Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Erm... is it totally cool that DK Wings have no counter play for a mag NB?
mb10
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Every SINGLE skill projectile in the MagNB kit is reflectable for DKs...
Isnt that a bit ridiculous? How can you reflect a NB siphoning your health, that literally makes no sense at all as it is lol from a common sense stand point.
If you're a mag NB and you come up against a Mag DK, its not an disadvantage thing, its you have NO chance of even hitting the guy/girl if they spam wings which is exactly what they do.
Can ZOS use a LITTLE bit of logic when designing things as every skill in the game should have counter play
Ridiculous.
Isnt that a bit ridiculous? How can you reflect a NB siphoning your health, that literally makes no sense at all as it is lol from a common sense stand point.
If you're a mag NB and you come up against a Mag DK, its not an disadvantage thing, its you have NO chance of even hitting the guy/girl if they spam wings which is exactly what they do.
Can ZOS use a LITTLE bit of logic when designing things as every skill in the game should have counter play
Ridiculous.
11
-
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Every SINGLE skill projectile in the MagNB kit is reflectable for DKs...
Isnt that a bit ridiculous? How can you reflect a NB siphoning your health, that literally makes no sense at all as it is lol from a common sense stand point.
If you're a mag NB and you come up against a Mag DK, its not an disadvantage thing, its you have NO chance of even hitting the guy/girl if they spam wings which is exactly what they do.
Can ZOS use a LITTLE bit of logic when designing things as every skill in the game should have counter play
Ridiculous.
Like cloak has no counter for many builds that don't severaly hinder themselves when fighting against any other class just for the sake of being able to kill NBs.
Neither Cloak nor Wings are decently balanced but we will never see any changes because Zos likes their Kind of balance:
Run x and wreck y completely
But if you meet z well then you're SOL my friend.
There needs to be less hardcounters and more softcounters that give the better player an advantage while people who don't know how to play don't get a free pass against better players.Edited by BohnT on July 6, 2018 12:19AM34 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cloak and wait for the buff to fall, or pick a new target that can't counter your gank.Edited by Drakkdjinn on July 5, 2018 11:00PM7 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Run a lightning staff
Run force pulse as spammable
Run elemental blockade for pressure
These are my suggestions to you OP. They aren't much but they do help if you are having trouble vs. wings.
My magblade runs the lightning staff and elemental blockade. I keep my distance with cloak and just pop in and out with medium weaves.
No DK can keep wings up all of the time, so wait for them to drop before using reflectable skills. I also get in the habit of roll dodging when I shoot a spectral bow so I don't take the hit myself.
You could also go melee magblade and run concealed weapon but that's a different playstyle you might not be interested in.Edited by brandonv516 on July 5, 2018 11:31PM15 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭I’m not gonna lie what would be worse a magdk spamming wings or a magblade spamming cripple. (And yes there magblades who will spam cripple before the dot even hits 3 secs just for the ranged root)1
-
Gorilla✭✭✭Actually I find DKs one of the easiest class to fight as a Magblade. Sure they have roots, but a 2H build can deal with that. One definitely needs sustain tho...
Other than lag (the real OP), there are only 2 really outstanding things in PVP that I think need rework. One is Incap, and everyone knows it. But the other is the magsorc. I know I need to gitgud but those bouncing, shielded, rune cage casting SoBs are absolutely the Z for me.
Just my 2 cents, lol...
13 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
3 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Every SINGLE skill projectile in the MagNB kit is reflectable for DKs...
Isnt that a bit ridiculous? How can you reflect a NB siphoning your health, that literally makes no sense at all as it is lol from a common sense stand point.
If you're a mag NB and you come up against a Mag DK, its not an disadvantage thing, its you have NO chance of even hitting the guy/girl if they spam wings which is exactly what they do.
Can ZOS use a LITTLE bit of logic when designing things as every skill in the game should have counter play
Ridiculous.
Like cloak has no counter for many builds that don't severaly hinder themselves when fighting against any other class just for the sake of being able to kill NBs.
Neither Cloak nor Wings are decently balanced but we will never see any changes because Zos likes their Kind of balance:
Run x and wreck y completely
But if you meet z well then you're SOL my friend.
There needs to be less hardcounters and more softcounters that give the better player an advantage while people who don't know how to play don't get a free pass against better players.
No. Cloak is easily countered.
Pots, any aoe skill, the flare skill on support skill line and many many other ways.
DK wings has ZERO counter play for some builds0 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »''Waaaah, my cheese doesn't work''
Lmao so light/heavy and any skill on the whole skill bar is "cheese"
whats ironic is soul assault still works so keep flapping those wings boy, ill hit you from stealth the second you miss it and flame reach you then soul assault your ass onto these forums5 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »Cloak and wait for the buff to fall, or pick a new target that can't counter your gank.
@Drakkdjinn
erm not really a gank, if I was a ganker id be a stam NB and we all see what happens to Mag DKs when stam NBs gank them lmao0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Wings doesn't kill by itself. You have to attack someone who's using wings. Wings is not an active assault ability. Every.Single.Person. has access to abilities similar to wings (IE: Spell Wall, Defensive Stance, and Nikulas's armor).
And to quote: "DK wings has ZERO counter play for some builds." Seriously? So, you want your exact build to be nothing but cloaking and pew-pewing from a safe distance with absolutely no repercussions? This is just as bad as people complaining that their double bow gank build is easily countered. Diversify you build to have a few melee attacks. FFS.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren12 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭concealed weapon, crushing shock and soul harvest all go through wings, pretty sure impale does as well
Edited by IcyDeadPeople on July 6, 2018 1:25AM2 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't want to hear PvP complaints from ANY kind of NB thank you very much, unless there complaining about other nightblades or sorcs.ESO player since beta.
previously full time subscriber, beta-2024, now off and on, game got too disappointing.
PC NA
( ^_^ )
You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -XenogearsDK one trick9 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rock meets paper, paper meets scissors, scissors meets rock.
ESO PVP in a nutshell.
If we want to be able to fight paper as well as scissors, maybe switch up our build to include something other than rocks? Yes, this implies that we need to diversify our skills. All one-trick pony builds eventually meet their match in PVP, so either we have to accept that our one trick will eventually meet its counter or we have to learn more than one trick even if that means not being quite as good at our first trick.
Are you willing to change your nightblade build to counter possible magDKs spamming wings or are you wanting ZOS to change things so you don't have to change your build to counter possible MagDKs spamming wings?6 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »
Wings doesn't kill by itself. You have to attack someone who's using wings. Wings is not an active assault ability. Every.Single.Person. has access to abilities similar to wings (IE: Spell Wall, Defensive Stance, and Nikulas's armor).
And to quote: "DK wings has ZERO counter play for some builds." Seriously? So, you want your exact build to be nothing but cloaking and pew-pewing from a safe distance with absolutely no repercussions? This is just as bad as people complaining that their double bow gank build is easily countered. Diversify you build to have a few melee attacks. FFS.
@Savos_Saren
YEAH! lets all get into melee distance of the mag dk who has nothing but hard and soft ccs and flame damage!
Wings, ONE skill can be spammed and theres no point of the fight happening. You justify wings by saying diversify your attacks, well diversify your build to counter invis you hypocrite.
Use detec pots, revealing flare, magelight, aoe etc ...FFS.4 -
sly007✭✭✭✭To be honest, dk started slotting wings again because of the buff to ranged builds. Those light attacks and infused enchants are hitting hard, as well as the snipe and cloak nb running around.
I never had a need for wings on neither my stam or mag dk, but not it is a must. As for mag nb, you can always use force pulse if you want to stay ranged or concealed weapon for melee. Dk does not need a nerf to wings, just as nb does not need a nerf to cloak, or sorc to streak.5 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »
Wings doesn't kill by itself. You have to attack someone who's using wings. Wings is not an active assault ability. Every.Single.Person. has access to abilities similar to wings (IE: Spell Wall, Defensive Stance, and Nikulas's armor).
And to quote: "DK wings has ZERO counter play for some builds." Seriously? So, you want your exact build to be nothing but cloaking and pew-pewing from a safe distance with absolutely no repercussions? This is just as bad as people complaining that their double bow gank build is easily countered. Diversify you build to have a few melee attacks. FFS.
@Savos_Saren
YEAH! lets all get into melee distance of the mag dk who has nothing but hard and soft ccs and flame damage!
Wings, ONE skill can be spammed and theres no point of the fight happening. You justify wings by saying diversify your attacks, well diversify your build to counter invis you hypocrite.
Use detec pots, revealing flare, magelight, aoe etc ...FFS.
How have I said anything hypocritical? I didn't say anything about my build not having counters to NBs. You're just putting words into people's mouths. I have a "ranged bar" (destro staff) and a "melee" bar (SnB) on my mDK to counter various builds. The same goes for my mNB. I have a DW bar for melee attacks (Concealed Weapon, Soul Harvest, Lotus Fan, Impale, Mass Hysteria) and a Resto Staff for ranged attacks (Funnel Health, Crippling Grasp, Merciless Resolve, Meteor).
No one can help it that you've pigeon-holed your build so much that it sucks.
Edited by Savos_Saren on July 6, 2018 2:31AMWant to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren5 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Every SINGLE skill projectile in the MagNB kit is reflectable for DKs...
Isnt that a bit ridiculous? How can you reflect a NB siphoning your health, that literally makes no sense at all as it is lol from a common sense stand point.
If you're a mag NB and you come up against a Mag DK, its not an disadvantage thing, its you have NO chance of even hitting the guy/girl if they spam wings which is exactly what they do.
Can ZOS use a LITTLE bit of logic when designing things as every skill in the game should have counter play
Ridiculous.
Like cloak has no counter for many builds that don't severaly hinder themselves when fighting against any other class just for the sake of being able to kill NBs.
Neither Cloak nor Wings are decently balanced but we will never see any changes because Zos likes their Kind of balance:
Run x and wreck y completely
But if you meet z well then you're SOL my friend.
There needs to be less hardcounters and more softcounters that give the better player an advantage while people who don't know how to play don't get a free pass against better players.
No. Cloak is easily countered.
Pots, any aoe skill, the flare skill on support skill line and many many other ways.
DK wings has ZERO counter play for some builds
I'll just bold the part you should read again.
The reveal is a crappy ability if you are fighting any other class it is a wasted skill.
All single cast AoEs don't deal enough damage to out pressure a NB that cloaks also you can just go back into cloak until you either get away because they don't hit you anymore or you are back to full health again also it's not like every build uses an AoE to begin with.
Pots can be so easily countered by shade and give you a ridiculous high penalty for 45 seconds as you just decided to give up lots of sustain or good strong buffs just to have a chance killing the nb for 1/2 of the duration of your potion cooldown.
Also stop the trump speaking ***, there are not many, many other ways.
There's a limited amount and most of them aren't viable or heavily punish you for using them or are restricted to one class.6 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »
If you die to cloak though, you have more problems at hand than cloak.
If you die to streak though, you have more problems at hand than streak.
Etc.
Cloak doesn't hit you back, wings does. And DK by himself not staying at place either, but attacking too.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
3 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »
If you die to cloak though, you have more problems at hand than cloak.
If you die to streak though, you have more problems at hand than streak.
Etc.
Cloak doesn't hit you back, wings does. And DK by himself not staying at place either, but attacking too.
It's not like there is a huge visual cue telling you that if you attack him now he will reflect things back?
I know that doesn't help for some magnb builds, either you do what i do and accept that the magdk can't touch me if I'm playing clever and that i can't touch him or you keep spamming skills on the wings and eat them 1 second later.
It's your decision dieing because you want to kill everything or living and accepting that something can't be killed by you.
I'm not saying this is good game design and should stay like this but that's what it is atm1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree wings are a *** when playing magnb. But when a magdk casts wings, you can go on back bar and use resto weaves while reapplying your buffs/heals/shields and when your la count hits 4, cast fear and then burst the magdk while his wings are down. Its still a tedious way to go about it, but it is your best bet.5 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Every SINGLE skill projectile in the MagNB kit is reflectable for DKs...
Isnt that a bit ridiculous? How can you reflect a NB siphoning your health, that literally makes no sense at all as it is lol from a common sense stand point.
If you're a mag NB and you come up against a Mag DK, its not an disadvantage thing, its you have NO chance of even hitting the guy/girl if they spam wings which is exactly what they do.
Can ZOS use a LITTLE bit of logic when designing things as every skill in the game should have counter play
Ridiculous.
Like cloak has no counter for many builds that don't severaly hinder themselves when fighting against any other class just for the sake of being able to kill NBs.
Neither Cloak nor Wings are decently balanced but we will never see any changes because Zos likes their Kind of balance:
Run x and wreck y completely
But if you meet z well then you're SOL my friend.
There needs to be less hardcounters and more softcounters that give the better player an advantage while people who don't know how to play don't get a free pass against better players.
No. Cloak is easily countered.
Pots, any aoe skill, the flare skill on support skill line and many many other ways.
DK wings has ZERO counter play for some builds
This is so biased. So you want the other builds to slot skills to counter cloak but you cannot slot skills to counter wings?
What if I have only single target skills and I have no detect pots. This is my build. Is my build countered by cloak totally? Yes it is.
Now you have only reflectable projectiles. Yes your build is countered by wings but both of us can slot skills that could counter the skill.
Now comes the question, which defensive mechanic is better? My opinion is cloak. Do you know that every projectile even the ones that are not reflectable can be cloaked?Because I can!7 -
Still_Mind✭✭✭Stopped slotting wings a while ago on my DK. They're only efficient against potatoes, they burn your mana fast and can actually help your enemy in some situations (hello, Eclipse)."I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!"1 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭Every SINGLE skill projectile in the MagNB kit is reflectable for DKs...
Isnt that a bit ridiculous? How can you reflect a NB siphoning your health, that literally makes no sense at all as it is lol from a common sense stand point.
If you're a mag NB and you come up against a Mag DK, its not an disadvantage thing, its you have NO chance of even hitting the guy/girl if they spam wings which is exactly what they do.
Can ZOS use a LITTLE bit of logic when designing things as every skill in the game should have counter play
Ridiculous.
Like cloak has no counter for many builds that don't severaly hinder themselves when fighting against any other class just for the sake of being able to kill NBs.
Neither Cloak nor Wings are decently balanced but we will never see any changes because Zos likes their Kind of balance:
Run x and wreck y completely
But if you meet z well then you're SOL my friend.
There needs to be less hardcounters and more softcounters that give the better player an advantage while people who don't know how to play don't get a free pass against better players.
No. Cloak is easily countered.
Pots, any aoe skill, the flare skill on support skill line and many many other ways.
DK wings has ZERO counter play for some builds
Apart from pots which reduce my magic sustain, what countermeasures does a werewolf have vs cloak heavy-handed people?
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.2 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Resto staff and sap and several ground AoE helps too, no reflection there. It's not perfect, but definitely helps you stay alive better...Edited by Kelces on July 6, 2018 10:58AMYou reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!0
