want motifs gated behind the most difficult content in the game in order to get a fraction of a chance to get a chapter I need or want. Sure, RNG had always been a factor in motif farming, but not combined with the hardest content on the game.

To whit, I did that trial on vet one boss at a time with Alcast, Xynode, Woeler and several other theory crafters that pull more DPS in their sleep than I ever will amped up on coffee and red bull. And we got our butts handed to us for more than an hour. And this is for the best shot at a chance for a dice roll

Nestor

redspecter23 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

Some people absolutely love RNG. It's why crown crates are a thing. You can mathematically tell someone that a radiant apex is 1 in 500 (or whatever it actually is) and some people will buy "just one more crate" for a chance at it. As much as some people hate RNG, just as many, if not more want it on some level, even if they think they don't.

I hate RNG if you were wondering. Dont even get me started on the travesty of crown crates. Set a price for an item and i will make the decision on whether buy it or not based on the price.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

I'm not sure on this, some one correct me if I'm wrong, but your implying that once you get 10 fragments and bind them, you get a "Motif".
That's not how Glass worked, and don't think that's how this works.
It's 10 Fragments per motif "Page". With perfect RNG you will still need 140 fragments and 14 binding agents for a "Full" motif. And that's IF you don't go through say 40 fragments and get daggers on all 4 "Pages".
And what good is trading with others in Trials as it is "Fragments" dropping, not pages.
To all who thinks this is great and easy, please get back with us when you collect all them into a full motif and let us know how long it took.
For some of us with career jobs, time to grind 8 to 15 toons each day is not a option. It takes all my free game time to do Craft Writs,Quest Dailies, take care of Guild Business, respond to mails, etc.
Then the JC grind hit. Now this?? I have over 8.5k hours of great fun in ESO, but now it is not fun when it is just a grind to look forward to each log in.

TL:DR No this is not a good thing. No, you are not really beating the RNG gods. Please Zo$! Stop with the extreme grind you keep adding. Stop setting it up where the CS is the most important aspect of the GAME NOW..

angelncelestine

Implementing this system in trials is worse then how they did this with glass pages IMO. With glass even though it was a cruddy grind it was possible for EVERYONE to get them from writs. You didn’t have to try to form or join a 12 person group or have the skill to run hard content. You could be any type of ESO player, and get them. By implementing this grind and making it where you only get the fragments from the harder versions of the trial makes it very obvious why they did it. They know many people will not be able to farm for them or will grow tired of farming for them, and buy them from the crown store.

redspecter23

Nestor wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

Some people absolutely love RNG. It's why crown crates are a thing. You can mathematically tell someone that a radiant apex is 1 in 500 (or whatever it actually is) and some people will buy "just one more crate" for a chance at it. As much as some people hate RNG, just as many, if not more want it on some level, even if they think they don't.

I hate RNG if you were wondering. Dont even get me started on the travesty of crown crates. Set a price for an item and i will make the decision on whether buy it or not based on the price.

I agree completely, just throwing out a thought on why some people might prefer RNG. I'm positive ZOS had their math experts working out how rare they have to make these pages for them to be worth enough on the secondary market that buying the full motif from the store, even if you're paying gold for it as a gift, will be less money overall. Once they figure out that ratio, then we'll start to see more and more items hitting that "golden" rarity factor in order to push crown store sales. You can say what you want about the method here to attain the pages, but no matter how you slice it, it's a rather large grind overall and the store is just one click away.

Amyxleexownsxu

Yeah this seems to grindy to me. I suppose it seems normal amongst all the other huge grinds like jewelry but eh. I don't know if there's even a purpose for motifs anymore, unless your a collector. I have all my gear crafted in basic styles because my outfits will overwrite them anyways.

Nestor

Amyxleexownsxu wrote: »

I don't know if there's even a purpose for motifs anymore, unless your a collector. I have all my gear crafted in basic styles because my outfits will overwrite them anyways.

Motif knowledge is a big factor in getting Master Writs. But if your crafting focus is appearence, then only one character needs to know the motif.

I feel sorry for those who chase Master Writs on multiple characters

code65536

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

I'm not sure on this, some one correct me if I'm wrong, but your implying that once you get 10 fragments and bind them, you get a "Motif".
That's not how Glass worked, and don't think that's how this works.
It's 10 Fragments per motif "Page". With perfect RNG you will still need 140 fragments and 14 binding agents for a "Full" motif. And that's IF you don't go through say 40 fragments and get daggers on all 4 "Pages".
And what good is trading with others in Trials as it is "Fragments" dropping, not pages.
To all who thinks this is great and easy, please get back with us when you collect all them into a full motif and let us know how long it took.
For some of us with career jobs, time to grind 8 to 15 toons each day is not a option. It takes all my free game time to do Craft Writs,Quest Dailies, take care of Guild Business, respond to mails, etc.
Then the JC grind hit. Now this?? I have over 8.5k hours of great fun in ESO, but now it is not fun when it is just a grind to look forward to each log in.

TL:DR No this is not a good thing. No, you are not really beating the RNG gods. Please Zo$! Stop with the extreme grind you keep adding. Stop setting it up where the CS is the most important aspect of the GAME NOW..

Sigh. Yes, it's a random page. Yes, you might end up getting 14 daggers chapters. But how is that different than almost every other motif in the game? The only exceptions to this are the non-chaptered motifs and the ones that you buy from a vendor (Akaviri, Ordinator, Ebony, and now Glass).

With the old random-chance-at-from-coffers system, you have TWO LAYERS of RNG. One dice roll to see if you get anything at all. Another dice roll to see what chapters you get. The second layer--the randomness of the chapter--is always there.

Both you and @Nestor are missing the point by when you bring up that layer of RNG, because that's a layer of RNG that exists with virtually every other crafting style in the game.

Most motifs in the game almost have two layers of RNG--whether your reward coffer contains a chapter at all, and then uncertainty about what you get.

The old Glass fragment system also had two layers of RNG--a chance at a fragment, and then once combined, uncertainty about what you get.

Welkynar has just a single layer. The fragment count that you get is set in stone and deterministic. The only RNG is the uncertainty of what you get.

Also, @Nestor, you get one guaranteed fragment from doing nCR +3. And I know for a fact that you were able to clear nCR +3 when you were there during the playtest weekend. Yes, it's only just 1/10th of a random chapter. But, again, how is that any worse than the existing system, where you get something like a 10% chance out of a once-a-week coffer? At least you don't have that once-a-week limit to contend with like you do with Maw.

Integral1900

Shrugs...

Can’t afford to keep shovelling cash into the crown store

Don’t have the time or patience to do trials anymore (sorry but a build bottle neck full of angry people just isn’t fun)

Don’t have the gold to by this stuff when it hits the guild traders at god knows how much

Shrugs again...

Nothing we can do, and ZOS ain’t gonna listen, no mater how long you shout. The desicion has been made based on how much cash a tiny minority is willing to spend

No point getting stressed about something you can’t change

pod88kk

That's bloody ridiculous!!!!! Whomever thought of this really doesn't like the players.

Ohtimbar

This kind of thing is why I quit the motif game. My master crafter has the title, and now he can retire from the rat race and enjoy life.

jaws343

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

I'm not sure on this, some one correct me if I'm wrong, but your implying that once you get 10 fragments and bind them, you get a "Motif".
That's not how Glass worked, and don't think that's how this works.
It's 10 Fragments per motif "Page". With perfect RNG you will still need 140 fragments and 14 binding agents for a "Full" motif. And that's IF you don't go through say 40 fragments and get daggers on all 4 "Pages".
And what good is trading with others in Trials as it is "Fragments" dropping, not pages.
To all who thinks this is great and easy, please get back with us when you collect all them into a full motif and let us know how long it took.
For some of us with career jobs, time to grind 8 to 15 toons each day is not a option. It takes all my free game time to do Craft Writs,Quest Dailies, take care of Guild Business, respond to mails, etc.
Then the JC grind hit. Now this?? I have over 8.5k hours of great fun in ESO, but now it is not fun when it is just a grind to look forward to each log in.

TL:DR No this is not a good thing. No, you are not really beating the RNG gods. Please Zo$! Stop with the extreme grind you keep adding. Stop setting it up where the CS is the most important aspect of the GAME NOW..

The point about trading with others was for the Pages that you created. And even if the other people in your group don't have what you need or want to trade, use a guild trader. Put your duplicates up for sale and use the money to buy the ones you need. It is technically a direct trade.

You should only need to do vet +3 14 times to get the required number of fragments to craft 14 motif chapters. And assuming someone only runs a tank, healer, mag dps and stam dps, that is 4 coffers per week. So 4 weeks to get 14 binding stones to craft motifs if you are doing this the most efficient way on just 4 characters. The amount of players that will be doing this will make the RNG pretty non-existant.


Sure, not everyone can complete vet+3, but didn't everyone want more of an incentive to run difficult content? I remember when jewlery crafting was first announced people were upset that no-one would ever run vet trials again. And now when they add more incentive to do hard content people are complaining that they actually have to do something difficult to get something quicker in the game.

Nestor

If you want to incentivize trials, then dont use a crafting motif as a reward for that. That is like giving some won a swim race a pair of snow skis or a slalom racer a pair of speedos.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to incentivize trials, then dont use a crafting motif as a reward for that. That is like giving some won a swim race a pair of snow skis or a slalom racer a pair of speedos.

If they were actually incentivizing trials, I'd be all for it. But this isn't incentivizing for 2 reasons:

1) As you say, most trial runners don't care about motifs. You just add an extra pain point of them trying to find a buyer. Just give gold instead, or spell crit pots haha

2) Most players can't even do nCR +3, let alone vCR. The forums offer a very slanted view here because it is populated by the most dedicated players, many of whom are in trials guilds. If you aren't in a trials guild, you probably haven't completed nCR +3, nor will you ever.

Gating functional yet non-combat rewards behind content the majority of the playerbase cannot complete is a recipe for failure.

jaws343

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to incentivize trials, then dont use a crafting motif as a reward for that. That is like giving some won a swim race a pair of snow skis or a slalom racer a pair of speedos.

A reward is a reward. People apparently really want this crafting motif. Enough to complain about having to do hard content to get it. Seems like an incentive has been added to do trials. Learn how to do hard content, take the long way to getting it through normal +3, or buy it.

As others have said, at least this current method provides guaranteed drops and gives players a timetable to work off of. I've been farming chests in Vvardenfel for over a year now and still don't have a full Bouyant set. And I know that in a month orso after the release of Wolfhunter, I will have the full Welkynar motif.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

jaws343 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

I'm not sure on this, some one correct me if I'm wrong, but your implying that once you get 10 fragments and bind them, you get a "Motif".
That's not how Glass worked, and don't think that's how this works.
It's 10 Fragments per motif "Page". With perfect RNG you will still need 140 fragments and 14 binding agents for a "Full" motif. And that's IF you don't go through say 40 fragments and get daggers on all 4 "Pages".
And what good is trading with others in Trials as it is "Fragments" dropping, not pages.
To all who thinks this is great and easy, please get back with us when you collect all them into a full motif and let us know how long it took.
For some of us with career jobs, time to grind 8 to 15 toons each day is not a option. It takes all my free game time to do Craft Writs,Quest Dailies, take care of Guild Business, respond to mails, etc.
Then the JC grind hit. Now this?? I have over 8.5k hours of great fun in ESO, but now it is not fun when it is just a grind to look forward to each log in.

TL:DR No this is not a good thing. No, you are not really beating the RNG gods. Please Zo$! Stop with the extreme grind you keep adding. Stop setting it up where the CS is the most important aspect of the GAME NOW..

The point about trading with others was for the Pages that you created. And even if the other people in your group don't have what you need or want to trade, use a guild trader. Put your duplicates up for sale and use the money to buy the ones you need. It is technically a direct trade.

You should only need to do vet +3 14 times to get the required number of fragments to craft 14 motif chapters. And assuming someone only runs a tank, healer, mag dps and stam dps, that is 4 coffers per week. So 4 weeks to get 14 binding stones to craft motifs if you are doing this the most efficient way on just 4 characters. The amount of players that will be doing this will make the RNG pretty non-existant.


Sure, not everyone can complete vet+3, but didn't everyone want more of an incentive to run difficult content? I remember when jewlery crafting was first announced people were upset that no-one would ever run vet trials again. And now when they add more incentive to do hard content people are complaining that they actually have to do something difficult to get something quicker in the game.

That is saying that 1 fragment = 1 Motif page. Not same thing. If it is gonna be like Glass, you need 10 fragments for 1 Motif Page. Thats 140 Fragments, not 14.
Or am I missing something?

Note: It's not just about the grind. It's about Master Writs that are not craftable. It's about items being held from game in lieu of Crown Store. It's about making this Motif difficulty to be that most will have to just buy it. It's about the decisions and direction Zo$ is going in the last few months.
Just my 2 Drakes....

jaws343

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

However, you still get a chance to get an entire chapter from a normal trial.

@Nestor So what? How is a 10% CHANCE at getting a random full motif from a normal trial better than a guaranteed 1/10th fragment of a random motif? One is a gamble--you might get lucky and get that random motif on your first run or you might be like me and not get one until after a dozen runs. And the other is deterministic and fair.

I want ZOS to move away from their RNG nonsense. You seem to embrace it for some inexplicable reason.

I'm not sure on this, some one correct me if I'm wrong, but your implying that once you get 10 fragments and bind them, you get a "Motif".
That's not how Glass worked, and don't think that's how this works.
It's 10 Fragments per motif "Page". With perfect RNG you will still need 140 fragments and 14 binding agents for a "Full" motif. And that's IF you don't go through say 40 fragments and get daggers on all 4 "Pages".
And what good is trading with others in Trials as it is "Fragments" dropping, not pages.
To all who thinks this is great and easy, please get back with us when you collect all them into a full motif and let us know how long it took.
For some of us with career jobs, time to grind 8 to 15 toons each day is not a option. It takes all my free game time to do Craft Writs,Quest Dailies, take care of Guild Business, respond to mails, etc.
Then the JC grind hit. Now this?? I have over 8.5k hours of great fun in ESO, but now it is not fun when it is just a grind to look forward to each log in.

TL:DR No this is not a good thing. No, you are not really beating the RNG gods. Please Zo$! Stop with the extreme grind you keep adding. Stop setting it up where the CS is the most important aspect of the GAME NOW..

The point about trading with others was for the Pages that you created. And even if the other people in your group don't have what you need or want to trade, use a guild trader. Put your duplicates up for sale and use the money to buy the ones you need. It is technically a direct trade.

You should only need to do vet +3 14 times to get the required number of fragments to craft 14 motif chapters. And assuming someone only runs a tank, healer, mag dps and stam dps, that is 4 coffers per week. So 4 weeks to get 14 binding stones to craft motifs if you are doing this the most efficient way on just 4 characters. The amount of players that will be doing this will make the RNG pretty non-existant.


Sure, not everyone can complete vet+3, but didn't everyone want more of an incentive to run difficult content? I remember when jewlery crafting was first announced people were upset that no-one would ever run vet trials again. And now when they add more incentive to do hard content people are complaining that they actually have to do something difficult to get something quicker in the game.

That is saying that 1 fragment = 1 Motif page. Not same thing. If it is gonna be like Glass, you need 10 fragments for 1 Motif Page. Thats 140 Fragments, not 14.
Or am I missing something?

Note: It's not just about the grind. It's about Master Writs that are not craftable. It's about items being held from game in lieu of Crown Store. It's about making this Motif difficulty to be that most will have to just buy it. It's about the decisions and direction Zo$ is going in the last few months.
Just my 2 Drakes....

Vet +3 provides a guaranteed 10 fragments. So yes, doing vet+ is a guaranteed chapter if you have the Binding. so 14 vet+ 3 clears equals 140 fragments.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

There's only one answer to the question why did they set up the Welkynar motif like they did. It's so the 90% to 95% of us who want the motif will have to buy it in the crown store for 5k, no more like 6-7k. If it doesn't appear in the crown store on the day you can start grinding for it in trials, I'd be stunned. But it will show up with in a month or so after that. (First the fragments will show up in crown crate for a few months, then after that, they'll sell you whole pages for 1k crown each in the store. <yes I know I'm being very cynical about this, but would any of you be surprised if it happened exactly as I described)

code65536

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to incentivize trials, then dont use a crafting motif as a reward for that. That is like giving some won a swim race a pair of snow skis or a slalom racer a pair of speedos.

It's an incentive because it's an item that other people want, that other people cannot get as easily, and thus other people are willing to pay gold for. That's what an in-game economy is about, isn't it? You get things that I want, I get things that you want, and we trade. If I never got anything that you want, then what do I have with which to participate in the economy?

You are envisioning a game where everyone is self-sufficient, where everyone farms their own things and live in their own little bubble. But that's not how a MMO should work. It's good that ZOS is encouraging trade by locking rewards behind different content--it encourages people to either venture out of their comfort zones or engage in trade with people who do that kind of content.

So... why are people upset about this arrangement?

Is it because they see it as Glass 2.0? First, Glass never turned out to be the doom that people made it out to be. Yes, it was very expensive at first, but within a few months, prices had settled. By the time Glass fragments were eliminated, they had become virtually worthless. I still have about 700 unused fragments sitting around.

The problem with the Glass fragment system was that it was 2-layer RNG. There was a chance of getting a fragment, which you can then assemble for a random chapter. The second problem was the excessively high price of the binding agent--the resin. Things are different with Welkynar because it's just a single layer of RNG, and the binding agent is acquired differently and ostensibly free. (But there are other problems with the binding agent, which I had touched upon in this thread.)

Is it because it's gated behind content that not everyone does? As I addressed above, this isn't a problem. There are other cosmetic rewards like that. The other trials motifs. The dungeon motifs. The PvP motifs. At least this is tradeable, unlike the Battlegrounds styles, which are account-bound (I actually want the Fang Lair variant chest from BGs, since that has pouches strapped to the waist instead of books, which is what you see in the craftable dungeon version, and I recently started doing BGs even though I'm mostly a PvEer because of that.)

Is it because the drop rate is too low? That, I do agree with. I think having nCR +0/1/2 drop nothing is a bit punishing.

The following would be a more fair progression:

nCR +0/1/2: 1 fragment
nCR +3: 2 fragments
vCR +0: 4 fragments
vCR +1: 6 fragments
vCR +2: 8 fragments
vCR +4: 10 fragments

In any case, fixing that would just a matter of tweaking the numbers.

On the whole, though, I like the fragment system. It takes away a layer of RNG. The binding agent is a bit of a problem, and I'd prefer that either it be eliminated entirely or sold for a small nominal amount (not the ridiculous 10K that was used for Glass).

ItsNebula

L2P.

Welcome to an MMORPG, where killer farming is apart of the game!

ItsNebula

Koolio wrote: »

Harrdarrzarr wrote: »

don't be so difficult, there is no fun in having your motif complete is 1 week.

When a player who only goal is pvp it is. I don’t have the time to spend 1 year farming this motif

Ahhh I’m sorry, is ZOS supposed to make the game a little easier for you because you don’t have enough time to play? I’ll get you a pacifier.

I remember once a while ago back in Halo that I really wanted the Flaming Recon Helmet but I didn’t have the time to grind for it, so I went to the halo forums and cried that I didn’t have enough time in my schedule. Didn’t work out well.

Dagoth_Rac

Glass page fragments made sense in a way. They were acquired from the base game and from extremely easy content that takes 2 minutes per day to do. Why in the world would they make Welkynar such a ridiculous grind when it is difficult content and is behind a Chapter? You buy Chapters with cold, hard cash. This is so completely backwards. It is like buying the paid version of a game on your phone, except the paid version has more advertisements and more grind than the f2p version!

If you are going to make us pay cash every year for a Chapter, ZOS, make the content enjoyable. ZOS seem to be creating a brand new business model here: P2G = Pay-To-Grind.

And before someone says, "How is it fun if you have everything immediately?" There is plenty of middle ground between getting stuff "immediately" and the ridiculous, mind-numbing, relentless, no-life grinds that Jewelry Crafting and the Welkynar motif have introduced. And all this grind behind paid content that is not part of an ESO+ subscription and cannot be bought with crowns!

Why in the world are you treating your most dedicated and paying customers this way!?

lillybit

I think a lot of people are kinda missing the point. It's not that it's a horrible grind (which it is), it's that it's locked behind the hardest versions of the content with zero chance of being obtainable by anyone not in a dedicated trials guild.

I'm fine with skins and titles and fancy weapons being locked away there and would expect nothing less.

This is not only a crafting item however, but one required for master writs - and by extension the drop rate of master writs because that's dependent on knowing the styles that feature in them.

All of the other hard to get motifs have had a chance to get on normal. Not a good chance, but still a chance.

The difficulty of the content required combined with the horrible grind means that these chapters are never likely to be affordable in guild stores. Someone mentioned how crafters have lots of gold so can afford ridiculously priced motifs and that just isn't always true. I have a fully levelled crafter and very little gold because I exclusively craft for myself and guild mates. I don't charge and I don't sell mats so where does all this gold come from?

Someone else argued that these things shouldn't be obtainable by everyone because that's not how mmo's work. We aren't talking about mmo's in general tho, but eso specifically and that is how that has always worked! I can, and have, pvped for AP to buy motifs. I can do battlegrounds. I don't have to be good at either of these things to get what I want eventually. I can do normal DLC dungeons. I can do normal trials. There isn't any other single motif that I have no chance of getting because I'm not in the right guilds.

With this one they've even locked away the style mat behind the same hardest modes. It's this more than anything that leads me, and obviously a lot of others, to believe that the only reason for it is to force crown sales - of the motif itself and the crown mimic stones.

Oh and just for the record, I don't object to buying motifs from the crown store. I have in the past and probably will continue to when it's more convenient. I don't even object to crown store exclusive ones because they aren't required for any content in-game. It's the underhanded way it's been locked away from most of the people who will want it that bothers me.

Lorem123

lillybit wrote: »

With this one they've even locked away the style mat behind the same hardest modes. It's this more than anything that leads me, and obviously a lot of others, to believe that the only reason for it is to force crown sales - of the motif itself and the crown mimic stones.

Pretty sure you can get the style material from deconstruction as usual. Even with a bad drop rate from decon you'd probably be swimming in style materials before you even have a full page by just doing nCR +3, given you get 4 set pieces per run.