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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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End the BiS Discrimination
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SocialAssassin✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »
BiS = Best in SlotSocialAssassin wrote: »So is someone going to tell me what BiS stands for? Or just ignore me like as to what you're complaining about.
Items, equipment which give the best possible result.
People tend to forget or oversee the "2nd" or "3rd" best items despite those being not far behind the BiS items. I blame the meta-people and a certain "guide-guy".
And thanks too
Edited by SocialAssassin on July 6, 2018 1:11AM“I’m The Best There Is At What I Do. But What I Do Isn't Very Nice…” - Wolverine/Logan/James Howlett0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭same story with my s&b/ice destro tank. Though i got it once, probably same as OP.
So if you saw just one toxic player, this is not the reason go to forum and complain about it, imo.
Thus isnt just once, this is a persisting attitude in the player base that needs to keep being addressed so long as it continues to exist. I am not just plainly complaining.CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why i stay clear of Dungeons my bosmer magicka builds would be dumped in seconds.. Its why ESO races are garbage and ruin this game..
Even the classes are so cookie cutter the fun is almost all gone..Racial passives are the only element of a build that can’t be changed after character creation. The fact that spreadsheet toting power gamers use that to boot people from groups is enough to warrant the removal of racial passives, imo.
The problem are not the racial passives. The problem are the players, and yu won't change that by removing racial passives. If you do that, they will find other ways to be total tools. (Like, we've seen quite a few "I've been kicked for low CP" threads where "low" was way over 160.)
Other things can be changed. CP, gear, skills, etc. No, people won’t ever stop being tools, but racial passives are the only thing that people cannot modify after character creation. Removing them would help by eliminating that element of the almighty meta. Any other aspect of a build can be adapted except that. They need to go because they’re too restrictive thanks to power gamer stupidity.
Racial passives are fine for single player games. They’re not good for multiplayer games - anything that might affect combat effectiveness in ESO that can’t be changed after character creation shouldn’t be a factor and should probably go.
Actually there is another thing people can't modify after character creation screen. Classes. Should we also get rid of those?
Yes we should and have all skills morph to Stamina and magicka..Darkstorne wrote: »And this rep for dungeon groups is precisely why, at almost 300CP, I still haven't tried running a single dungeon. I enjoy weird builds too much, hate the idea of playing builds that are "so hot right now", and threads like this make me cringe at the thought of bringing my MagWarden DPS or StamWarden healer, both wielding 2H main bar and bow back bar, into even a normal mode dungeon...
Same here, never ever run a dungeon and never ever will until the Races passives get removed.. My race appearance is far more important to me than gear...
And they wonder why dungeons are niche and no one wants to do them.Edited by DanteYoda on July 6, 2018 1:57AM1 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm pretty sure i was booted from my pug solely due to my Khajiit committing the crime of holding a staff, because there's no other logical reason i can think of other than the other DPS looking at me and going "oh great its a mag cat he can't do anything".
The PSA is classes can be played just fine on ANY Race, no matter the content. My Khajiit just so happens to hold several vet trial titles as a MagSorc as a testament to that. So please when you see a High Elf Stamblade or a Nord Magplar or a Khajiit Magsorc, just give them a chance and see what happens. No one wants to be thrown from the dungeon without a word.
Carried.0 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My Sorcerer tank was running a back bar 2her in vet pleadges the other day and I was on my Sorc healer
I never done vet pleadges faster and we just turbo dpsed down everything.0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure i was booted from my pug solely due to my Khajiit committing the crime of holding a staff, because there's no other logical reason i can think of other than the other DPS looking at me and going "oh great its a mag cat he can't do anything".
The PSA is classes can be played just fine on ANY Race, no matter the content. My Khajiit just so happens to hold several vet trial titles as a MagSorc as a testament to that. So please when you see a High Elf Stamblade or a Nord Magplar or a Khajiit Magsorc, just give them a chance and see what happens. No one wants to be thrown from the dungeon without a word.
Carried.
Uhuh yeah sure whatever you say.CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
dogman✭✭✭✭hey how about WE GET RID OF EVERY FACTOR OF AN MMORPG SO I CAN PLAY A DEADLY CAT MAGE???i'm just tryna have a good time2 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm pretty sure i was booted from my pug solely due to my Khajiit committing the crime of holding a staff, because there's no other logical reason i can think of other than the other DPS looking at me and going "oh great its a mag cat he can't do anything".
Honestly, if someone kicked you from a group for that, you were better off without them. "Oh no! A dungeon run might take a little longer!" The keyword is "might" because we can't be certain those guys even completed the dungeon without you
1 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure i was booted from my pug solely due to my Khajiit committing the crime of holding a staff, because there's no other logical reason i can think of other than the other DPS looking at me and going "oh great its a mag cat he can't do anything".
The PSA is classes can be played just fine on ANY Race, no matter the content. My Khajiit just so happens to hold several vet trial titles as a MagSorc as a testament to that. So please when you see a High Elf Stamblade or a Nord Magplar or a Khajiit Magsorc, just give them a chance and see what happens. No one wants to be thrown from the dungeon without a word.
I'm preparing a werewolf pve build 4 wolf hunter, and can't wait to test the reactions in a pug dungeon, on a small dummy the dps number seemed decent but they probably don't know that :-D
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
As i said I have probably run 1000 dungeons in ESO, mostly on Khajiit healers, never even got an comment on race, (outside the time we was 3 Khajiit)Why i stay clear of Dungeons my bosmer magicka builds would be dumped in seconds.. Its why ESO races are garbage and ruin this game..
Even the classes are so cookie cutter the fun is almost all gone..Racial passives are the only element of a build that can’t be changed after character creation. The fact that spreadsheet toting power gamers use that to boot people from groups is enough to warrant the removal of racial passives, imo.
The problem are not the racial passives. The problem are the players, and yu won't change that by removing racial passives. If you do that, they will find other ways to be total tools. (Like, we've seen quite a few "I've been kicked for low CP" threads where "low" was way over 160.)
Other things can be changed. CP, gear, skills, etc. No, people won’t ever stop being tools, but racial passives are the only thing that people cannot modify after character creation. Removing them would help by eliminating that element of the almighty meta. Any other aspect of a build can be adapted except that. They need to go because they’re too restrictive thanks to power gamer stupidity.
Racial passives are fine for single player games. They’re not good for multiplayer games - anything that might affect combat effectiveness in ESO that can’t be changed after character creation shouldn’t be a factor and should probably go.
Actually there is another thing people can't modify after character creation screen. Classes. Should we also get rid of those?
Yes we should and have all skills morph to Stamina and magicka..Darkstorne wrote: »And this rep for dungeon groups is precisely why, at almost 300CP, I still haven't tried running a single dungeon. I enjoy weird builds too much, hate the idea of playing builds that are "so hot right now", and threads like this make me cringe at the thought of bringing my MagWarden DPS or StamWarden healer, both wielding 2H main bar and bow back bar, into even a normal mode dungeon...
Same here, never ever run a dungeon and never ever will until the Races passives get removed.. My race appearance is far more important to me than gear...
And they wonder why dungeons are niche and no one wants to do them.
This includes times I member died because I stayed to much on desto staff or did not knew mechanic in dungeon.
On pc-eu other platforms might be different. That really matter is player skill, as its the difference between 5 and 30k dps.
Race is around 10% dps difference maximum. So its only an issue for high end raiding, can also be an issue to get into raid groups as its easier to reach 35k dps or that they demand.
Still the racial pasives are set up very badly, they was also set up back then we had soft caps.
Badly in that in Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion it was mostly an starting bonus in skill and abilities add a couple fixed bonuses as you level up most of this bonus was negated, it was easier to raise lower skills and it was capped at 100.
ESO works totally opposite all level 1 characters are the same regardless of race, as you level up you get racial bonuses.
Having racials as an starting bonus or perhaps bonus xp had been much better, especially the xp one could be very powerful, give bonus based on class and weapon skills but not affecting endgame, say bosmer get an bonus for bow kills and Khajiit for NB and DW skills.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm pretty sure i was booted from my pug solely due to my Khajiit committing the crime of holding a staff, because there's no other logical reason i can think of other than the other DPS looking at me and going "oh great its a mag cat he can't do anything".
The PSA is classes can be played just fine on ANY Race, no matter the content. My Khajiit just so happens to hold several vet trial titles as a MagSorc as a testament to that. So please when you see a High Elf Stamblade or a Nord Magplar or a Khajiit Magsorc, just give them a chance and see what happens. No one wants to be thrown from the dungeon without a word.
Racism is rampant this days
Technically, wouldn't it be "Speciesism"?
@DenMoria Yes, and no. Race-ism and Speciesism are the same, the way we use the word Race IRL is incorrect.
We should use the word Ethnicity, but afaik there is no -ism for that, so we just carry on using the words Race and Racism."The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **
*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***0 -
Jamdarius✭✭✭✭✭Can't count how many times I was kicked out of dung (normal run yes NORMAL random) for being NB healer...Which is funny cause after first 2-3 pulls I had bigger dps along + healing than other group members
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TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭The BiS Cult have many members, and their god is Meta. Their objective is to bring apocalypse to the game.
Then again, there's the other side of extremity: people who don't know how to build and does not bother learning.
If you're not one of these two sets of players, you're cool.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure i was booted from my pug solely due to my Khajiit committing the crime of holding a staff, because there's no other logical reason i can think of other than the other DPS looking at me and going "oh great its a mag cat he can't do anything".
The PSA is classes can be played just fine on ANY Race, no matter the content. My Khajiit just so happens to hold several vet trial titles as a MagSorc as a testament to that. So please when you see a High Elf Stamblade or a Nord Magplar or a Khajiit Magsorc, just give them a chance and see what happens. No one wants to be thrown from the dungeon without a word.
Racism is rampant this days
Technically, wouldn't it be "Speciesism"?
@DenMoria Yes, and no. Race-ism and Speciesism are the same, the way we use the word Race IRL is incorrect.
We should use the word Ethnicity, but afaik there is no -ism for that, so we just carry on using the words Race and Racism.
Ethnicism. Technically, it's mildly different from racism. But, in this case, since we're talking about fantasy racism, since the races are fictional. Ethnicism is things like prejudices against the Reachmen by Bretons, or prejudices between the Colovians and Nibonese. Racism is things like prejudices between the Nords and any elves, or prejudices by the High Elves against everyone.
Amusingly, "you're playing a Khajiit, you can't do magic," would be racist, even though it's not how we usually think of the term.0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I really wish they'd get rid of racial passives.
What they should do is change than all to flavour items. Nothing that can impact role ability.
They would then need to bake the current racial bonus’s that are best for certain roles into the armour for those roles. Then no one looses anything.
Only hard one is argonians potions. That’s insane and has no place in any competitive game.1 -
GarnetFire17✭✭✭✭I want to make a decent stamblade woodelf healer - ZOS get to work on making this possible. I doubt they will though, because they are charging 3000 crowns to change your race so what does that say?Edited by GarnetFire17 on July 6, 2018 10:04AM0
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »My Sorcerer tank was running a back bar 2her in vet pleadges the other day and I was on my Sorc healer
I never done vet pleadges faster and we just turbo dpsed down everything.
Sorc tanks are no joke. There's a lot of potential damage output from them, without sacrificing their ability to function as tanks. They suffer a little from not having the insane resource recovery of a DK, but they can get the job done.1 -
ResTandRespeC✭✭✭✭This entire argument based on someone guessing the motives of other people
. Could very well be any number of reasons. Some of them fair some of them not fair, and most of them that having nothing to do with you.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We need the move from Race passives into Birthsign system. It would allow so many people to choose their favorite race without changing much of the already existing system.
I mean, there is a fundamental difference to race selection in ESO compared to the single player games. In those, the primary influence of your race was on starting skills. Your skills would still cap at 100, but if you were a wood elf you'd start with more sneak and marksmanship, a redguard would start with a better understanding of heavy armor and maintaining their gear, ect. At the end, you really could make a nord magic user who would be every bit as good as a high elf or breton (though those two races both had bonus magicka, which was a bit of an oddity in the system overall.)
Originally, ESO worked like this. There were soft caps, and those applied indiscriminately of your race. So a Bosmer would get to the stam cap sooner than a Breton, but if you're building a stam build, everyone's going to reach that.
Those were removed when the Champion system was introduced, and after that, race choices became uncapped. Meaning your High Elf or Dunmer will never "catch up," to an Imperial's health.
Is this better? I'm honestly not sure. I am certain the community is very willing to declare those advantages as insurmountable, and pigeon hole every race into specific roles, even if the game doesn't really support that outlook.1 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Narvuntien wrote: »My Sorcerer tank was running a back bar 2her in vet pleadges the other day and I was on my Sorc healer
I never done vet pleadges faster and we just turbo dpsed down everything.
Sorc tanks are no joke. There's a lot of potential damage output from them, without sacrificing their ability to function as tanks. They suffer a little from not having the insane resource recovery of a DK, but they can get the job done.
Tanking Vet content with SorcTank here. You don't have any sustain issues, not even slightly. Casting "Balance" every 20 seconds and using Dark Deal whenever possible keeps my resources over 70%, the entire fight.0 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭I mean I would kick a healer too if they had a bow.
I do not understand the argument here. Vet content requires people to have at least half a brain and a somewhat functioning class set up and rotation. You cannot play this game how you want AND do all content* (*Provided playing the game how you want involves some weird, funky set up). If you want to do all content, you have to fit a mold, albeit not to a "T" but still to a certain degree.
That's just MMOs. If you want to be a Khajiit healer with a bow in non group content, go for it. But in Vet trial/DLC dungeon scenarios, get out of here with this "I should be able to do what I want".1 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggesy problem is the elitism in the game (wich is putting me off to play the time I used to). They expect everyone to preform the way they do with optimized builds and gear AND know all the tactics.
Guess what people: most new players womt learn the game if you go on and rush through normal dungeons in 5 minutes.
I have read posts where people actually stated that spending more the 15 minutes in a dungeon is a waste of time. If I would get paid per dungeon completion then yes, but this a game for crying out loud! Dont bother to play if you cant deal with other people that might not learn as quickly as you do!Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh1 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭The biggesy problem is the elitism in the game (wich is putting me off to play the time I used to). They expect everyone to preform the way they do with optimized builds and gear AND know all the tactics.
Guess what people: most new players womt learn the game if you go on and rush through normal dungeons in 5 minutes.
I have read posts where people actually stated that spending more the 15 minutes in a dungeon is a waste of time. If I would get paid per dungeon completion then yes, but this a game for crying out loud! Dont bother to play if you cant deal with other people that might not learn as quickly as you do!
I would like to think most people don't care if they aren't finished in 15 minutes. Sure, there will be some, but I think most people care more about just being able to beat it in a decent manor and thus not waste time.
Edited by Azyle1 on July 6, 2018 1:32PM1 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭Racial passives are the only element of a build that can’t be changed after character creation. The fact that spreadsheet toting power gamers use that to boot people from groups is enough to warrant the removal of racial passives, imo.
Those passives should not ever be factored into the “meta” or be considered “BiS”, the game isn’t balanced around those passives, but lo and behold, people latch onto them like they can actually make or break a build. It’s silly.
I say get rid of racial passives altogether. They’re such a minuscule part of a build and the only thing they seem to accomplish is fueling stupid ideas about funneling people into specific play styles in group play.
Quite frankly, racial passives do too much harm to the “play as you want” philosophy of the game because players just aren’t responsible enough to play nice with each other when dealing with an element of a build that is locked in after character creation.
Sounds like a people problem, not a game problem. ZOS can’t fix stupid.Edited by Odnoc on July 6, 2018 2:19PM0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean I would kick a healer too if they had a bow.
I do not understand the argument here. Vet content requires people to have at least half a brain and a somewhat functioning class set up and rotation. You cannot play this game how you want AND do all content* (*Provided playing the game how you want involves some weird, funky set up). If you want to do all content, you have to fit a mold, albeit not to a "T" but still to a certain degree.
That's just MMOs. If you want to be a Khajiit healer with a bow in non group content, go for it. But in Vet trial/DLC dungeon scenarios, get out of here with this "I should be able to do what I want".
Where'd you get this Khajiit Healer with a Bow idea?CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean I would kick a healer too if they had a bow.
I do not understand the argument here. Vet content requires people to have at least half a brain and a somewhat functioning class set up and rotation. You cannot play this game how you want AND do all content* (*Provided playing the game how you want involves some weird, funky set up). If you want to do all content, you have to fit a mold, albeit not to a "T" but still to a certain degree.
That's just MMOs. If you want to be a Khajiit healer with a bow in non group content, go for it. But in Vet trial/DLC dungeon scenarios, get out of here with this "I should be able to do what I want".
Where'd you get this Khajiit Healer with a Bow idea?
Post 3, page 1, of your thread.0 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Eh...it happens. You'll eventually get kicked for some reason or another in game. Race doesn't matter for your role...passives really don't matter end game either.
Just ask Mrs. Ghul about her Transvestite Orc Templar healer who has completed every Vet trail in game and hard mode dlc dungeon . Or maybe ask her about her tiny Wood Elf DK tank that has completed every vet trial and vet hardmode dlc dungeon.
Competent player will be competent players 1
